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Stats: 2,525,591 members, 5,780,696 topics. Date: Monday, 10 August 2020 at 11:41 AM
Concerning Tithes, Offerings, Firstfruits & Partnerships - Giving The Right Way / The Matter Of Tithing: My Personal Encounter With The Bible / Have You Ever Been Blessed Through Tithing And Giving In Church? (2) (3) (4)
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 3:47pm On Jun 07, 2019|
OkCornel:Yes why is giving SPARINGLY is being discussed in the Bible with believers?
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 3:58pm On Jun 07, 2019|
You see ehn, this part of your quote I bolded is really what irritates me when one really does not have an answer to my questions.
You want me to answer your questions first even when I was the first to ask you questions. I have seen this game play itself out many times...and I'm not falling for it.
When the Spirit leads me to give, you expect me to keep records and be calculating the eventual percentage of givings versus my earnings? To prove what exactly?
I can give my entire allowance this month, it could be 15% another month, 35% another month as led by the Spirit. Would you still go ahead and call me a person stingy or someone who gives sparingly?
AGAIN I ASK YOU, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST ANYONE WHO GIVES AS LED BY THE SPIRIT?
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 3:59pm On Jun 07, 2019|
Please show us what percentage Jesus or the Apostles used to define as giving sparingly?
I don't think I'm asking for too much here... Just give us scriptural references as it pertains to giving under the new covenant...
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 4:14pm On Jun 07, 2019|
Please don't lie here.
1) You accused me of calling you BABA, where did I call you BABA? You are yet to answer me on that...
2) You said this;
You have heard it written that GOD IS ETERNAL. If He said something in time past (and you know Jesus never said that we should stop tithing) it is relevant for ever.
I then asked you, that since God's basis of tithing is on crops and livestock, who changed it to money? Was it God? This was your response;
You started well but gradually have resulted to discredit me, because you are not paying attention or learning from our discussion. I have mentioned to you that I am not a tither but you keep repeating questions about old testament tithing to me so I cannot answer that till I am sure you understand my point of view.
I then asked, Please where does new testament tithing (if there's anything like that) change tithing from agro-produce to money?
You are yet to answer this!
3) You said this;
Even the old testament sometimes refer to that figure in mathematics directly in some portion like Malachi 3:10, which I explained to you includes our offerings and tithings that we rob God of, or else why is the word offering not used here again when it comes to the blessing part? Because there is only one word for onetenth and that is the word TITHE. If I am talking about 20% in Italian, I would be calling it VENTESIMA, but here I am talking about measurement against measurement DECIMA that we can find a leverage to know how to avoid giving sparingly. That quantity was not used in Bible by accident, because it has a great significance or lessons attached to it. I mentioned how the Italian goverment would arrest a billionaire who gives 0.005% as tax, because here we pay tax up to 27% or more. So God is being meaningless or ritualistic to us when He used 10% as gauge to bless us?
And I asked; Bro... calm down. This 10% stuff, which set of people did God use 10% as a gauge to bless? The Judaizers or the Christians?
Still, I am yet to get a response on this as well!
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 4:15pm On Jun 07, 2019|
OkCornel:Now I am doubful about your mathematical skills! You have blamed me, now is my turn to blame you. Christianity have all these problems caused by lazy people like you who do not want to be educated, are careless with spiritual things, do not keep track of what God is doing. Even simple English in the Bible is deemed too symbolic or figurative. And trying out the WORD is left to those who believe in BEING ritualistic. The Spirit leading us is tantamount to freedom to do anything.
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 4:16pm On Jun 07, 2019|
My question is very simple and straight forward...
Where in the scriptures was a certain percentage defined as giving sparingly under the new covenant?
Is this question too hard to answer?
May God forgive you for the bolded part of your text. Please where did the Spirit lead anyone in the old or new testament to sin? I am awaiting your answers...
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 4:20pm On Jun 07, 2019|
OkCornel:Please do respond. Is the word TITHE found in the New Testament or not?
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 4:20pm On Jun 07, 2019|
Yes it is.
Please tell us if this tithe changed from tithing on agro-produce to tithing with money...
You are also yet to show me where I called you BABA...
