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Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd - Politics (3) - Nairaland

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Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by SEFAGO(m): 4:18pm On Jun 18, 2010
This was one of the interesting reports I read on the Niger Delta:

http://hdr.undp.org/en/reports/nationalreports/africa/nigeria/nigeria_hdr_report.pdf

Its a bit dated though
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Nobody: 4:19pm On Jun 18, 2010
oyb:

i have to thank kobojunkie for pointing out what i should have realised - this loser has absolutely nothing to offer in intellectual debate.

he has no answers to any of t serious questions, so he has to resort to diverting the topic by repeating his absurd posts

pele i understand that years of copping aboki manliness can do that to a person. ndo. ego better. up mend. more car bombs to your elbow, more kidnaps to your coffers and more oil spills for our bunkering.

i'm out. your idiocy might be catching


feel free to insult my parents again, inset another gif and declare victory  
beaf is intelligent just that he gets too emotional sometimes.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Kobojunkie: 4:38pm On Jun 18, 2010
Agenda Two: Make local governance effective and responsive to the needs of the people. Governance is very central to achieving NIGER DELTA HUMAN DEVELOPMENT REPORT iii meaningful development outcomes. The effectiveness of governance, especially at the local government level, is an issue of serious concern. At the core of promoting effective governance is the urgent need to institutionalize the practices of accountability, transparency and integrity to guide the flow of development resources at all levels.

This is the aspect I believe that is missing and continues to hinder progress in the region.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/reports/nationalreports/africa/nigeria/nigeria_hdr_report.pdf
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by ono(m): 5:58pm On Jun 18, 2010
@Beaf.

Well done brother - for holding the fort. That I do not frequent this site again does not mean the issues staring us in the face in the ND cannot be discussed anymore. It's interesting how the ND issues keeps popping up again and again on NL. Every bit of what you stated in here (which are in every sense statements of facts) have been discussed years back - back in the days myself, Owo and other true sons of the ND ''roam'' NL to get our voice heard. I'm not going extinct sha - like the dinos  grin. Keep that flag flying.

They (other Nigerians) cannot see any sense in the fact that the present arrangement in the country does not favour the well being and development of the average Niger Deltan. What have the ND benefitted (compared to what we now see elsewhere in Abuja that was a savannah grassland 20 years ago) from the present parasitic arrangement since Oloibiri-1 was drilled, completed and hooked up for production in 1958? Is it the peanuts doled out to very hungry and famished people that they're arguing about?
They talk ill of the ''leaders'' in our areas. Why can't they take away the log in their eyes first before pointing at the other person's ailment? Aren't their leaders the masterminds of stealing, corruption, nepotism, tribalism and all the ills that's going to bring this country to its knees?

I'm tired jare. I will just repeat all I've said in the past. No sense wasting precious time and energy now. That time will come when we will all look at these issues - cos I know that every right thinking person knows what's good and right for us to do to move on in peace, and address them.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Kobojunkie: 6:01pm On Jun 18, 2010
ono:

They (other Nigerians) cannot see any sense in the fact that the present arrangement in the country does not favour the well being and development of the average Niger Deltan.
How did you figure that to be the case, oh genius?
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Beaf: 6:41pm On Jun 18, 2010
ono:

@Beaf.

Well done brother - for holding the fort. That I do not frequent this site again does not mean the issues staring us in the face in the ND cannot be discussed anymore. It's interesting how the ND issues keeps popping up again and again on NL. Every bit of what you stated in here (which are in every sense statements of facts) have been discussed years back - back in the days myself, Owo and other true sons of the ND ''roam'' NL to get our voice heard. I'm not going extinct sha - like the dinos grin. Keep that flag flying.

They (other Nigerians) cannot see any sense in the fact that the present arrangement in the country does not favour the well being and development of the average Niger Deltan. What have the ND benefitted (compared to what we now see elsewhere in Abuja that was a savannah grassland 20 years ago) from the present parasitic arrangement since Oloibiri-1 was drilled, completed and hooked up for production in 1958? Is it the peanuts doled out to very hungry and famished people that they're arguing about?
They talk ill of the ''leaders'' in our areas. Why can't they take away the log in their eyes first before pointing at the other person's ailment? Aren't their leaders the masterminds of stealing, corruption, nepotism, tribalism and all the ills that's going to bring this country to its kneels?

I'm tired jare. I will just repeat all I've said in the past. No sense wasting precious time and energy now. That time will come when we will all look at these issues - cos I know that every right thinking person knows what's good and right for us to do to move on in peace, and address them.

