Q: When were Jesus’ disciples born again?

They got born again when they became born again!!!

sylvez:
They got born again when they became born again!!!

They got born again after the death and resurrection of Jesus. The holy spirit is the seal of our salvation.

Q: When were Jesus’ disciples born again?

A: Scripture tells us not only when the disciples were born again, but also how. The answer may surprise you: They were born again the very same way you and I, or any other person is.

We know the disciples walked and talked with Jesus on a daily basis.

But like every Christian, each individual disciple had to accept that Jesus was raised from the dead and make Jesus his Lord (Romans 10:9-10). The Bible describes how and when this took place after Jesus’ resurrection:

“That Sunday evening the disciples were meeting behind locked doors because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders.

Suddenly, Jesus was standing there among them! ‘Peace be with you,’ he said. As he spoke, he showed them the wounds in his hands and his side.

They were filled with joy when they saw the Lord! Again he said, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I am sending you.’ Then he breathed on them and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit’” (John 20:19-22).

The disciples saw the resurrected Jesus and knew He was the Lord.

When they accepted His resurrection and lordship, Jesus breathed on them and said, “Receive ye the Holy Ghost.”

This event is very significant because the Bible says when we are born again, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit; in other words, the Holy Spirit comes to live on the inside of us (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30).

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit occurs in every believer the moment they make Jesus their Lord. This salvation experience comes before the Baptism in the Holy Spirit spoken of in Acts 2.

Send your questions today, and I will reply you by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit within me.

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They were born again the very day they began to do the Will of God(keep the Words of Jesus/humble themselves and became as little children etc.), and you can get this from the sayings of Jesus, as He said all in the respect of entering into the Kingdom of God(Jn 3:3-6, Mt 18:3-4, 7:21).

Therefore being born again means the same thing as all those given things, for all from the Sayings of Jesus are required to be able to enter into the Kingdom of God.

Therefore it's not something that happens when you are baptized with the Spirit of God, for the baptism of the Spirit of God is just a confirmation of you being born again.

So it not something that the Holy Spirit does for someone when He come upon the person, but what the person does for himself when begins to do the Will of God(obey the Words of Jesus/humbles himself and become as a little child etc.), for its a lifestyle and a mindset that comes with doing these things.

That's why Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born-again, because it was something he needed to do himself to be able to enter into the Kingdom of God, for it's the same thing He said to the rich young man, His disciples etc., for they are all synonyms of each other.

For the Word of Jesus is the Word of the Spirit, therefore by keeping it you begin to live the life of the Spirit, and that's how you become as the wind.

jesusjnr:
They were born again the very day they began to do the Will of God(keep the Words of Jesus/humble themselves and became as little children etc.), and you can get this from the sayings of Jesus, as He said all in the respect of entering into the Kingdom of God(Jn 3:3-6, Mt 18:3-4, 7:21).

Therefore being born again means the same thing as all those given things, for all from the Sayings of Jesus are required to be able to enter into the Kingdom of God.

Therefore it's not something that happens when you are baptized with the Spirit of God, for the baptism of the Spirit of God is just a confirmation of you being born again.

So it not something that the Holy Spirit does for someone when He come upon the person, but what the person does for himself when begins to do the Will of God(obey the Words of Jesus/humbles himself and become as a little child etc.), for its a lifestyle and a mindset that comes with doing these things.

That's why Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born-again, because it was something he needed to do himself to be able to enter into the Kingdom of God, for it's the same thing He said to the rich young man, His disciples etc., for they are all synonyms of each other.

For the Word of Jesus is the Word of the Spirit, therefore by keeping it you begin to live the life of the Spirit, and that's how you become as the wind.

It is very easy to understand. What does the word born- again mean? It means reborn from the old nature of sin. Simple. This was exactly what Jesus came into the world to accomplish.

Adam fell and died spiritually- his spirit man was separated from God. Jesus came, died and rose again, he was the first born from spiritual death. Col 1:18.

It might interest you to know that nobody was born again until Jesus was resurrected. You just need to understand what the word born again means.

It means born the second time after dying spiritually as a result of Adam’s fall. Now, will you still say that Jesus disciples were “born again” before Jesus’ resurrection? No sir

Wow

PastorDavidAwuj:


It is very easy to understand. What does the word born- again mean? It means reborn from the old nature of sin. Simple. This was exactly what Jesus came into the world to accomplish.

Adam fell and died spiritually- his spirit man was separated from God. Jesus came, died and rose again, he was the first born from spiritual death. Col 1:18.

It might interest you to know that nobody was born again until Jesus was resurrected. You just need to understand what the word born again means.