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 4:23pm On Jun 07, 2019|
OkCornel:If the word tithing is found in the New Testament more than once, then we will review our knowledge how we make doctrines out of NEW TESTAMENT scriptures and call it the NEW COVENANT.
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 4:27pm On Jun 07, 2019|
Bros, did tithing change from agro-produce to money in the new testament? If it did, please show us where...
In what context what tithing used in the new testament?
1) Where Jesus used it to rebuke the Pharisees and Sadducees on misplaced priority? Or where He mentioned their tithing was done on even dill, mint and cummin (which are crops)?
2) Also in the letter to the Hebrews (Yes, the Jews whom God made tithing compulsory for). You should ask why this matter of tithing did not feature in the Apostolic letters to the gentiles. That should ring a bell already...
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 4:39pm On Jun 07, 2019|
OkCornel:Please stop being dull, tithing is not agro produce, you look foolish here. In the book of Hebrew 7:2 the bible says "This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2and Abraham apportioned to him a tenth of everything. First, his name means “king of righteousness.” Then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3Without father or mother or genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God, he remains a priest for all time.…"
Can you see the words a TENTH of everything? This happened before the LAW. May be this happened during the law period, and this one that happened before the LAW is being quoted for us in NEW TESTAMENT. We have used so many scriptures in the new testament to teach, what nullifies this one from us using it TO TEACH? Mind you, before you quote the law again, this was not under the LAW of Moses. And whom was these tenth given to... the KING OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THE KING OF PEACE. And this same MELCHIZEDEK is whom the same Bible stated that Jesus was made "A HIGH PRIEST FOREVER IN THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK".
If I give tenth of my everything to JESUS willingly, how is it bounded by the LAW? Now is this portion referring to tithing under the law, your agro feeds, or the spoils of war, or everything that Abraham have? And this same Hebrew warned us that the lesser man is blessed by the greater man, that is why Melchizedek blessed Abraham, so who is this man that is greater than Abraham, and the Levitical priesthood inside the womb of Abraham... that even Jesus priesthood comes in his order or rank. Therefore the bible teaches us in Hebrew this man priesthood is eternal, he has no father, or mother, beginning of days or end of days. Jesus priesthood is like this. What is wrong if I give my tenth to Jesus outside the LAW?
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 4:46pm On Jun 07, 2019|
You see the problem when you don't see things in context?
Pro-tithers are always eager to use Abraham's example of tithing in their defense without considering the facts that;
1) Abraham did not tithe under compulsion or any instructions laid out by God. Abraham tithed on his own terms.
2) Abraham tithed out of war spoils, AND NOT ALL THAT HE POSSESSED!;
Hebrews 7 v 4; Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
3) Abraham tithed only once in his life and you are tithing every month...
Now who is the dull person here?
Please show us where God asked for money to be tithed when He gave out the instructions on tithing.
AND CAN YOU SHOW ME WHERE I CALLED YOU BABA AS YOU EARLIER ACCUSED?
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 4:52pm On Jun 07, 2019|
OkCornel:Man I see that you are really crazy to call what Abraham did as TITHE or TITHING when this has nothing to do with agro feeds or under the LAW. You asked me where I got my 10% and I showed you right in the NEW TESTAMENT where I got what I am doing not under the LAW. Why are you calling this tithing? And why are you saying I am tithing? If I forbid you from saying that about me, why are you repeating this matter again?
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 5:01pm On Jun 07, 2019|
Question is, are you tithing the way God instructed it should be done? Or are you doing it the way you feel it should be done?
I mentioned something clearly. Abraham tithed the way he wanted to, and not the way God demanded it.
Abraham tithed warspoils, only once in his life! Does it now mean tithers should tithe only once in their entire life?
Abraham tithed when God gave no guideline on tithing! Now that God has specified what exactly should be tithed, when did this change from agro-produce to money...and who changed it?
You are only trying to be clever by mixing Abraham's tithing with Mosaic requirement on tithing. Please where did God demand for money as tithes? Don't evade this question
WHEN WILL YOU SHOW ME WHERE I CALLED YOU BABA FOR GOODNESS SAKE? Or are you admitting you made a mistake or you lied against me?
