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2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili - Politics (7) - Nairaland

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Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by obailala(m): 1:50pm On Nov 05
djon78:


My friend I told you to go and look for whom to deceive. You have been spreading fake, wrong, impractical and real life unworkable things.
And that is what you and your likes have been doing to have kept this nation this way for many years by the kind of knowledge you peddle.

I stand for;

Transparency
Accountability
Doing things the right way

Because I have lived, studied, worked in well run Nations. All this your information turns my belly and nauseating
I gave you simple and verifiable facts, figures and explanations. But what I said obviously does not sit well with your preconceived notions which are driven by deep mistrust for government and just plain lack of understanding, that's why you have vehemently refused to accept a simple fact. If there's anything which isn't clear in my explanations, ask (rather than labeling me dubious or deceiver) and I will try to see if I can break it down.

1+1 will always be 2 in arithmetics, whether we like it or not, it's a law. I do not work with the Nigerian govt, I studied, worked and also live in a developed country like you and I also want the fuel prices to be cut down too. But that does not mean I should throw away simple economic knowlege to just join a crowd and blindly shout thief thief thief when I know better. Even Oby Ezekwesili who raised the question about N80 not being economically sensible is not in government; she's even contesting for presidency. But you dont expect her to throw away her knowledge of economics for the sake of politics to start saying sweet but unfeasible things Nigerians like you may want to hear.
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by lexy2014: 9:17pm On Nov 05
obailala:

Lol... Now it all makes sense, just like I thought all along, you are indeed an economic illiterate. Oga, the first thing you were taught in elementary economics is that accountants calculate profits and losses using direct/explicit cost (as you're doing now), but economists calculate profit and losses using opportunity cost.
https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/distinguish-between-accounting-cost-economic-cost-330970

If I pluck some mangos from my garden, and instead of selling them at the market, I choose to dump them in a pit, to an accountant, I have lost nothing cos I didn't buy the fruits (myopic reasoning), but to an economist, I have lost the money I would have potentially made if I sold those mangos in the market (that's looking on the big picture). My nursery 3 niece wouldn't even struggle so much to grab this simple concept.

The concept of loss does not only apply when I buy or pay for the input; that's why I termed it 'opportunity' cost.

Opportunity costs represent the benefits an individual, investor or business misses out on when choosing one alternative over another.

NNPC might choose to refine Nigerian crude and sell it cheaply. But by not choosing to sell that crude at international rate of $80, NNPC misses out (or loses) the benefit it would have made if it did.

I'm sure Oga will still come back and ask the same question about "where nnpc buys the crude from or how much cost the crude adds to the production". He still just cant figure out the meaning of opportunity cost; this is really interesting! grin

Great. Amazing stuff. Now u can still itemize d inputs that goes into d production of a litre of imported PMS as well as that of locally produced PMS. Y shouldn't I ask u about were NNPC buys its crude? What's wrong with that?
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by obailala(m): 9:30pm On Nov 05
lexy2014:
Great. Amazing stuff. Now u can still itemize d inputs that goes into d production of a litre of imported PMS as well as that of locally produced PMS. Y shouldn't I ask u about were NNPC buys its crude? What's wrong with that?
grin grin grin

Are you an economic illiterate?.... or an all round illiterate?
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by lexy2014: 9:57pm On Nov 05
obailala:
grin grin grin

Are you an economic illiterate?.... or an all round illiterate?

U tell me. Is being an illiterate a good thing or a bad thing?
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by lexy2014: 10:07pm On Nov 05
obailala:
I never said the crude would add to cost of production so stop asking for the explicit costs which the crude would add to production.

What I have said like a thousand times which you've struggled to comprehend is the 'opportunity cost', i.e. the potential money NNPC would miss out on by not selling that crude for $80. Economist do not focus on only the explicit production costs which is just the little picture (as you're presently doing), economists think the big picture, economists consider the opportunity costs of taking a particular decision over the other; Oby Ezekwesili is an economist.

Anyway, it's obvious you have learning difficulties, cos I'm pretty sure you'd return again to ask about the direct cost of the crude and how it would not add to 'explicit' production costs.

Did I say u said anything about d crude adding to costs? So u mean refining d crude will not incur any cost?

If nnpc isn't selling its crude and it is refining it, is that a loss? Is refined product not just crude in another form? After refining, will nnpc keep its refined products of PMS, gas, kerosene and diesel stored up without selling them?
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by obailala(m): 11:10pm On Nov 05
lexy2014:


Did I say u said anything about d crude adding to costs? So u mean refining d crude will not incur any cost?

If nnpc isn't selling its crude and it is refining it, is that a loss? Is refined product not just crude in another form? After refining, will nnpc keep its refined products of PMS, gas, kerosene and diesel stored up without selling them?
Lol... it's really interesting how low people can be intellectually. Talking to you is like talking to a piece of stone. See question a human is asking after my explanations? Bros, go and take your drugs.

lexy2014:


U tell me. Is being an illiterate a good thing or a bad thing?
It's a very good thing. Remain there.
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by lexy2014: 6:49am On Nov 06
obailala:
Lol... it's really interesting how low people can be intellectually. Talking to you is like talking to a piece of stone. See question a human is asking after my explanations? Bros, go and take your drugs.