It means born the second time after dying spiritually as a result of Adam’s fall. Now, will you still say that Jesus disciples were “born again” before Jesus’ resurrection? No sir

It is ok if you disagree with my own opinion of when the disciples became born-again, but going by your own explanation that also meant that no one was also truly saved before resurrection of Jesus.

And that's inclusive of those who Jesus declared to be so, such as the sinner who anointed Him, unto whom He first said, "Thy sins are forgiven" and also "...Thy faith has saved thee: go in Peace"(Lk 7:48,50).

For at the time that Jesus said that to her, He hadn't yet resurrected, so her sins were not really forgiven and she also was not truly saved at the time that Jesus Himself said this to her, until his resurrection, as that was also what Jesus came to accomplish on Earth?

jesusjnr:
It is ok if you disagree with my own opinion of when the disciples became born-again, but going by your own explanation that also meant that no one was also truly saved before resurrection of Jesus.

And that's inclusive of those who Jesus declared to be so, such as the sinner who anointed Him, unto whom He first said, "Thy sins are forgiven" and also "...Thy faith has saved thee: go in Peace"(Lk 7:48,50).

For at the time that Jesus said that to her, He hadn't yet resurrected, so her sins were not really forgiven and she also was not truly saved at the time that Jesus Himself said this to her, until his resurrection, as that was also what Jesus came to accomplish on Earth?

Look at this. There are two dispensations. The old covenant and the new covenant. The old was that of burnt offerings and sacrifices. That was how man was able to atone for his sin. But this only lasted a year after which he had to renew it through the service of the priets.

You can see that this was not a permanent solution to the sin problem. So, God sent Jesus into the world to give a permanent solution to the sin problem through his death and resurrection.

Now, your question about if nobody was saved before Jesus? Yes, people were able to atone for their sins, but NOBODY was born again. Remember, born again means born out of the old sin nature.

This was why Jesus came. To get our spirits born again. And he only could do this by his death and resurrection. It may interest you to know that if Jesus wasn’t resurrected, their will be no born again people.

I say again, nobody was born again before Jesus’ resurrection. He was the first born again man. Remember how the curtain in the tabernacle was rent? Yes, that spelt the end of the old covenant of burnt sacrifices and the beginning of the new covenant of born again spirits, no more needing sacrifices.

Again, a born again man is a dead spirit believing in his heart that Jesus came to die for his sins and rose on the third day, and accepts Jesus’ work of redemption. Rom 10:10

By now, I know you see where I’m coming from and where I’m driving at.

Sins were forgiven in the Old Testament before Jesus’ death. I have pointed that out to you already. But no one was was born again. In fact, again I say Jesus was the first man born again out of the dead spirit of man Col1:18

Just correctly define the term “born again” and you will see the light. Check the topic: it says, when were Jesus’ disciples born again not when were sins forgiven.

Sins were forgiven all through the Old Testament by sacrifices.

Born again simply means to become jesus disciple or follower as at the Jesus was never crucified or resurrected. At that time there was nothing like christianity, so christians saying they are born again is aberration and they are only ridicling themselves.

There is nothing like born again anymore

paxonel:
Born again simply means to become jesus disciple or follower as at the Jesus was never crucified or resurrected. At that time there was nothing like christianity, so christians saying they are born again is aberration and they are only ridicling themselves.

There is nothing like born again anymore

Where is this in the Bible?

PastorDavidAwuj:


Look at this. There are two dispensations. The old covenant and the new covenant. The old was that of burnt offerings and sacrifices. That was how man was able to atone for his sin. But this only lasted a year after which he had to renew it through the service of the priets.

You can see that this was not a permanent solution to the sin problem. So, God sent Jesus into the world to give a permanent solution to the sin problem through his death and resurrection.

Now, your question about if nobody was saved before Jesus? Yes, people were able to atone for their sins, but NOBODY was born again. Remember, born again means born out of the old sin nature.

This was why Jesus came. To get our spirits born again. And he only could do this by his death and resurrection. It may interest you to know that if Jesus wasn’t resurrected, their will be no born again people.

I say again, nobody was born again before Jesus’ resurrection. He was the first born again man. Remember how the curtain in the tabernacle was rent? Yes, that spelt the end of the old covenant of burnt sacrifices and the beginning of the new covenant of born again spirits, no more needing sacrifices.

Again, a born again man is a dead spirit believing in his heart that Jesus came to die for his sins and rose on the third day, and accepts Jesus’ work of redemption. Rom 10:10

By now, I know you see where I’m coming from and where I’m driving at.