Thank you! But, my broda, wetin man go do? You guy's showed how to put up stellar arguments.

Yes, we have the same discussions over and over as you've pointed out. There's a new vulture party every now and again and its always the same old faces that show up, some of them brimming with hatred (why, is difficult to fathom). It is energy sapping but we have to stick with it.

Its funny to the point of being ridiculous, the way "they talk ill of the ''leaders'' in our areas". You would think that they had incredible leaders, only to look and see all 36 states headed to Abuja, begging bowl in hand. . .
You would expect these brave folk to pluck up the courage of 7 devils, swallow their own medicine, walk up to their leaders and demand to know why on Gods Earth they are parasites. But do they? No, they find it easy to dump on the very minorities on whom the corporate existence of the nation depends; just because we are minorities. How brave!

Please pass by more often, there's always a gem or two in your words.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Kobojunkie: 8:00pm On Jun 18, 2010
[size=13pt]Make local governance effective and responsive to the needs of the people[/size]


[size=13pt]The effectiveness of governance, especially at the local government level, is an issue warranting concern. For both state and local governments, accountability, transparency and integrity have not necessarily kept up with the increased flow of resources in the delta. Politicians and local officials flaunting ill-gotten gains in fact help to fuel conflicts.

Bad local governance is also a major cause of endemic poverty and the poor quality of human development. Local development depends on committed and effective local governments capable of providing infrastructure and services that meet local needs. Public policies and mechanisms should ensure that good governance principles are upheld, especially in state and sub-national interactions. Since they are close to the people, local governments are in the best position to involve everyone, especially poor and marginalized people, in planning, implementing and monitoring development activities. The worsening poverty in the Niger Delta and the limited involvement of the poor in poverty interventions go hand in hand, and require urgent actions by governments at all levels. Priority strategies should include the following.

. Local governments should enhance their capacity to conceive and implement policies that deliver development to their constituents.

. Local communication systems should be institutionalized to provide information about local development activities and resources. The local monitoring of public funds should be encouraged. Non-governmental organizations (NGOs) and civil society groups could model the process of questioning people in authority and holding them accountable without fear or favour.

. State and local governments need frameworks to cooperate on development, and local governments should receive their due allocations from the Federation Account and also from the states in line with extant laws.

. Democratic decentralization should devolve decision-making to communities. This will encourage the participation of civil society organizations in the management of local development.[/size]
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by SapeleGuy: 10:28pm On Jun 18, 2010
^^^ These would be good points in a thread about local government accountability.

We can not deny that Nigeria as a nation is intransigent to the suffering and ra.pe of the Niger Delta. You only need to look at the way the FG continually postpones the gas flaring deadlines or the way that the Bakassi area was surrendered without a fight.

Yes, there are compromised legislators and collaborators from the Niger Delta but does that exonerate the FG from this continued act of wickedness?
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Kobojunkie: 10:35pm On Jun 18, 2010
SapeleGuy:

Yes, there are compromised legislators and collaborators from the Niger Delta but does that exonerate the FG from this continued act of wickedness?

Not  A SINGLE SOUL has argued that ought to be the case. In fact what I have done myself has been to point out that these acts of wickedness have not been perpetrated only by the federal government but also by local government officials, as well as people(kings, chiefs etc) that have themselves benefited from the disaster over time. And so there is a serious need to CLEAN UP on the local levels before we can expect lasting changes to the situation.

Please take time to read the article posted by @SEFAGO to better understand why it is likely that no solution will be reached until the LOCAL GOVERNMENTS are PUT IN CHECk and since we are NOW in a, guess what, DEMOCRACY, it is NOT the place of the FEDERAL Government to now come in to DECIDE FOR THE PEOPLE how their state ought to be run and what nots. It is,unfortunately , the people's job to deal with that issue.  No matter what view anyone holds of these, they are still considered elected leaders - elected by the people.

Please read it!
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Beaf: 10:43pm On Jun 18, 2010
^
The article Sefago posted is arguing about restructing Nigerian govt dufus!
ND people have always asked for true federalism.

Give us control of the oil feilds, its so simple. Let others control their yams, onions, vegetables or gold.
Nigeria needs the ND, but the ND can do without Nigeria, thank you.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Kobojunkie: 10:46pm On Jun 18, 2010
roflmao!!!! ;d :d ;d :d ;d
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by SapeleGuy: 10:57pm On Jun 18, 2010
Kobojunkie- I have read it and the phrase 'talking loud and saying nothing' springs to mind.