It's a very good thing. Remain there.

obailala:


I never said the crude would add to cost of production so stop asking for the explicit costs which the crude would add to production.


the 'opportunity cost', i.e. the potential money NNPC would miss out on by not selling that crude for $80.

Congratulations on winning d economic literacy award, 2018. Meanwhile, according 2u, crude will not add 2d cost of production but NNPC will loose if it doesn't sell at $80. How do u reconcile that? What's wrong if I ask u about d "explicit costs"? Does ur economic literacy not extend 2 "explicit costs"?
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by obailala(m): 8:47am On Nov 06
lexy2014:




Congratulations on winning d economic literacy award, 2018. Meanwhile, according 2u, crude will not add 2d cost of production but NNPC will loose if it doesn't sell at $80. How do u reconcile that? What's wrong if I ask u about d "explicit costs"? Does ur economic literacy not extend 2 "explicit costs"?
Go and take you drugs please. Your teachers need all the accolades in the world. It must really be hard for your folks.
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by walefresh3: 9:09am On Nov 06
17Ebiscoo:
The presidential candidate of Allied Congress Party of Nigeria, ACPN, Dr. Oby Ezekwesili, has stated that the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, has exposed the ignorance of its flag bearer Atiku Abubakar, with its statement on price of fuel.

Ezekwesili said PDP’s claim that Atiku will reduce pump price of petrol to N90 only showed that the former Vice President was ignorant of the economy.

In a statement during the week, the PDP promised Nigerians that it will “crash fuel
pump price to N90,” if returned to power.

But in a statement made available to DAILY POST and signed by the National Chairman of ACPN, Gani Galadima, Ezekwesili said the main opposition party was only trying to deceive Nigerians.

The statement said, “Today, the People’s Democratic Party, PDP, reminded us of why both they and the APC are one of the same, fielding a single candidate
called #BuTiku.

“This is 419, and it betrays the PDP candidate’s ignorance of how
Basic Economics and the solutions Nigeria truly needs.

“The country ended 2018 with 4trillion of Fiscal Deficit.

“Where will they find money to slash fuel price? Even if FG had such money, is it because they want another round of Subsidy-Slush Fund that they want to take the country deeper into the corrupted and market-distorting fuel price fixing method?

“The Obiageli Ezekwesili For President 2019 campaign is all for market-determined pricing which will end up more favourable to the poor who have been and continue bearing the effect of corrupted subsidy regimes more while the rich enjoy the benefits.

“This is a reminder to Nigerians that Abubakar Atiku’s so-called and questionable business acumen does not qualify him to run this economy. Obiageli Ezekwesili is the only candidate in the race who has built and rebuilt national economies in Nigeria and outside, with a track record to show for it.”

https://www.mcebisco.com.ng/2018/11/2019-presidency-how-pdp-exposed-atikus.html
https://www.facebook.com/100013263522694/posts/572807349838044/pls fellow nairalander click this link and see how obasanjo bombarded atiku.
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by lexy2014: 4:09pm On Nov 06
obailala:
Go and take you drugs please. Your teachers need all the accolades in the world. It must really be hard for your folks.

There's something I have noticed on this platform. When some folks run out of things 2 say, they embark on personal attacks. U made a contradiction in ur post which I brought 2 ur attention. u say Nigeria will loose money if it doesn't sell crude at $80 yet u say crude doesn't add 2d cost of production of PMS. How do u reconcile both statements?

I no u are a man of immense economic literacy, one who sees d big picture. Seeing d big picture could also b said 2 mean "birds eye view". So whether u are in a plane or u flying a drone or u are d bird itself, u can c far&wide. U can c d roof tops, d cars driving on d road and d trees. D question is do u from ur birds eye view c what's going on under d roofs, inside d cars and on d trees? I don't think so. That's where d earthworms view comes in. A view that is closer 2d ground, that sees d little little details.

Let's look at ur previous analysis:


"A barrel of crude is equivalent to 160litres. If we assume that we can convert the full 160 litres of crude to petrol, the maximum we can get from a barrel is therefore 160litres of petrol (take note, this is only an assumption cos we cant really derive up to 160litres from a barrel as there will always be other derivatives and bye products). But assuming we can get up to the full 160 litres of petrol from an $80 barrel of crude, that come out to about N150/litre."

D question I ask is y d assumptions? What is d fact? U dont need 2 assume d facts except u want 2 distort d truth which u were trying 2do. D fact is that u can get more than one product from a barrel of crude. In this part of d world, we are very familiar with 4 of those products, DPK, AGO, PMS and gas. And if this is d case, a litre of PMS cannot b N150. Based on what u said above, in order to get d price per litre of each derivative it is N150 divided by N. N being d number of derivatives. So 150 divided by 4 is N37.50k. So Atiku was right. PMS can b sold 4 N80 in Nigeria.

This is what djon78 was trying 2 say that u were twisting info. Cos here u have facts at ur disposal, right b4 u, but u chose 2 call d facts assumptions. This y u have been very defensive whenever I throw 2u d issue of what u called "explicit costs". In response to my request to u to let us no what goes into d production of PMS locally and imported PMS, u have at best resorted 2 petty personal attacks & tried 2 shroud d discussion with ur "opportunity cost".

