Ihedinobi3:

Atheism is an absurd position so I understand how it is easy for atheists to gravitate to absurdity.

What I said is that my argument is not the same as the teleological argument. The proof is that while the teleological attempts to prove that the design in creation is evidence for the existence of a creating Intelligence behind it, mine presents the fact of Creation at all (design is not at all important in my argument) as proof of the Existence of a Creator. The design apparent in creation is only important in my argument for identifying the Creator. That is, whether Allah, Brahmin or the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the Creator can be determined by comparing what is known about them to the attributes of Creation. If there is a consistency, then we can conclude that the candidate whose nature is most consistent with the attributes of creation must be God.

Originakalokalo:


I don't want you to deceive yourself.

You need to repent and be converted.

tintingz:
Lol, you don't get, we can read in the Bible how Yahweh was doing big wonders from life to right and people all see it, now that we have phones, internet, cameras, television etc suddenly we don't see such?. Why?

LordReed:


As absurd as it is, it is way less absurd than believing a god exists much less one that created everything without itself being created. That is stuff of an absurdist's fevered dreams.

Making a distinction without a difference. You are saying I am not arguing design proves a god exists, I am arguing design proves my particular god exists.

Ubenedictus:
what other recordable effect do you want if the creation and preservation of the universe is insufficient for you?
I just remembered a passage of scripture that says even if someone came back from d dead to preach to them they still wont believe.

Ihedinobi3:

But of course, you would think so. You are an atheist. Nothing surprising about the fact that you made that conclusion.

As for your reading of my argument, it is unfortunate. My argument and the teleological are quite obviously not the same.

Creation is proof that a Creator exists. We have already seen that if I have to prove that statement, then I would be wasting my time. Still...

Creation exists either because someone made it or it has always existed. If you believe that it is absurd that someone who has always existed made creation, then you would be a hypocrite to believe that creation has always existed. Infinite regress is obviously a waste of imagination because the chain must end at some point or else it ends up in the same category of absurd conclusions as the other two options.

That is what my argument is. Is that how the teleological sounds?

Originakalokalo:


Atheism is one of the oldest believe in the world.

Yet, it is not popular.

Now, over 5 billion people believe in the existence of a god /God. That makes atheism A BRAIN DISORDER.

you guys are not much. So, there won't be a stampede when you guys go to hell.

Atheists do not have any business being in a kingdom of a God who they do not believe in.

So, unless you repent and get converted,

You go straight on a jet to hell ...Fast and Furious.

LordReed:


Yet you have people claiming they have returned from the dead to preach. The god cannot make up its mind?

There are many ways the god can prove its existence without arguments or untestable claims.

Originakalokalo:


Before Jesus came, bible scholars believe that there were some years that was "dark"

The level of atrocities was much, iniquity abound and God was entirely silent during this period....

True prophecy was scarce... and Men neglected God.

Only few persons encountered him on personal basis.... and later, Jesus Christ showed up. He was born.
..

I believe that history is repeating itself again...

Open show of immorality, theft, killings, sexual perverts, and wickedness are everywhere.....

Jesus will show up yet again at this similar times.

Don't get me wrong,
People experience God still.

It is not on a global scale. ..The inhabitants of the world has no thought of God in them...

....God had said..... Draw closer to me and I will draw closer to you....

If I draw closer to him and you go far away from him, he will go closer to me and far away from you.........

God's relationship with man is now personal.

Michellekabod1:

Stale...
Your holy book states that it is only a few that would find life...so the minority that are heaven-bound have a brain disorder?

Mind you lots of free thinkers were brutally murdered by the church(may be that is what decreased their population)

Ubenedictus:
how has d dead guys helped you?


Even if he came down in visible form in a stadium someone like you will still try and find other explanations and accuse the people there of mass hallucination.

I dont need to make claims and argument, if creation doesnt tell you of a creator then i guess nothing will. When people make up their minds they bec6e blind to glaring things.

tintingz:
Lol, if Yahweh can display his stunts he did in the Bible, don't you think it will make everyone believe in him?

