This is just a brain exercise between me and budaatum and anybody who is abreast with eastern faith can join.....maybe Budaatum will change my perspective......

This are the four noble truth of Buddism. It represent the main teaching of gurtanma Buddha. .......the main founder of buddism.....i will put them into summary.....

1 There is suffering and misery in life.

2 The cause of suffering and misery is desire.

3 Suffering and misery can be removed by removing desire.

4 Desire can be removed by following the Eight Fold Path.


This information were source out from Wikipedia and Britannica but put in a summary by me.... to read the eight fold......go this way ....

......https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path


Now my argument....

This Philosophy of Buddhism is self-contradictory or self-defeating because the third truth says ‘suffering and misery can be removed by removing desire’ and the fourth truth says that 'desire can be removed by following the Eight Fold Path'.

Now, for any person to follow Buddhism he should first have the desire to follow the Four Noble Truths and the Eight Fold Path. The Third great Noble Truth says that desire should be removed. Once you remove desire, how can we follow the Fourth Noble truth i.e. follow the Eight Fold Path unless we have a desire to follow the Eight Fold Path. In short desire can only be removed by having a desire to follow the Eight Fold Path. If you do not follow the Eight Fold Path, desire cannot be removed. It is self contradicting as well as self-defeating to say that desire will only be removed by continuously having a desire........



BUDAATUM.....

Try and read more on Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism. Are u a Buddha?

Inordinate desire not just desire, the desire for material gains ,sex, power, control and attachment to Maya(the material world) are what causes suffering

donwhit:
Inordinate desire not just desire, the desire for material gains ,sex, power, control and attachment to Maya(the material world) are what causes suffering

well. This is not the purpose of this thread. I am not on this thread to claim that Buddha noble truth is false but verify the contradiction in them.....but If i am allow to go your way .I will say it is even falsifiable, as if you find an instance of suffering (not pain) not caused by desire, this noble truth is false.

bajes01:
Try and read more on Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism. Are u a Buddha?

ok thanks...i will look to that....i am not a Buddhist...i belong to my race....i am a traditionalist.

Read 100,000 songs of milarepa or quietly comes the Buddha by Elizabeth clare prophet. Though religion may be different ,there is only one truth. If your path is traditionalism, practice it well. Purify your heart, mind, body, soul, thoughts, feelings and speech. And ask your deity to give you the wisdom of right action. Life is to beautiful to be arguing over religion. Love

donwhit:
Read 100,000 songs of milarepa or quietly comes the Buddha by Elizabeth clare prophet. Though religion may be different ,there is only one truth. If your path is traditionalism, practice it well. Purify your heart, mind, body, soul, thoughts, feelings and speech. And ask your deity to give you the wisdom of right action. Life is to beautiful to be arguing over religion. Love

safe bro.....bye..

vaxx:


Now my argument....

This Philosophy of Buddhism is self-contradictory or self-defeating because the third truth says ‘suffering and misery can be removed by removing desire’ and the fourth truth says that 'desire can be removed by following the Eight Fold Path'.

Now, for any person to follow Buddhism he should first have the desire to follow the Four Noble Truths and the Eight Fold Path. The Third great Noble Truth says that desire should be removed. Once you remove desire, how can we follow the Fourth Noble truth i.e. follow the Eight Fold Path unless we have a desire to follow the Eight Fold Path. In short desire can only be removed by having a desire to follow the Eight Fold Path. If you do not follow the Eight Fold Path, desire cannot be removed. It is self contradicting as well as self-defeating to say that desire will only be removed by continuously having a desire.

BUDAATUM.....

One of the most debilitating causes of argument in the religious section is the misrepresentation of the position or meaning of the other. Sometimes its done intentionally. We call it strawmanism. But sometimes its in error, perhaps because our understanding of what is being said is wrong.

"Seek ye first Understanding", therefore, say some. It is quite a lot of work you are asked to do there for the promise that follows to be fulfilled. Buda would simply advise that one not mistake the pointing finger for the moon it points to.


The root of all suffering is desire, tanhā. This is the second Noble Truth. Tanhā is a term in Pali, the language of the Buddhist scriptures, that specifically means craving or misplaced desire and it comes in three forms:
* Greed and desire
* Ignorance or delusion
* Hatred and destructive urges.
These are the three ultimate causes of suffering.

