hopefulLandlord:


My own position is empirically proven whereas yours is based on speculation and faith. anything and everything can be claimed to be true on faith so its a terrible way of making claims

peacesamuel94:



If I may humbly ask, how is your position empirically proven, have you ever experienced that state of non existence that comes after death to know that an after life doesn't exist. ever tested and proven it.

Peacefullove:


Use your sense now

It says Lake of fire is second DEATH

If you don't know what death is, Kill your hen and study what happens after.

hopefulLandlord:

I was basing my own position on knowledge that we have so far. those that talk about heaven and all do so based on faith not knowledge. I can prove my own position by taking you to a mortuary

peacesamuel94:



If showing me to a mortuary could serve as proof for the non existence of afterlife, then it means you could as well show me the clear sky as proof of the non existence of exoplanets resident in distant galaxies. when you made you use of the term "empirically proven" it passed the message of surety, of personal conviction due to experience. Alas! that isn't the case.

Primesky:


My dear, stop dodging the fact here. You move from hell to lake of fire!. Read your Bible well. There are differences between physical death and spiritual death.

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

You're spiritually dead already without Jesus Christ, even though you're talking and moving. This mystery is beyond the natural man. Only the Holy Spirit can do it for you.

Can someone move from hell fire to heaven?. We should strive not to go to hell in the first place, so as not to go into the lake of fire.

You people said when bad people die, they vanish away, so how come we have a second death?, how?.

The second death in the lake of fire, will still be like the the first, but will be much force and terrible.

Demons and devils may play around in hell fire, but they can't do that in the lake of fire!. Be careful what you hold as truth.

Peacefullove:


Let me first address your childish question

The same Revelation verse 20 said and I saw the Dead standing before the throne, How did they come alive to stand before the throne

Verse 13 answers The Sea release the dead in it. Hell Also release the. Dead in it.

Now food for you: Ask your pastor tomorrow at Church, If Hell is a place of punishment how come Those who died in the sea do not go there ?

Back to the matter .

Define death first ! After doing that, I believe the whole lake of fire thing will be solved . now proceed to define it .

Primesky:


This is absolute falsehood teaching and a wicked one at that. God is love, that's a fact, but don't ever try to rationalize what God can do.

Glad made hell fire for the devil to punish him and his colleagues for their sin. Satan filled with rage and jealousy, decided that since God will go that length in punishing him in such a terrible way because of sin, he will ensure he doesn't go there alone, at least the very creature God loves most, which is man will have to go along with him. Please, stop misinterpreting the scriptures. The bible is clear about this matter.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

The scripture above tells you about an everlasting fire, originally prepared for the devil, but if you follow the devil to sin, then he is your god, so you will go with him there.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

After the death of this disobedient spirits long ago, which were long dead, Jesus went to the prison of hell to give to them the gospel message as well, since they never heard it in their time.

Stop making the punishment of God a light thing. If a criminal knows that if he's condemned, he will just die off and that ends it, why should he bother himself with striving to do right, after all he will just die and go. But there's no such thing!. That's the lie of the devil.

Be careful, lest while trying to defend your religion,you make God himself a liar!.


If you die unworthy of Christ,you will spend your eternity in hell fire. If you die in Christ,you will spend your eternity in heaven. You can't deny this.

The story of the Rich man and Lazarus, which Jesus told is enough in itself to tell you the reality over there. man in the torment of fire, not dieing, yet in full anguish, was asking for water to cool his thirst. Don't wave it aside as a parable or whatever, that's the truth in plain light. Stop giving people false hope.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Hell fire is real!. Heaven is also real. Chose to believe in Jesus Christ today, that's the only way out. Salvation is now!.

Peacefullove:


He presented his points with your Bible , doesn't he?

Where is Adam , show us where they say his punishment is burning in fire ? ( A)

( am tagging my responses to you in alphabetical order, so as to he organized )



The question is: What is this Everlasting Fire ? The same bible told us , The CITY of Sodom and Gomorrah was punished with this Everlasting Fire .

