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Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 8:13pm On Apr 20, 2009 |
Negro_Ntns: It sounds impressive, but I cannot really say that I understand it. 1 Like |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by KunleOshob(m): 11:30am On Apr 21, 2009 |
Negro_Ntns: The above highlighted statement is quite intriguing and i personally find some truth in it, in fact someone using biblical analogy here on nairaland came to the same conclusion on this thread : https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-137608.0.html i think you guys should check it out and lets have your comments. @Negro Your IFA knowledge seems quite advanced, are you an IFA faithful? |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 4:42pm On Apr 21, 2009 |
Your IFA knowledge seems quite advanced, are you an IFA faithful? KO, No, I'm not advanced in IFA knowledge but thanks for the comments. I am not sure that I want to call myself a faithful. I believe in the dymanism of life and the ability to transform and grow with knowledge and information. What you see is a show of interest in IFA than I have ever been before. Few months ago, I asked an open question - is there any relativity between IFA and information technology, both have a binary element and operate on the same number base. The question led me into places and things I never knew existed and as a result have seen things that I would not otherwise have wished to see. I have always had the knowledge about life and the universe but this new discovery in IFA has enlightened me about life and the universe. As my understanding improves I may very well become a faithful. Life is a constant change, it should never be restrained from the need to expand. 1 Like |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by annyplenty(m): 4:51pm On Apr 21, 2009 |
ifa - indigenous faith of africa 1 Like |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 4:57pm On Apr 21, 2009 |
IFA - International Forum for Advancement. or Instrument For Advancement or Intelligence From Above |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by annyplenty(m): 5:33pm On Apr 21, 2009 |
Pastor AIO: SECONDED |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by KunleOshob(m): 11:05am On Apr 22, 2009 |
@Negro nts Are you sure of all this your submissions that IFA was used to solve quantum physics equations? and that it is also being used by NASA scientists? It sounds to ridiculous to be true. Is the IFA concept really that advanced? If it is true how come IFA adherents are not leading lights in technological and scientific advancements? How come we don't have leading scientists all over the world studying IFA? Negro_Ntns: I seem to have an interest in the knowledge of IFA as well, could you recommend some websites/ books which could enlighten me further? |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by xTheorist(m): 6:01pm On May 05, 2009 |
Dang! Negro, is this what you do now, teach Ifa? You are hard to find here. Anyway someone said to tell you hello. I forgot his name now, spent so much time searching for you. This guy was in Foreign Politics. Email me sometime. What's KR upto lately, did you see that Stanford dude engage CR on torture? She need a vacation to refresh, dont you think? |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 7:35pm On May 06, 2009 |
Are you sure of all this your submissions that IFA was used to solve quantum physics equations? and that it is also being used by NASA scientists? It sounds to ridiculous to be true. Is the IFA concept really that advanced? If it is true how come IFA adherents are not leading lights in technological and scientific advancements? How come we don't have leading scientists all over the world studying IFA? Africa has diamond but how many Africans are in the global diamond business? Nigeria has oil but how many of us own wells. Nigeria is the leading cocoa producer in the world but why are we not in chocolate and candy productions? Your observation is very valid and leads to questions that lead possibly into innovating ideas on originality and creativity on the continent. 3 Likes |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by KunleOshob(m): 1:25pm On May 07, 2009 |
Negro_Ntns: Well in my opinion there is no correlation between IFA and physics talkless of quantum physics which leading scientist are yet to fully understand and embrace. IFA as to do with the spiritual through divination whilst quantum physics deals with the physical. What is the relation here if any? |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 4:23am On May 09, 2009 |
KO, On the other side of physical, you have metaphysical. This will be like comparing conscious activities to unconscious ones. For example, in conscious activity you can exercise willpower to activate your mechanical mobility. In unconscious activity you can walk or run or climb but your physical body is in no way involved in the activities because it remains mechanically motionless. This is the case when you are awake versus when you are asleep and you have a dream of running after someone or someone running after you. You are the primary driver when you are awake, your spirit is the principal driver when you are asleep. You have two different states of interaction experienced by the same individual. We believe in the power of Ifa as a divine decree and the practitioners did not exploit or seek to extract its material value, probably because in the wisdom of our fore fathers, doing that might introduce greed that will then lead to impropriety amongst mankind. Physical sciences on the other hand and in its applications is an avenue for acquisition and hoarding of material knowledge and wealth to the disadvanatage and sometimes elimination of a competitive opponent. Ifa practitioners view themselves as custodians of universal power and this duty carry responsibilities that may not align well with the interest to destroy or harm mankind. Quantum physics is a race for advantageous hand and does not concern itself with a divine code of honor. |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 1:49pm On May 09, 2009 |