PastorDavidAwuj:
Sins were forgiven in the Old Testament before Jesus’ death. I have pointed that out to you already. But no one was was born again. In fact, again I say Jesus was the first man born again out of the dead spirit of man Col1:18

Just correctly define the term “born again” and you will see the light. Check the topic: it says, when were Jesus’ disciples born again not when were sins forgiven.

Sins were forgiven all through the Old Testament by sacrifices.

You seem to be very sure of yourself in what you are saying, however I can't reconcile that with the fact that I asked you a simple question, if people where saved before the resurrection of Jesus, for instead of given me the simple answer of either yes or no, which my question warrants, i'm sorry to say that you are beating about the bush.

As if i didn't know about the old dispensation/testament etc., of the law...and the atonement of the sins of the Israelites by the killing of lambs, which of course was a prophetic observation, with respect to Jesus, the Lamb of God that was going to atone for the sins of the mankind, for that was something of common knowledge.

But what i asked you was not about someone's whose sins was being forgiven by the old atonement of sins, but by Jesus the lamb of God who hadn't yet died, and without even the shedding of the blood of any lamb, yet told the woman that her sins had been forgiven, which even drew the ire of the Pharisees(the custodians of the law)who found fault in it, and also that her faith had saved her.

So based on your position that no one was born again before His resurrection, i asked you that if that be the case that it should also apply to the sayings of Jesus, as in that which Jesus said concerning the woman, even that her sins weren't yet forgiven and she also wasn't yet saved as Jesus had said, because He wasn't yet resurrected.

That aside there's a blatant error that gives you away is the saying the Jesus was the first to be born again. You still have a chance to take that back because you already defined born-again as the reborn from the old nature of sin.

So just going by your definition alone, how could you still say in the same breath that Jesus was the first born-again?

For Jesus didn't have the old nature of sin to have to be reborn, in fact He was a born of the Spirit in His first birth, and never sinned, which was what made Him eligible to redeem man from his sins, so how could He have been born again, except you mean the reverse, that's being born-again, from the Spirit into the flesh.

Now Jesus said something concerning the disciples that supports my own position that they were born-again the very moment they began to do the Will of God/obey His Word/humble themselves and become as little children etc., which goes:

"I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world." Jn 17:14(KJV)

I initially wanted to add something to what Jesus said there but I think it would spoil it, because it was turned out even far better than I first imagined.

So what a perfect way to end my talk on the very subject, with My perfect Master rounding things off Himself!

jesusjnr:
You seem to be very sure of yourself in what you are saying, however I can't reconcile that with the fact that I asked you a simple question, if people where saved before the resurrection of Jesus, for instead of given me the simple answer of either yes or no, which my question warrants, i'm sorry to say that you are beating about the bush.

As if i didn't know about the old dispensation/testament etc., of the law...and the atonement of the sins of the Israelites by the killing of lambs, which of course was a prophetic observation, with respect to Jesus, the Lamb of God that was going to atone for the sins of the mankind, for that was something of common knowledge.

But what i asked you was not about someone's whose sins was being forgiven by the old atonement of sins, but by Jesus the lamb of God who hadn't yet died, and without even the shedding of the blood of any lamb, yet told the woman that her sins had been forgiven, which even drew the ire of the Pharisees(the custodians of the law)who found fault in it, and also that her faith had saved her.

So based on your position that no one was born again before His resurrection, i asked you that if that be the case that it should also apply to the sayings of Jesus, as in that which Jesus said concerning the woman, even that her sins weren't yet forgiven and she also wasn't yet saved as Jesus had said, because He wasn't yet resurrected.

That aside there's a blatant error that gives you away is the saying the Jesus was the first to be born again. You still have a chance to take that back because you already defined born-again as the reborn from the old nature of sin.

So just going by your definition alone, how could you still say in the same breath that Jesus was the first born-again?

For Jesus didn't have the old nature of sin to have to be reborn, in fact He was a born of the Spirit in His first birth, and never sinned, which was what made Him eligible to redeem man from his sins, so how could He have been born again, except you mean the reverse, that's being born-again, from the Spirit into the flesh.

Now Jesus said something concerning the disciples that supports my own position that they were born-again the very moment they began to do the Will of God/obey His Word/humble themselves and become as little children etc., which goes:

"I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world." Jn 17:14(KJV)

I initially wanted to add something to what Jesus said there but I think it would spoil it, because it was turned out even far better than I first imagined.

So what a perfect way to end my talk on the very subject, with My perfect Master rounding things off Himself!

This thing is very simple to grasp. In your next comment I want you to define the term “born again.” That will open your eyes to the fact that nobody could have been born again before Jesus’ resurrection.

Now, that example you keep citing about Jesus forgiving sins. Do you know that as God the son Jesus had the power to forgive sins. Mark 2:10- just like God has the power to forgive sins

Something you should understand clearly is that forgiveness of sins and been born again are two different things. Born- again. Born- the- second- time, after been born as a dead spirit separated from God. You should understand now.

