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God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. - Religion (3) - Nairaland

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Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 10:55pm On Jan 07
MuttleyLaff:
Wow how did I miss this, so budaatum what exactly is being achieved from God?
Seems God was doing quality control, as in, are these humans any more obedient than some of my previous creations, the angels. But that's me guessing.

You tell, muttley, what exactly was God trying to achieve?

3 Likes

Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by HellVictorinho(m): 10:58pm On Jan 07
MuttleyLaff:
Wow how did I miss this, so budaatum what exactly is being achieved from God:
1/ Simply not pointing it out might have made them less curious about it?
2/ Planting it where they couldn't see it might have made it less obvious?
3/ Making it a very tall tree might have made it's fruit unreachable.
4/ Making the fruit unedible is also an option along with creating Adam and Eve to go blind when looking in the general direction of said tree.

budaatum, hypothetically speaking, if the shoe were on the other foot, and it is you who happens to be Adam, what would you do and/or have done when God warned you about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, telling you, not to eat from eat and that if you do you will die?
The tree was part of the game.
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by HellVictorinho(m): 10:58pm On Jan 07
MuttleyLaff:
Wow how did I miss this, so budaatum what exactly is being achieved from God:
1/ Simply not pointing it out might have made them less curious about it?
2/ Planting it where they couldn't see it might have made it less obvious?
3/ Making it a very tall tree might have made it's fruit unreachable.
4/ Making the fruit unedible is also an option along with creating Adam and Eve to go blind when looking in the general direction of said tree.

budaatum, hypothetically speaking, if the shoe were on the other foot, and it is you who happens to be Adam, what would you do and/or have done when God warned you about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, telling you, not to eat from eat and that if you do you will die?
The tree was part of the game.
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 10:58pm On Jan 07
budaatum:
You know me muttley, I just love testing things for myself. Soon as God turned its back, I'm having me some of that fruit, and I wouldn't be needing no serpent or Eve to tell me to. And when God starts telling me I'd work for my food and all and I didn't end up dying like was said I would, I'd be placing God under the Iiar column from thereon. About making me walk around Unclad!.

But all that wouldn't really have mattered since I'd have been kicked out of the Garden of Eden along with Satan long before that to be honest
There you are budaatum, that's exactly part of the problems that's what's to solve, like the: disobedience, lack of self control, disloyality, stealing and/or thieving, covetousness, lust, pilfering, blame-shifting, remorselessness etcetera
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 11:10pm On Jan 07
MuttleyLaff:
There you are budaatum, that's exactly part of the problems that's what's to solve, like the: disobedience, lack of self control, disloyality, stealing and/or thieving, covetousness, lust, pilfering, blame-shifting, remorselessness etcetera
Hey what the fuq! How did it's planting of a tree with fruit it knew I'd eat solve "disobedience, lack of self control, disloyality, stealing and/or thieving, covetousness, lust, pilfering, blame-shifting, remorselessness etcetera"? God must be a rotten lousy creator or couldn't it have created me without all those defects to start with? Says a lot about its omniknowitall!

I'm just glad it didn't extend it's creation to cars, or houses. They'd all have been lemons without proper working parts!

2 Likes

Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by TheArranger: 11:18pm On Jan 07
Omnipresent:
You all disturbing my mention with your omnipresent religious stuff
Lol, Guy change your username cos we're going to be using that name a lot in these parts of NL grin

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Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 11:35pm On Jan 07
budaatum:
Hey what the fuq! How did it's planting of a tree with fruit it knew I'd eat solve "disobedience, lack of self control, disloyality, stealing and/or thieving, covetousness, lust, pilfering, blame-shifting, remorselessness etcetera"?
The end justifies the means budaatum

budaatum:
God must be a rotten lousy creator or couldn't it have created me without all those defects to start with? Says a lot about its omniknowitall!
Adam to start with, was created without all those defects but as the saying goes budaatum:"There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death."

budaatum:
I'm just glad it didn't extend it's creation to cars, or houses. They'd all have been lemons without proper working parts!
The power to create cars or build houses was given to the creation by the Creator.
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 11:44pm On Jan 07
MuttleyLaff:
The end justifies the means budaatum
That end being what exactly? Quality control of its own abilities to create? Well, God did a lousy job and should perhaps try a different profession, or just give up already!