Negro_Ntns: I think that you have an overly lofty opinion of our forefathers and Ifa practitioners. Greed needs no introduction to african societies, present and ancient. In fact Greed is very much at home and a familiar guest with our ancestors. How else do you explain 400 years of transatlantic slavery, and 1000 years of trans-saharan slavery? I believe that Ifa would be related to physics to the extent that physics is a part of the functioning of the world and Ifa philosophy encompasses and concerns itself with the World, both spiritual aspects and material. |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 3:34am On May 10, 2009 |
Pastor, I am sure you have read about Homer. The myth sorrounding Homer is deeply ingrained in European classics. Yet when you read his series or watch the plays you will instantly recognize that there are institutions in Europe that protect the history of their classic arts and mythological figures. They have woven what is grandeur and noble about their ancestry and sold it to the world as civilization. Unfortunately Africans do not have that. I am not one to herald the errors of my ancestors. I cherish their memories and wish to promote it as a lofty and noble ending, however way progeny chooses to judge them; and because I am an ideologue, I choose instead to find fault and flaws in the history and myths of Shakespeare, Homer, Van Gogh, and the rest of those falsehoods sold to us as civilization and path to salvation. 3 Likes |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by ThiefOfHearts(f): 4:00am On May 10, 2009 |
wetin Van Gogh do you |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 4:04am On May 10, 2009 |
Lmao, VG is a fraud, a piece of watercolor going for $1million! That's some fuckery!! Whats going on with my sweetie tonight? Such a vivrant thang, Muah! |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by ThiefOfHearts(f): 12:55am On May 11, 2009 |
Cut your own ear off and maybe you'll be worth that much |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 1:53am On May 11, 2009 |
Oh, TOH, , You need Jesus! lol. |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 11:11am On May 11, 2009 |
Negro_Ntns: I lay claim to the entire heritage of Human culture and creativity. I don't care whether it is Chinese, European, African or South american aborigines. They all have something to teach me and I embrace it all. One of the biggest problems with Africa and africans is our inability to make objective self criticisms. To much kowtowing to ancestral this and ancestral that. When you place these things above criticism you destroy them or render them useless eventually. I'm sick and tired of hearing about 'How Europe Underdeveloped Africa'. Are africans so stupid that someone is going to come from outside to underdevelop them? Why didn't Europe underdevelop China or India, if Europeans are such destructive people? I've brought this point up several times but no one's taken the bait, but I'll repeat it again. I don't think Africa is going to develop anywhere until there has been a proper symposium to discuss Why the Slave Trade Occurred in the first place. It is important to bear in mind that the slave trade has been going on before the Europeans came to africa by boat. We were selling ourselves to the Arabs en masse for centuries. Until a proper study has been made of this historical phenomenon, I don't think africa is going anywhere, but backwards, no matter how much you talk it up with claims about quantum mechanics or whatnot. |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 4:19am On May 12, 2009 |
I lay claim to the entire heritage of Human culture and creativity. I don't care whether it is Chinese, European, African or South american aborigines. They all have something to teach me and I embrace it all. I do too, I embrace the universal brotherhood but I know where and when to draw the boundary. One of the biggest problems with Africa and africans is our inability to make objective self criticisms. To much kowtowing to ancestral this and ancestral that. When you place these things above criticism you destroy them or render them useless eventually. Europeans do not see the world the way the rest of the ethnic groups of mankind do. Europeans consider themselves the dominant race and everyone else must bow to their whims. If you don't they put a label on you and seek a way for your elimination. You will yield or you will be eliminated. It is evident throughout history, it is evident now and if you read the policies they are formulating into the future it is very obvious that they intend to continue this practice of exploitation and dominance. They did to India what they did to Africa except they did not ship their people onto a foreign continent as slaves. I've brought this point up several times but no one's taken the bait, but I'll repeat it again. I don't think Africa is going to develop anywhere until there has been a proper symposium to discuss Why the Slave Trade Occurred in the first place. It is important to bear in mind that the slave trade has been going on before the Europeans came to africa by boat. We were selling ourselves to the Arabs en masse for centuries. Until a proper study has been made of this historical phenomenon, I don't