The Buddha taught that the way to extinguish desire, which causes suffering, is to liberate oneself from attachment to Tanhā. This is the third Noble Truth - the possibility of liberation from Tanhā.

Buddhists recognise that there can be positive desires, such as desire for enlightenment and good wishes for others and even to enter Nirvana. A neutral term for such desires is chanda, and they differ to Tanhā. A reading for the Eightfold Path would show that they are full of desires of the chanda type.

Effectively, the Four Noble Truths could be written as follows:

1. Suffering (Dukkha), exists.

2. The origin of suffering is Tanhā, the having of wrong desires.

3. To cease suffering is to remove Tanhā.

4. And the way to remove Tanhā is to replace it with chanda, positive desires.

A mantra depicting the above would be
Chanda good, Tanhā bad

And where, pray, is the contradiction in vaxx?

donwhit:
Inordinate desire not just desire, the desire for material gains ,sex, power, control and attachment to Maya(the material world) are what causes suffering

Thank you donwhit for pointing out the difference in the desires that are meant and that cause suffering.

budaatum:

One of the most debilitating causes of argument in the religious section is the misrepresentation of the position or meaning of the other. Sometimes its done intentionally. We call it strawmanism. But sometimes its in error, perhaps because our understanding of what is being said is wrong.

"Seek ye first Understanding", therefore, say some. It is quite a lot of work you are asked to do there for the promise that follows to be fulfilled. Buda would simply advise that one not mistake the pointing finger for the moon it points to.


The root of all suffering is desire, tanhā. This is the second Noble Truth. Tanhā is a term in Pali, the language of the Buddhist scriptures, that specifically means craving or misplaced desire and it comes in three forms:
* Greed and desire
* Ignorance or delusion
* Hatred and destructive urges.
These are the three ultimate causes of suffering.

The Buddha taught that the way to extinguish desire, which causes suffering, is to liberate oneself from attachment to Tanhā. This is the third Noble Truth - the possibility of liberation from Tanhā.

Buddhists recognise that there can be positive desires, such as desire for enlightenment and good wishes for others and even to enter Nirvana. A neutral term for such desires is chanda, and they differ to Tanhā. A reading for the Eightfold Path would show that they are full of desires of the chanda type.

Effectively, the Four Noble Truths could be written as follows:

1. Suffering (Dukkha), exists.

2. The origin of suffering is Tanhā, the having of wrong desires.

3. To cease suffering is to remove Tanhā.

4. And the way to remove Tanhā is to replace it with chanda, positive desires.

A mantra depicting the above would be
Chanda good, Tanhā bad

And where, pray, is the contradiction in vaxx?

it seems you do not understand the argument raised.. the philosophical position of Buddha is the causes of suffering can be remove by removing desire at the third truth. And he again said to remove the desire we should follow the eight fold path. which means . If you do not follow the Eight Fold Path, desire cannot be removed. It is self contradicting as well as self-defeating to say that desire will only be removed by continuously having a desire........because once we remove desire, how can we follow the eight fold......


It seems you don't even understand the argument raised.

vaxx:
it seems you do not understand the argument raised.. the philosophical position of Buddha is the causes of suffering can be remove by removing desire at the third truth. And he again said to remove the desire we should follow the eight fold path. which means . If you do not follow the Eight Fold Path, desire cannot be removed. It is self contradicting as well as self-defeating to say that desire will only be removed by continuously having a desire........because once we remove desire, how can we follow the eight fold......


It seems you don't even understand the argument raised.

Are you completely disregarding the difference between the two types of desires called Tanhā and Chanda as stated, or do you just not understand the concept of duality?

For the Christians who reads this, Paul, in a letter to the Galatians expressed the same concept of Tanhā when he said: The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

And Chanda when he said: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

And the same sentiment as Tanhā is expressed by the seven deadly sins of pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth; and Chanda as the seven virtues of prudence, justice, temperance and courage (or fortitude), faith, hope and charity.

I am certain I have stated my objection to your "you don't even understand the argument" in previous threads, vaxx, where you and I have engaged. It is after all the standard phrase you constantly utter whenever you are disagreed with.