MuttleyLaff:
The end justifies the means budaatum
Adam to start with, was created without all those defects but as the saying goes budaatum:[/quote]
That can't possibly be true! No modification occurred from when Adam was created to when he ate the fruit! The defects must have been there all along.

Besides, we see those defects in its creation prior to humans. Or didn't Creation Mark 1, the angels, have those defects too? In fact, I'm beginning to wonder about all those other planets now. Perhaps they too were defects before it got it right with earth!

MuttleyLaff:
The end justifies the means budaatum. The power to create cars or build houses was given to the creation by the Creator.
I'm just glad they learnt to create better than their creator did.
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 11:55pm On Jan 07
budaatum:
Seems God was doing quality control, as in, are these humans any more obedient than some of my previous creations, the angels. But that's me guessing.

You tell, muttley, what exactly was God trying to achieve?
I liked that post for the good attempt response.
In a nutshell, it is quality control but then before that, there is this other thing that needs being resolved plus ultimately once and for all taken care of
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 12:04am On Jan 08
MuttleyLaff:
I liked that post for the good attempt response.
In a nutshell, it is quality control but then before that, there is this other thing that needs being resolved plus ultimately once and for all taken care of
Stop dithering muttley. You know I only appreciate your a-game, the one that involves your brain. What other thing needs being resolved and taken care of? What exactly was God trying to achieve?
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 12:12am On Jan 08
budaatum:
Stop dithering muttley. You know I only appreciate your a-game, the one that involves you brain. What other thing needs being resolved and taken care of? What exactly was God trying to achieve?
Sin was, before the existence of Adam. Adam is the product of the saying: "necessity is the mother of invention" Of course when I say Adam, I am by extension, also making reference to human beings necessary and needed to fill up the vacuum created by the renegade third of innumerable angels
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 12:59am On Jan 08
MuttleyLaff:
Sin was, before the existence of Adam. Adam is the product of the saying: "necessity is the mother of invention" Of course when I say Adam, I am by extension, also making reference to human beings necessary and needed to fill up the vacuum created by the renegade third of innumerable angels
Are you suggesting God included sin in Adam's design? To what end? And what vacuum are you referring to? Unclad slaves to tend God's garden, perhaps?

You're making your God sound more and more like some slave overlord! And to be honest, all you Christians who worship it sound more like slaves than the gods who would do more than he did that Jesus was trying to make you into. Makes me want to ask if Jesus too hadn't just rebelled against God to come and make you all it's equal, a point Christianity seems to have excluded from its teachings.
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 1:34am On Jan 08
budaatum:
Are you suggesting God included sin in Adam's design? To what end? And what vacuum are you referring to? Unclad slaves to tend God's garden, perhaps?

You're making your God sound more and more like some slave overlord! And to be honest, all you Christians who worship it sound more like slaves than the gods who would do more than he did that Jesus was trying to make you into. Makes me want to ask if Jesus too hadn't just rebelled against God to come and make you all it's equal, a point Christianity seems to have excluded from its teachings.
What is sin?
Sin is missing the mark or standard, means missing God's mark or God's standard. Actually, as in like an archer missing hit the target bull's eye.

God did not include sin in Adam's design. Adam committed sin when he took possesion of somebody's else property. Sin entered the world, entered the system because of what Adam did. Briskly following sin was death with a whole lot bunch of nasties mingled up with delightfuls in close pursuit

One third of the innumerable angelic hosts decamped from God, commiting sin with Satan. These equated to the two situational problems God set out to resolve. Replace with human beings and sort out sin, once and for all

Adam and Eve before the fall, werent starkers, as you'll like to believe. They were clothed with the righteousness of God. It was after the fall, they realised they've lost it and since then were starkers
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 2:14am On Jan 08
MuttleyLaff:
What is sin?
Sin is missing the mark or standard, means missing God's mark or God's standard. Actually, as in like an archer missing hit the target bull's eye.