Now, talking about Jesus born of the Spirit. You are very correct. But do you know that at the point of dying for the sins of mankind, he actually was carrying the whole weight of mankind’s sin on himself? I guess you didn’t think about this before.

At that point God the Father had to turn his back against him because of the sin He carried. That’s why the Bible calls him the firstborn from the dead

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Define the term born- again. Is it Forgiveness of sins alone? No. If you said it was, then all the saints in the old covenant who had their sins forgiven were born again? No.

This was the confusion Nicodemus had, and Jesus tried to help him by tell him to be his disciple.

In effect Jesus was telling him, “ be my disciple, watch me go to the cross and get resurrected on the third day, then you will experience the new birth (born- again) by believing in that work of redemption.

Are you born again? Yes? What makes you born again is Jesus death and resurrection. Or what do you think makes you born again?

PastorDavidAwuj:
It is very easy to understand. What does the word born- again mean?
It means reborn from the old nature of sin. Simple. This was exactly what Jesus came into the world to accomplish.

Adam fell and died spiritually- his spirit man was separated from God. Jesus came, died and rose again, he was the first born from spiritual death. Col 1:18.

It might interest you to know that nobody was born again until Jesus was resurrected.
You just need to understand what the word born again means.
It means born the second time after dying spiritually as a result of Adam’s fall.

Now, will you still say that Jesus disciples were “born again” before Jesus’ resurrection?
No sir

I concur without any demur with the emboldened

Perfectbeing:
They got born again after the death and resurrection of Jesus.
The holy spirit is the seal of our salvation.

PastorDavidAwuj, it might interest you to know that the disciples, including Nicodemus were born again before Jesus' death and resurrection.

paxonel:
Born again simply means to become Jesus disciple or follower as at the Jesus was never crucified or resurrected.
At that time there was nothing like christianity, so christians saying they are born again is aberration and they are only ridicling themselves.

Born again, as in the context it is used in John 3:1-7,
and in an outright or oversimplified manner, means "born from above"

paxonel:
There is nothing like born again anymore

Whilst the mention of "born again" seems incidental,
it actually is serious, important and worthwhile to know and understand

paxonel, you are born again
and if you permit me, I can prove to you, that you are

PastorDavidAwuj:


This thing is very simple to grasp. In your next comment I want you to define the term “born again.” That will open your eyes to the fact that nobody could have been born again before Jesus’ resurrection.

Now, that example you keep citing about Jesus forgiving sins. Do you know that as God the son Jesus had the power to forgive sins. Mark 2:10- just like God has the power to forgive sins

Something you should understand clearly is that forgiveness of sins and been born again are two different things. Born- again. Born- the- second- time, after been born as a dead spirit separated from God. You should understand now.

Now, talking about Jesus born of the Spirit. You are very correct. But do you know that at the point of dying for the sins of mankind, he actually was carrying the whole weight of mankind’s sin on himself? I guess you didn’t think about this before.

At that point God the Father had to turn his back against him because of the sin He carried. That’s why the Bible calls him the firstborn from the dead

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Define the term born- again. Is it Forgiveness of sins alone? No. If you said it was, then all the saints in the old covenant who had their sins forgiven were born again? No.

This was the confusion Nicodemus had, and Jesus tried to help him by tell him to be his disciple.

In effect Jesus was telling him, “ be my disciple, watch me go to the cross and get resurrected on the third day, then you will experience the new birth (born- again) by believing in that work of redemption.

Are you born again? Yes? What makes you born again is Jesus death and resurrection. Or what do you think makes you born again?

I'm not going to say anything else on this matter because if the saying of Jesus to conclude my point is not enough for you to understand that the disciples were born again before His resurrection then there's nothing I can do about it.

So I leave it to you to continue with your explanations by telling me what Jesus actually meant when He said in that prayer to God, that they His disciples were not of the world, just as He was not of the world, before His resurrection?

jesusjnr:
I'm not going to say anything else on this matter because if the saying of Jesus to conclude my point is not enough for you to understand that the disciples were born again before His resurrection then there's nothing I can do about it.

So I leave it to you to continue with your explanations by telling me what Jesus actually meant when He said in that prayer to God, that they His disciples were not of the world, just as He was not of the world, before His resurrection?

On the day of Pentecost

donnie:
On the day of Pentecost

Before then

Is “they are not of this world” the definition you are giving to being “born again?” I know you now see my point.

MuttleyLaff:
I concur without any demur with the emboldened

PastorDavidAwuj, it might interest you to know that the disciples, including Nicodemus were born again before Jesus' death and resurrection.

