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Stats: 2,187,662 members, 4,769,920 topics. Date: Tuesday, 19 February 2019 at 08:52 PM
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by alBHAGDADI: 7:57am On Feb 05|
First of all, do you think the Bible is like ABC where everything is spelt out for you? I just showed you a verse that states that the law changed as the priesthood changed. This means that the law that says agricultural produce is tithe has also been changed. Now, what can we say it changed into? Can we say it changed into stone? No, because stone cannot be used to run the house of God. Since everyone is not a farmer, especially when you can hardly find a farmer in many Churches today, what the priesthood authority changed the law form of tithing to is monetary tithing, that way everyone could participate.
It is that money that is used to fuel the big generators churches use, pay PHCN and waste management bills. They also pay Church workers from the money and even run other costs you might not know of. What you are saying is that churches should close down. Don't you know that churches will close down if there is no money coming in from tithes? All those in charge will leave and go get a job outside there you neglecting the work of God, which is exactly what Satan wants and has used people like you to propagate his mission.
If you are waiting to see a verse which specifically says money has replaced agricultural produce, then you will wait for all eternity until you start to read the Bible for deep knowledge.
While you are waiting, kindly show me where it is stated in a verse that Christians are to go to the toilet or use mobile phones.
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by alBHAGDADI: 8:01am On Feb 05|
If you believe I can't give 100%, then why are you still discouraging me from giving 10% which I can?
We can never stop calling tithe what it is. As long as no new Testament verse abolished it, then it remains. Trying to remove it is the same as trying to remove the word of God.
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by OkCornel(m): 10:18am On Feb 05|
You see your problem? When God gives instructions, He is very clear on where money was needed and where agro-produce was needed.
Where money was needed to cater for the daily needs of the temple, God levied all Israelite males from the age of 20 and upwards half a shekel as annual temple tax. That was a clear instance of God asking for money this was stated in Exodus 30 v 13-16
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by OkCornel(m): 10:21am On Feb 05|
When pro-tithers are ready to show us where God specifically mentioned money as part of the items to be tithed, then they should know that monetary tithing is unscriptural.
When God required money for the needs of the Temple, He specifically mentioned where all Israelite males should be levied a temple tax of half a shekel every year. That was an instance of God clearly asking for money.
Refer to Exodus 30 v 13-16 for where God gave the instruction through Moses;
BASED ON THE ABOVE, IT WAS CLEAR WHEN GOD ASKED FOR MONEY TO MAINTAIN THE TEMPLE... NOW LET US EXAMINE GOD'S REQUIREMENT FOR TITHES
Refer to Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29;
Based on the above verses, God clearly mentioned what is titheable, and money was not part of the items to be tithed.
So any fraudster that comes with the excuse that money was not in use because the Israelites were predominantly farmers and cattle rearers...should read Exodus 30 v 13-16 and explain to us why God demanded money from these same Israelites...but specified crops and livestock as tithes in Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29;
1) Where did God change the basis of tithe from agro-produce to money?
2) Where can we get scriptural references of Christians that gave monetary tithes?
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by desiredhome: 10:35am On Feb 05|
They keep lying even at the face of open truth, do they mean that people that pay tithe and seeds etc are living in a different planet? They are not going through the daily stress that is reducing the life span of an average Nigerian?
Does it mean your people don't fall sick or die?
The question now is what happened after paying all the tithe.........etc?
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by Horlufemi(m): 5:08pm On Feb 05|
Oga you have nothing to say. You are speaking from two sides of your mouth. You don't even understand what you are defending.
I believe I was discussing with someone else who knows better. Go face your god that needs money to bless and protect his creation. Thank you.
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by alBHAGDADI: 5:15pm On Feb 05|
The Bible passage you quoted is talking about money collected from people for the atonement of their souls. Was it everyday the money was collected? Also, are we to start collecting such just to run the house of God?
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by alBHAGDADI: 5:18pm On Feb 05|
How many times do I have to show you that the law on tithing has changed, hence the reason why money is collected?
You claim God used money collected from people who did atonement for their souls and used the money to maintain the temple.
Where is it stated in the new testament that we should do the same in order to maintain the house of God?
If you can't find it, then tell us how we are to maintain the house of our God.
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by alBHAGDADI: 5:19pm On Feb 05|
So you mean to say God lied when he said he would rebuke the devourer for our sake?
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by desiredhome: 10:15pm On Feb 05|
Are you now saying that no body that you know that have being paying tithe have ever been sick? or spent money on sickness
You mean bad thing only happen to only nontithers in this our Country?
Ofcourse God can not lie. But your pastors are the liers
that have twisted the scriptures
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
You can not ignore love, patience, mercy, unforgiveness, that are the Whitier matha and be concern with tithe that is less important.
Mathew 23:23, Mathew 5:23-24
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by desiredhome: 10:22pm On Feb 05|
So what then is the impact of the Church to the nigerian society today?
How come its only in Nigeria that about 90% people are Christian/Church goers yet we are poorest while countries with less churches are living better/quality life?