God did not include sin in Adam's design. Adam committed sin when he took possesion of somebody's else property. Sin entered the world, entered the system because of what Adam did. Briskly following sin was death with a whole lot bunch of nasties mingled up with delightfuls in close pursuit

One third of the innumerable angelic hosts decamped from God, commiting sin with Satan. These equated to the two situational problems God set out to resolve. Replace with human beings and sort out sin, once and for all

Adam and Eve before the fall, werent starkers, as you'll like to believe. They were clothed with the righteousness of God. It was after the fall, they realised they've lost it and since then were starkers
Muttley, if someone else was writing what you're writing, I'm sure you be pointing out the flaws in their reasoning. You really need to try to hear yourself.

So "Sin entered the world, entered the system because of what Adam did". The same sin that the angels already committed before Adam was created?
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 7:25am On Jan 08
budaatum:
Muttley, if someone else was writing what you're writing, I'm sure you be pointing out the flaws in their reasoning. You really need to try to hear yourself.

So "Sin entered the world, entered the system because of what Adam did". The same sin that the angels already committed before Adam was created?
Remember you asked: "Are you suggesting God included sin in Adam's design?"

and I replied with:
"God did not include sin in Adam's design. Adam committed sin when he took possesion of somebody's else property. Sin entered the world, entered the system because of what Adam did. Briskly following sin was death with a whole lot bunch of nasties mingled up with delightfuls in close pursuit"

Like I earlier pointed out, sin is missing the mark or standard, means missing God's mark or God's standard. Actually, as in like an archer missing hit the target bull's eye. Adam hadnt ever sin until he took of the fruit. That is how sin entered Adam's world. It is the same sin, using your phraseology, is one of the two situational problems that existed before Adam was, that I earlier said God is on a mission of resolving, ultimately upon mission accomplished sin will be no more. When reference to or mention of sin is done, please keep in mind, the Jewish and/or biblical definition of sin
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by ochibuogwu5: 7:37am On Jan 08
UNTIL THE GRACE OF JESUS CHRIST IS RELEASED UNTO YOUR SOUL; YOU WILL CONTINUE TO DOUBT OR LACK THE COMPLETE GRASP OF GOD'S WAYS
THE POWER OF JESUS CHRIST GRACE:
As Jesus Christ speaks to us in his gospels/Scriptures, something precedes his truth to make us *understand, believe and compel us to use/act/obey* on his word AND THAT THING IS *GRACE*
The Grace of GOD does not just allow you hear the words of the sound gospel by *informing you* rather *it forcefully compels you to obey and practice righteousness with effortless input/ease*
Grace is what makes a Christian to willingly obey God's righteous standards from *within* without anybody in the *external telling you what to do and what not to do*

Any gospel that is not preceded by Grace will only *kill a man's soul* just like *hearing the law of Moses* and later leave him/her more *hardened in committing sin*
hence we need to always ask the Holy Spirit to fill his words that we study and preach with *his grace* so that we shall always be *compelled to obey* every instruction from the Holy Spirit for our lives *to the end* thus "the grace of GOD *teaches us* to live upright, Godly and self-controlled life in this generation(2019)..." {Titus 2:11-12}
If you care more check youtube for *gbile akanni*
MAY THE HOLY SPIRIT RELEASE HIS GRACE UNTO YOUR WHOLE BEING; SPIRIT, SOUL AND BODY IN JESUS NAME. AMEN.
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 10:24am On Jan 08
Was Adam's world different to the one the sinning devil was cast out into, muttley!? Is it not actually true that the casting out of the devil into the world was what brought sin into the world?

You sure like muttleying yourself up muttley. If there was a devil, I'd claim it helps you muttley yourself sometimes, but honestly, you muttley yourself up all by yourself! What amazes me is that you are very smart too. So how you could possibly use that smartness in the muttley way you do is a wonder.