Am not sure those cities are still burning till today , are they? Is the Everlasting fire that born those city Hellfire ? ( B)

I want your response



The text never says Prison OF HELL, stop telling Lies Mr

Don't assume what is not there, Those people are washed away by water, They can't go to hell

If you don't know the Spirit been talked about, its better you shut your mouth instead giving lies, if you insist the Spirit are people of Noah's day, Can someone who died in the Sea, go to hell ? ? ( C)



Devil says : Ye shall NOT die .

He promised they have an immortal soul ( Genesis 3:4 )

Can you just see Primesky is making himself the advocate of the Devil ? ( D)




Did God say Adam will spend his Eternity in hellfire ? ( back to A )



The Man is in Grave , no such thing like fire in the grave . is Hades not Grave ? I weep for your lack of knowledge .

So he can thirst, that's an human , NOT a mythical soul

So do you now agree human Body go to hell ? Since you so love this story [E]




Of course the furnace of fire is as real as A Soul having Teeth to gnash.

Do souls have teeth ? I though the teeth is a skeleton ( F )

Restroom:


The jugdement reserved for the Devil, is destruction.And his followers will meet the same fate.

Peacefullove:


Let me first address your childish question

The same Revelation verse 20 said and I saw the Dead standing before the throne, How did they come alive to stand before the throne

Verse 13 answers The Sea release the dead in it. Hell Also release the. Dead in it.

Now food for you: Ask your pastor tomorrow at Church, If Hell is a place of punishment how come Those who died in the sea do not go there ?

Back to the matter .

Define death first ! After doing that, I believe the whole lake of fire thing will be solved . now proceed to define it .

Primesky:


Ignorance is very bad. It's even worse when you pridefully wallow in it, and don't know you're ignorant.

Oh!, may God have mercy on you. How ling will you guys continue to twist and misinterpret scriptures?. Just to assuage your ego, and defend the false teaching of a man.

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

The problem you have now is like that of a man who is clearly doing wrong, but when confronted, he refuses to bulge because of pride. Pray you don't realise the truth rather too late.

In your head and mind, you assume that since God is love, He cannot burn people in hell fire, and you and your founder, have done everything to perpetuate this falsehood. But the bible at various points stated it clearly. Note, God doesn't send people to hell fire, rather people choose to go there by their decisions, some are ever stubborn to accept the truth! So you don't blame God.

You neither believe in the Holy Spirit not do you believe in man having a soul, even when the bible said so, so it will be foolishness to you. Already, you're twisting things here.

There's absolutely no way, a carnal man can understand the things of the spirit. When you don't believe not have the Holy Spirit of God in you, how can you know the things of God?. You will keep using carnal reasoning to explain it.

1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I can't imagine you telling people that the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah was the hell fire. It's really a pity.

Primesky:


Ignorance is very bad. It's even worse when you pridefully wallow in it, and don't know you're ignorant.

. [s]

Oh!, may God have mercy on you. How ling will you guys continue to twist and misinterpret scriptures?. Just to assuage your ego, and defend the false teaching of a man.
[/s]

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

[s]

The problem you have now is like that of a man who is clearly doing wrong, but when confronted, he refuses to bulge because of pride. Pray you don't realise the truth rather too late.

In your head and mind, you assume that since God is love, He cannot burn people in hell fire, and you and your founder, have done everything to perpetuate this falsehood. But the bible at various points stated it clearly. Note, God doesn't send people to hell fire, rather people choose to go there by their decisions, some are ever stubborn to accept the truth! So you don't blame God.

You neither believe in the Holy Spirit not do you believe in man having a soul, even when the bible said so, so it will be foolishness to you. Already, you're twisting things here.

There's absolutely no way, a carnal man can understand the things of the spirit. When you don't believe not have the Holy Spirit of God in you, how can you know the things of God?. You will keep using carnal reasoning to explain it.

1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I can't imagine you telling people that the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah was the hell fire. It's really a pity. [/s]

Restroom:
For thousands of years now, many have been led to believe in the doctrine of hell fire.

Biblically, this teaching has no basis.
Some invoke the expression recorded in Revelation
21:8 and Rev 19:20, I.e. the 'lake of fire' or 'lake that burns with sulfur'as evidence of hell fire.