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by alBHAGDADI: 10:07am On Feb 06|
Blame that on our corrupt leaders. Or is it the churches that are looting Nigeria's wealth?
What about the countries who have no churches but Nigeria lives better than them?
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by alBHAGDADI: 10:10am On Feb 06|
Tithers fall sick too, but not to the extent where you they spend so much money just to get well. Ask Tithers, they don't lose money anyhow.
Yes, God is not a liar. But what you are saying is that he liked when he said he will rebuke the devourer for our sake.
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by OkCornel(m): 11:09am On Feb 06|
The money was collected annually. This practice continued after the Jews returned from exile under the stewardship of Nehemiah, although in his time, the levy was reduced to one-third of a shekel; refer to Nehemiah 10 v 32;
“We assume the responsibility for carrying out the commands to give a third of a shekel each year for the service of the house of our God"
This was the same temple tax Jesus/Peter paid for in Matthew 17 v 24-27.
Of course, the money was collected for the atonement of their souls, which also served as a critical source of financing the needs of the temple.
The summary of my gist is;
1) God's definition of tithe did not include money.
2) Where money was required to finance the needs of the Temple, there was a fixed levy on all Israelite males (aged 20 and above) to meet that purpose.
3) No where in the scriptures was there any requirement for Christians to tithe monetarily or via agro-produce...for the purpose of rebuking any devourer. That was a covenant applicable to the Judaizers.
4) The needs of the church was financed through freewill/cheerful giving.
5) If God has truly called one into ministry, He will touch the hearts of men to meet the needs of that minister. Money may or may not be required to meet such needs.
6) The emphasis on monetary tithes by Pastorprenuers clearly shows that they believe more in what money can do, rather than what God can do!
alBHAGDADI, what are the needs of the church that freewill/cheerful giving cannot address? Why the emphasis on monetary tithes and firstfruits which does not apply to Christians in the first place?
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by OkCornel(m): 11:14am On Feb 06|
Then the author of Hebrews (whom I assume is Paul, a former zealous custodian of the Law) should have levied monetary tithes on early Christians. Can you show us where the Paul or the Apostles made such request of monetary tithes from Christians?
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by desiredhome: 11:22am On Feb 06|
This is a very big lie, lie lie and deception, A very renowned RCCG state coordinator slumped and died at an airport in 2007, few days to their anual congress, another state pastors wife was on sick bed for a long time and eventually died of cancer, a countless number of your members had died either going to or returning from your camps by accident, are all these people not tithe payers?
Its so annoying when an adult will be lying and you call yourself a Christian .
Please stop this deception.
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by OkCornel(m): 11:28am On Feb 06|
This is why it is good to do some extensive research so you don't come up with fallacies and assumptions that cannot be backed up by the scriptures;
Check out Matthew Henry's commentary on Hebrews 7 v 11-25... which includes verse 12 you're twisting to validate monetary tithes, which is a fallacy.
THE TRUE/CONTEXTUAL MEANING OF HEBREWS 7 V 11-25;
The priesthood and law by which perfection could not come, are done away; a Priest is risen, and a dispensation now set up, by which true believers may be made perfect. That there is such a change is plain.
The law which made the Levitical priesthood, showed that the priests were frail, dying creatures, not able to save their own lives, much less could they save the souls of those who came to them.
But the High Priest of our profession holds his office by the power of endless life in himself; not only to keep himself alive, but to give spiritual and eternal life to all who rely upon his sacrifice and intercession.
The better covenant, of which Jesus was the Surety, is not here contrasted with the covenant of works, by which every transgressor is shut up under the curse.
It is distinguished from the Sinai covenant with Israel, and the legal dispensation under which the church so long remained. The better covenant brought the church and every believer into clearer light, more perfect liberty, and more abundant privileges.
In the order of Aaron there was a multitude of priests, of high priests one after another; but in the priesthood of Christ there is only one and the same.
This is the believer's safety and happiness, that this everlasting High Priest is able to save to the uttermost, in all times, in all cases. Surely then it becomes us to desire a spirituality and holiness, as much beyond those of the Old Testament believers, as our advantages exceed theirs.
Hebrews 7 v 12 has nothing to do with tithes changing from one form to the other!
Cc: Muttleylaff, desiredhome, bloodofthelamb
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by OkCornel(m): 11:29am On Feb 06|
Just wait till he tells you that the state coordinator is not a faithful tither...
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by desiredhome: 1:15pm On Feb 06|
That was how one of the winners pastor pregnant wife died because instead of going to hospital for proper treatment, she was depending on Papa say, Papa say, I am a thither, bla bla bla, and taking communion till she died, Meanwhile, when their papas wife was sick, she didn't depend on communion, she was flown abroad with the private jet bought with your tithe and offering,
How long will you they continue in their darkness.
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by alBHAGDADI: 4:49pm On Feb 06|
You are such a ridiculous person for telling me to take a certain Henry's commentary on a Bible passage over what the Holy Spirit says.