Issues such as gas flaring and environmental degredation are national / international issues. The statutory and legislative framework which govern the petroleum industry are national policy instruments, the enforcement of these laws are also national. Please quote the law or the part of the constitution that confers power on our local government to enforce petroleum laws. In so doing please refer to the Land Use Act.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Kobojunkie: 11:22pm On Jun 18, 2010
SapeleGuy:

Kobojunkie- I have read it and the phrase 'talking loud and saying nothing' springs to mind.

Issues such as gas flaring and environmental degredation are national / international issues. The statutory and legislative framework which govern the petroleum industry are national policy instruments, the enforcement of these laws are also national. Please quote the law or the part of the constitution that confers power on our local government to enforce petroleum laws. In so doing please refer to the Land Use Act.

Do you mind quoting the law or the part of the constitution that RESTRICTS states or local governments from acting to enforce environmental laws enacted, even at the federal level?
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by SapeleGuy: 12:00am On Jun 19, 2010
Leaders need to lead. Obama stood up to be counted and made BP cough up. What is stopping our leaders from doing the same?

Our people have continually campaigned against gas flaring, every year our FG postpones the date by which oil companies should comply.

Shell were fined $1.6 billion in 2006 for environmental damage, they haven't paid yet.  How can local government enforce this judgement?
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Beaf: 12:11am On Jun 19, 2010
^
Its not just that. How can anybody enforce laws on land and waters they have no access to? There are soldiers always present to shoot trespassers and it has always been so, in fact the oil companies arm, equip and pay our soldiers to do their bidding. What is a local govt going to do in the face of such? kobojunkie is a joke.

Maybe kobojunkie can give us a clue on how to enforce laws on land that isn't yours without being forcefully kicked out or in the ND cases, much worse.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Kobojunkie: 12:27am On Jun 19, 2010
SapeleGuy:

Leaders need to lead. Obama stood up to be counted and made BP cough up. What is stopping our leaders from doing the same?
uum . . . What has stopped our LEADERS ( at both the local and national levels from doing the same in the past)? You and I know the answer to that and the fact this problem is NOT UNIQUE to the ND zones.

I still find I need to stress that what happened in America is seen to have gone national almost immediately because the government at the state and local levels ensure it became so and continue to pressure on the white house to do something. Matter of fact, the 20 billion total that Obama caused BP to agree to did not really come from the Obama administration, it came from cooperation from state and local governments.

I continue to feel I need to inject this into this discussion over and over because there is still that need to blame it all on the FG without pointing out that it is a COMBINATION of failures both at the local/state, and federal levels and not just the one over the other. This situation is, again, NOT UNIQUE to ND zones, as the same factor applies in other states and cases in that country.

SapeleGuy:

Our people have continually campaigned against gas flaring, every year our FG postpones the date by which oil companies should comply.
May I ask if you have considered the reason for the postponement so far?
SapeleGuy:

Shell were fined $1.6 billion in 2006 for environmental damage, they haven't paid yet.  How can local government enforce this judgement?
Are you suggesting that the only way that the local governments can act is if this particular fine was paid out by Shell? The case is in the courts and will likely be there for a while. Just want to know if it is the case that we are waiting on this particular bounty, to get our acts together in the ND?
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by SapeleGuy: 9:36am On Jun 19, 2010
Kobojunkie, the heinous behaviour of our politicians may not be unique to Niger Delta but the situation, the suffering, the environmental damage to an ecosystem that is one of the most diverse in the world is unique to Niger Delta. Ultimately these acts of wickedness just need to stop regardless of who is causing them.

Earlier, I referred you to the Land Use Act you can add to that the Oil Pipelines Act, read these first before you start pointing the finger.
http://www.eraction.org/
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Kobojunkie: 4:27pm On Jun 19, 2010
SapeleGuy:

Earlier, I referred you to the Land Use Act you can add to that the Oil Pipelines Act, read these first before you start pointing the finger.
http://www.eraction.org/
What portion/section of the land use act are you referring to here? What exactly is your argument with this? In order to understand your argument here, at least answer some of my questions as I really do not have a clear idea where you are going with this.
I have to this point stated that the responsibility lies both on local and national governments to sort the issues out. I also made myself clear on the fact that the local government cannot continue to fold it's arms and defer all blame to the National, even after receiving millions in funds from the same oil companies to help with rehabilitation of many of the communities we speak of.
According to the Nigeria Delta Development Commission, Shell alone contributed over $158.2 million required of them. How was that money spent? How did that money impact the lives of people in these areas? What happened to millions from other oil companies in the areas over the last, say 10 years? How has the government continued to spend this money on that to this point, the state of the people remain desperate?
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by netotse(m): 4:34pm On Jun 19, 2010
hey people,

we have some of the most passionate posters on NL on this thread, isn't there a way we could ignore our differences for a second and consider how we can move naija forward, in this case by dealing with the oil spill issues?