Others point to Jesus parable about the rich man and Lazarus, recorded in Luke 16:19-31.

While these Bible verses speak of punishment in fire, they are not to be taken literally.

The language in which the Book of Revelation was written, were all symbolic. Also, the story of the Rich man and Lazarus, was an illustration directed at the proud pharisees, who believed they were favoured before God. Jesus used the illustration to let the pharisees realized that, things have changed for the ordinary Israelites, with the arrival of the messiah. God stopped using the pharisees to teach the Jews the law, with the coming of Jesus Christ .With the presence of Gods son teaching the Jews directly about God, the spiritual condition of the Jews became elevated while the Pharisees were debased. Seeing the changed condition of the jews, and the judgment message of Jesus against the Pharisees, they became enraged at Jesus.

Interestingly, Jesus Christ ended the role of the Pharisees as teachers of the law, when he established Christianity.Since the birth of the Christian congregation, the ordinary Jews and later the Gentiles, became opportuned to worship God freely.

Yet, as simple as the illustration of the rich man and pharisees were, the religions of today have latched on to it, as proof that hell fire existed. The Pharisees that Jesus directed the message to knew that Jesus was talking to them. They knew the meaning that, spiritually speaking, their position as teachers of the law had changed forever with Jesus presence. And that the common man they looked down upon is now favoured with the previlegde of been taught the way of Christ, which opens to them the direct opportunity of communicating with God.

Hence, to those who misconstrue, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus as proof of hell fire, it is good to read that account again, to get the import of the parable.

According to first John 4:8, God is Love.

Can a God of love burn his sinning creatures in fire?

What do you think?

To answer it clearly, think about yourself for a moment. Can you burn your child in fire for sinning or doing something you forbid?

Can you ?
Well, I can't.

As a human, how many of us even think about using fire as a possible means to punish criminals?

Few, if any.
How many human government burn criminals alive?

None!
If humans in General Dont do it, why do people now want God to do it?
If human government Dont burn criminals in fire, is it God that we now burn his own creature in everlasting fire?

God is love.
If humans, Dont do it, God can't do it.
We are made in God s image, remember.
If you can't do it, because it looks unjust, then, God cannot do it.

Also, there is no record in the Genesis account of creation, of how God created Hellfire and where it is located.Where is hellfire located ?Who created it? Where is evidence that God created it? The bible recorded how God created everything, including the sun, moon and stars.How come it is silent about hellfire?

Now God told Adam, that if he sins against him, he would go back to the dust.Because he created him from the dust. Now if Adam returned to the dust as God told him, how come his children go the hell fire as popularly claimed by churches of today?

God specifically told Adam in Genesis 3:19- For dust you are, and to dust, you will return.

But churches now say, for dust you are and to hellfire you will return.

Can God lie?

Who knows better, God or churches?

Where do we go at death?

Is Adam in hell fire?
Which hell fire?

According to God is statement to Adam, at death, he returned to dust, to a state of none existence.

Adam was none existent before God created him.

At death, he returned to that state signified by dust.

But churches say no. We do not die. We continue to live but in hell fire.
So a lot of people end up believing the big lie that hell fire exist .

God cannot lie.Satan is the only one that can burn sinners in hellfire, an imaginary place he has created to paint God as a wicked person who can debase his human creation by burning the sinners amongst them in hell fire.

Now, did God burn Adam in hell fire after he sinned, and became the first sinner on earth?

What's your answer?

If Adam didn't go to hell fire, as the first sinner, does it make sense to believe that his children and all sinners are in hell fire?

LastDays777:
Sorry man, there is hell fire. A lot of people have seen visions of it live.

Peacefullove:


Of course, a Muslim would see xtians in vision of hell because they do not accept Mohammed . and a xtians would see Muslims in hell Vision too because they do not accept Yeshua as Messiah

Doesn't this tell you its all in their head ?


And moreover we are in a business world, anything that sells and LIES sell the most when u use fear, so am not surprised many swallow the imaginary folktales released in audio tapes : Someone not allowed to enter hell because she wears ear rings , or plait her hairs, when did your imaginary spirit body start using ear rings, and is the ear ring the so called spirit wear spirit ear ring or metal .