Since u c d "big picture" as a world class economist, I was expecting u 2 unbundle ur big picture. What makes up ur big picture. PMS is a product and like every product, input goes into its a creation. So y are u scared of attempting 2 itemise what inputs these are and their costs? I believe d facts speak 4 themselves and they have spoken
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by obailala(m): 6:22pm On Nov 06
lexy2014:


There's something I have noticed on this platform. When some folks run out of things 2 say, they embark on personal attacks. U made a contradiction in ur post which I brought 2 ur attention. u say Nigeria will loose money if it doesn't sell crude at $80 yet u say crude doesn't add 2d cost of production of PMS. How do u reconcile both statements?

I no u are a man of immense economic literacy, one who sees d big picture. Seeing d big picture could also b said 2 mean "birds eye view". So whether u are in a plane or u flying a drone or u are d bird itself, u can c far&wide. U can c d roof tops, d cars driving on d road and d trees. D question is do u from ur birds eye view c what's going on under d roofs, inside d cars and on d trees? I don't think so. That's where d earthworms view comes in. A view that is closer 2d ground, that sees d little little details.

Let's look at ur previous analysis:


"A barrel of crude is equivalent to 160litres. If we assume that we can convert the full 160 litres of crude to petrol, the maximum we can get from a barrel is therefore 160litres of petrol (take note, this is only an assumption cos we cant really derive up to 160litres from a barrel as there will always be other derivatives and bye products). But assuming we can get up to the full 160 litres of petrol from an $80 barrel of crude, that come out to about N150/litre."

D question I ask is y d assumptions? What is d fact? U dont need 2 assume d facts except u want 2 distort d truth which u were trying 2do. D fact is that u can get more than one product from a barrel of crude. In this part of d world, we are very familiar with 4 of those products, DPK, AGO, PMS and gas. And if this is d case, a litre of PMS cannot b N150. Based on what u said above, in order to get d price per litre of each derivative it is N150 divided by N. N being d number of derivatives. So 150 divided by 4 is N37.50k. So Atiku was right. PMS can b sold 4 N80 in Nigeria.

This is what djon78 was trying 2 say that u were twisting info. Cos here u have facts at ur disposal, right b4 u, but u chose 2 call d facts assumptions. This y u have been very defensive whenever I throw 2u d issue of what u called "explicit costs". In response to my request to u to let us no what goes into d production of PMS locally and imported PMS, u have at best resorted 2 petty personal attacks & tried 2 shroud d discussion with ur "opportunity cost".

Since u c d "big picture" as a world class economist, I was expecting u 2 unbundle ur big picture. What makes up ur big picture. PMS is a product and like every product, input goes into its a creation. So y are u scared of attempting 2 itemise what inputs these are and their costs? I believe d facts speak 4 themselves and they have spoken

It is not my fault you do not know how to read or comprehend simple English. I cannot continue to repeat the same sentence to a person like a hundred times as if I'm talking to a piece of stone; all for him to come back and turn my statement upstide down and then start repeating his same question. I do not believe you are autistic or have learning disabilities, I also do not want to believe you are on some kind of hard drug that impairs judgement and makes you forget things. I just believe you're deliberately being mischievous and feigning ignorance.

I've spent 4 days telling the same person the very same thing like a hundred times. I specifically told you that the $80 is not a part of the production cost, but rather, it is an is an 'opportunity cost'; i.e. the money Nigeria will not make if it goes ahead to refine and sell cheaply instead of selling the crude internationally.

But just look at what he's saying above?.. that I made a contradiction by saying the $80 was part of production cost? undecided tufiakwa!

Oga if you are on hard drugs, QUIT. If you aren't on hard drugs, then go see your doctor. But please before you quote me again, go and first read my previous responses in the past 4 days, if you dont still get the point, then please let me be; I give up, You win! Atiku or anyone can make petrol sell for N80 without any economic implication. You win! You win!
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by djon78: 7:16pm On Nov 06
lexy2014:


There's something I have noticed on this platform. When some folks run out of things 2 say, they embark on personal attacks. U made a contradiction in ur post which I brought 2 ur attention. u say Nigeria will loose money if it doesn't sell crude at $80 yet u say crude doesn't add 2d cost of production of PMS. How do u reconcile both statements?

I no u are a man of immense economic literacy, one who sees d big picture. Seeing d big picture could also b said 2 mean "birds eye view". So whether u are in a plane or u flying a drone or u are d bird itself, u can c far&wide. U can c d roof tops, d cars driving on d road and d trees. D question is do u from ur birds eye view c what's going on under d roofs, inside d cars and on d trees? I don't think so. That's where d earthworms view comes in. A view that is closer 2d ground, that sees d little little details.

Let's look at ur previous analysis:


"A barrel of crude is equivalent to 160litres. If we assume that we can convert the full 160 litres of crude to petrol, the maximum we can get from a barrel is therefore 160litres of petrol (take note, this is only an assumption cos we cant really derive up to 160litres from a barrel as there will always be other derivatives and bye products). But assuming we can get up to the full 160 litres of petrol from an $80 barrel of crude, that come out to about N150/litre."