if the crooked politicians aren't going to do it, it's left to us, and if we spend all our time insulting each other(parents inclusive too) just when will nigeria improve? cause no single tribe/group has what it takes to move nigeria forward

@beaf
must you always be so abrasive? you're starting to seem like one of those people that feel they haven't achieved anything until they have traded insults.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Kobojunkie: 8:13pm On Jun 19, 2010
netotse:

we have some of the most passionate posters on NL on this thread, isn't there a way we could ignore our differences for a second and consider how we can move naija forward, in this case by dealing with the oil spill issues?
if the crooked politicians aren't going to do it, it's left to us, and if we spend all our time insulting each other(parents inclusive too) just when will nigeria improve? cause no single tribe/group has what it takes to move nigeria forward

The problem with the majority of Nigerians out there, both at home and abroad is they are unable to disconnect from whatever tribal issues they carry to actually understand the ramifications of our continued inaction as a people and a nation.
The Oil situation exists mainly because of great ineptitude at the local level, and secondly at the federal levels. Not until we get our acts together at the local level can we take the fight to the federal. What I see happening most 90% of the time is we try to fight the battles from the top of the mountain rather than start at the base of the mountain and then move up. And we continue to wonder why, year after year, president after president, it almost seems we are not moving forward. Same problems continue and same ridiculous arguments offered with no results.
In my opinion, not until the educated and enlightened (when I say enlightened, I refer mostly to those who have been out to the west, who have seen the way things can be) are able to put aside their differences, be it religious, ethnical or sexual, and put heads together to take back power, things are likely to continue.

3 years ago, I sat reading comments from seemingly intelligent people on here preaching of how Yar adua was going to save Nigeria, and how those of us who saw his record in Katsina as signs of what is to come were EVIL AND ANTI-NIGERIA . . . Yes, I remember I was labelled ANTI-NIGERIAN and EVIL for pointing out that his record betrayed that belief. This year, Jonathan became the messiah. I really don't think my heart can take comments preaching IBB as saviour/president next year.

WEEEEPSSSS
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by EzeUche(m): 6:36pm On Jun 20, 2010
Kobojunkie you are definitely a FOOL. A big fool!

Beaf and others who pointed out the errors of her ways, do not waste your time.

I am tired that my region is continuing to be plundered while our environment is being degraded. I support MEND and any other group that will battle the FG. It doesn't matter if you are from Ondo State to Abia State. Our land is being destroyed by these cockroaches!

Of course some of the posters whose land is being polluted will be passionate. Screw any Nigerian not from the Niger Delta. You cannot relate to us.

And when I say Niger Deltan, I am talking about Yorubas from Ondo State, people of Edo, Abia, Imo, Bayelsa, Rivers etc. You know who you are.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Gayigaskia(m): 6:40pm On Jun 20, 2010
Of course the difference here is the fact that those companies (bp, shell, chevron, ) are in partnership with the federal republic of Nigeria whereas in the US , the federal government don't have any direct stake in those business antities. Still i don't think that justifies the non cleaning of the oil leaks. Also i don't think there was a spill larger than the one going on in the golf of Mexico because if it has been happening in the Niger Delta it would have affected many neighboring countries.
What is happening in the Niger delta is mass corruption between traditional rulers/politicians in the region and the oil companies on the watchful eyes of the locals.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by EzeUche(m): 6:42pm On Jun 20, 2010
^^^^^

You blame the locals yet the FG has the JTF going after innocent people of the region who are fighting for control of their own resources!

I don't see why a person whose village lies on top of oil has to share the wealth with people who do not give a dammmn about them.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Gayigaskia(m): 6:58pm On Jun 20, 2010
I'am not blaming the locals only , i'am blaming the whole system . beside if there was no JTF in that area more locals would have suffer, more Iboris will prevail.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Youngichou(m): 7:04pm On Jun 20, 2010
Rubbish! I dont expect you guys replying to this post. Leave this americans alone
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by Youngichou(m): 7:05pm On Jun 20, 2010
Rubbish! I dont expect you guys replying to this post. Leave this americans alone
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by texazzpete(m): 7:06pm On Jun 20, 2010
EzeUche:

Kobojunkie you are definitely a FOOL. A big fool!

