johnw47, I repeat healing is certain and sure through our faith in Christ. Now is God's good time.

2: The Lord Jesus never refused Paul what he died to give him. The thorn in flesh was persecution. 2 Cor 12:9_ "And he said to me my grace is sufficient for you: for my strength is made perfect in WEAKNESS( not in sickness and disease).

3: Not all of us have it because not all of us know it and believe it. All things is possible to he that believe. Absolute health is possible in this life for as the Head( Jesus) is so ought to be the body( Believers).

4: Maybe he had a failing eye sight due to the stoning he received but that was not "the thorn in the flesh."

5: He was gathering sticks and the snake was hiding in it. If you think otherwise, you will have to prove it.

Shalom

ScienceWatch:
Thank you for this well written OP. It is dripping with compassion for humanity. The Op pours out hope in our suffering unlike atheist threads that mockingly compound humanity's suffering.

The OP is very refreshing to my heart.

Brother, all thanks to our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

solite3:
I believe the thorn on Paul's flesh was not sickness but someone who persecuted paul because of the revelation he had in other to keep him humble.

But I agree with you that Paul's infirmities might be sickness

Brother apostle Paul infirmities were not sickness but weakness.

The American Heritage dictionary defines infirmity as lacking power, disability,bodily disability, frailty or moral weakness. Infirmity could either mean sickness or weakness.

See what Jesus said to Paul( 2 COR 12:9), And he said to me, my grace is sufficient for you: for my strength( not health) is made perfect in weakness( not sickness or disease). Every form of sickness is an affliction from the devil.

Jesus came in the flesh that he might destroy the works of the devil which "sickness" is one of them. Satan wants to keep us in ignorance that he might continue to afflict us with all manner of disease.

bloodofthelamb:


Brother apostle Paul infirmities were not sickness but weakness.

The American Heritage dictionary defines infirmity as lacking power, disability,bodily disability, frailty or moral weakness. Infirmity could either mean sickness or weakness.

See what Jesus said to Paul( 2 COR 12:9), And he said to me, my grace is sufficient for you: for my strength( not health) is made perfect in weakness( not sickness or disease). Every form of sickness is an affliction from the devil.

Jesus came in the flesh that he might destroy the works of the devil which "sickness" is one of them. Satan wants to keep us in ignorance that he might continue to afflict us with all manner of disease.

Humm you are right Satan would want us to be ignorant of his devices in order to afflict us.
But sometimes sickness might be as a result of Nature such as old age, wrong habits etc but it doesn't mean we shouldn't desire healing because healing is the children's bread.

Jesus healeth thee

bloodofthelamb:
johnw47, I repeat healing is certain and sure through our faith in Christ. Now is God's good time.

you cannot accept that there are saved christians that suffer from illness, ok

bloodofthelamb:
2: The Lord Jesus never refused Paul what he died to give him. The thorn in flesh was persecution. 2 Cor 12:9_ "And he said to me my grace is sufficient for you: for my strength is made perfect in WEAKNESS( not in sickness and disease).

3: Not all of us have it because not all of us know it and believe it. All things is possible to he that believe. Absolute health is possible in this life for as the Head( Jesus) is so ought to be the body( Believers).

4: Maybe he had a failing eye sight due to the stoning he received but that was not "the thorn in the flesh."

you are the one who keeps using the word "refused", paul did receive or will receive perfect health,
but Jesus didn't give it to him at that time when paul asked for the thorn to be removed,
try believing God's word instead of your own confusion

bloodofthelamb:
5: He was gathering sticks and the snake was hiding in it. If you think otherwise, you will have to prove it.

Shalom

and my original point was concerning pauls eyesight, that he was gathering sticks and he didn't see the viper

your arguing is very confused, you are not arguing for truth, but for your own version of it, and that you don't make mistakes, well read back through your posts, they contain mistakes confusion and false statments.