In movies, A person dies and the next thing is they are flowing in the air with SHIRT and TROUSERS , really soon you guys will even believe your phones have an imaginary spirit.

Life is life, death is death. Prove: Tell me where you are 900 years ago, when you die, you return to. That same condition.

If you have an immortal spirit, it should exist that 900 years ago, and tell you where you are . common sense.

If you are a Christian your bible also, you are dust and to dust you shall return . it says YOU! YOU! Shall return to where ? Let me leave you with that

LastDays777:


Hehe, someone got triggered. How do you explain when people see visions and dreams of an event and it comes to pass exactly how they said it? Is in their head right?

Stop watching too much movies sir. A lot of lies and deception there. That I can agree with you.

"This is what I will do in the last days, God says: I will pour out my Spirit on everyone. Your sons and daughters will proclaim my message; your young men will see visions, and your old men will have dreams" - Acts 2:17

It will be frequent in the nearest future before the return of Yeshua (Jesus). The spiritual realm is as real as this physical world. Because you have not experienced it or you have not seen proof of something doesn't make it fake.

Restroom:


Thanks for your reply to his question.

At death, you return to the dust. The difference between yourself and him is this, your actions are wicked and deliberate, for which God will choose not to resurrect you because you did it intentionally. Unless of course, you genuinely repented before his death.

The fact that people commit crimes does change the fact that at death, they all go back to the dust.

If you like kill as many as you wish and do all the evil you wish, at death you return to the dust without hope of any future resurrection, that God reserves for his righteous servants and many ignorant sinners of old.

Peacefullove:


Use your sense now

It says Lake of fire is second DEATH

If you don't know what death is, Kill your hen and study what happens after.

Peacefullove:


Will you agree if a Muslim saw Jesus in Hell vision ?

You guys select what to believe and discard the rest.

Not even those who died and come back in your Bible made stories of afterlife ...

I expect. The man who died for four days to recount such tales ... He didn't, even Yeshua admits he was just sleeping , in other words , doesn't know a thing

LastDays777:



Sir, you have not answered my question @ bolded. Are you running away from it?

princely83:

Hell is so much ALIVE. Infact the current Hell where the dammed are suffering and which is enlarging and receiving more souls will be be cast with death into the lake of fire which is the SECOND DEATH

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Peacefullove:


Visions and dreams are personal illusions, You can choose to believe them or not.


There are cases where people have visions and deals and the event occur , BY probability. And there are cases where people have vision and the Event do not OCCUR. Many pastors cover this lies with " I prayed against it "

This is why Its called probability..


For example: someone thinking about a sick relative before sleeping dreams the person died .

Two factors occur as a result of their thinking

1. If the person truly died, he claims he has seen the vision

2. If the person survived the sickness, he claims he prayed against it and say thank you Jesus .


Now even your holy book told you not to attach any importance to dreams and visions except those in the Bible - reference Hebrew 1:1 and 2 , God speak to forefathers in various ways ( dreams and vision) but today speak to Christians through a Son, Jesus ( details of him are in the bible )

So get your facts right

Primesky:


You're a mortal man trying to box God and spirituality into your limited human sphere. In simple definition, death is the absence of life in a body or being. If a human body dies, it becomes inactive. But what happens when a spirit being dies?, let me put it this way, how does a spirit die?. This is where you miss it.

Look at the passage below.

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

You may be alive in the body, but as far as you don't have Jesus Christ in you, you're dead!. I didn't say that, you have it there in the bible. How can you explain the fact that a man who is actively working about, carrying out his daily activities is dead?. If the man is still active, who then died according to the scriptures?. The soul of the man!.

Again, explain what Jesus was saying here below.

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

When the body, which is the carrier of the soul dies, the soul must wait for judgement. If there is no soul according to you, who then do you judge after death?. The decaying flesh?.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

The issue now is, the soul of man and his spirit, like wise angels, which are spirit, are made by the breath of God. You cannot destroy the breath of God which is spirit. Now don't twist it here, this breath is different from the life force of this spirit. This breath is the base ingredient for the making of this various spirits, and they are unique to the personality. If the spirit disobeys God by sinning, like Lucifer did, it will suffer punishment by death. What is that death?, it is the eternal separation from God.