D question I ask is y d assumptions? What is d fact? U dont need 2 assume d facts except u want 2 distort d truth which u were trying 2do. D fact is that u can get more than one product from a barrel of crude. In this part of d world, we are very familiar with 4 of those products, DPK, AGO, PMS and gas. And if this is d case, a litre of PMS cannot b N150. Based on what u said above, in order to get d price per litre of each derivative it is N150 divided by N. N being d number of derivatives. So 150 divided by 4 is N37.50k. So Atiku was right. PMS can b sold 4 N80 in Nigeria.

This is what djon78 was trying 2 say that u were twisting info. Cos here u have facts at ur disposal, right b4 u, but u chose 2 call d facts assumptions. This y u have been very defensive whenever I throw 2u d issue of what u called "explicit costs". In response to my request to u to let us no what goes into d production of PMS locally and imported PMS, u have at best resorted 2 petty personal attacks & tried 2 shroud d discussion with ur "opportunity cost".

Since u c d "big picture" as a world class economist, I was expecting u 2 unbundle ur big picture. What makes up ur big picture. PMS is a product and like every product, input goes into its a creation. So y are u scared of attempting 2 itemise what inputs these are and their costs? I believe d facts speak 4 themselves and they have spoken


Bro you really get time.
How can you be discussing with someone that doesn't even understand what he himself is saying.
You want to be smeared with ignorance?
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by lexy2014: 8:40pm On Nov 06
obailala:

It is not my fault you do not know how to read or comprehend simple English. I cannot continue to repeat the same sentence to a person like a hundred times as if I'm talking to a piece of stone; all for him to come back and turn my statement upstide down and then start repeating his same question. I do not believe you are autistic or have learning disabilities, I also do not want to believe you are on some kind of hard drug that impairs judgement and makes you forget things. I just believe you're deliberately being mischievous and feigning ignorance.

I've spent 4 days telling the same person the very same thing like a hundred times. I specifically told you that the $80 is not a part of the production cost, but rather, it is an is an 'opportunity cost'; i.e. the money Nigeria will not make if it goes ahead to refine and sell cheaply instead of selling the crude internationally.

But just look at what he's saying above?.. that I made a contradiction by saying the $80 was part of production cost? undecided tufiakwa!

Oga if you are on hard drugs, QUIT. If you aren't on hard drugs, then go see your doctor. But please before you quote me again, go and first read my previous responses in the past 4 days, if you dont still get the point, then please let me be; I give up, You win! Atiku or anyone can make petrol sell for N80 without any economic implication. You win! You win!

If i tell u that Am not surprised at ur response, I will b lying. Its typical. It seems thats d only way u are able 2 express urself. This makes me understand that there's more 2 just being able 2 read&write (literacy). Water doesn't stay on stone, neither can it penetrate stone. That's y ur use of derogatory words don't stick neither do they penetrate. So in a way, u are right. I am stone.

D discussion isn't about whether I take drugs or whether am impaired. D discussion is about d contrasting statements made by two personalities. One believes PMS can b sold 4 N80. D other believes otherwise. So try 2 stick with d issues&stay focused.

As far as u are concerned, Nigeria will loose money if PMS is sold 4 N80. So d same way u say u have been talking of opportunity cost 4d past 4days, is d same way I have been asking u 2 let's us no what inputs go into d production of imported PMS as well as locally produced PMS. Cos if u say Nigeria will b at a loss by selling PMS below N150, then what's wrong in knowing d inputs that go into d production of PMS & d cost of those inputs? Unfortunately, u have deflected that question by perpetually recycling opportunity cost& latching unto ur penchant 4d mediocre.

lexy2014:

u say crude doesn't add 2d cost of production of PMS.

obailala:

I specifically told you that the $80 is not a part of the production cost, but rather, it is an is an 'opportunity cost'; i.e. the money Nigeria will not make if it goes ahead to refine and sell cheaply instead of selling the crude internationally.

But just look at what he's saying above?.. that I made a contradiction by saying the $80 was part of production cost? undecided tufiakwa!



Pls look at my statement above and look at ur response. With that, it kind of seems all this ur talk of drugs, learning impairment e.t.c, seem 2b ur own way of sharing ur personal experience.

This is u:

"A barrel of crude is equivalent to 160litres. If we assume that we can convert the full 160 litres of crude to petrol, the maximum we can get from a barrel is therefore 160litres of petrol (take note, this is only an assumption cos we cant really derive up to 160litres from a barrel as there will always be other derivatives and bye products). But assuming we can get up to the full 160 litres of petrol from an $80 barrel of crude, that come out to about N150/litre."

This is me:

"grin question I ask is y d assumptions? What is d fact? U dont need 2 assume d facts except u want 2 distort d truth which u were trying 2do. D fact is that u can get more than one product from a barrel of crude. In this part of d world, we are very familiar with 4 of those products, DPK, AGO, PMS and gas. And if this is d case, a litre of PMS cannot b N150. Based on what u said above, in order to get d price per litre of each derivative it is N150 divided by N. N being d number of derivatives. So 150 divided by 4 is N37.50k. So Atiku was right. PMS can b sold 4 N80 in Nigeria."