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 5:03pm On Jun 07, 2019|
Okay, you are not tithing, case closed.
Please where was it mentioned in the scriptures that giving below 10% is called giving sparingly? This one is of interest to me...
I'm still waiting for you to show me where I called you "Baba", amongst other accusations you also made...
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by LifestyleTonite: 5:04pm On Jun 07, 2019|
Same Jesus gave the parable below
Luke 18:11-14 King James Version (KJV)
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
As seen above, the pharisees stated that he gave a tithe of ALL that he received. Same way Abraham gave a tithe of ALL. Jesus Christ didn't condemn him for that. he only condemned him for boasting and exalting himself before God.
That was a second chance for Jesus to put a stop to tithing, but he didn't, just as he didn't in Mathew 23:23.
He also had the chance to clearly correct that tithing was only to be agricultural produce, and to condemn the Pharisees for paying tithe from all that he received, be it agricultural or not, but Jesus didn't.
That's clearly Jesus stating that tithe could be paid from everything we receive which harmonizes with the scriptures below.
Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:
Notice how the Bible said the first fruits of ALL our increase. Firstfruit have been synonymously used with tithe in the Bible.
Abraham paid tithe from ALL that he made.
Jesus didn't condemn the Pharisees for paying tithe of ALL that he received.
Who are you to question the body of Christ on receiving money as tithe?
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 5:06pm On Jun 07, 2019|
Please use the scriptures to show me where God demanded for money as tithe!
1) Is it today that God will specify how certain things should be done, but man would go ahead to things the way they like?
2) So should the way God required tithing should be done now abandoned for the way a Pharisee does his own?
3) If I am to hold you accountable using the standard of that same Pharisee you referred to Luke 18 v 11-14; DO YOU GIVE A TITHE OF EVERY SINGLE THING YOU POSSESS?
4) Do you have scriptural references where Christians are also required to tithe (let me also add monetary tithe) as opposed to or in addition to freewill giving?
You also have unanswered questions on another thread, and you're popping up here...
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 5:08pm On Jun 07, 2019|
When LifestyleTonite is ready to show us where God specifically mentioned money as part of the items to be tithed, then it becomes very clear there is an agenda to twist the word of God for the love of money...
When God required money for the needs of the Temple, He specifically mentioned where all Israelite males should be levied a temple tax of half a shekel every year. That was an instance of God clearly asking for money.
Refer to Exodus 30 v 13-16 for where God gave the instruction through Moses;BASED ON THE ABOVE, IT WAS CLEAR WHEN & HOW GOD ASKED FOR MONEY TO MAINTAIN THE TEMPLE...
NOW LET US EXAMINE GOD'S REQUIREMENT FOR TITHES BELOW;
Refer to Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29;
Based on the above verses, God clearly mentioned what is titheable, and money was not part of the items to be tithed.
Any fraudster that comes with the excuse that money was not in use because the Israelites were predominantly farmers and cattle rearers...should read Exodus 30 v 13-16 and explain to us why God demanded money from these same Israelites...but specified crops and livestock as tithes in Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29;
Also, I'll be waiting for scriptural references where God made tithing mandatory for gentiles as well.
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 5:15pm On Jun 07, 2019|
OkCornel:I see that either you have become too spiritual than the Bible itself just to justify your doctrines. Where did you see it was mentioned He gave him SPOILS OF WAR? Bible says "and Abraham apportioned to him a tenth of everything" . Please both the Old TESTAMENT (Genesis 14) AND THE NEW TESTAMENT said the same thing... and I keep drumming into your dull mind that tenth = tithe are an exact word meaning TENTH and so these scriptures have nothing to do with tithing under the LAW.
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 5:17pm On Jun 07, 2019|
1) For a start, can you show me where I called you BABA?
2) To address the bolded part of your question, go and read Hebrews 7 v 4;
Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Please read that and tell me if Abraham gave a tithe of everything that he possessed... or just a tithe of war spoils...
While at it, also tell us how many times Abraham tithed in his life... Because it seems most pro-tithers want to stay somewhere in between Abraham's style of tithing which was done once and tithing as specified by God in the Law which was done on a regular basis...