Where you the child of a reverend, or something and got filled this your reasoning and nothing else from a very early age? Anyone else would at least consider the facts with their own (God given, in your case) brain, instead of trying to twist the facts to fit what they have been told to believe is true.

Anyway, you still haven't answered my question.

What exactly was God trying to achieve by tempting Adam with the fruits of a tree it would rather they don't eat?

MuttleyLaff:
Remember you asked: "Are you suggesting God included sin in Adam's design?"

and I replied with:
"God did not include sin in Adam's design. Adam committed sin when he took possesion of somebody's else property. Sin entered the world, entered the system because of what Adam did. Briskly following sin was death with a whole lot bunch of nasties mingled up with delightfuls in close pursuit"

Like I earlier pointed out, sin is missing the mark or standard, means missing God's mark or God's standard. Actually, as in like an archer missing hit the target bull's eye. Adam hadnt ever sin until he took of the fruit. That is how sin entered Adam's world. It is the same sin, using your phraseology, is one of the two situational problems that existed before Adam was, that I earlier said God is on a mission of resolving, ultimately upon mission accomplished sin will be no more. When reference to or mention of sin is done, please keep in mind, the Jewish and/or biblical definition of sin

2 Likes

Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by aadoiza: 1:31pm On Jan 08
LordReed:


I literally had headaches thinking about the characteristics of the god as a Christian. It was like trying to untangle a ball of spaghetti with every strand leading to madness.
Funny guy. That's how it's supposed to be for we're limited in our understanding.
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by HellVictorinho(m): 2:17pm On Jan 08
Religion is a Crime against Humanity.
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by TheArranger: 5:54pm On Jan 08
ochibuogwu5:
UNTIL THE GRACE OF JESUS CHRIST IS RELEASED UNTO YOUR SOUL; YOU WILL CONTINUE TO DOUBT OR LACK THE COMPLETE GRASP OF GOD'S WAYS
THE POWER OF JESUS CHRIST GRACE:
As Jesus Christ speaks to us in his gospels/Scriptures, something precedes his truth to make us *understand, believe and compel us to use/act/obey* on his word AND THAT THING IS *GRACE*
The Grace of GOD does not just allow you hear the words of the sound gospel by *informing you* rather *it forcefully compels you to obey and practice righteousness with effortless input/ease*
Grace is what makes a Christian to willingly obey God's righteous standards from *within* without anybody in the *external telling you what to do and what not to do*

Any gospel that is not preceded by Grace will only *kill a man's soul* just like *hearing the law of Moses* and later leave him/her more *hardened in committing sin*
hence we need to always ask the Holy Spirit to fill his words that we study and preach with *his grace* so that we shall always be *compelled to obey* every instruction from the Holy Spirit for our lives *to the end* thus "the grace of GOD *teaches us* to live upright, Godly and self-controlled life in this generation(2019)..." {Titus 2:11-12}
If you care more check youtube for *gbile akanni*
MAY THE HOLY SPIRIT RELEASE HIS GRACE UNTO YOUR WHOLE BEING; SPIRIT, SOUL AND BODY IN JESUS NAME. AMEN.
Pffft... dumbass grin

3 Likes

Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by finalboss(m): 5:59pm On Jan 08
OpenYourEyes1:
“Look! The time is coming when the signs appear that I told you about in advance, and the city will appear, appearing as a bride, and the land that is now hidden will be openly displayed.
Everyone who is rescued from the evils foretold will see my wonders.
My Son the anointed one will be revealed along with those who are with him, and those who remain will rejoice for four hundred years." - 2Esdras 7:21—26

1 Like

Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Ihedinobi3: 7:42pm On Jan 08
TheArranger:
Just to clarify, I am not debating free will in general, as that is a completely different topic.

God's plan, put simply, is that we would be tested on Earth, and those of us who were good would go to heaven. I have always been told that this includes us having free will. However, God is said to be omnipotent. If God can see the future, than it is predetermined, and therefore, we can't have free will. If we don't have free will, God is knowingly sending people towards damnation, is he not?

In my opinion God's omnipotence contradicts the requirement for free will in God's plan.