So what exactly are d economic implications of d above that u mentioned earlier?
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by guiddoti: 8:42pm On Nov 06
PNomsule:


Assuming all of these were true, were we better as a nation than we currently are now? If yes which exactly is what it is, then keep shut please. We aren't buying any more of these hullabaloo.

Atiku for 2019 for a working economy.
Truly said: " A slave who loves his chain will remain bound" how many slaves will escape the rudiment of this world?
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by lexy2014: 9:11pm On Nov 06
djon78:



Bro you really get time.
How can you be discussing with someone that doesn't even understand what he himself is saying.
You want to be smeared with ignorance?

grin cheesy grin grin grin
Bros how I go do now. E b like say I get small odeshi. I just wanted 2 put d guy in his place
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by obailala(m): 9:17pm On Nov 06
lexy2014:


If i tell u that Am not surprised at ur response, I will b lying. Its typical. It seems thats d only way u are able 2 express urself. This makes me understand that there's more 2 just being able 2 read&write (literacy). Water doesn't stay on stone, neither can it penetrate stone. That's y ur use of derogatory words don't stick neither do they penetrate. So in a way, u are right. I am stone.

D discussion isn't about whether I take drugs or whether am impaired. D discussion is about d contrasting statements made by two personalities. One believes PMS can b sold 4 N80. D other believes otherwise. So try 2 stick with d issues&stay focused.

As far as u are concerned, Nigeria will loose money if PMS is sold 4 N80. So d same way u say u have been talking of opportunity cost 4d past 4days, is d same way I have been asking u 2 let's us no what inputs go into d production of imported PMS as well as locally produced PMS. Cos if u say Nigeria will b at a loss by selling PMS below N150, then what's wrong in knowing d inputs that go into d production of PMS & d cost of those inputs? Unfortunately, u have deflected that question by perpetually recycling opportunity cost& latching unto ur penchant 4d mediocre.






Pls look at my statement above and look at ur response. With that, it kind of seems all this ur talk of drugs, learning impairment e.t.c, seem 2b ur own way of sharing ur personal experience.

This is u:

"A barrel of crude is equivalent to 160litres. If we assume that we can convert the full 160 litres of crude to petrol, the maximum we can get from a barrel is therefore 160litres of petrol (take note, this is only an assumption cos we cant really derive up to 160litres from a barrel as there will always be other derivatives and bye products). But assuming we can get up to the full 160 litres of petrol from an $80 barrel of crude, that come out to about N150/litre."

This is me:

"grin question I ask is y d assumptions? What is d fact? U dont need 2 assume d facts except u want 2 distort d truth which u were trying 2do. D fact is that u can get more than one product from a barrel of crude. In this part of d world, we are very familiar with 4 of those products, DPK, AGO, PMS and gas. And if this is d case, a litre of PMS cannot b N150. Based on what u said above, in order to get d price per litre of each derivative it is N150 divided by N. N being d number of derivatives. So 150 divided by 4 is N37.50k. So Atiku was right. PMS can b sold 4 N80 in Nigeria."


So what exactly are d economic implications of d above that u mentioned earlier?
Please its okay, you win. Petrol can be sold at N80 without any economic implications. I don't know what to tell you any more.
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by lexy2014: 9:35pm On Nov 06
obailala:
Please its okay, you win. Petrol can be sold at N80 without any economic implications. I don't know what to tell you any more.

I haven't won anything. As 4 me, this isn't a contest& I didn't get into d conversation cos I wanted 2 "win". Its u who wanted 2 win. Remember, earlier u won d award 4d most economically literate person 2018.

1 Like

Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by soulpeppersoup(m): 10:27pm On Nov 06
efilefun:
With crude at $80/bbl and exchange rate at N305/$? (special fx by FG for importers)

A barrel of crude is about 159 liters of crude.

Just dividing the $80 (N24,400) by 159 liters already gives a price of N153.4/liter without any processing.

So, by the time you factor in refining and transportation costs, THERE IS NO WAY the price will come as low as the 85/90 naira price PDP are claiming to reduce the price to.

But the unfortunate blockhead yoots won't see thru the lies but keep screaming Atikulooting.

You are looking at it from one angle.

If Nigerian exchange rate is unified, $ rate will drop. Building 3 refineries will make fuel go below 90 naira.

1 Like

Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by obailala(m): 11:22pm On Nov 06
lexy2014:


I haven't won anything. As 4 me, this isn't a contest& I didn't get into d conversation cos I wanted 2 "win". Its u who wanted 2 win. Remember, earlier u won d award 4d most economically literate person 2018.
I've tried really hard to the best of my ability to breakdown Madam Oby's point, I've tried my best to explain how economically, there would be losses if NNPC sells petrol for N80 even if the petrol is locally refined. The only thing that can change that is if there's a drastic improvement in the value of the Naira. You obviously have refused to read my explanations, so I dont have anything to say any more.
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by lexy2014: 6:58am On Nov 07
obailala:
I've tried really hard to the best of my ability to breakdown Madam Oby's point, I've tried my best to explain how economically, there would be losses if NNPC sells petrol for N80 even if the petrol is locally refined. The only thing that can change that is if there's a drastic improvement in the value of the Naira. You obviously have refused to read my explanations, so I dont have anything to say any more.

