MuttleyLaff:
You'll soon get adequately used to budaatum, especially for example, when he awakes his anima and talks of his feminine side when making a point

I don't understand. Do you know the moniker to have ever identified as male?

Ihedinobi3:


I am not at all interested in your correction of the Bible. You asked a question and I answered you. You are welcome to believe it or disbelieve it. The rewards and consequences are all yours.

As for the passage in Isaiah, of course we are flesh. Doesn't mean we are not spirits too. As a matter of fact, the body without the spirit is dead. If you know how to explain self-aware flesh, you carry on. There are human bodies in morgues around the world which wonder at such a term.

Just because Ihedinobi3 says it is so does not make it so. You have a skewed understanding of scripture which is more in line with church tradition than FACT !

Spirit in the bible as it pertains to MAN and in the context of the scripture you quoted has always meant wind, breath etc. From the Lexicon , the word spirit is explained thus ;

neshamah: breath
Original Word: נְשָׁמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: neshamah
Phonetic Spelling: (nesh-aw-maw')
Definition: breath

Do some proper bible study Sir with all due respect.

Like I said, I don't consider you intelligent of knowing enough to correct the Bible, so don't waste your energy.

As I said, Genesis 2:7 says what it says. It is not an opinion of any kind.

Again, I sense some arrogance seeping through your facade of saintliness ( of course as expected with 'intelligent' Christians ).

Just because Ihedinobi3 says it is so does not make it so. Don't cram the bible, study it with the widely available tools and maybe you will come to a knowledge of the 'truth' -

Doesn't matter a whit to me what you are.

The feeling is mutual



In summary we agree that abortion is permissible under dire conditions that are medically clarified or where there is emotional or biological danger to the woman. But we disagree on the point of when a baby comes into human existence.

Respect !!

Ihedinobi3:
I don't understand. Do you know the moniker to have ever identified as male?

Does it matter what pronoun budaatum decides to use for himself, afterall at the end of time, there'll be no male or female, for all are one in Christ Jesus.

frosbel2:


Just because Ihedinobi3 says it is so does not make it so. You have a skewed understanding of scripture which is more in line with church tradition than FACT !

Spirit in the bible as it pertains to MAN and in the context of the scripture you quoted has always meant wind, breath etc. From the Lexicon , the word spirit is explained thus ;

neshamah: breath
Original Word: נְשָׁמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: neshamah
Phonetic Spelling: (nesh-aw-maw')
Definition: breath

Do some proper bible study Sir with all due respect.

"Breath" also means "spirit". Otherwise, the angels are "breaths" (or "winds", as sometimes translated) and the Holy Spirit is really the "Holy Breath". Suffice to say that you know nothing about these matters.

frosbel2:
Again, I sense some arrogance seeping through your facade of saintliness ( of course as expected with 'intelligent' Christians ).

Just because Ihedinobi3 says it is so does not make it so. Don't cram the bible, study it with the widely available tools and maybe you will come to a knowledge of the 'truth' -

Real arrogance is presuming to be the author of Truth. That is you, frosbel, not me.

frosbel2:
The feeling is mutual

Not terribly evident.

frosbel2:
In summary we agree that abortion is permissible under dire conditions that are medically clarified or where there is emotional or biological danger to the woman. But we disagree on the point of when a baby comes into human existence.

Respect !!

I think you took a liberty here. What I stated definitively is that abortion is unacceptable on frivolous grounds. As to where it is permissible, I did not and do not presume to make decisions for other people here since the Bible does not command anything one way or another here.

MuttleyLaff:
Does it matter what pronoun budaatum decides to use for himself, afterall at the end of time, there'll be no male or female, for all are one in Christ Jesus

First, if you essentially falsely insinuated that budaatum was lying about her gender, then that is definitely something you should apologize for or own up to.

Second, the Bible does not teach that gender will be done away with. It only teaches that Salvation in Christ Jesus makes no difference between male and female. Everyone is equally offered Salvation. Everyone has an equal chance to win the greatest eternal rewards. Gender, race and culture do not impede anyone's choices.

Ihedinobi3:

"Breath" also means "spirit". Otherwise, the angels are "breaths" (or "winds", as sometimes translated) and the Holy Spirit is really the "Holy Breath". Suffice to say that you know nothing about these matters.