Born again, as in the context it is used in John 3:1-7,
and in an outright or oversimplified manner, means "born from above"

Whilst the mention of "born again" seems incidental,
it actually is serious, important and worthwhile to know and understand

paxonel, you are born again
and if you permit me, I can prove to you, that you are

ok, prove to me that i am born again.
I really want to understand you

MuttleyLaff:
I concur without any demur with the emboldened

PastorDavidAwuj, it might interest you to know that the disciples, including Nicodemus were born again before Jesus' death and resurrection.

Born again, as in the context it is used in John 3:1-7,
and in an outright or oversimplified manner, means "born from above"

Whilst the mention of "born again" seems incidental,
it actually is serious, important and worthwhile to know and understand

paxonel, you are born again
and if you permit me, I can prove to you, that you are

If people could be born again before Jesus' death like you said, then his death was a waste and his blood was shed for nothing..
He'd have just taught Nicodemus about being born again and not die.

PastorDavidAwuj:


Where is this in the Bible?

put it this way,
The time or era after Jesus crucifixion and resurrection till this moment is the kingdom of God(the time of christianity which is the time of salvation as there was no salvation until christ resurrected).
The era before Jesus was crucified was the days of John the baptist.
Right from the days of John the baptist the kingdom of God suffereth violence(verb), and the violent(collective nown) actually took that kingdom by force.

Now, who were the violent?

The violents were actually Jesus disciples (about 5000 of them trodding Jesus for 5 loaves and 2 fishes) who later ran away the moment Jesus was captured.

All these 5000 disciples were the born again.

How do i know?

Jesus told nicodemus.
Marvel not that i say you should be born again(meaning, i want to open up and tell you what i mean by born again). John 3:7

Then he came up with this parable in

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Now, these are the elements of the parable based on how Jesus interpreted his other previous parables.

The sound of wind represent the crowd of his disciples (over 5000 of them)
Nicodemus saw these crowd of people following Jesus, he could not tell where they were coming from and where they were going to. (Remember they were going to Jerusalem where Jesus was to be crucified but nicodemus didnt even know that)
These people were the born again because Jesus concluded to nicodemus, so is every one(of that time,take note of the timing) that is born of the spirit .

And i have said, all these people of that time ran away the moment Jesus was arrested, infact peter denied him three times.
Since they all ran away, born again siezed to exist.
There is nothing like born again today, rather we have christianity today.

All these things happened in the days of John the baptist which was the transition between the old covenant and the new covenant.
I can tell you emphatically that John the baptist was the founder of that born again covenant(if there was anything like that) because John the baptist himself was born again, yet he missed the kingdom (the new covenant).
The least person in the new covenant which is you and i, is greater than John the baptist and every born again who ran away and also missed the kingdom

paxonel:
ok, prove to me that i am born again.

I hope you have the stamina because it is going to be a long read

paxonel:
I really want to understand you

"¹There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
²The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God:
for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
³Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
⁴Nicodemus saith unto him,
How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
⁵Jesus answered,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
⁶That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
⁷Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again"
- John 3:1-7

Very important bible useful rule of thumb, to remember, is that the bible wasnt originally in chapters and verses.
This why one needs to be so very careful when reading it

I love John chapter 3 a lot and have noticed that John chapter 3 actually and appropriately should have started from John 2:23
but it sad to see, many, be under a delusion or living in a fool's paradise, cavorting with the "born again" cliché

paxonel, someone like you and most are familiar with driving a car or riding a motor-cycle
know how a car's flat/dead battery is brought back to life
or know how a motor cycle thats being lying around or standing about for months/years is brought back to life

Now, here's the beginning of the point, here's how many so-called believers, "believers" and/or christians, misunderstand John chapter 3
and as a result, unnecessarily slip into resorting to using a "born again" cliché

I am unable to understand why some and/or others dont ever wonder why Jesus never publicly gave "born again" teaching.
Think about it. Not even one public teaching about "born again" did Jesus give
I guess it's because born from above also known as, born again, actually isn't a badge of honour, but is a matter of just fact
It is unneccessary to publicly teach a known fact

paxonel, well, what was Nicodemus opening remark and what was Jesus' immediate reply back to Nicodemus opening remark?
Tell now, repeat Nicodemus' question to Jesus now paxonel

The arresting point that got Nicodemus captivated was the mention of regeneration in Jesus' immediate reply to Nicodemus' opening remark.