D same way u have also tried 2d best of ur ability to deflect and avoid d issue of what inputs go into d production of imported PMS as well as locally made PMS using N150 as ur base price. What are these inputs and what are their costs? If u can't give these, then how do u conclude there will b a loss selling at N80 and even with opportunity cost?

Even with opportunity cost, u still contradicted urself. U derived ur N150 (N24,000 ÷ 160litres of PMS) by distorting d facts, by assuming that only PMS can b derived from a barrel of crude. at d same time, u acknowledged that PMS isn't d only derivative from a barrel. Despite u knew that u can get several derivatives from a barrel of crude, u went on to base ur analysis on assumptions instead of d ACTUAL yet u are insisting it is right cos madam oby said it.

Which point didn't I read? Aren't u d one who made this point?

"A barrel of crude is equivalent to 160litres. If we assume that we can convert the full 160 litres of crude to petrol, the maximum we can get from a barrel is therefore 160litres of petrol (take note, this is only an assumption cos we cant really derive up to 160litres from a barrel as there will always be other derivatives and bye products). But assuming we can get up to the full 160 litres of petrol from an $80 barrel of crude, that come out to about N150/litre."


If u use d 4 derivatives u get from a barrel of crude 4 ur analysis will u still end up with N150 as price of one litre of PMS?
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by obailala(m): 2:20pm On Nov 07
lexy2014:

D same way u have also tried 2d best of ur ability to deflect and avoid d issue of what inputs go into d production of imported PMS as well as locally made PMS using N150 as ur base price. What are these inputs and what are their costs? If u can't give these, then how do u conclude there will b a loss selling at N80 and even with opportunity cost?

Lol... this dude doesn't give up; abi you be woman?... grin

Okay please, tell me, what are the inputs that go into the production of imported PMS vs Local PMS. Of course locally refined PMS (refined by NNPC) will be cheaper because the primary raw material (crude) will not be paid for by NNPC (this is common knowledge). I'm sure this all you've been trying to point out , TRUE or FALSE?

But all I've been trying to tell you all along is that cost of production isn't only about the direct cost of raw material inputs. When making economic decisions, economists determine costs by also considering the explicit (or opportunity) costs. So in this topic, the direct cost of raw material input to produce PMS isn't all that matters as you've been trying to claim. But it seems like this is where you've been dwelling on all along; "that NNPC wouldn't pay global crude prices".

If I'm given a car as a gift (free gift), or course if I sell that car for N1million, I have made a full profit of N1million (from a layman's perspective). But if the actual market value of that car was actually N1.5million, then economically, an economist would say I have made a loss of N500k, that 500k doesn't come from the money I paid for the car (of course I paid nothing for it), but rather it's the potential extra benefit I would have made if I had sold the car for the right market price. So in your case, you keep asking "what are these inputs and what are their costs", the cost of the main input here is ZERO if this helps.

1 Like

Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by obailala(m): 2:30pm On Nov 07
lexy2014:

Even with opportunity cost, u still contradicted urself. U derived ur N150 (N24,000 ÷ 160litres of PMS) by distorting d facts, by assuming that only PMS can b derived from a barrel of crude. at d same time, u acknowledged that PMS isn't d only derivative from a barrel. Despite u knew that u can get several derivatives from a barrel of crude, u went on to base ur analysis on assumptions instead of d ACTUAL yet u are insisting it is right cos madam oby said it.

Which point didn't I read? Aren't u d one who made this point?

"A barrel of crude is equivalent to 160litres. If we assume that we can convert the full 160 litres of crude to petrol, the maximum we can get from a barrel is therefore 160litres of petrol (take note, this is only an assumption cos we cant really derive up to 160litres from a barrel as there will always be other derivatives and bye products). But assuming we can get up to the full 160 litres of petrol from an $80 barrel of crude, that come out to about N150/litre."


If u use d 4 derivatives u get from a barrel of crude 4 ur analysis will u still end up with N150 as price of one litre of PMS?
Of the derivatives that come from crude, PMS has the highest demand and it's typically makes the bulk of what you can get. In reality, you cant even get up to 100litres of petrol from a barrel of crude, and yes! there are other derivatives which are more expensive than PMS (e.g. diesel, jet fuel, lubricants), but you don't get as much of these more expensive products as you can get of PMS from a barrel. Also, since you want to talk of every single derivative, remember there will also be much cheaper and even worthless bye-products (which I haven't considered)? All in all, the best value you can get from a barrel of crude depends on the quality of the crude and efficiency of your refining process. In summary, my assumption about getting the full 160 litres of PMS from 160 litres of crude (100% efficiency/utilization and no waste/bye-products) is a conservative assumption ; it doesn't in any way invalidate my argument.
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by obailala(m): 3:14pm On Nov 07
@lexy2014,

Maybe if you look at it from another approach. The image chart below shows global petrol prices in countries around the world. The comparison already includes a lot of taxes and 'other costs' in different countries so might not give a very good picture. But from the list, we can only just assume what the base price might be if the extra taxes are excluded. The only reason I put this up is to illustrate where the N145 Nigeria pays for petrol sits with other countries around the world; it is far below the global average of $1.17 and that's because of the subsidies and lower taxes we impose.