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

what did Christ bear in His body that we were healed of, it shows right there in the same verse, we are healed of our sins, our sins went to the cross with our Lord, we now live righteous in God's eyes

truly some, even many, of the saved are still physically ill, but they are healed-saved of their sins

all the saved will be completely healed eventually, in God's good time, which is not now for many.

johnw47:


you cannot accept that there are saved christians that suffer from illness, ok



you are the one who keeps using the word "refused", paul did receive or will receive perfect health,
but Jesus didn't give it to him at that time when paul asked for the thorn to be removed,
try believing God's word instead of your own confusion



and my original point was concerning pauls eyesight, that he was gathering sticks and he didn't see the viper

your arguing is very confused, you are not arguing for truth, but for your own version of it, and that you don't make mistakes, well read back through your posts, they contain mistakes confusion and false statments.

Is ok if you decide to believe that sickness is the will of God for you but not me. You can keep glorifyng God in sickness but me and my family will glorify Him in health.

Do you take drugs to recover when ill? If you do, don't you think you are going against the will of God?

johnw47:


you cannot accept that there are saved christians that suffer from illness, ok



you are the one who keeps using the word "refused", paul did receive or will receive perfect health,
but Jesus didn't give it to him at that time when paul asked for the thorn to be removed,
try believing God's word instead of your own confusion



and my original point was concerning pauls eyesight, that he was gathering sticks and he didn't see the viper

your arguing is very confused, you are not arguing for truth, but for your own version of it, and that you don't make mistakes, well read back through your posts, they contain mistakes confusion and false statments.

There is healing for all in Christ Jesus. Jesus was raised for all of humanity so that all who looked at him will be healed both from sin and it effects( sickness ).

It is unto us according to our faith. The healing power of God cannot work in you, if your heart is full of unbelief.

johnw47:


Jesus heals the saved completely, eventually,
and in the mean time He uses infirmities to teach us, to purify us, for spiritul growth

in pauls case, in that instance, the Lord didn't heal paul's infirmities, so that He could teach paul through them,
teach him not to be exalted from all his visions and revelations, for one thing,
and that others would not exalt him also, seeing his infirmities

You're deep. I'm edified reading your comments. More Grace to you in Jesus name.

bloodofthelamb:
johnw47, I repeat healing is certain and sure through our faith in Christ. Now is God's good time.

2: The Lord Jesus never refused Paul what he died to give him. The thorn in flesh was persecution. 2 Cor 12:9_ "And he said to me my grace is sufficient for you: for my strength is made perfect in WEAKNESS( not in sickness and disease).

3: Not all of us have it because not all of us know it and believe it. All things is possible to he that believe. Absolute health is possible in this life for as the Head( Jesus) is so ought to be the body( Believers).

4: Maybe he had a failing eye sight due to the stoning he received but that was not "the thorn in the flesh."

5: He was gathering sticks and the snake was hiding in it. If you think otherwise, you will have to prove it.

Shalom

You and John47 are both saying the same thing from different perspectives.
God heals all our infirmities, correct.
But according to His will.

johnw47:


you cannot accept that there are saved christians that suffer from illness, ok



you are the one who keeps using the word "refused", paul did receive or will receive perfect health,
but Jesus didn't give it to him at that time when paul asked for the thorn to be removed,
try believing God's word instead of your own confusion



and my original point was concerning pauls eyesight, that he was gathering sticks and he didn't see the viper

your arguing is very confused, you are not arguing for truth, but for your own version of it, and that you don't make mistakes, well read back through your posts, they contain mistakes confusion and false statments.

Please I urge and exhort us not to let our arguments resort to insult or anger. Let's try to focus on the understamding of the word according to the Holyspirit who giveth it life in us.
If you disagree with a brethren, just share your thoughts with each other and pray that the Holyspirit gives you both understanding.

Your arguments were both pointing in the same direction, just a little different.
May God continue to give us both His Wisdom and Understanding by the Holyspirit in Jesus name. Amen.

Grace and Peace be to us all.

pressplay411:


You and John47 are both saying the same thing from different perspectives.
God heals all our infirmities, correct.
But according to His will.

You are right but I want to add something. Jesus said to the woman with the issue of blood, "your faith has made you well(Luke 8:48)." It is always God's will to make us well all the time. We put God's will into motion in our lives and around us through our faith.