It is not self contradicting or self-defeating to say that the wrong desires will only be removed by continuously having the right and proper desires.

vaxx:
it seems you do not understand the argument raised.. the philosophical position of Buddha is the causes of suffering can be remove by removing desire at the third truth. And he again said to remove the desire we should follow the eight fold path. which means . If you do not follow the Eight Fold Path, desire cannot be removed. It is self contradicting as well as self-defeating to say that desire will only be removed by continuously having a desire........because once we remove desire, how can we follow the eight fold......


It seems you don't even understand the argument raised.

Or perhaps you do not understand the arguments Buddha made (Not Budaatum)

Even i who just read the reply from budaatum and donwit up there figured out that there wasn't really a contradiction as you have argued.

Your argument do not distinguish between desires which in it self is a flaw (A misrepresentation) of the premise.

Read Budaatum's reply slowly. It's too obvious to miss

budaatum:


Are you completely disregarding the difference between the two types of desires called Tanhā and Chanda as stated, or do you just not understand the concept of duality?

For the Christians who reads this, Paul, in a letter to the Galatians expressed the same concept of Tanhā when he said: The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

And Chanda when he said: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

And the same sentiment as Tanhā is expressed by the seven deadly sins of pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth; and Chanda as the seven virtues of prudence, justice, temperance and courage (or fortitude), faith, hope and charity.

I am certain I have stated my objection to your "you don't even understand the argument" in previous threads, vaxx, where you and I have engaged. It is after all the standard phrase you constantly utter whenever you are disagreed with.

It is not self contradicting or self-defeating to say that the wrong desires will only be removed by continuously having the right and proper desires.

The desire to even get rid of desire is a mind bend exercise.....budha philosophy is not sound here...but anyway that is cool..

The origin of desire is basically summed up in three types: desire for sensual pleasure, desire to become something, and the desire get away from something...""the heart of Buddha teaching "" by Thich Nhat Hanh .The book explore the concepts like the four noble truths, the eightfold path, the three doors of liberation and demonstrates their power to transform lives. Than what i can do here.

According to the budha philosophy, we all seek these different things in the hopes of attaining happiness. Buddha himself never argued that these desires did not reap a certain kind of pleasure, so it is false on your path when you are trying to seprate the good and bad desire. I intentionally allow that to go. Thinking you will not repeat it .

It only that the chasing of, the eventual relinquishing of, and the struggle to maintain the happiness derived from these types of desires is so fleeting, so short, and the negative consquences so great, as to make the entire pursuit completely unsatisfactory and not worth it, especially compared to the endless joy reaped from enlightenment.

Let me ask you a question

How often do we say we want to become something other than what we are now? How often have we already become something and when has it actually given us lasting satisfaction?

What about when we want to get rid of something, like getting rid of impatience? Or anger? IF ALL these are cause by desire..


IN A well philosophical thought out. It will have make sense if the Idea is to understand your desire, how it arises and what it brings. And not get rid of your desire .That would be just another kind of desire. The more you understand a particular kind of desire, the greater grows your ability to let it go if you eventually deem it no longer worth pursuing....

You seems to always look for excuses.....

johnydon22:


Or perhaps you do not understand the arguments Buddha made (Not Budaatum)

Even i who just read the reply from budaatum and donwit up there figured out that there wasn't really a contradiction as you have argued.

Your argument do not distinguish between desires which in it self is a flaw (A misrepresentation) of the premise.

Read Budaatum's reply slowly. It's too obvious to miss

Maybe you will understand it better when you get what Buddha means by the desire..the choice of word in that statement is simply desire...and nothing like wrong or bad desire in that statement.... Buddha himself gave what is term as the origin of desire...he said it is classify into three .....the desire for sensual pleasure, desire to become something, and the desire get away from something.. which we all seek to remain happy.


Buddha only used the word "Tanha" in negative context only. However, compare to "Chanda" Buddha used it in both positive and negative contexts. This is just to spark intellectual curiosity in Buddha's lectures. Both words Tanha and Chanda can be roughly translated to "desire" in English...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chanda_(Buddhism).

vaxx:

IN A well philosophical thought out. It will have make sense if the Idea is to understand your desire,how it arises and what it brings.And not get rid of your desire .That would be just another kind of desire. The more you understand a particular kind of desire, the greater grows your ability to let it go if you eventually deem it no longer worth pursuing....