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 5:18pm On Jun 07, 2019|
paxonel:Please what is that word BABA doing there? I see it was not you anyway.
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 5:21pm On Jun 07, 2019|
Can you see it was not me who said it?
Never mind... let's move on now that part is sorted...
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 5:32pm On Jun 07, 2019|
OkCornel:Thank you. Anyway giving TENTH has nothing to do with TIME. It depends on the percentage itself and when next you want to give it if there is an increment. It is not stated how many times Abraham did it and that is why it is called TENTH because it a conscious reflection of an action per percent.
Now if you want to see how it is done continuously let us move on to JACOB who is actually the father of ISRAEL. He vowed to God in GENESIS 28:22 to give tenth of everything God ever gives to Him... and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God's house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth.
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 5:45pm On Jun 07, 2019|
The thing with Jacob's example is nowhere in the scriptures was it mentioned he fulfilled his vow...
Anyways, let me assume he did. But let's note something here, Jacob, just like Abraham tithed on his own terms at a point in time God gave no specific instructions on how it should be done...
My humble question is this, now that God made His mind clear on how tithing should be done, should it be abandoned and done in a manner man pleases to do it?
Another thing that is of interest to me is what precisely qualifies as giving sparingly? Is the emphasis only on money? What about time? Is the threshold set at 10%?
I believe it's more of a qualitative thing rather than a quantitative thing...
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 5:47pm On Jun 07, 2019|
OkCornel:And one more thing. It seemed we justify being led by the Spirit a lot. If Jacob the father of ISRAEL tithe all his life, and we have to reward people by their actions only He would still merit that position by out performing us in giving and righteous deeds. Grace to grass to be lazy and not to be systematic to win the coveted prize is the hall mark of modern Christianity today. i HAVE STOPPED TALKING TOO MUCH, I AM WORKING NOW.
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 5:53pm On Jun 07, 2019|
OkCornel:The examples I gave you were way outside the LAW and given to the KING OF RGITHEOUSNESS, GOD. I am not under the dispensation of the LAW. It is the dispensation that have changed, not what we do. YOU CAN GIVE, CHOSE NOT TO GIVE, DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. But I prefer to follow Bible examples worthy of emulation. We are not under the commandments but under grace but that is what made our ace tougher, especially when we keep giving little.
Thank yo I got to go out for a while...later.
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 5:55pm On Jun 07, 2019|
Being led by the Spirit is one of the major pillars of the new covenant.
Mind you, I am not in anyway using this to justify stinginess, because I can't figure out how one is led of the Spirit and still be stingy towards his fellow man nor the things of God...
Galatians 5 v 22 mentioned Love, Goodness and Kindness as some of the fruits of the Spirit, and anyone who is truly led of the Spirit should exhibit these qualities... as such, giving should not be a problem...
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 6:27pm On Jun 07, 2019|
Another thing to note with the example of Abraham and Jacob is this;
1) Abraham did not tithe to expect blessings in return, He was already blessed before he tithed.
2) Jacob's tithing was more or less a matter of bargain with God... "if you do this for me, I'll do this in return"
But what are we expected to do in this new covenant. Give cheerfully. And that's what I choose to do... I'm not necessarily driven by a certain percentage to give nor do I give with the mindset of what I expect from God in return...
Whether or not He chooses to bless me, I still give cheerfully...
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by paxonel(m): 6:29pm On Jun 07, 2019|
Dencotext:its a sign of respect in Nigeria perhaps you have forgotten after leaving Nigeria for so many years.
Do people still pay tithe in Europe?
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 6:51pm On Jun 07, 2019|
OkCornel:Good but know that God is impartial! Whatever you sow that is what you will reap!
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 6:58pm On Jun 07, 2019|
paxonel:Well in Italy its hard to find those that even believe it including my bishop here. These guys are well fed and so are not too aware of our darker struggles to get there. Me on my own keep doing what worked best for me in Nigeria there....tithing! Against all odds I have confounded all their expectations by what I have been sowing. I am more or less like an object of curiosity, and in my last church a ridicule.
|Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 7:32pm On Jun 07, 2019|
Double post...kindly ignore...
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