Jesus said to Nicodemus, it takes one having a spirit renewal or spirit re-birth, to see and recognise the kingdom of God
Jesus said, except born from above, one cant accept the truth of nor admit the existence of the kingdom of God

If one isnt, then such one, will rubbish, ridicule, make fun of, poke fun at, make jokes about, scoff at, be sarcastic about the kingdom of God
Such one not born from above, will take the mickey out of demonstrations & power of the kingdom of God

Notice, it's, from being born from above, that one is be able to confess and acknowledge the demonstrations & power of the kingdom of God
and its' from being born of water and born from above, is the order for entering into the kingdom of God

paxonel, here is an illustration, to explain "see the kingdom of God" and "enter into the kingdom of God"
When you're on a plane from France to Ghana, with a connecting flight at Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, you land in Holland.
You dont go outside or beyond Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, you see Amsterdam city and/or Holland from inside Amsterdam Airport Schiphol,
Except you have the correct travelling documents etcetera, you cant go into town, cannot physically enter into Amsterdam city and/or Holland.
You will just see Holland and the city from whilst inside Amsterdam Airport Schiphol (i.e. the main international airport of the Netherlands)
but will not enter the city

Now lets rewind a bit paxonel
After dark one evening, Nicodemus came to speak with Jesus.
"Rabbi," he said,
"we all know that God has sent you to teach us.
Your miraculous signs are evidence that God is with you."
- John 3:2

Going back to John 3:2,
Nicodemus in John 3:2 managed to have seen somethings, he admitted and confirmed the origin of what hes being seeing
John 2:23 is testament to this
but Jesus switched gear on Nicodemus, Jesus changed from talking about "see the Kingdom'' to 'talking 'enter the Kingdom''
All this happened as a result of Nicodemus trying to make sense of Born Again and entering mother's womb
- paxonel, it is a fact, it is possible, we can see things of thing without entering the thing

People jumble two separate things together here paxonel.
Just because you cant enter into something, doesnt mean or imply you can't see the something

People see America, people watch America
but to enter into America, to set foot on American soil in America, requires certain criteria being met

Two people looking at the same thing at the same time,
both observing the same thing but only one is seeing something,
only one is admitting seeing what's being observed or only one confesses and acknowledges what was played out before them both

You see things when the spirit falls or rests on you
You can't see things unless you are born from above (i.e. you are born again)
You wont confess and acknowledge unless you are born from above (i.e. you are born again)

Please study John 3:1-3 by slowing reading but reading it out loud
Hope you notice how Nicodemus instigated Jesus switching the gear on him.
Jesus in responding to Nicodemus' admitted John 3:2 observances, decides to up the ante
from ''see the Kingdom'' to ''enter into the Kingdom'' after Nicodemus brought in the issue of re-entering a mother's womb

Nicodemus had no problem with Jesus' first reply
This is confirmed if John 3:3, is re-read like this:
You are right Nicodemus, I say to you, EXCEPT a man be born again, he CANNOT "see" the kingdom of God

Jesus knew what Nicodemus was having a problem with
and also knew why Nicodemus asked that question in John 3:4

paxonel, you see, Nicodemus was confused about the entering aspect,
He was thinking, is it going to be his present body or would he have to return into his mother's womb for a re-birth?

paxonel, re-read Jesus' John 3:5 reply to Nicodemus bewilderment, like this:
"You are right Nicodemus,
I say to you, EXCEPT a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he CANNOT "enter" into the kingdom of God"

Nicodemus was like, OK, I've seen the demonstration and power of the Kingdom,
but my question now is, how do I enter the Kingdom.
What are the qualifications?
Remember Nicodemus was a Pharisee, and the Pharisees idea of what the Messiah and His Kingdom is or would be is different

Born Again isnt the false doctrine it's being built up to be,
but is a fact, reality and truth that, except a man, is biologically born of human being (i.e. born of water)
and spiritually born of God (i.e. born again, as in born from above, born of the Spirit) you cannot enter the kingdom

You, paxonel, is born of water and born again

Perfectbeing:
If people could be born again before Jesus' death like you said, then his death was a waste and his blood was shed for nothing..

"Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
- John 3:3

Perfectbeing, was the kingdom of God at this juncture and/or time seen or not seen?

jesusjnr:
It is ok if you disagree with my own opinion of when the disciples became born-again, but going by your own explanation that also meant that no one was also truly saved before resurrection of Jesus.

And that's inclusive of those who Jesus declared to be so, such as the sinner who anointed Him, unto whom He first said, "Thy sins are forgiven" and also "...Thy faith has saved thee: go in Peace"(Lk 7:48,50).

For at the time that Jesus said that to her, He hadn't yet resurrected, so her sins were not really forgiven and she also was not truly saved at the time that Jesus Himself said this to her, until his resurrection, as that was also what Jesus came to accomplish on Earth?