The main factor of production which drives the base cost of petrol is the prevailing crude oil price. Now of course if the Nigerian government starts refining Nigerian crude and selling to Nigerians, it can afford to easily sell that fuel for N80 (roughly $0.26) since the primary raw material (crude) used in its production wasn't paid for. But the point I've been trying to pass across is, IF the Nigerian government alternatively decides to sell that crude in the international market, or IF it decides to refine and sell PMS to these other over 150 countries where PMS sells for far above $0.26, will the Nigerian government make more profit or not?

If you agree that the Nigerian govt will make more financial benefits by selling the crude or the refined products internationally at average international market prices, do you agree now that the government will be giving up/foregoing/forfeiting the extra financial benefit if it sticks to selling the petrol to Nigerians at $0.26 (N80)?

Gasoline prices, 05-Nov-2018: The average price of gasoline around the world is 1.17 U.S. Dollar per liter. However, there is substantial difference in these prices among countries. As a general rule, richer countries have higher prices while poorer countries and the countries that produce and export oil have significantly lower prices. One notable exception is the U.S. which is an economically advanced country but has low gas prices. The differences in prices across countries are due to the various taxes and subsidies for gasoline. All countries have access to the same petroleum prices of international markets but then decide to impose different taxes. As a result, the retail price of gasoline is different.
https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/

Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by A230385: 3:29pm On Nov 07
Ive been following the arguments amongst you guys and I believe @Obalaila is actually very right. It's in tandem with @Keyamo's submission on the present stance on subsidy(under-recovery).
I actually learnt a lot from these arguments.
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by djon78: 3:43pm On Nov 07
obailala:
@lexy2014,

Maybe if you look at it from another approach. The image chart below shows global petrol prices in countries around the world. The comparison already includes a lot of taxes and 'other costs' in different countries so might not give a very good picture. But from the list, we can only just assume what the base price might be if the extra taxes are excluded. The only reason I put this up is to illustrate where the N145 Nigeria pays for petrol sits with other countries around the world; it is far below the global average of $1.17 and that's because of the subsidies and lower taxes we impose.

The main factor of production which drives the base cost of petrol is the prevailing crude oil price. Now of course if the Nigerian government starts refining Nigerian crude and selling to Nigerians, it can afford to easily sell that fuel for N80 (roughly $0.26) since the primary raw material (crude) used in its production wasn't paid for. But the point I've been trying to pass across is, IF the Nigerian government alternatively decides to sell that crude in the international market, or IF it decides to refine and sell PMS to these other over 150 countries where PMS sells for far above $0.26, will the Nigerian government make more profit or not?

If you agree that the Nigerian govt will make more financial benefits by selling the crude or the refined products internationally at average international market prices, do you agree now that the government will be giving up/foregoing/forfeiting the extra financial benefit if it sticks to selling the petrol to Nigerians at $0.26 (N80)?


https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/

Now you are giving fact like an intelligent person. Your chart shows that actually Nigeria wasn't doing bad.
At least you have educated me with that. This you should have done since.
Kudos

These are the way Buharists should argue by
Showing facts of what the President is doing
Not insulting people. Carry people along
If this regime had toned down its rhetoric, it would have won very many people over.
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by lexy2014: 4:41pm On Nov 07
obailala:
Of the derivatives that come from crude, PMS has the highest demand and it's typically makes the bulk of what you can get. In reality, you cant even get up to 100litres of petrol from a barrel of crude, and yes! there are other derivatives which are more expensive than PMS (e.g. diesel, jet fuel, lubricants), but you don't get as much of these more expensive products as you can get of PMS from a barrel. Also, since you want to talk of every single derivative, remember there will also be much cheaper and even worthless bye-products (which I haven't considered)? All in all, the best value you can get from a barrel of crude depends on the quality of the crude and efficiency of your refining process. In summary, my assumption about getting the full 160 litres of PMS from 160 litres of crude (100% efficiency/utilization and no waste/bye-products) is a conservative assumption ; it doesn't in any way invalidate my argument.

So if u can't get up 2 100% of PMS from a barrel of crude, then y do u assume that a barrel of crude is a 100% PMS? If there are by products from a barrel of crude, there are. Y do u now decide 2 now round everything up as PMS and then base ur inference on assumption by discarding d facts?

