Traditional Muslims say; there is Islamophobia in the west, the Western governments are enemies of Islam and Muslims, their society is full of corruptions like gay marriage, nudity, porn, alcohol, usury and fornication. OK, I get it.

But why are you still there, in the land of the infidels? Why are you not planning to emigrate to Muslim countries? Why will a Muslim who's been living in Iran decide to relocate to USA? Why will any Muslim want to be in a country, paying tax money to the government that fund so many wars in the Muslim countries; Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, Iran etc.

Do you forget the following hadith;

Narrated Jarir ibn Abdullah:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) sent an expedition to Khath'am. Some people sought protection by having recourse to prostration, and were hastily killed. When the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) heard that, he ordered half the blood-wit to be paid for them, saying: I am not responsible for any Muslim who stays among polytheists. They asked: Why, Apostle of Allah? He said: Their fires should not be visible to one another. Abu Dawud 2645

Some Muslims find every excuse to nullify this hadith. But look at the big picture; If you live in these countries, you have to pay tax, where do you think part of your tax money goes....? The military. The military that covertly finance terrorists like Hamas, Syrian rebels. The military that supports Israeli occupation.

When you live in such countries, you're offering your skills and expertise in developing their economies, thereby empowering them further beyond Muslim countries. You're empowering countries that allow what your religion has forbidden and sometimes disallow what your religion enjoins.

If anything, Trump's ban is helping traditional Muslims.

It is no longer the case of muslims anymore because there are citizens of these western countries who are muslims both converts and natural born muslims. This makes the hadith obsolete bcus islam is universal. At least this is my interpretation that you can agree with. These muslim citizens of these countries pay tax too. Therefore, the hadith may not apply to them after all since they have to abide by law of the land or go to jail if they fail to pay taxes. As for Trump's decision, that's politically motivated.

You would recall during his election campaign he was accusing Saudi of evil. But the moment he was elected, he changed his position to Iran. Surprisingly, Saudi is not among 7 muslim countries he banned. Goes to show you he was politically motivated. So this is not muslim issue. It is worldwide issue that folks migrate back and forth. May I also tell you that there are Americans who left the country for decades to another countries for "better life". They wanna enjoy their wealth outside western hemisphere.

Empiree:
It is no longer the case of muslims anymore because there are citizens of these western countries who are muslims both converts and natural born muslims. This makes the hadith obsolete bcus islam is universal. At least this is my interpretation that you can agree with.

But.....how? Until the fall of the last Muslim caliphate. It was makroh for a Muslim to permanently migrate from Muslim land to non-Muslim land. If you are a convert to Islam in non-Muslim land, you're highly recommended to emigrate to Muslim land.

Today, when you have a non-Muslim country at war with Muslims, do you really think it's fair to live in such country permanently? Do you really think it's fair to the victims of the war in the middle east?

If you live in the west, you probably cannot judge this objectively. But unless you move out, you are contributing to the suffering of Palestinians, Syrians, Afghans, Yemenis and Iraqis. You are also guilty of supporting oppresive tyrants in the middle east with your money and labour.

Lastly, what do you think of Muslims living in Israel? This is also OK?

usermane:


But.....how? Until the fall of the last Muslim caliphate. It was makroh for a Muslim to permanently migrate from Muslim land to non-Muslim land. If you are a convert to Islam in non-Muslim land, you're highly recommended to emigrate to Muslim land.

This makes sense to you?. Imagine someone who is American citizen by birth. His entire family is there. Let's say African American who doesn't have immediate family in Africa beyond slave trade stories, and he is the only muslim convert in his family and you expect him to migrate to Africa or muslim country permanently and leave his family?. Islam values family, even if they are non-muslim. You know that. Imagine telling a Nigerian christian to reside permanently in Israel just because Jesus was born there?. You think this makes sense?

Today, when you have a non-Muslim country at war with Muslims, do you really think it's fair to live in such country permanently? Do you really think it's fair to the victims of the war in the middle east?

These current muslim leaders, MOST, are compromised and left their people vulnerable.

If you live in the west, you probably cannot judge this objectively. But unless you move out, you are contributing to the suffering of Palestinians, Syrians, Afghans, Yemenis and Iraqis. You are also guilty of supporting oppresive tyrants in the middle east with your money and labour.

Yes, i understand what you mean. What should they do when their own leaders overtly and covertly are in support of the same people waging war on them?. Mind you there are muslims and non-muslims who oppose the govt and would refuse to pay taxes. They are jailed, released, jailed, released and over and over again.

Lastly, what do you think of Muslims living in Israel? This is also OK?