Note brother that Jesus did not say to the woman that my will has made you well. We need to fully know the heart of God. His heart is so precious towards us.

bloodofthelamb:


Is ok if you decide to believe that sickness is the will of God for you but not me. You can keep glorifyng God in sickness but me and my family will glorify Him in health.

Do you take drugs to recover when ill? If you do, don't you think you are going against the will of God?

you started out with a lack of understanding of the bible
now you are resorting to lies-false accusation

johnw47:

you started out with a lack of understanding of the bible now you are resorting to lies-false accusation

Ok!
Grace and peace bro.

bloodofthelamb:


You are right but I want to add something. Jesus said to the woman with the issue of blood, "your faith has made you well(Luke 8:48)." It is always God's will to make us well all the time. We put God's will into motion in our lives and around us through our faith.

Note brother that Jesus did not say to the woman that my will has made you well. We need to fully know the heart of God. His heart is so precious towards us.

Moses willed to see the face of God but God declined. Why?
Because no man can see His face and not die.

Paul's infirmities probably were there to humble him. Pride is very suble, it could creep into His ministry and he would be destroyed.

Paul was an extraordinary Jew and wealthy too before his conversion remember? And even though he was not among the 12, his ministry transcended theirs. He could easily become conceited and be destroyed ike some of his predecessors.

bloodofthelamb:


You are right but I want to add something. Jesus said to the woman with the issue of blood, "your faith has made you well(Luke 8:48)." It is always God's will to make us well all the time. We put God's will into motion in our lives and around us through our faith.

Note brother that Jesus did not say to the woman that my will has made you well. We need to fully know the heart of God. His heart is so precious towards us.

Jesus heals many people due to their belief-faith, but He does not immeditally heal everyone of faith

you bloodofthelamb say if a person is not healed it's because their faith is not strong enough

but Jesus did not heal paul when paul asked Him, and paul had more faith than most

paul endured more trials than most, he fought a good fight, he ran a good race, he finished the course, because he had much faith:

2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith

he kept the faith through it all, prison stoning etc.

It was Jesus will to withhold healing to paul, so that paul wouldn't be exalted, or exalt himself because of the revelations and visions he received, and through his infirmities he would receive even more power from Christ:

(2Co 12:6) For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

(2Co 12:7) And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

(2Co 12:8] For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

(2Co 12:9) And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

pressplay411:


Moses willed to see the face of God but God declined. Why?
Because no man can see His face and not die.

Paul's infirmities probably were there to humble him. Pride is very suble, it could creep into His ministry and he would be destroyed.

Paul was an extraordinary Jew and wealthy too before his conversion remember? And even though he was not among the 12, his ministry transcended theirs. He could easily become conceited and be destroyed ike some of his predecessors.

Bro, we cannot will what our God has not yet willed. The object of our faith is and should be on the will of God. We are on our own, if we put our faith on anything that is not the will of God. Nevertheless, I pray for more revelation on the subject of healing in the body of Christ. Amen.

I have ask you this before, do you take drugs when you are sick? If you do why?

Have ever considered that you are going against the will of Jesus who wants you diseased in other to keep you humble?

johnw47, I have ask you this before, do you take drugs when you are sick? If you do why?

Have ever considered that you are going against the will of Jesus who wants you diseased in other to keep you humble?

bloodofthelamb:


There is healing for all in Christ Jesus. Jesus was raised for all of humanity so that all who looked at him will be healed both from sin and it effects( sickness ).

It is unto us according to our faith. The healing power of God cannot work in you, if your heart is full of unbelief.

while that is so, according to bloodofthelamb The healing power of God could not work in paul, because his heart was full of unbelief

perhaps you should study the bible a lot more before you start preaching
much of what you say is from your head AND NOT FROM THE BIBLE

bloodofthelamb:
I have ask you this before, do you take drugs when you are sick? If you do why?

