AlexRi:
Ok, assumption is wrong. Anyway, you are right that God's standards are exceedingly high, and no man can meet them. But Jesus has fulfilled ALL for the whole world. What is left is for man is to believe. Shalom!

Not true! Do note that by "Jesus has fulfilled all for the whole world", I am accepting that he has shown the way, and written it in blood too so it is never forgotten!

And he did claim that "Whoever understands will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these".

Believing, is rather insufficient. The road is way too narrow! Even the devil believes, but most would agree he will remain in hell!

To claim "no man can meet them", especially regarding the topic being discussed, has an error in understanding. "Those who do my will will never be shaken and will enter the Holy Mountain". One should strive harder if that is one's desire.

AlexRi:
Amen! Budaatum, hope you've forgiven me?

There was nothing to forgive since I was never offended. We come here to learn, or at least we ought to. It is sheer hubris to think otherwise. It is unloving too. And buda goes to hell, no passing go and no two hundred, if she dares forget that, atheist or not!

He didn't only show the way, He is the Way! And the only way. Believing is sufficient but not just any belief cos as you've rightly mentioned satan believe too. But to believe that Christ died for your sins and rose for your justification, that's the only way to be righteous in God's sight not some punny efforts of ours. It is not an error in understanding. The God kind of love is high and deep, the question is, who can attain it? The Bible says "I can do all thing through Christ who strengthens me". Now, how can you be strengthen to do all things(including loving your neighbour in the God kinda love) through Christ that you've not believed in?

AlexRi:
Now, how can you be strengthen to do all things(including loving your neighbour in the God kinda love) through Christ that you've not believed in?

Easy! By understanding that we are human beings first and foremost, regardless of the beliefs held in one's head. By knowing that whatever I believe makes me no more special than anyone else, and not thinking I am superior or inferior to anyone because of the beliefs I may or may not hold in my head. By understanding that there is a huge reward in loving others, being that I am more likely to be loved since I reap whatever I sow, and have a peaceful mind since I do not clutter it up with the efforts of hatred. By not being easily offended or quick to offend. And by generally treating others as I might wish to be treated while recognising others are not me and may want to be treated differently to how I may think fit or desire for myself.

This is a short summary, which I hope would do. But if you wonder how I came to the conclusions above, it is by learning done by reading books and observing people, my environment and whatever else I happen to have the opportunity to observe and learn from. It is these that all mean 'Jesus' to me.

I might however be lying, that I have learnt, that is. So do go through my history and let me know where I erred. It would help me in my striving harder, which I constantly aspire to do. But ignore my history with an individual I refer to as sc, and the ape. He constantly makes me backslide, and no amount of striving has allowed me to overcome. Perhaps the gods have placed him in my path to test me, I often wonder. Or to perfect me, I hope.

budaatum, can an evil man do good deeds sometimes? Yes he can. But can his good deeds change who he is? No it can't. This was the case of king Amaziah.

2 Chronicles25:2_ And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, but not with a perfect heart. All Amaziah did, though good was nothing, because his heart/motive was not perfect.

Man looks at actions, while God looks at the heart behind the actions. No matter how you train a dog to perform some human like activities, he will still be a dog.

Until Christ comes into a man and dwell by faith, he remains selfish.

Without Christ all of man's action is carried out with selfishness. The working and manifestation of the flesh

bloodofthelamb:
budaatum, can an evil man do good deeds sometimes? Yes he can. But can his good deeds change who he is? No it can't. This was the case of king Amaziah.

Do human beings not do evil things sometimes? Are they evil because of their actions? Do you not do 'evil' things sometimes? Are you evil?

To err, they say, is human. But even gods err sometimes. So I'd hardly go there, to be honest.

It is why one strives, if one cares, to live up to, at least, an ideal godly standard. If one's focus is to love, one is less likely to do evil, or the evil one does would be much less than if one did not strive at all.

budaatum:

Do human beings not do evil things sometimes? Are they evil because of their actions? Do you not do 'evil' things sometimes? Are you evil?

To err, they say, is human. But even gods err sometimes. So I'd hardly go there, to be honest.

It is why one strives, if one cares, to live up to, at least, an ideal godly standard. If one's focus is to love, one is less likely to do evil, or the evil one does would be much less than if one did not strive at all.

The heart of men is desperately evil. This is a divine declaration. Gen8:21_ "And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth."

This is where grace comes in to the picture. Without Christ Jesus our burnt offering we will be under God's holy wrath.

Everybody needs grace.

bloodofthelamb:


The heart of men is desperately evil. This is a divine declaration.

I am an atheist so it is against my nature to believe things I have no evidence for! Even if divinely declared.

I assume by 'men' you mean human beings, of which you are one. I cannot honestly claim you are desperate, or evil, because you have not given me any reason that you might be. And if I were to assume you are, I would be defensive, and probably attack you first and before you can attack me. And that would be contrary to loving you.

I do not share the opinion, divinely declared as it may be, that "The heart of men is desperately evil"! If I but think it were true, I, buda, would burn in hell.

Okay, Keep learning man, learning is good. The Lord is thy strength.

bloodofthelamb:

Everybody needs grace.

As to the grace though. I could have not had the opportunity as stated below, or not taken, or even be capable of taking advantage of the opportunity as I have done.

AlexRi:
..... if you wonder how I came to the conclusions above, it is by learning done by reading books and observing people, my environment and whatever else I happen to have the opportunity to observe and learn from.