think africa is going anywhere, but backwards, no matter how much you talk it up with claims about quantum mechanics or whatnot. I am willing to take the discussion up with you. We should not call what the Europeans did slavery, a new name should be found to define the horror. I know it has historically been referred to as slavery, but no, it is far worse. They did not start slavery but they joined in and totally lost their mind and sensibilities and committed atrocities that the slavery institution under the customs of the African traders would never have allowed. Africa's progress is not contingent upon the study of slavery but rather on a change of philosophy. We practice religions that are completely un-natural to us, we speak and communicate in languages that lack spiritual rhythym with our nature, Arts is a natural endowment, when a people abandon their natural endowment then their nature is lost to them. All the people colonized by England have returned to their indigenous tongues and spiritual worship except Africa and probably Latin America and Mexico, these are the same people and places where third world mentality is still prominent. The Indians, the Arabs, these people are regarded with respect today and considered as technological or financial partners by the Europeans that colonized them centuries ago. Look at Israel and their situation, who should they truly be upset with, Arabs or Europeans? The Arabs have not killed one third as many claimed to have been slaughtered in Germany. So, yes I believe in universal brotherhood and I understand the history of slavery in ways that many people do not and because of my understanding and enlightenement in this area, , I have choosen to embrace my ancestry and heritage above that of a race of people that seek to destroy me in the name of democracy. Don't carp on me for loving my heritage, without it I won't be who I am. Let me know when you are ready for discussion on slavery, open a topic and we get it rolling. 2 Likes |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 7:44pm On May 13, 2009 |
Negro_Ntns: Where and when do you draw the boundary? It would help if you gave me an example. Negro_Ntns: I don't know about that. . . They practiced slavery in India too and shipped them to a different land, only they called it a different name. They called it Indentured Labour. Why do you think that there are so many Indian looking, and chinese looking, Jamaicans? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_indenture_system - Today China is slowly colonising Africa. It is only a matter of time with the rate they are buying up everything. The point I'm trying to make is that it is not due to European wickedness. An idiot that comes into money is only going to attract a whole load of sharks. And when China is done another people will come and do the same. Why not? Considering how stoopid africans are, who in their right mind won't take advantage. so China and India were subjected to slavery too, not to mention atrocities like the Opium war, but today they are mighty global powers. I don't see that turn around happening in Africa though. Negro_Ntns: No, I do not think that African ancestor's gave a damn about what happened to slaves or any such atrocities. They probably even encouraged the white man to be more oppressive. All one has to do is look at the record. Even today, look at how the leaders have no care for the people. This, it seems, is typical of africa. Could it be a congenital trait? I recall scandals where politicians allowed foreign nuclear fuel companies to dump their toxic wastes on africa soil, where people are living. Look at the rape of the Niger Delta. And these scandals are usually exposed by the White people, spoiling the show for the Africans that were benefiting from it. You know that most of the resistance to the abolition of slavery came from african chiefs who were making their living from the slave trade. The religion you practice won't make a difference. The religion is just an expression of the contents of your heart in the first place. If your heart is Black then your religion will be Black too. If your heart is full of canker then your religion will be full of canker. Negro_Ntns: I'm not saying that you should not love your heritage. I am saying that you do not need to embellish it with talk of quantum physics just because it sounds impressive. Such an attitude seems to belies a deeper insecurity, or maybe even inferiority complex. It sounds as if you are compensating by making Ifa out to be quantum mechanics. I think it is important that Ifa stands or falls on it's own terms. It doesn't need to be pegged to science via such an extreme contrivance. I think it is important to take the Truth however you find, bitter or sweet. If Ifa is Rubbish then let us accept that it is rubbish, but if there is any good stuff in it then let us accept that to. It is not because it is what our ancestors followed that we must accept it whether right or wrong. p.s those guys you quoted, Awo Fatunbi is a white man. |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 5:07am On May 19, 2009 |