Jesusjnr, what's the purpose for Jesus' death? Since according to you, man could be saved before his death..

MuttleyLaff:
I hope you have the stamina because it is going to be a long read

"¹There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
²The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God:
for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
³Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
⁴Nicodemus saith unto him,
How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
⁵Jesus answered,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
⁶That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
⁷Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again"
- John 3:1-7

Very important bible useful rule of thumb, to remember, is that the bible wasnt originally in chapters and verses.
This why one needs to be so very careful when reading it

I love John chapter 3 a lot and have noticed that John chapter 3 actually and appropriately should have started from John 2:23
but it sad to see, many, be under a delusion or living in a fool's paradise, cavorting with the "born again" cliché

paxonel, someone like you and most are familiar with driving a car or riding a motor-cycle
know how a car's flat/dead battery is brought back to life
or know how a motor cycle thats being lying around or standing about for months/years is brought back to life

Now, here's the beginning of the point, here's how many so-called believers, "believers" and/or christians, misunderstand John chapter 3
and as a result, unnecessarily slip into resorting to using a "born again" cliché

I am unable to understand why some and/or others dont ever wonder why Jesus never publicly gave "born again" teaching.
Think about it. Not even one public teaching about "born again" did Jesus give
I guess it's because born from above also known as, born again, actually isn't a badge of honour, but is a matter of just fact
It is unneccessary to publicly teach a known fact

paxonel, well, what was Nicodemus opening remark and what was Jesus' immediate reply back to Nicodemus opening remark?
Tell now, repeat Nicodemus' question to Jesus now paxonel

The arresting point that got Nicodemus captivated was the mention of regeneration in Jesus' immediate reply to Nicodemus' opening remark.

Jesus said to Nicodemus, it takes one having a spirit renewal or spirit re-birth, to see and recognise the kingdom of God
Jesus said, except born from above, one cant accept the truth of nor admit the existence of the kingdom of God

If one isnt, then such one, will rubbish, ridicule, make fun of, poke fun at, make jokes about, scoff at, be sarcastic about the kingdom of God
Such one not born from above, will take the mickey out of demonstrations & power of the kingdom of God

Notice, it's, from being born from above, that one is be able to confess and acknowledge the demonstrations & power of the kingdom of God
and its' from being born of water and born from above, is the order for entering into the kingdom of God

paxonel, here is an illustration, to explain "see the kingdom of God" and "enter into the kingdom of God"
When you're on a plane from France to Ghana, with a connecting flight at Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, you land in Holland.
You dont go outside or beyond Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, you see Amsterdam city and/or Holland from inside Amsterdam Airport Schiphol,
Except you have the correct travelling documents etcetera, you cant go into town, cannot physically enter into Amsterdam city and/or Holland.
You will just see Holland and the city from whilst inside Amsterdam Airport Schiphol (i.e. the main international airport of the Netherlands)
but will not enter the city

Now lets rewind a bit paxonel
After dark one evening, Nicodemus came to speak with Jesus.
"Rabbi," he said,
"we all know that God has sent you to teach us.
Your miraculous signs are evidence that God is with you."
- John 3:2

Going back to John 3:2,
Nicodemus in John 3:2 managed to have seen somethings, he admitted and confirmed the origin of what hes being seeing
John 2:23 is testament to this
but Jesus switched gear on Nicodemus, Jesus changed from talking about "see the Kingdom'' to 'talking 'enter the Kingdom''
All this happened as a result of Nicodemus trying to make sense of Born Again and entering mother's womb
- paxonel, it is a fact, it is possible, we can see things of thing without entering the thing

People jumble two separate things together here paxonel.
Just because you cant enter into something, doesnt mean or imply you can't see the something

People see America, people watch America
but to enter into America, to set foot on American soil in America, requires certain criteria being met

Two people looking at the same thing at the same time,
both observing the same thing but only one is seeing something,
only one is admitting seeing what's being observed or only one confesses and acknowledges what was played out before them both

You see things when the spirit falls or rests on you
You can't see things unless you are born from above (i.e. you are born again)
You wont confess and acknowledge unless you are born from above (i.e. you are born again)

Please study John 3:1-3 by slowing reading but reading it out loud
Hope you notice how Nicodemus instigated Jesus switching the gear on him.
Jesus in responding to Nicodemus' admitted John 3:2 observances, decides to up the ante
from ''see the Kingdom'' to ''enter into the Kingdom'' after Nicodemus brought in the issue of re-entering a mother's womb

Nicodemus had no problem with Jesus' first reply
This is confirmed if John 3:3, is re-read like this:
You are right Nicodemus, I say to you, EXCEPT a man be born again, he CANNOT "see" the kingdom of God