Context Mr Man.

In this context, i.e angel , Holy Spirit etc, the Greek work often used is πνεῦμα, ατος, τό translated pneuma. This is different from neshamah which means breath and which is used interchangeably with ruach [strong's 7307]. Breath is what it is , breath , nothing else.- you are twisting scripture by adding a meaning to 'breath' which is based more on pagan Greek myth than fact.

"Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless." - Ecclesiastes 3:19

Real arrogance is presuming to be the author of Truth. That is you, frosbel, not me.

Lol. Which truth ? If you mean debunking mythical 'truths' I accept the title...

I think you took a liberty here. What I stated definitively is that abortion is unacceptable under frivolous grounds. As to where it is permissible, I did not and do not presume to make decisions for other people here since the Bible does not command anything one way or another here.

Near enough -

Ihedinobi3:
First, if you essentially falsely insinuated that budaatum was lying about her gender, then that is definitely something you should apologize for or own up to.

Second, the Bible does not teach that gender will be done away with. It only teaches that Salvation in Christ Jesus makes no difference between male and female. Everyone is equally offered Salvation. Everyone has an equal chance to win the greatest eternal rewards. Gender, race and culture do not impede anyone's choices.

Dont read too much into what style budaatum types with and/or posts in.

Now let me ask you these following questions:
1/ What is your fascination with budaatum's gender, with whether budaatum is male or female?
2/ Have you evidence that budaatum is not male but is something otherwise?
Have you any shred of proof of budaatum saying he is female?
3/ Where have you read me say budaatum is lying about his gender?
4/ Is it a crime, to use words that invokes and/or appeals to one's opposite gender side?
5/ If gender is not going to be done away with, is procreation going to be a never ending thing?
6/ If there are no male or female angels, what kind of new bodies do you envisage, is being promised?

Just let sleeping dogs lie, leave things as they are, as I said, you'll soon adequately get used to budaatum's many idiosyncrasies

frosbel2:


Context Mr Man.

In this context, i.e angel , Holy Spirit etc, the Greek work often used is πνεῦμα, ατος, τό translated pneuma. This is different from neshamah which means breath and which is used interchangeably with ruach [strong's 7307]. Breath is what it is , breath , nothing else.- you are twisting scripture by adding a meaning to 'breath' which is based more on pagan Greek myth than fact.

"Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless." - Ecclesiastes 3:19

What does "pneuma" mean in Classical Greek?

frosbel2:
Lol. Which truth ? If you mean debunking mythical 'truths' I accept the title...

I rest my case.

frosbel2:
Near enough -

As long as you understand that that is how you choose to see it, not that I actually said the same thing you did.

Abortion is KILLING A HUMAN BEING
Murder is KILLING A HUMAN BEING
both of them is SIN
Jesus said THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR SIN {John 15:22}

Michellekabod1:

Can I give you a hug through the phone?
Never came across a pro-life piece as convincing as this before

Hi. I'm Olaf and i like warm hugs especially if the girl is hot

budaatum:
It's my body. If I want to kill off a part or all of it, your opinion does not count.

This is not the argument dude. Disagreeing with something. Showing why it is wrong isn't the same as insisting people do what you think.

The premise was on the moral weight of the action.

You and i criticize religions from time to time, i wonder why we don't say "my choice, my religion" and leave these religions alone.

Because we understand that criticism isn't same as "you shouldn't do what you want with your life"

Jesus!!! This is non sequitur to this post

Ihedinobi3:

What does "pneuma" mean in Classical Greek?

Nicely skipped the scripture I quoted - Men and Animals have the same BREATH, no difference.

"Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless." - Ecclesiastes 3:19

In the story of creation according to your bible, Man ONLY became a living SOUL when God breathed the breath of life into HIM. This was not the impartation of another spirit being into man, it was akin to CPR given to an unconscious person. Again , breath in the creation story does not translate into a spirit being dwelling in man, that's just Greek Pagan Mythical rubbish, very similar to your other cherished belief in hell fire. All come from pagan origins and make up most of your theology.

frosbel2:


Nicely skipped the scripture I quoted - Men and Animals have the same BREATH, no difference.

"Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless." - Ecclesiastes 3:19

In the story of creation according to your bible, Man ONLY became a living SOUL when God breathed the breath of life into HIM. This was not the impartation of another spirit being into man, it was akin to CPR given to an unconscious person. Again , breath in the creation story does not translate into a spirit being dwelling in man, that's just Greek Pagan Mythical rubbish, very similar to your other cherished belief in hell fire. All come from pagan origins and make up most of your theology.

Okay. So I am assuming that you checked and saw that pneuma also means "breath".

Breath is used to mean spirit in the Bible. It is not strange that one word can mean more than one thing in any language. So, as you said, context is very important. In English, for example, "spirit" can mean the immaterial aspect of a person or an immaterial being or even an alcoholic drink. No one loses their mind over that.

As for the Scripture you shared, substitute "spirits" for "breaths" and see if it doesn't make even more sense. Of course, all animals possess spirits just like human beings. That is why, in the Scriptural description, man is a little lower than the angels and higher than the beasts. The difference between man and the beasts is not their composition - both are spirits that inhabit material bodies, unlike the angels who are purely spirits. Rather, it is that man possesses the Image of God just like the angels do, that is, a free will.

johnydon22:

This is not the argument dude. Disagreeing with something. Showing why it is wrong isn't the same as insisting people do what you think.

The premise was on the moral weight of the action.

You and i criticize religions from time to time, i wonder why we don't say "my choice, my religion" and leave these religions alone.

Because we understand that criticism isn't same as "you shouldn't do what you want with your life"

Jesus!!! This is non sequitur to this post

I don't know about you, but I do say, ""my choice, my religion" and leave these religions alone". I after all have never knocked on my JW neighbour's door and said, "Your God is a figment of your imagination"! I wonder if you go knock on your neighbour's door promoting your 'god'?

Everyone who aborts a foetus has a reason that is very valid to them which may seem unimportant to others. You missed it in your adult to foetus which if you'd ended with human egg and human sperm, you might see how an abortion starts with the use of a condom. Thankfully, in most societies, one does not need permission to remove an unwanted foetus from one's womb.

Frosbel2

Abortion is not the same as murder.

Abortion is the termination of an ongoing pregnancy or fetal development. Murder is an act of deliberately killing another being, especially a human.

They are similar, but not the same.

[quote author=Ihedinobi3 post=74915885]
Okay. So I am assuming that you checked and saw that pneuma also means "breath".

Again, it could mean breath or spirit. Context is what matters and that is why we have Lexicons.

As for the Scripture you shared, substitute "spirits" for "breaths" and see if it doesn't make even more sense. Of course, all animals possess spirits just like human beings. That is why, in the Scriptural description, man is a little lower than the angels and higher than the beasts. The difference between man and the beasts is not their composition - both are spirits that inhabit material bodies, unlike the angels who are purely spirits. Rather, it is that man possesses the Image of God just like the angels do, that is, a free will.

Your quoting from a 2000 year old scripture is meaningless to me. Lets deal with facts.

The verse I provided from the book of Ecclesiastes 3:19 makes it very clear that breath means animated breath and not some bogus spirit being that is separate from man or animal. To further buttress this point, the author then went on to say ;
"The living know that they will die, but the dead don’t know anything. They have no more reward. People will soon forget them. 6 After people are dead, their love, hate, and jealousy are all gone " - Ecclesiastes 9-12

The author's opinion was that when people died , that was it , full stop. No flying off to a mythical heaven or descending to a Greek Pagan Hades ( renamed hell by unscrupulous bible twisters and fabricators).

The only difference between MAN and BEAST is the design of the human brain. The human brain alone possesses self awareness and the ability to create or destroy. The human brain also contains the intelligence that makes us differentiate between good and bad.

For those interested in all these pagan myths about the human composition, follow this link -
https://hoshanarabbah.org/blog/2013/09/05/immortal-soul-idea-pagan/

budaatum:

I don't know about you, but I do say, ""my choice, my religion" and leave these religions alone". I after all have never knocked on my JW neighbour's door and said, "Your God is a figment of your imagination"! I wonder if you go knock on your neighbour's door promoting your 'god'?