What you have written above is the Four Noble Truths vaxx! Or can you not even understand what you yourself are writing?

Once you understand what your desires are and how pointless they are you stop pursuing them, and even the desire for enlightenment and entering Nirvana disappears, because you can now see and understand.

And instead of fulfilling the ultimate desire of becoming a Buddha and entering Nirvana, you settle as a Bodhisattva, the Sanskrit term for anyone who has generated Bodhicitta, the spontaneous wish and compassionate mind to attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings and not just for yourself, which is the desire you began with, and why you followed the Eightfold Path, not knowing when you began that this was it's aim. The only desire left over is that of eliminating the suffering of others, and you understand that it's not some external desire, but something you constantly strive to bring about yourself.

It is what is explained in the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205:3-12&version=KJV]Beatitudes[/url], "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." And in the phrase, "Be the change you want to see" .

Buddhism is indeed mind bending. Shen Hsiu who thought he was enlightened said:

The body is the wisdom-tree,
The mind is a bright mirror in a stand;
Take care to wipe it all the time,
And allow no dust to cling.

From this, the Fifth Patriarch knew Shen Hsiu had not yet found his original nature, but was still wiping dust off a mirror hoping to attain Buddhahood. Hui Neng who couldn't even write, had someone write down his poem, which read:

Fundamentally no wisdom-tree exists,
Nor the stand of a mirror bright.
Since all is empty from the beginning,
Where can the dust alight.

And the Fifth Patriarch gave him the insignia of his office, the Patriarch's robe and bowl, and Hui Neng became the Sixth Patriarch.

Until your mind bends, vaxx, you will not hear the sound of one hand clapping!

vaxx:
However, compare to "Chanda" Buddha used it in both positive and negative contexts.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chanda_(Buddhism).

Really vaxx? The following is from your wiki link.

Ajahn Sucitto states:
Desire as an eagerness to offer, to commit, to apply oneself to meditation, is called chanda. It’s a psychological “yes,” a choice, not a pathology. In fact, you could summarize Dhamma training as the transformation of taṇhā into chanda.

If they are the same, I would wonder why Dhamma training is the transformation of [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%E1%B9%87h%C4%81?wprov=sfla1]taṇhā[/url] into chanda!

Are you sure you understand what you read?

johnydon22:


Or perhaps you do not understand the arguments Buddha made (Not Budaatum)

Even i who just read the reply from budaatum and donwit up there figured out that there wasn't really a contradiction as you have argued.

Your argument do not distinguish between desires which in it self is a flaw (A misrepresentation) of the premise.

Read Budaatum's reply slowly. It's too obvious to miss

He is good for one thing. He makes me have to be careful and precise when I respond to him!

vaxx:
Buddha himself gave........

Buddha only used ......

Buddha used it in ....

Buddha's lectures......

Show me where you got your Buddha's lectures from please.

budaatum:

What you have written above is the Four Noble Truths vaxx! Or can you not even understand what you yourself are writing?

Once you understand what your desires are and how pointless they are you stop pursuing them, and even the desire for enlightenment and entering Nirvana disappears, because you can now see and understand.

And instead of fulfilling the ultimate desire of becoming a Buddha and entering Nirvana, you settle as a Bodhisattva, the Sanskrit term for anyone who has generated Bodhicitta, the spontaneous wish and compassionate mind to attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings and not just for yourself, which is the desire you began with, and why you followed the Eightfold Path, not knowing when you began that this was it's aim.. The only desire left over is that of eliminating the suffering of others, and you understand that it's not some external desire, but something you constantly strive to bring about yourself.

It is what is explained in the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205:3-12&version=KJV]Beatitudes[/url], "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." And in the phrase, "Be the change you want to see" .

Buddhism is indeed mind bending. Shen Hsiu who thought he was enlightened said:

The body is the wisdom-tree,
The mind is a bright mirror in a stand;
Take care to wipe it all the time,
And allow no dust to cling.