On average, 44.4% of petroleum becomes gasoline. There really are no waste products from petroleum. The lighter chemicals are natural gas, liquified petroleum gas (LPG), jet fuel, and kerosene. The heavier products are used for the manufacture of lubricants, plastics, and asphalt. If nnpc decides 2 put a price on these products in a barrel of crude, will they not get $80? I believe NNPC can still get its $80 after selling all these products
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by obailala(m): 4:47pm On Nov 07
djon78:


Now you are giving fact like an intelligent person. Your chart shows that actually Nigeria wasn't doing bad.
At least you have educated me with that. This you should have done since.
Kudos

These are the way Buharists should argue by
Showing facts of what the President is doing
Not insulting people. Carry people along
If this regime had toned down its rhetoric, it would have won very many people over.
Point of correction, every single argument I made on this thread had absolutely nothing to do with buhari or atiku or gej or apc or pdp or any kind of politics whatsoever; it was never meant to be a political argument and in no way did I try to say anything to castigate or glorify any body or political group or political ideology. Nigeria's economy still suffocates under the burden of subsidy, PDP paid subsidy, apc is paying subsidy, and subsidy payments will continue by every govt until we get certain things right (especially when we fix our balance of trade problems and strengthen the Naira). Too bad, your mind was too politically charged, that's why you saw it all as politics.
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by lexy2014: 4:47pm On Nov 07
obailala:
Lol... this dude doesn't give up; abi you be woman?... grin

Okay please, tell me, what are the inputs that go into the production of imported PMS vs Local PMS. Of course locally refined PMS (refined by NNPC) will be cheaper because the primary raw material (crude) will not be paid for by NNPC (this is common knowledge). I'm sure this all you've been trying to point out , TRUE or FALSE?

But all I've been trying to tell you all along is that cost of production isn't only about the direct cost of raw material inputs. When making economic decisions, economists determine costs by also considering the explicit (or opportunity) costs. So in this topic, the direct cost of raw material input to produce PMS isn't all that matters as you've been trying to claim. But it seems like this is where you've been dwelling on all along; "that NNPC wouldn't pay global crude prices".

If I'm given a car as a gift (free gift), or course if I sell that car for N1million, I have made a full profit of N1million (from a layman's perspective). But if the actual market value of that car was actually N1.5million, then economically, an economist would say I have made a loss of N500k, that 500k doesn't come from the money I paid for the car (of course I paid nothing for it), but rather it's the potential extra benefit I would have made if I had sold the car for the right market price. So in your case, you keep asking "what are these inputs and what are their costs", the cost of the main input here is ZERO if this helps.

Several times, u had said u wanted 2 quit this discussion but here u are. Does that make u a woman? U had on several occasions used all sorts of derogatory & foul language 2 attack my person. Did that make u a man or a woman? My dear, pls face d discussion and make ur point. I didn't ask u not 2 give up. If u want 2 give up, its ur choice & no one will judge u
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by GSA01: 4:49pm On Nov 07
PDP claim that Atiku will reduce the pump price of petrol to N90 only showed that the former Vice President was ignorant of the economy. This is a white lie. He is obviously playing to the gallery!!!
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by obailala(m): 4:54pm On Nov 07
lexy2014:


So if u can't get up 2 100% of PMS from a barrel of crude, then y do u assume that a barrel of crude is a 100% PMS? If there are by products from a barrel of crude, there are. Y do u now decide 2 now round everything up as PMS and then base ur inference on assumption by discarding d facts?
How many of those other products and bye-products are as pricey as gasoline and diesel? Lube oil is pricey, but how much of it can you really make out of a barrel and what is the demand for it compared to gasoline?... My assumption of 100% PMS is actually generous and conservative, and I did that to cover for the extra value the pricier derivatives like diesel, jet fuel and lube would have added.

On average, 44.4% of petroleum becomes gasoline. There really are no waste products from petroleum. The lighter chemicals are natural gas, liquified petroleum gas (LPG), jet fuel, and kerosene. The heavier products are used for the manufacture of lubricants, plastics, and asphalt. If nnpc decides 2 put a price on these products in a barrel of crude, will they not get $80? I believe NNPC can still get its $80 after selling all these products
Knocking down the price of pms which is the largest derivative to N80, the amount gained by the sale of other derivatives (even if you leave diesel price at N220) would not cover up to $80. I wouldn't be able to give a detailed breakdown on that now to tell you by how much it would be short, but consider the average global price of PMS and it gives you a rough idea of what a profitable (or break even) price of PMS should be.

But yes, it's absolutely true that if Nigeria starts refining its crude, it can help to bring down the price in an economically viable way. That is because in addition to paying less for processing and shipping costs, a cessation of importation would have an unbelievably positive effect on our exchange rate.
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by obailala(m): 5:00pm On Nov 07
lexy2014:


Several times, u had said u wanted 2 quit this discussion but here u are. Does that make u a woman? U had on several occasions used all sorts of derogatory & foul language 2 attack my person. Did that make u a man or a woman? My dear, pls face d discussion and make ur point. I didn't ask u not 2 give up. If u want 2 give up, its ur choice & no one will judge u
I got tired and frustrated because I kept having to repeat the very same thing over and over again but you kept returning to ask the same questions that I had already answered, making me wonder if you even bothered reading my responses before replying them. My apologies for the unsavoury words.
Re: 2019 Presidency: How PDP Exposed Atiku’s Ignorance – Oby Ezekwesili by Grayxme: 6:31pm On Nov 07
This is just the beginning of his downfall, the fact is that Atiku has nothing to offer to Nigerians, he have been tested and can never be trusted, He is only trying to use different measures to win the people's support.

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