Who has knocked on your door to tell you not to commit abortion here?

Everyone who aborts a foetus has a reason that is very valid to them which may seem unimportant to others. You missed it in your adult to foetus which if you'd ended with human egg and human sperm, you might see how an abortion starts with the use of a condom.

When it comes down comparing a fetus to sperm, I'm done. It has gone too absurd for me to indulge in.
Any intelligent person that does not know the difference between a human and a sperm has gone over the height of reaching.
A sperm is a human cell not a human. Humans are made of cells - correct
Human is a cell - incorrect.

Humans are made of atoms - correct
Humans are atoms - incorrect.

That i even have to explain this shows the absurdity people sink in to rationalize an abhorrence.

Thankfully, in most societies, one does not need permission to remove an unwanted foetus from one's womb.

Again this is not the premise, no one is asking anybody to not do what they want. Jesus Christ! People stay with the premise.
Criticizing religion doesn't mean you are telling people to come and seek your permission before they become religious.
How the hell do you people even inject seeking for permission when the premise criticizes abortion?
Finally, being legal is not exactly same as being moral.

johnydon22:
Who has knocked on your door to tell you not to commit abortion here?

When it comes down comparing a fetus to sperm, I'm done. It has gone too absurd for me to indulge in.

Again this is not the premise, no one is asking anybody to not do what they want. Jesus Christ! People stay with the premise.
Criticizing religion doesn't mean you are telling people to come and seek your permission before they become religious.
How they hell do you people even inject seeking for permission when the premise criticizes abortion?
Finally, being legal is not exactly same as being moral.

And being moral is not always right

hahn:


And being moral is not always right

Repeat that until it makes sense to you. I'm sure it will

frosbel2:
Again, it could mean breath or spirit. Context is what matters and that is why we have Lexicons.

Again, he says. Weren't you the one arguing as follows,

"Breath is what it is , breath , nothing else.- you are twisting scripture by adding a meaning to 'breath' which is based more on pagan Greek myth than fact"?

frosbel2:
Your quoting from a 2000 year old scripture is meaningless to me. Lets deal with facts.

You seem to be confused, frosbel. You invited me because, according to you, you are not anti-Bible. You claimed to only be opposed to some parts of it. Then you began quoting it to prove me wrong. Now, quoting from it is meaningless to you? I think you should make up your mind about who you want to be.

frosbel2:
The verse I provided from the book of Ecclesiastes 3:19 makes it very clear that breath means animated breath and not some bogus spirit being that is separate from man or animal. To further buttress this point, the author then went on to say ;
"The living know that they will die, but the dead don’t know anything. They have no more reward. People will soon forget them. 6 After people are dead, their love, hate, and jealousy are all gone " - Ecclesiastes 9-12

The author's opinion was that when people died , that was it , full stop. No flying off to a mythical heaven or descending to a Greek Pagan Hades ( renamed hell by unscrupulous bible twisters and fabricators).

Obviously, that passage says nothing of the sort. That is all your own invention. It only said that man and beast have the same breath. And the Hebrew word translated there also means "spirit". So, if course it was spirit that was in view there. The animating quality of all animals and human beings is the spirit in them. Without it, they would not be alive.

In fact, the author goes on to say that "the dead have no more reward". That is, at death, the opportunity to win eternal rewards ends. In the same way, the dead are removed from the crucible of life so that they no longer participate in the affairs of living. So, they are not "knowing" that they will die. They are no longer making choices. They are not seeking to understand truths of life. They are done with the task of making and defending their choices. Nothing here says that they cease to exist, just that they cease to be like the living who are still looking forward to the grave.

In effect then, you are taking liberties with the text on the page, putting words in the author's mouth.

frosbel2:
The only difference between MAN and BEAST is the design of the human brain. The human brain alone possesses self awareness and the ability to create or destroy. The human brain also contains the intelligence that makes us differentiate between good and bad.

For those interested in all these pagan myths about the human composition, follow this link -
https://hoshanarabbah.org/blog/2013/09/05/immortal-soul-idea-pagan/

So, why do corpses that possess brains do nothing at all?

johnydon22:
Who has knocked on your door to tell you not to commit abortion here?