So, O but for the grace of God go I.

budaatum, you are depending in your strength. Let me ask you, can a branch be fruitful on it's own without the enablement and support of its vine?

Is it possible? This is what you are trying to do. You are trying to do and be all these things without Christ.

Though you might "succeed" for a while, but you will surely fail. "By the arm of flesh shall no man prevail."

Try building a house without a foundation. Though it might stand, but for how long? Mankind lost his foundation in Adam, but have the chance to regain it back freely in Christ.

bloodofthelamb:
budaatum, you are depending in your strength. Let me ask you, can a branch be fruitful on it's on without the enablement and support of its vine?

Is it possible? This is what you are trying to do. You are trying to do and be all these things without Christ.

Do you might "succeed" for a while, but you will surely fail. "By the arm of flesh shall no man prevail."

Trying building a house without a foundation. Though it might stand, but for how long? Mankind lost his foundation in Adam, but have the chance to regain it back freely in Christ.

That is what you believe, blood, despite quite a lot of evidence to the contrary. Do you not, with your own eyes, see lots of people who are fruitful without Christ? Have you not read of any?

I told you about my "foundation". Years and years of learning to be buda. Very many many years indeed! Yet, out of the abundance of your supposed Christ filled heart, you boldly proclaim that buda "will surely fail", a statement completely devoid of love!

You make me wonder what the point of your 'Christ' is, blood. You appear to not love me! The 'Christ' I know of would not accept such behaviour from me. I would be condemned to the most fiery depth of hell if I but think it.

Thanks for your time. I enjoyed the conversation.

budaatum:

That is what you believe, blood, despite quite a lot of evidence to the contrary. Do you not, with your own eyes, see lots of people who are fruitful without Christ? Have you not read of any?

I told you about my "foundation". Years and years of learning to be buda. Very many many years indeed! Yet, out of the abundance of your supposed Christ filled heart, you boldly proclaim that buda "will surely fail", a statement completely devoid of love!

You make me wonder what the point of your 'Christ' is, blood. You appear to not love me! The 'Christ' I know of would not accept such behaviour from me. I would be condemned to the most fiery depth of hell if I but think it.

Thanks for your time. I enjoyed the conversation.

Ok friend.. You know I love( God kind of love ) and wants you to quit striving and enter his rest. Prepared for you and me before the very foundation of the world.

But it is still your will to choose. Nice conversing with you too.

Peace!

1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

to love God is not just doing Good to your neighbor but to obey all his commandments without feeling burdened.


when someone fornicates, commit, adultery, lie,steal and covert
it does mean he/she does not love God neither his/her neighbor.


1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

@budaatum

Blessed are those who remain in his love.

solite3:


to love God is not just doing Good to your neighbor but to obey all his commandments without feeling burdened.


when someone fornicates, commit, adultery, lie,steal and covert
it does mean he/she does not love God neither his/her neighbor.

I hope you see the contradiction in what you have written above. The first statement says one loves God when one "obey[s] all his commandments". Yet the second statement says it does not mean one does not love one's God if one breaks all those commandments! Then, look at those commandments, "fornicates, commit adultery, lie, steal and covert" , all things that one does to one's neighbour but which God commands one not to do!

solite3, it would appear to me that your God has rather different commandments for you than buda's God has for buda. If buda were to accept what your God seems to be saying, buda's God would be very very annoyed at buda's stupidity. And buda's God has only one punishment for buda if buda is stupid. buda would be thrown into hell!

To those whom less is given, less is demanded. Much more is demanded from buda!

budaatum:

I hope you see the contradiction in what you have written above. The first statement says one loves God when one "obey[s] all his commandments". Yet the second statement says it does not mean one does not love one's God if one breaks all those commandments! Then, look at those commandments, "fornicates, commit adultery, lie, steal and covert" , all things that one does to one's neighbour but which God commands one not to do!

solite3, it would appear to me that your God has rather different commandments for you than buda's God has for buda. If buda were to accept what your God seems to be saying, buda's God would be very very annoyed at buda's stupidity. And buda's God has only one punishment for buda if buda is stupid. buda would be thrown into hell!

To those whom less is given, less is demanded. Much more is demanded from buda!

there is no contradiction, if you love God you would keep his comandments and that includes loving your neigbour.
God has the same law for every body. If anyone breaks God's law the punishment is death ( eternal damnation).
God doesn't wanna destroy Buda but wants you to make a choice by making a choice to either accept the gift of eternal life by Jesus or continue to struggle for it on your own.
No man can ever claim to love God, a though men can do good works every now and then but, that is not what it means to love God.
accepting eternal life by Jesus Christmas will also mean you are accepting the love of God and friend it would transform you.

solite3:
there is no contradiction, if you love God you would keep his comandments and that includes loving your neigbour.

And if you had bothered to read the thread from the start, you would read where I stated that if one obeys God's commandments, which is, loving one's neighbours, one loves God. This lesson was clearly taught in the parable of the Good Samaritan, unless you are not aware that the Levite and the Priest thought going to worship their God was more pleasing to God than helping their robbed and beaten neighbour.

Please do not make the error of thinking whatever God told you is what it tells everyone else. Some may have worse, or better, ears to hear and eyes to see than your's. It is specifically said that in as much as buda has done for those here on earth whom buda sees, it, buda's God, who is not seen, is being done for.

Buda's God does not require any more worshipping from buda than that, and as buda has stated in this thread. But when it does, it would get off it's Almighty ass and come and inform buda itself.

You might understand better if it were preached to you by a non-atheist. So read it here.