Where and when do you draw the boundary? It would help if you gave me an example. What good does that do beside stretching this argument further away from the topic? Leave that alone! As I said, discussions on slavery should be discussed as a separate topic. I will respond to your counter on Ifa and Physics. I'm not saying that you should not love your heritage. I am saying that you do not need to embellish it with talk of quantum physics just because it sounds impressive. Such an attitude seems to belies a deeper insecurity, or maybe even inferiority complex. It sounds as if you are compensating by making Ifa out to be quantum mechanics. 1. You missed the point in my reference of quantum physics to Ifa. The best you could have done is seek clarity than to assume and explode with an accusation. Where is the embellishment, can you please pinpoint? 2. You have ruled that my attitude is synonymous with a state of complex. Who enthrones you as the judge, who crowned your head? 3. What is extreme in stating that Ifa is the metaphysical state for much of the physical theories outlined in the quantum equation? Please pinpoint the extremity that you see. 4. What is our reason for accepting Christianity and Islam? Is it because we believe it is right? I suspect that you are offended by something I said somewhere in my responses and references. I don't know what it is that offended you. Talk to me directly about it and stop these projectiles of accusations and false judgements about me or my views. |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by KunleOshob(m): 10:47am On May 19, 2009 |
@Pastor AIO& Negro nts You guys are derailing this thread, i had hoped to learn a lot about IFA from this thread so please keep the knowledge flowing. @Negro nts Could you be more specific in your analogies explaining IFA principles applicable to quantum physics? I do understand there could be some correlation but i would appreciate if you were more specific the "metaphysics" analogy was not clear enough. |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 1:55pm On May 19, 2009 |
Negro_Ntns: I am not offended. I guess I worded my previous post rather strongly, but it was not out of offense. Perhaps I was also putting on you a trend that I noticed elsewhere that other people get into. Like certain pro-african white hating guys I've met in the past that always quote white people when they want to sound intelligent or validate themselves. They never get the irony of it. For instance there are some guys I've known in the past that always go on about a german guy called Frobenius who thought that Ile Ife was the lost city of Atlantis. Like if they need validation there is nothing better than a white guys validation, even some dodgy white archaeologist from the victorian age. Now, I'm not saying that that is you but I might have been reacting to my memory of such people when I responded to your post. Let me answer your number points point by point. 1. To be honest I don't know that much about quantum physics, I've read a few popular science books and that's about it. But I couldn't understand the correlations you were trying to make between Ifa and quantum mechanics. I also tend to find a lot of contrivance in the works or Awo Fatunmbi (a white guy) when talking about ifa. But perhaps the proper thing that I should have done is ask you to elucidate what you meant. 2. No one made me a judge. I apologise for coming across like that. Like I said before I was also partly referring to certain others that I've met before that seem to have a deep seated complex. I sorry for projecting that onto you. 3. The problem is not so much about extremity as unintelligibility. I don't see how you map the correlation between quantum mechanics and Ifa. I also don't understand what you mean when you make the distinction between physical and metaphysic. Could you please explain what you mean by these terms? 4. As regards christianity and Islam and our accepting it, the reasons are complex, but rarely is it because we believe that they are right. Again acceptance of these religions might have a lot to do with an inferiority complex. Yet the inferiority complex may come after the religion has been accepted so it is not the cause but a product of it. Originally, our ancestors accepting these religions may have been socio-economic. Remember that most of the most lucrative trade was with the arab world and with europe. Joining their religion was like gaining entry into a club. Europeans traded through converted africans and so did the arabs so the converted africans got their cut as the middle men in the trades. ( that is my perception of the matter). KunleOshob: Sorry! |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 2:22pm On May 19, 2009 |
Let us look at the major Odu Ifa one by one and those of us that know anything about Ifa can discuss what we know and those that have any questions can ask questions. Starting with Eji Ogbe. Eji Ogbe is when you have Ogbe on the right side and Ogbe on the left side too. This Odu tells how Ori came to be the ruler of all the orisha. The person for whom this Odu is cast is told not to be a lone ranger but to seek partnership. The wife of this person will be the source of fortunes. Never disrespect the wife. In this Odu Ifa declares that he saves in couples. Eji ni mo gbe, mi o gbe enikan (I save couples I don't save individuals). Despite a strong sense of destiny the querent has to recognise other forces in order to fulfill the destiny. |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by annyplenty(m): 8:41pm On May 19, 2009 |
EJI OGBE this is the first chapter of the IFA chapters. it tells alot about how Olodumare created the universe from Ifa's perspective. It also tells alot about Orunmila and his assignment to human beings. eji-ogbe is generally regarded as the father of other chapters. It also says alot about destiny and also emphasizes the roles of wifes on husbands success' or failures and also mentions children as being important. |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by Krayola(m): 10:26pm On May 19, 2009 |
wow!!! pastor and negro_nuts, I dey gbadun ur posts like a mora foka. Please go on |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by Krayola(m): 10:58pm On May 19, 2009 |