Israel is a controversial land. Muslims lived there prior to establishment of Israel. Large number of them were forced out due to land grab. Even those in Ramallah and gaza are squeezed due to israeli settlers. So you can not cite this as a case study.

The hadith was valid those days since Islam was not as yet spread to western hemisphere that time. This is part of Islam i was telling you evolves with time. Not a hadith that talks about sun and the moon etc. Maybe in the future this hadith may be active. For now, it is redundant. It is not ayah of Quran.

This is my opinion

Empiree:
This makes sense to you?. Imagine someone who is American citizen by birth. His entire family is there. Let's say African American who doesn't have immediate family in Africa beyond slave trade stories, and he is the only muslim convert in his family and you expect him to migrate to Africa or muslim country permanently and leave his family?. Islam values family, even if they are non-muslim. You know that. Imagine telling a Nigerian christian to reside permanently in Israel just because Jesus was born there?. You think this makes sense?

Man, you're unbelievable. What happened to putting truth and justice over self, family & friends?

These current muslim leaders, MOST, are compromised and left their people vulnerable.

Then let the people dethrone them. Start a revolution. It's better to remain and fix the problem than leave the problem.

Mind you there are muslims and non-muslims who oppose the govt and would refuse to pay taxes. They are jailed, released, jailed, released and over and over again.

Tax evasion is not the answer. We know the answer, but surprisingly, no one mentions it. We have imams cursing the west day in day out, and yet they will not admit it is wrong to live there and pay tax and develope the economy. This is insanity.

Israel is a controversial land. Muslims lived there prior to establishment of Israel. Large number of them were forced out due to land grab. Even those in Ramallah and gaza are squeezed due to israeli settlers. So you can not cite this as a case study.

You need to wake up. It's not just about occupation or dispossesion, it's about contributing to Israel war crimes with tax money, it's about contributing to Israel's economy.

The hadith was valid those days since Islam was not as yet spread to western hemisphere that time. This is part of Islam i was telling you evolves with time. Not a hadith that talks about sun and the moon etc. Maybe in the future this hadith may be active. For now, it is redundant. It is not ayah of Quran.

This is my opinion

You keep saying this? I did not say Islam is limited to one region, but as Muslim you need to develope your home first. If you cannot persevere in Muslim country, you can reside in non Muslim countries outside USA and Western Europe that do not fund wars against innocent people.

The only Muslims who may be excused in the short term for still living in Western Europe or US are the converts. All the rest Muslim there, the immigrants and children of immigrants needlessly have some blood in their hands.

Do you think that the Muslim terrorists are happy with you, a Muslim permanently residing in the West? Do you think they'll feel any remorse if a western Muslim get caught in their bomb blast?

usermane:


Man, you're unbelievable. What happened to putting truth and justice over self, family & friends?



Then let the people dethrone them. Start a revolution. It's better to remain and fix the problem than leave the problem.



Tax evasion is not the answer. We know the answer, but surprisingly, no one mentions it. We have imams cursing the west day in day out, and yet they will not admit it is wrong to live there and pay tax and develope the economy. This is insanity.



You need to wake up. It's not just about occupation or dispossesion, it's about contributing to Israel war crimes with tax money, it's about contributing to Israel's economy.



You keep saying this? I did not say Islam is limited to one region, but as Muslim you need to develope your home first. If you cannot persevere in Muslim country, you can reside in non Muslim countries outside USA and Western Europe that do not fund wars against innocent people.

The only Muslims who may be excused in the short term for still living in Western Europe or US are the converts. All the rest Muslim there, the immigrants and children of immigrants needlessly have some blood in their hands.

Do you think that the Muslim terrorists are happy with you, a Muslim permanently residing in the West? Do you think they'll feel any remorse if a western Muslim get caught in their bomb blast?

what happened to Arab spring they had?. We still seeing what's going on 7 years later.. Maybe you should take Nigeria for instance. Did the people have revolution despite hardship they got through?. No. It is just gonna lead from one death to another and nothing positive achieved afterwards.


Same applies to Muslim world. They don't own themselves. Their govt and foreign govt own them. The moment you try to overthrow them, and they are allies of the west, the west will protect their allies. Why do you think they stationed foreign army in the ME and now being extended to Africa?. This is meant to defend their allies. Govt sure knows how to distract revolution. It is so easy for them. They simply plant their agents amongst you and that's the end of it, even if it peaceful protest. So get over this. The world has evolved. As for muslims living in Israel, eventually both Gaza and the other side too will be absorbed by Israel. Those who will die will in the process which is what we are seeing. Those who will flee will in the process. So I don't blame them. You can lead revolution front. It is not too late at all.