From this, the Fifth Patriarch knew Shen Hsiu had not yet found his original nature, but was still wiping dust off a mirror hoping to attain Buddhahood. Hui Neng who couldn't even write, had someone write down his poem, which read:

Fundamentally no wisdom-tree exists,
Nor the stand of a mirror bright.
Since all is empty from the beginning,
Where can the dust alight.

And the Fifth Patriarch gave him the insignia of his office, the Patriarch's robe and bowl, and Hui Neng became the Sixth Patriarch.

Until your mind bends, vaxx, you will not hear the sound of one hand clapping!

self contradicting. It seems Buddha forget that we are a definitive reason for our troubles, and likewise we are the arrangement. We can't change the things that transpire by eliminating one desire in replacement of another....what we left is decision making and not replacement of desire.

, If you drop the ball of decision-making, then society (established by your oppressors) will make the decisions for you. You have to always be making decisions. And not what Buddha is telling you to do...replacing your own desire..

No matter how oppressed you might feel, choices are always available. If you don't see them that is because you are blind to difficult choices and only can see the easy ones.

budaatum:

Show me where you got your Buddha's lectures from please.

there is a wikepedia page that i reference. Why don't you give it a look.

vaxx:
self contradicting. It seems Buddha forget that we are a definitive reason for our troubles.

Yet, he said, quoting from you in the op:

"2 The cause of suffering and misery is desire."

I guess you see a O there somewhere.

As to "Buddha's Lectures", it would appear you have a lot yet to learn.

budaatum:

Yet, he said, quoting from you in the op:

"2 The cause of suffering and misery is desire."

I guess you see a O there somewhere.

As to "Buddha's Lectures", it would appear you have a lot yet to learn.

yet he still says the desire can be remove by following another desire.""the eight part ...how contradicting is that.If you do not follow the Eight Fold Path, desire cannot be removed. It is self contradicting as well as self-defeating to say that desire will only be removed by continuously having a desire........


And as to the teaching of Buddha.......You need not to relax on what you have learnt.....ire o

I rarely enjoy when spiritual perspectives clashes one another. The reason is, although truth is universal, spiritual tradition are not always parallel and there may not be correspondances

It is better for practioners from different perspectives to seek to learn from each other, rather than trying to outline the mistakes of others.

vaxx:
No matter how oppressed you might feel, choices are always available.

Choices of desires, perhaps? As in choosing positive chanda desires and not negative tanhā desires?

vaxx:
If you don't see them that is because you are blind to difficult choices and only can see the easy ones.

budaatum:

Choices of desires, perhaps? As in choosing positive chanda desires and not negative tanhā desires?

there is not pleasent chanda, and at apoint Chanda must be abandon when it is ripe to do it. With thanha which is closely translated as craving, you might be wrong...


Take a look at

this.....http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.022.than.html

How does one tell the difference between desire and craving.

vaxx:
there is not pleasent chanda, and at apoint Chanda must be abandon when it is ripe to do it. With thanha which is closely translated as craving, you might be wrong...


Take a look at

this.....http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.022.than.html

How does one tell the difference between desire and craving.

The complexity of Buddhism eludes you. That is the reason you argue about chandas and tanhas being desires or cravings, and perceive a contradiction in the FNTs, and is summarised by the following which you yourself provided.

"Monks, there is the case where some worthless men study the Dhamma: dialogues, narratives of mixed prose and verse, explanations, verses, spontaneous exclamations, quotations, birth stories, amazing events, question & answer sessions [the earliest classifications of the Buddha's teachings]. Having studied the Dhamma, they don't ascertain the meaning (or: the purpose) of those Dhammas with their discernment. Not having ascertained the meaning of those Dhammas with their discernment, they don't come to an agreement through pondering. They study the Dhamma both for attacking others and for defending themselves in debate. They don't reach the goal for which [people] study the Dhamma. Their wrong grasp of those Dhammas will lead to their long-term harm & suffering. Why is that? Because of the wrong-graspedness of the Dhammas.

You haven't even noticed how a chanda desire itself can become a tanha desire and vice versa.