LordReed:


teleology
/ˌtɛlɪˈɒlədʒi,ˌtiːlɪˈɒlədʒi/
noun
PHILOSOPHY
the explanation of phenomena in terms of the purpose they serve rather than of the cause by which they arise.

You are in essence saying we can infer that the universe is created by somebody because the somebody had a purpose for it. That is a teleological position.

Ihedinobi3:

So, "because someone made it" means "because someone had a purpose for making it"?

LordReed:


Yes. An act of creation by an intelligent being implies purpose or is your god mindless?

Ihedinobi3:

Well then, there is no point in saying anything further.

Originakalokalo:



Majority of the children of Israel did not believe him.

They even sacrificed their children in fire to a god called Moloch...they made images of wood and bowed down to it.

That's the nature of Man.

The new covenant, which brought the Holy Ghost into man, is what makes that nature to change. ...


Without the Holy Ghost, People won't believe even if there are serious signs from heaven.

The modern man will just explain the occurrence of the signs using science and we will be back to square one.

HellVictorinho:

Please,define the 'It' that someone or something made.
And are you trying to say there was a time when only this someone or something existed?
If there is,what was it doing?
Was it playing or dancing?
What made it to decide to create?
Where was this someone or something residing?
What happened to the someone or something that caused it to lose its interest in creating things?
How was this uncreated creator able to exist without creating anything before creating "It"?
So you are basically saying "It" was created by another "It" in the middle of a time where there is only one "It".
Think critically at the end of the analysis of your supposition which I have just summarized.

Ihedinobi3:

God created both time and space. Only God existed before anything was made including time. His existence is necessarily above the limits of logic. So I could not possibly tell you anything about it. I have no idea what it is like to exist beyond the limits of time and space.

HellVictorinho:

TIME can't be created.
TIME is a limiting unit.
It can't be limited.
Check out my topic titled the 'Timing of Existence' and read what I posted.

Ihedinobi3:

I have no reason to believe your claims. I happen to not be insane.

HellVictorinho:

Lame.
And,if I say it is insane to accept creationism as a truth,how would you react?

Ihedinobi3:

What I mean is: I have a working brain. So if you want me to believe something, you have to demonstrate to me that it is worthy of belief. I can't believe your claims about Time just because you made them.

Regardless, I really haven't found engagement with you productive so far so I am not very enthusiastic about a discussion with you.

tintingz:
The stories said they later believe after God did his stunt.

Jayhazard:
If you do not believe in God, why do you spend time trying to disprove His existence? Intellectual people (especially scientists) spend time trying to prove the existence of something, not the other way round. I mean, If He doesn't exist, it shouldn't matter to you, right? We all have personal rights to believe what we want. No one is forcing you to believe in God, but you appear to be shoving your disbelief down people's throats.
I can only make one thing out of this: It's not that you do not believe God exists, the truth is you HATE God. You wouldn't fight against something that doesn't matter if you didn't hate it, and you can't hate what doesn't exist.

Originakalokalo:


Which "story " ?
.

Whoever told you that is a lazy reader.

LordReed:


You who has proved god exists, we are asking you for the proof you have not arguments. But you guys never do, you come with all manner of explanations that don't make sense, like this your "you hate god" rhetoric. Don't cry, just show us proof.

Jayhazard:

If it was all about the proof, you would have believed long before now.

LordReed:


More excuses. Stop the excuses and show the proof.

LordReed:


You who has proved god exists, we are asking you for the proof you have not arguments. But you guys never do, you come with all manner of explanations that don't make sense, like this your "you hate god" rhetoric. Don't cry, just show us proof.

LordReed:


They don't because there is no proof that spirits or souls that are separate from the body exist.

Creation is a claim religions claim, it is not evidence. Someone can not point to house and say my father built that house and when pressed for proof says the house exists therefore my father built it.