Have ever considered that you are going against the will of Jesus who wants you diseased in other to keep you humble?

in saying that you neither know Jesus or the scriptures, Jesus does not want anyone diseased in other to keep them humble,
satan and sin cause disease, and God can and does use disease for our furthergrowth

johnw47:


while that is so, according to bloodofthelamb The healing power of God could not work in paul, because his heart was full of unbelief

perhaps you should study the bible a lot more before you start preaching
much of what you say is from your head AND NOT FROM THE BIBLE

This is last time I will say this. Apostle Paul "thorn in the flesh" was not a sickness but a messenger of Satan causing trouble for him everywhere he goes.

bloodofthelamb:


This is last time I will say this. Apostle Paul "thorn in the flesh" was not a sickness but a messenger of Satan causing trouble for him everywhere he goes.

my post to you was concerning your comment that healing cannot work in people with unbelief
and i replied that paul didn't have unbelief yet he wasn't healed when he asked

and here you go changing the subject once again, and that's because you have no replies to most of my posts,
no true replies that is, lies have crept in though

johnw47:


in saying that you neither know Jesus or the scriptures, Jesus does not want anyone diseased in other to keep them humble,
satan and sin cause disease, and God can and does use disease for our furthergrowth

I see God use disease to grow you but not me. My growth comes through me abiding in Him. Humility and meekness is part of the fruit of the Spirit in me.

I am meek through the presence of the Holy Ghost in my life. I done going back and forth with you.

I pray in due time you will understand. Peace

bloodofthelamb:


I see God use disease to grow you

i never said that God uses disease to grow me, but you continue to lie

bloodofthelamb:
but not me. My growth comes through me abiding in Him.

so you think those with illness that God uses for their good, don't abide in Him,
you can say you abide in God, but with false accusing, lying etc., you are fooling yourself

bloodofthelamb:
Humility and meekness is part of the fruit of the Spirit in me.

I am meek through the presence of the Holy Ghost in my life. I done going back and forth with you.

one of the reasons paul's thorn was not removed was so as he didn't become puffed up as you are
the fact that Jesus hasn't improved you through infirmities, shows

bloodofthelamb:
I pray in due time you will understand. Peace

again, lies, oh puffed up one

Your Father does not humble with sickness.

bloodofthelamb:
Your Father does not humble with sickness.

my Father doesn't cause sickness, He can use our infirmities for our own good, confused one

bloodofthelamb:


This is last time I will say this. Apostle Paul "thorn in the flesh" was not a sickness but a messenger of Satan causing trouble for him everywhere he goes.

the thorn in pauls flesh was the messenger(aggelos) of satan, a fallen angel, a evill spirit, paul was given a evil spirit
that was the thorn in pauls flesh


the messenger
G32

ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.
Total KJV occurrences: 186



the thorn in pauls flesh, the evil spirit, caused paul infirmities(astheneia)
such as being imprisoned, being stoned, being persecuted ill health etc. etc.
it was probably mainly a ill health problem caused by the bad spirit that paul was most concerned about,
perhaps failing eye sight, infirmities(astheneia) means mainly ill health:

infirmities
G769

ἀσθένεια
astheneia
as-then'-i-ah
From G772; feebleness (of body or mind); by implication malady; moral frailty: - disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.
Total KJV occurrences: 24




(2Co 12:6) For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

(2Co 12:7) And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger(aggelos) of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

(2Co 12:8] For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

(2Co 12:9) And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities(astheneia), that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

(2Co 12:10) Therefore I take pleasure in "infirmities", in reproaches, in necessities, in "persecutions", in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

^^^ paul says "infirmities" seperately to "persecutions" there,
paul took pleasure in his illnesses, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distress

Jesus never refused anyone healing in his days on earth. He won't refuse you today, if you look unto him with faith.

bloodofthelamb:
Jesus never refused anyone healing in his days on earth. He won't refuse you today, if you look unto him with faith.

what about Jesus days in heaven, paul asked Jesus for healing, and Jesus didn't give it to him, but said My grace is sufficient for you,
paul had more faith than most

is Jesus a different person in Heaven than He was on earth
bloodofthelamb twisting things around is deceiving, dishonest and it the same as lying


Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

bloodofthelamb:
Jesus never refused anyone healing in his days on earth. He won't refuse you today, if you look unto him with faith.

paul asked for healing and didn't receive it, Jesus said my grace is sufficient for you
you bloodofthelamb repeat your lies over and over again

Pro 19:9 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.