I just read the whole thread and this stuff blows my mind. I wish I paid more attention in Yoruba class when they were teaching us all this stuff I'm currently a religious studies major and in my final year, and nothing i have learned is as rich as this stuff. Is there a website or book I can read where I can learn about this from the scratch? As in , I don't even know what orisha, odu, and all that mean, and i really really want to. I can speak and read yoruba so even if it is in yoruba it does not matter. Thank you. |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 3:58pm On May 20, 2009 |
wow!!! pastor and negro_nuts, I dey gbadun ur posts like a mora foka. Please go on Lmao! Please don't do that. I admire and respect Pastor. He is very insightful and wise, one of few that I will say that much about in NL. If you thought that was a sensational exchange you are wrong, so if you are seeking entertainment I suggestyou tune to another channel. Anything in my response to him, no matter how unbrotherly it may sound is nothing at all compared to my signature exchange when engaged with foolish and ignorant minds, and there are plenty of those here as well. ________________________________________________ Pastor, Thanks for clarification. I better understand your position and it is not at all too far from mine. I have low tolerance for backward facing mules, oh, much worse, ass! I have followed your writing for quite sometime and I can relate with the way you see things. You might not with mine! There is a reason. I have a habit of taking a current event and projecting it into a distant future, attached with a multiplier, to see what the cost and impact might be if it was acted/not-acted upon today. In six sigma principles, it is called design of experiments. So for this reason most people mis-understand my intent or goal. I have had a couple of people that are similarly wired as myself and they understand precisely what I am talking about. We are different and I understand that it can be frustrating to be forced to shift the mind into imaginaries that are far ahead of the mundane reality. I encourage people to ask me for clarity. I stop, backtrack and explain it the best I can to the current reality. I have taken the following out of a manuscript I wrote in 2004, it is the last page of the first volume. Reading this you will better appreciate what I stand for. I put it in quotations for easy reading. Treasures! The black race is very wealthy but we are less interested in our treasures and the numerous benefits inherent in our natural endowments than we are to be accepted and approved as a civilized and developed people. We seek approval, we look towards non-Africans to validate our status in the race for evolution. The people whose language we speak and whose religion we claim responded simply by encouraging our ignorance in the quest for a pseudo-philosophy. Unfortunate for us, we blindly associate idealism and high purpose to mastery of foreign language and the religion that accompany them. Academia is not Philosophy |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by Krayola(m): 4:39pm On May 20, 2009 |
Negro_Ntns: haha, I guess it came out wrong. I meant that i was learning a lot from your debate and was eager to read more, because you both have so much knowledge about this stuff. Were you raised in the tradition or did you just learn about it on your own or in school? |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 5:05pm On May 20, 2009 |
Krayola: Hi Krayola. Where do you study? Which Univ? What courses are involved in your major? I'm very curious about this now. Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb0IqZS37ag It is an indepth look into the cult of Obatala. There are numerous websites and book on Ifa and the Orisha traditions. All you have to do is google these words. For now I can give you a short Primer. Orisha: These are the dieties, or the central figures of the religious cults of the Yoruba. Orisha include Sango, Oya, Oshun, Ogun, Orunmila, Obatala etc. Odu: Odu has many different meanings in different contexts. First they are what we call the 16 basic signatures of Ifa. Each signature is a different configurations of energies and has it's own distinct nature. For example Ogbe which is mentioned above is very vibrant and full of life and inspiration. This is in contrast to Oyeku which is associated with death and water/rain. They are contrasted like fire and water are contrasted. Another meaning for Odu lies within the feminine. Odu is the Queen of all female energy. She is the wife of Orunmila, a most powerful witch. Another meaning is tied to it's feminine nature. Odu is a womb, or a container like a calabash. So all the potentialities in the world, every possibility, is contained in Odu and Odu through a process of birthing brings possibilities into actuality. Odu is sometimes considered an orisha too. Sometimes she is connected to Odudua. Odu ti o da iwa: Odu that created Being. 1 Like |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 5:07pm On May 20, 2009 |
Negro_Ntns: Brother, out of curiousity, Are you an Aquarius? |
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 5:22pm On May 20, 2009 |
Here's a story I've copied from another site about Ori. The story is found in Ejiogbe.
The Yoruba word Da has multiple meanings. It means to create. It also means to divide. And it also means to throw or to cast. So when the yoruba say Ori mi da mi re, it means Ori throw me well but it also means create me well, or mold my destiny well. When that spiritual wrestling match occurred in heaven and Ori cast all the dieties to where they belonged it is also suggesting that Ori created those dieties with their attributes. |
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