Cc. Ranchhoddas, budaatum, OtemAtum, LordReed, jesusjnr, Michellekabod1, luvmijeje, finalboss, TATIME, MuttleyLaff, JMAN05, HellVictorinho, HardMirror, Akin1212, XxSabrinaxX, vaxx, ihedinobi3, Dantedasz, Rebekkah
But you are debating free will in general. I don't see how you are not.

This "problem" you have stated is a popular one in philosophy and a much-loved one by atheists. But it is actually a non sequitur. There is no connection really between God's Omniscience (that is the attribute you want, not Omnipotence) and free will. An easy way to prove this (not that anyone can or has ever been convinced by it) is to attempt to describe a causal relationship between certain knowledge of an action beforehand and the action itself. To demonstrate, if I know for certain that you will respond to this post, have I thus caused you to do so? Clearly not.

But, it is true that not a single thing would happen unless God ordained that it would. So, I should explain free will from the Bible's perspective.

Free will is the moral creature's God-given right to choose whether to submit to God or to rebel against Him. But because nothing at all can happen unless God empowers it, our choices were all ordained by God before He even created anything. These choices however were ordained because God knew for certain exactly what each of us want to choose. That is, God knew that Pharaoh, for example, would not want to submit to Him, so He made him so that he would choose not to. For an opposite example, God knew that David would want to be devoted to Him, so He made him so that he would choose to be.

What this means is that free will is a true ability that creatures possess to decide their own eternal fate. God's Own Part is to make those choices possible since He alone can because of both His Omniscience and His Omnipotence.

So, rather than there be mutual exclusivity between God's Omniscience and Omnipotence and free will, the latter is possible because of the former.

1 Like

Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by LordReed(m): 7:18am On Jan 09
aadoiza:

Funny guy. That's how it's supposed to be for we're limited in our understanding.

And so we should take it on faith? Based on what other equally limited men tell us about the god?
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by theoriginalgood: 10:49am On Jan 09
If I’m correct, Omnipotent means being able to do anything good? God will therefore use his ultimate power to revive sinners into Saints. This is the ultimate miracle isn’t it?
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by budaatum: 2:40pm On Jan 09
Where are you? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you to eat from? Do you now know that you were Unclad?
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Akin1212(m): 4:08pm On Jan 09
Why would an omnipotent God even need 6 whole days to create everything? A God that can do everything wouldn't even need up to a second.

1 Like

Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by JMAN05: 4:16pm On Jan 09
Ihedinobi3:

But you are debating free will in general. I don't see how you are not.

This "problem" you have stated is a popular one in philosophy and a much-loved one by atheists. But it is actually a non sequitur. There is no connection really between God's Omniscience (that is the attribute you want, not Omnipotence) and free will. An easy way to prove this (not that anyone can or has ever been convinced by it) is to attempt to describe a causal relationship between certain knowledge of an action beforehand and the action itself. To demonstrate, if I know for certain that you will respond to this post, have I thus caused you to do so? Clearly not.

But, it is true that not a single thing would happen unless God ordained that it would. So, I should explain free will from the Bible's perspective.

Free will is the moral creature's God-given right to choose whether to submit to God or to rebel against Him. But because nothing at all can happen unless God empowers it, our choices were all ordained by God before He even created anything. These choices however were ordained because God knew for certain exactly what each of us want to choose. That is, God knew that Pharaoh, for example, would not want to submit to Him, so He made him so that he would choose not to. For an opposite example, God knew that David would want to be devoted to Him, so He made him so that he would choose to be.

What this means is that free will is a true ability that creatures possess to decide their own eternal fate. God's Own Part is to make those choices possible since He alone can because of both His Omniscience and His Omnipotence.

So, rather than there be mutual exclusivity between God's Omniscience and Omnipotence and free will, the latter is possible because of the former.

Will your view not imply that has doom in mind for his creatures? He foresaw disobedience of Adam and Eve knew that there actions will result to death of millions. (For hellfire believers) prepared an eternal torment for them, and stated that His will is not that any be destroyed.