When it comes down comparing a fetus to sperm, I'm done. It has gone too absurd for me to indulge in.
Any intelligent person that does not know the difference between a human and a sperm has gone over the height of reaching.
A sperm is a human cell not a human. Humans are made of cells - correct
Human is a cell - incorrect.

Humans are made of atoms - correct
Humans are atoms - incorrect.

That i even have to explain this shows the absurdity people sink in to rationalize an abhorrence.
Again this is not the premise, no one is asking anybody to not do what they want. Jesus Christ! People stay with the premise.
Criticizing religion doesn't mean you are telling people to come and seek your permission before they become religious.
How the hell do you people even inject seeking for permission when the premise criticizes abortion?
Finally, being legal is not exactly same as being moral.

I'm sure you've participated in discussions about moral relativism on here. But just in case you haven't, note how homosexuality is moral, according to some and even nations, and immoral in some others. Same with abortion.

It is my opinion that calling a foetus a human being is equally as ridiculous as calling sperm and an egg a human being. And since you admit that you are not asking anyone to seek anyone's permission, therefore, regardless of what you may think of the morality of my action, I repeat, my body. I can chop bits off it if it so please me.

johnydon22:
Repeat that until it makes sense to you. I'm sure it will

That that that that that that that that that that

I'm not getting it

[quote author=Ihedinobi3 post=74919550]
Again, he says. Weren't you the one arguing as follows,

"Breath is what it is , breath , nothing else.- you are twisting scripture by adding a meaning to 'breath' which is based more on pagan Greek myth than fact"?

Not sure what you mean here !!

You seem to be confused, frosbel. You invited me because, according to you, you are not anti-Bible. You claimed to only be opposed to some parts of it. Then you began quoting it to prove me wrong. Now, quoting from it is meaningless to you? I think you should make up your mind about who you want to be.

You quoted a part of the bible which is irrelevant to me, so what ? I only agree with a small part of the bible which rules out most of the erroneous new testament . Take a deep breath, we are not in a competition here to be right , though your religious pomposity would never allow you admit error even when glaringly obvious.

Obviously, that passage says nothing of the sort. That is all your own invention. It only said that man and beast have the same breath. And the Hebrew word translated there also means "spirit". So, if course it was spirit that was in view there. The animating quality of all animals and human beings is the spirit in them. Without it, they would not be alive.

It does not mean a separate spirit being in this context , it means BREATH - period.

Breath is what keeps us alive, which is why when someone has a cardiac arrest the first medical aid administered is CPR or in the case of keeping a comatose patient alive oxygen. Breathing is a mechanism that processes the oxygen we take in for the proper functioning of the human body. When a man dies, the breathing process stops and the last gasp of breath leaves the body from the lungs. Again the notion of a spirit leaving the body is PAGAN rubbish.

Oh, here are few more bible verses from YOUR BIBLE that debunk you fallacious statements :

"But if you turn away from them, they panic. When you take away their breath, they die and turn again to dust." - Psalm 104:29

It in this context , God takes the breath away, i.e ends life. Nothing here about the spirit leaving the body.

"By the sweat of your brow you will eat your bread, until you return to the ground--because out of it were you taken. For dust you are, and to dust you shall return." - Genesis 3:19

Your bible says we are DUST , nothing else but DUST - get it Ihedinobi3

Twist it as much as you can, your erroneous interpretation of these verses will never make it true.

In fact, the author goes on to say that "the dead have no more reward". That is, at death, the opportunity to win eternal rewards ends. In the same way, the dead are removed from the crucible of life so that they no longer participate in the affairs of living. So, they are not "knowing" that they will die. They are no longer making choices. They are not seeking to understand truths of life. They are done with the task of making and defending their choices. Nothing here says that they cease to exist, just that they cease to be like the living who are still looking forward to the grave.

'Dead on arrival ' . He actually means reward from earthly labour , that's it - period. Typical scripture twisting apologist.

Read this :
I have seen personally what is the only beneficial and appropriate course of action for people:
to eat and drink, and find enjoyment in all their hard work on earth
during the few days of their life which God has given them,
for this is their reward. - Ecclesiastes 5:18-20

So, why do corpses that possess brains do nothing at all?