To the physical man and eyes, it means nothing, but it's a terrible state of hopelessness, pain and fear. It is the absence of the essence of God, and the presenc of every kind of evil, fire is just one of many others. Satan is dead, like wise his fallen angels, though they have no physical bodies like man. But we see him and his colleagues actively causing meyhem everywhere.They will be eternally punished in the lake of everlasting fire, with everything else, man inclusive not in the will and way of God.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Look very well, those who stood before the throne of God for judgement were not physical bodies, but souls of the dead, hence the bible called them the dead, because they have no bodies. The soul is a very active, conscious being, he feels, taste, smells and has emotions.

Again, Jesus told us not to fear those who can only harm the flesh but not the soul.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Man can definitely kill the body, burn it and crush it to pieces. But how is it that man can not kill the soul?! Because the soul is a spirit being.

Seek the Holy Spirit to guide you on these things.

LastDays777:


By probability? Chei, we are done here.

Before I leave let me give you a proper example:

princely83:
I sense in my spirit that the OP is a Jehovah witness devotee. Anyway I am not surprised as they are already been led astray and if they do not leave that church they will end up in HELL. They add and remove from the word of God and fail to see that there is God judgement for doing that. See...

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

God says whoever changes His word such person will be condemned to HELL.

Jehovah witness only preach that GOD(JEHOVAH) is ONLY LOVE like the OP as said but they blind their members/ remove the part in the Bible that says GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE(Deu 4-24, Heb 12-29). Have you not read that HE( Jesus Christ)has the Power to destroy both the body and soul in Hell(Matt 10:28). Now you might say God cannot take the body and soul to hell but read this....

Numbers 16:32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.

Numbers 16:33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.

You can see here that they went to the pit (Hell) ALIVE. God destroyed both body and soul in hell.

This is why Jesus Christ reminded us of this statement:

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Op please if you don't want to go to hell please LEAVE that Jehovah witness church and find a real bible believing Church where the unadulterated WORD OF GOD IS PREACHED. YOU CANNOT CONTINUE TO BE IN A PLACE WHERE JESUS CHRIST IS NOT ACKNOWLEDGED AS THE SON OF THE MOST HIGH GOD. GOD bless you!!!

Peacefullove:

Must you assume, even if the Op is a member of some religion, Tackle his points and leave sentiments aside .



Can you explain the red for me ?

Do bodies go to hell as well ?

Also my previous question to. You on Rev 20 vs 13 is still waiting for you BRo

Peacefullove:


So its soul of the man. That dies .. Mr primesky, assumption master

Joshua killed souls with sword, are the men still alive ?

When a soul dies, nothing is alive .



None of those who died in the bible and get ressyrected ever claim to have been judged .

You don't know anything about what you quote ..
I challenge you to provide just one person who was raised by Jesus or his apostles and have been judged when they died ? ( G)




Where in the bible is all that jargons up there written ?

chai .



You know.nothing about what you are quoting, False prophet and Beast are NOT real animals , what do they represent ?

Tell me.if what they represent will actually burn in fire .

In Daniel book, animals are used to represent Kingdoms and powers , If that's correct ... It means the wild beast represent A World power kingdom, Will this kingdom literally be burning forever ?

When you decode this, You would understand what will happen to Satan since they ave the same end . and that should help throw more light on what actually is lake of fire .

Decode ?
( H)


They stand after the Sea and Hell release the dead in them.


Ohhhh, so your mythical. Souls are trapped in the Sea ? Wow

Can you explain how this ones are souls if they can be trapped by the Sea .



See your life Bro. Can't you see you have contradicted yourself.

Statement 1: it was souls that stand, they have no bodies .

But Jesus said BODY also goes to hell ?
Who is lying

DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT TEXT THAT BODY Aldo GOES TO HELL ?

IF YOU DO, HOw MANY BODIES HAVE YOU HEaRD DISAPPEARED to Hell ?


If None, is Jesus lying in that verse ?

Explain that red area for me if he is not lying