Jesus knew what Nicodemus was having a problem with
and also knew why Nicodemus asked that question in John 3:4

paxonel, you see, Nicodemus was confused about the entering aspect,
He was thinking, is it going to be his present body or would he have to return into his mother's womb for a re-birth?

paxonel, re-read Jesus' John 3:5 reply to Nicodemus bewilderment, like this:
"You are right Nicodemus,
I say to you, EXCEPT a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he CANNOT "enter" into the kingdom of God"

Nicodemus was like, OK, I've seen the demonstration and power of the Kingdom,
but my question now is, how do I enter the Kingdom.
What are the qualifications?
Remember Nicodemus was a Pharisee, and the Pharisees idea of what the Messiah and His Kingdom is or would be is different

Born Again isnt the false doctrine it's being built up to be,
but is a fact, reality and truth that, except a man, is biologically born of human being (i.e. born of water)
and spiritually born of God (i.e. born again, as in born from above, born of the Spirit) you cannot enter the kingdom

You, paxonel, is born of water and born again

i have seen what you mean.

But how about the time factor?

Because we may read John 3 without considering the time of interaction between Jesus and nicodemus.

Was there salvation at the time Jesus met nicodemus?

If there was no salvation, assume nicodemus obeyed Jesus at that time and become born again, will he be saved simply because he became born again?

paxonel:
Born again simply means to become jesus disciple or follower as at the Jesus was never crucified or resurrected. At that time there was nothing like christianity, so christians saying they are born again is aberration and they are only ridicling themselves.

There is nothing like born again anymore

"Except a man is born again, he can never see the kingdom of God" - Jesus.

I want you to ponder on that.
Read the Bible if you have to and see his explanation of what born again means..

paxonel:
i have seen what you mean.

May God's blessing and grace not diminish from you

paxonel:
But how about the time factor?

Because we may read John 3 without considering the time of interaction between Jesus and Nicodemus.

Was there salvation at the time Jesus met nicodemus?

If there was no salvation, assume nicodemus obeyed Jesus at that time and become born again, will he be saved simply because he became born again?

Born Again preceded salvation
The disciples, Nicodemus and a lot others were already born again before getting the gift of salvation
It is highly unlikely, anyone will be born again and not have or get the gift of salvation

Since you didnt answer my "was the kingdom of God at this juncture and/or time seen or not seen?" question
Check out John 2:23 to read about people seeing the demostration of power of the kingdom of God
John 2:23, IMHO, is where John 3, should have actually and appropiately started.

Scoffers, mockers, cynics, pagans etcetera will never see anything good about the kingdom
and that's because they are not born again, are not born from above, are not spiritually rebirthed
Regeneration has not taken place in them

It didnt publicly need to be preached because it is a straightforward fact,
and Jesus was surprised that Nicodemus who happens to be a teacher, didnt know this and all

paxonel:
put it this way,
The time or era after Jesus crucifixion and resurrection till this moment is the kingdom of God(the time of christianity which is the time of salvation as there was no salvation until christ resurrected).
The era before Jesus was crucified was the days of John the baptist.
Right from the days of John the baptist the kingdom of God suffereth violence(verb), and the violent(collective nown) actually took that kingdom by force.

Now, who were the violent?

The violents were actually Jesus disciples (about 5000 of them trodding Jesus for 5 loaves and 2 fishes) who later ran away the moment Jesus was captured.

All these 5000 disciples were the born again.

How do i know?

Jesus told nicodemus.
Marvel not that i say you should be born again(meaning, i want to open up and tell you what i mean by born again). John 3:7

Then he came up with this parable in

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Now, these are the elements of the parable based on how Jesus interpreted his other previous parables.

The sound of wind represent the crowd of his disciples (over 5000 of them)
Nicodemus saw these crowd of people following Jesus, he could not tell where they were coming from and where they were going to. (Remember they were going to Jerusalem where Jesus was to be crucified but nicodemus didnt even know that)
These people were the born again because Jesus concluded to nicodemus, so is every one(of that time,take note of the timing) that is born of the spirit .

And i have said, all these people of that time ran away the moment Jesus was arrested, infact peter denied him three times.
Since they all ran away, born again siezed to exist.
There is nothing like born again today, rather we have christianity today.

All these things happened in the days of John the baptist which was the transition between the old covenant and the new covenant.
I can tell you emphatically that John the baptist was the founder of that born again covenant(if there was anything like that) because John the baptist himself was born again, yet he missed the kingdom (the new covenant).
The least person in the new covenant which is you and i, is greater than John the baptist and every born again who ran away and also missed the kingdom

From your first paragraph it seems you differed salvation from being born again... Is that the case?