Beaf and others who pointed out the errors of her ways, do not waste your time.

I am tired that my region is continuing to be plundered while our environment is being degraded. I support MEND and any other group that will battle the FG. It doesn't matter if you are from Ondo State to Abia State. Our land is being destroyed by these cockroaches!

Of course some of the posters whose land is being polluted will be passionate. Screw any Nigerian not from the Niger Delta. You cannot relate to us.

And when I say Niger Deltan, I am talking about Yorubas from Ondo State, people of Edo, Abia, Imo, Bayelsa, Rivers etc. You know who you are.

Except that the likes of MEND are a major reason why the Niger Delta is this polluted today. Illegal bunkering and pipeline vandalisation from groups affiliated to and protected by MEND have spilled millions of gallons of crude in the creeks and waters of the Niger Delta. Incessant bunkering by Ogoni youths have caused massive spills and wellhead leaks in the past couple of years.
Unless the environment and the fish can distinguish between the oil from the Oil companies' decaying equipment and the oil spills from these 'freedom fighters', the blame must be shared!
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by EzeUche(m): 7:20pm On Jun 20, 2010
Let the truth be told, this region was better when it was one region with the SE, not this South-South.

Dr. Michael Okpara would be turning in his grace if he seen how are region is now.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by SapeleGuy: 7:27pm On Jun 20, 2010
Gayigaskia:

.[s] beside if there was no JTF in that area more locals would have suffer[/s]

Don't pretend that JTF are protecting the interests of Niger Deltans. We all know different.
Anyway, if JTF is a good thing then may they reign over your people for at least 1000 years.


texazzpete:

Except that the likes of MEND are a major reason why the Niger Delta is this polluted today. Illegal bunkering and pipeline vandalisation from groups affiliated to and protected by MEND have spilled millions of gallons of crude in the creeks and waters of the Niger Delta. Incessant bunkering by Ogoni youths have caused massive spills and wellhead leaks in the past couple of years.
Unless the environment and the fish can distinguish between the oil from the Oil companies' decaying equipment and the oil spills from these 'freedom fighters', the blame must be shared!

First of all, environmental damage from oil exploration predates MEND. Ogoni youths bunkering The sad truth is that FG officials are the ones bunkering.

Lets assume we go with your outlandish position, how does sharing the blame clean up the environmental damage?
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by SapeleGuy: 7:30pm On Jun 20, 2010
EzeUche:

Let the truth be told, this region was better when it was one region with the SE, not this South-South.

Dr. Michael Okpara would be turning in his grace if he seen how are region is now.

My dear friend, no be quarrel but don't forget MidWest (Edo & Delta) the only democratically created region in our history is now part of the South South.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by doja(m): 8:04pm On Jun 20, 2010
The following are facts that I have been able to deduce from all the arguments so far,

, The problem of oil spill in the ND is as a result of sabotage from thieves and 'freedom fighters' and then the oil companies( rusty pipe lines etc.)
, Our so called freedom fighters have provided the oil companies an excuse by damaging pipelines and until we are able to put a stop to these madness then we can fight the oil companies for destroying our environment  the same way the Americans are fighting BP.
, Our leaders at all levels have failed us and we must not pretend about this. I do not expect a Yaradua to show more concern about the goings on in oloibiri for example if Business owners, Citizens in the area, the local government chairman, Governor, Senator & Other representatives have not shown enough concern to get the media involved to the extent that the federal Government would be forced to listen and do something, its a shame that our politician only use media propaganda to destroy their percieved enemies they cant use it to better the cause of their people.  
,  We have not been fortunate enough to have the kind of leaders that can take initiatives but I believe we can force them to take actions that are beneficial to all by having a purposeful movement with serious articulated views.

Lastly, it is a serious sign of weakness to verbally attack people whose views are different from yours.We should try as much as we can to persuade people with superior argument not verbal assault.
Re: Why All The Noise About Mexico's Oil Spill When Worse Goes On In Nd by samdigo(m): 8:15pm On Jun 20, 2010
i have been saying the same thing, you know those oil companies have a double standard, in African nations where there is oil, they go there and take the oil and mess up the place, but in Alaska and other European nations, you wouldn't even know they have oil, of course the problem do-sent just lie with the oil companies, but they play a huge part

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