2. Will your view not imply that God does not have a perfect choice of a human who can do better than Adam and Eve, and who would bring His will to fulfillment at the first instance?

3. Who are we to blame, the engineer that saw that his robot would cause mayhem, and goes on to make it, or the robot who knew nothing about existence but was made anyway? If you will that your house doesn't get burned, why pour fuel and have it torched? Again, I know that my son is immoral and he refuses to change, but I looked him with my maid inside a room for two days. The expected happened, now I come and say "oh it was not my will".

2 Likes

Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by finalboss(m): 4:29pm On Jan 09
Akin1212:
Why would an omnipotent God even need 6 whole days to create everything? A God that can do everything wouldn't even need up to a second.
He must be very lazy.

1 Like

Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by aadoiza: 4:42pm On Jan 09
LordReed:


And so we should take it on faith? Based on what other equally limited men tell us about the god?
Those men are not as limited as we are and are messengers of God.
God's ways are not always easy to explain and so it's all right to ask questions, even though we may never find answers to most of them.
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by MuttleyLaff: 4:43pm On Jan 09
budaatum:
Was Adam's world different to the one the sinning devil was cast out into, muttley!?
Yep, it was different. The difference is that Satan was in heaven and Adam was on earth

budaatum:
Is it not actually true that the casting out of the devil into the world was what brought sin into the world?
That is not true. Adam eating of the fruit is through what sin got brought into Adam's world, the world system

budaatum:
You sure like muttleying yourself up muttley. If there was a devil, I'd claim it helps you muttley yourself sometimes, but honestly, you muttley yourself up all by yourself! What amazes me is that you are very smart too. So how you could possibly use that smartness in the muttley way you do is a wonder.

Where you the child of a reverend, or something and got filled this your reasoning and nothing else from a very early age? Anyone else would at least consider the facts with their own (God given, in your case) brain, instead of trying to twist the facts to fit what they have been told to believe is true.

Anyway, you still haven't answered my question.
Oh you're done, going off on a rant and rave, right?

budaatum:
What exactly was God trying to achieve by tempting Adam with the fruits of a tree it would rather they don't eat?
God does not tempt. You need to rework your question and/or rephrase it

budaatum:
Where are you? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you to eat from? Do you now know that you were Unclad?
They are rhetorical questions budaatum, besides, you seem to always harp on about this being Unclad malarkey and not understanding that he had the clothe of righteousness on before but ruined and lost it after eating the fruit. Check this out, I went to work, without my y-fronts on, I felt Unclad.
Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by Ihedinobi3: 4:53pm On Jan 09
JMAN05:


Will your view not imply that has doom in mind for his creatures? He foresaw disobedience of Adam and Eve knew that there actions will result to death of millions. (For hellfire believers) prepared an eternal torment for them, and stated that His will is not that any be destroyed.
Why would it imply such a thing?


JMAN05:
2. Will your view not imply that God does not have a perfect choice of a human who can do better than Adam and Eve, and who would bring His will to fulfillment at the first instance?
What? I am afraid I don't follow. What exactly are you saying here?


JMAN05:
3. Who are we to blame, the engineer that saw that his robot would cause mayhem, and goes on to make it, or the robot who knew nothing about existence but was made anyway? If you will that your house doesn't get burned, why pour fuel and have it torched? Again, I know that my son is immoral and he refuses to change, but I looked him with my maid inside a room for two days. The expected happened, now I come and say "oh it was not my will".
I cannot see how this in any way derives from my argument. I don't see anything about God's Plan that involves robots. Quite the opposite. I also don't see anything at all in His Plan that suggests that Adam and Eve were immoral or inclined to sin in any way. Quite the opposite in fact.

1 Like

Re: God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. by LordReed(m): 5:27pm On Jan 09
aadoiza:

Those men are not as limited as we are and are messengers of God.
God's ways are not always easy to explain and so it's all right to ask questions, even though we may never find answers to most of them.

LoL so with no way to confirm if what they say is true we should just accept their word for it? LMFAO! No wonder all these pastors are driving Rolls Royce upanddan. LMFAO!

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