Is Henry now the Holy Spirit which Jesus said will teach and guide us into all things?
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Instead of you guys to accept Jesus Christ and believe he died for your sins and that nothing can ever make you lose your salvation, you instead reject him and believe you can save yourself by not sinning.
Rejecting Jesus means you won't have the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit you can't understand the Bible, that's why you rely on mere men to teach you, and they do so with falsehood.
1 Corinthians 2:14 King James Version (KJV)
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by alBHAGDADI: 4:52pm On Feb 06|
RCCG is not God's house because they don't believe in Once Saved Always Saved. They preach works based salvation which is a fraud.
So, all those paying tithe to that church are only fooling themselves because the money is not getting to God.
If you bank with GTBank but I sent money to you through First Bank, are you going to receive it? No
All those people you mentioned above need to find God's Bank and pay their tithe there.
Regardless, people still die however. Are you saying Hod wasn't with Peter and Paul who were murdered?
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by OkCornel(m): 4:52pm On Feb 06|
You're the ridiculous person here!
Bring one commentary or footnote or scriptural reference the proves Hebrews 7 v 12 changed the object of tithes from agroproduce to money!
If you have no scripture to backup your empty claims then check out the lying spirit that has been ministering to you!
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by alBHAGDADI: 4:56pm On Feb 06|
Can you show me where Paul or the Apostles used mobile phones or went to the toilet?
Jesus and Paul spoke of tithe in a manner that didn't condemn it but approved it as something good. When they spoke of tithe as seen below, if it was something abolished, wasn't that a good opportunity for them to clearly state it? But they didn't. Yet you ordinary man wants to abolish what they didn't abolish.
To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Matthew 23:23 King James Version (KJV)
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by alBHAGDADI: 4:59pm On Feb 06|
I'm backing it up with the Holy Spirit. If you can't accept that, then it's your cup of tea.
Keep relying on commentaries written by mere men, perhaps daddy Freeze is one of them.
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by OkCornel(m): 5:53pm On Feb 06|
And this your "Holy Spirit" cannot show you one scriptural reference where christians gave monetary tithes to prove your empty assumptions on Hebrews 7 v 12?
Keep up with the lies...even the Devil is learning...
And perhaps, all the commentaries written by "mere men" are 100% wrong, but you are 100% right abi? Oh wait a minute! The bible you're reading was written by God abi?
Check it, you're being delusional.
No scriptural reference to back up monetary tithes vis-a-vis Hebrews 7 v 12; and you're lying ontop of the Holy Spirit all because of money...
Well done... Heaven and Earth is bearing record of this blasphemy...
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by OkCornel(m): 5:59pm On Feb 06|
Next time, open your eyes and read.
Hebrews 7 v 2 mentions Abram (who lived before the era of the Law) tithing voluntarily out of war booty, and not his monetary income or possessions. Tell us how a once in a lifetime tithe from war booty should serve as basis to part with a tenth of one's monetary income!
Matthew 23 v 23 mentions tithe of mint, anise and cummin. Does that sound like money to you?
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by desiredhome: 6:10pm On Feb 06|
I thought I was replying a normal human being, now I know..
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by OkCornel(m): 6:16pm On Feb 06|
That dude has lost it. Check out the lies he has been propagating on nairaland just to defend the tithe and firstfruit falsehood;
1) Pastors are Spiritual Levites
2) The tree of knowledge of good and evil is Adam and Eve's tithe
3) Hebrews 7 v 12 means that a change in the Law automatically means that tithe changed from agro-produce to money...
And some other lies he cannot back up with the scriptures...
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by desiredhome: 6:38pm On Feb 06|
I don't blame him, it's just the wickedness of man, when you hear what people do for money, cases where you hear people being buried alive just to pull crowd, such people can do anything to defend these evil knowingly or unknowingly because they are under a spell. I pray God will save us from these evil men.
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by alBHAGDADI: 8:11pm On Feb 06|
Do you think Abraham did what he did without being told?
All what Abraham did were by faith in God. He heard the voice of God telling him to do what he did.
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Now, how do we know what God's laws, statutes and commandments Abraham obeyed? We know all of that by reading the things Abraham did in the book of Genesis. Tithing is one of them.
The spoils of war is not a bad property because there is no law in the Bible against such.
Read Hebrews 7 to see how Paul spoke of how the law changed especially concerning tithe. That's how it changed into money.
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by alBHAGDADI: 8:16pm On Feb 06|
Let me prove to you why you don't understand all I stated up there.
First answer the questions:
Do you believe Jesus died for your sins?
If you did now, why do you think you might not make heaven?
The answer to those questions will show why you don't understand what I stated up there.
|Re: It Is Not The Law Of Moses But God Himself That Tells Us To Give First Fruit by OkCornel(m): 8:40pm On Feb 06|
Oh... so Paul mentioned that Christians should tithe monetarily? Where exactly did Paul mention that? And where can we get biblical examples of Christians that gave monetary tithes?
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