Desires come in numerous forms. They could be the expectations one has, things one needs, how one wishes things to be, beliefs, cravings, hunger etc. The idea is not simply only what the desires actually are, but also in what way one has them, and when they are held.

No one would claim a desire for food when hungry is a wrong desire for instance. Nor would many say a desire for world peace was unhealthy. But you might see how even the desire for world peace can be wrongly held when one, say, abandons ethics and moral considerations in attempting to fulfill the desire. And there sure is a right way to ensure no hunger - planting maize three months ago springs to mind. You'd agree that the desire for more food after a hearty meal just makes one a glutton.

Karl Popper wrote an interesting book titled All Life is Problem Solving. I borrow that title when I say "all life is desire". At the very least is the desire not to be hungry, be in pain or die. Another is to not be stupid and ignorant. You wouldn't argue that these are undesirable desires, but you may say they are wrongly held if one smoked a lot, drank a lot, did no exercise and hit one's thumb with a hammer five times a day. I'm sure you'd agree that a desire to not be stupid and ignorant is wrongly held by those who think they already know it all and refuse to learn. Essentially, the desire may be good, but the means to achieve it may be wrong, and this would make what would otherwise be considered a right chanda desire a wrong tanha desire, just by the tanhaic nature in its means.

See the link you posted. A desire for a raft to cross a river exists. Let's assume the intent and purpose of crossing the river is positive and that therefore, the desire for the raft is a positive desire. Can you see how holding on to this desire becomes a burden if held once the river is crossed? A desire may be chanda at the right moment but become a tanha if held on to way after it has stopped being beneficial. A clear cut example is the desire a parent has that makes them protect their offspring but which they have to let go of to further achieve their goal. Protect a child past a point in the child's development and the child would need protection from the overprotecting parent. "One has to hold onto the raft properly in order to cross the river. Only when one has reached the safety of the further shore can one let go."

The FNTs are simply claiming that holding on to, or practising the wrong understanding, wrong thought, wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood, wrong effort, wrong mindfulness and wrong concentration would cause suffering, since they are unhelpful cognitive distortions, tanha, which cause suffering in the individual. Replacing them with the, Right thought (Samma sankappa), Right speech (Samma vaca) , Right action (Samma kammanta), Right livelihood (Samma ajiva) , Right effort (Samma vayama), Right mindfulness (Samma sati) and Right concentration (Samma samadhi), chanda, would eliminate those sufferings.

The same concept is used in Cognitive-behavioral therapy where the focus is on challenging and changing unhelpful cognitive distortions (e.g. thoughts, beliefs, and attitudes) and behaviors, and improving emotional regulation and the development of personal coping strategies. The aim being to solve current existential problems.

What actually brought me back to this thread was how the wrong desires affect nations. Nigeria has the 'desire' to make 'believers' out of its people. While some of the intended outcomes of this desire might be improved morals and ethical behaviour - the evidence does not suggest that these outcomes of improved morals and ethical behaviour are being achieved however - there's a consequential lack of progress and development compounded by the antipathy of some towards learning and science and technology. I would claim we have the right chanda desires of progress and development, but we go about achieving them in the most tanhaic wrong way possible. The only way for Nigeria to progress is to abandon the wrong ways we currently adopt, and replace them for the right ways. It's what more developed nations have had to do, one of the latest examples being China, who are abandoning the communist rigidity of the past for the more laissez faire individualist doctrine of unrestricted freedom in commerce.

'Desire', as used in Buddhism, does not simple mean the English language craving. The Pali and Sanskrit texts make this obvious. We unfortunately loose a lot in translating to the less rich English Language. But there's a reason why tanha is split into kama-taṇhā (craving for sensual pleasures), bhava-taṇhā (craving for existence) vibhava-taṇhā (craving for non-existence), and so much more that becomes obvious once one starts seeing the twig in one's own eye.

There is a reason why the Buddhists would say,
Oṃ maṇi padme hūṃ.

ok thanks...i will look to that....i am not a Buddhist...i belong to my race....i am a traditionalist.

babalola2695:
I am a traditionalist.

So where the British, all of Europe, the Japanese, and the Chinese at various points until they decided to ja ọwọ kuro ninu apọn ti ko yọ and gbe omi ila ka ina and develop.