Does not deserve an answer

frosbel2:
Not sure what you mean here !!

I'm sure you'll figure it out.

frosbel2:
You quoted a part of the bible which is irrelevant to me, so what ? I only agree with a small part of the bible which rules out most of the erroneous new testament . Take a deep breath, we are not in a competition here to be right , though your religious pomposity would never allow you admit error even when glaringly obvious.

What quote do you mean?

As for your attitude to the Bible, that is really your business, not mine. My singular interest is that you yourself claimed that you wanted to hear the biblical perspective on the question and that was why you invited me to the conversation. Now you appear to have some kind of confusion about that.

As for admitting error, when you see the glaringly obvious one, just show it to me.

frosbel2:
It does not mean a separate spirit being in this context , it means BREATH - period.

Breath is what keeps us alive, which is why when someone has a cardiac arrest the first medical aid administered is CPR or in the case of keeping a comatose patient alive oxygen. Breathing is a mechanism that processes the oxygen we take in for the proper functioning of the human body. When a man dies, the breathing process stops and the last gasp of breath leaves the body from the lungs. Again the notion of a spirit leaving the body is PAGAN rubbish.

Oh, here are few more bible verses from YOUR BIBLE that debunk you fallacious statements :

"But if you turn away from them, they panic. When you take away their breath, they die and turn again to dust." - Psalm 104:29

It in this context , God takes the breath away, i.e ends life. Nothing here about the spirit leaving the body.

"By the sweat of your brow you will eat your bread, until you return to the ground--because out of it were you taken. For dust you are, and to dust you shall return." - Genesis 3:19

Your bible says we are DUST , nothing else but DUST - get it ihedinobi3

Twist it as much as you can, your erroneous interpretation of these verses will never make it true.

So, you're done trying to teach me Biblical Hebrew and Classical Greek? That didn't work and now you're back to insisting that breath is breath and cannot mean anything else. It's why I don't like discussing with you. You can't keep a straight narrative. You're all over the place confusing issues and casting aspersions on opposing arguments.

In ancient Hebrew and Greek, the original languages in which the Bible was written, the same word is used for breath and spirit. The latter would work just as well in these passages you keep throwing up.

Additionally, it is obviously not merely the air in our nostrils that is the issue. Rather, it is the actual ability to breathe that matters. We can breathe because we possess an animating quality. That quality is a spirit.

We are dust because our material bodies are made out of dust.

frosbel2:
'Dead on arrival ' . He actually means reward from earthly labour , that's it - period. Typical scripture twisting apologist.

Read this :
I have seen personally what is the only beneficial and appropriate course of action for people:
to eat and drink, and find enjoyment in all their hard work on earth
during the few days of their life which God has given them,
for this is their reward. - Ecclesiastes 5:18-20

I merely interpreted that passage in light of the rest of the Bible. But even if you claim that it was only earthly reward, you have changed nothing here. Point is, the dead are no longer on the plane of the living. They are no longer part of the involvements of living on earth. It takes a leap of logic to go from that to insisting that Solomon meant that when you die, you cease to exist. But you do that a lot already, so feel free to continue.

frosbel2:
Does not deserve an answer

On the contrary, I feel sure that you see your error quite clearly (although you choose not to admit it as you have done in plenty other situations already). If life is purely a material affair, there is no reason why an otherwise healthy body with a brain should be laying in a morgue rather than creating and destroying. But, of course, it will if life is only possible when a spirit inhabits a material body.

Ihedinobi3:


As for your attitude to the Bible, that is really your business, not mine. My singular interest is that you yourself claimed that you wanted to hear the biblical perspective on the question and that was why you invited me to the conversation. Now you appear to have some kind of confusion about that.

I can assure you there is no confusion at all. I was willing to listen your own biblical perspective bearing in mind that it is not the only biblical perspective out there, there are literally dozens of interpretations by all sorts of apologists and pastors, each contradicting and condemning the other for heresy. That's true confusion.

As for admitting error, when you see the glaringly obvious one, just show it to me.

Your theology is hinged on error and fallacy, almost all of it, starting from eternal torment, the trinity, the virgin birth to a mythical heaven in the sky for those who die. Its all pagan nonsense as I once told you, but you will never see the wood from the trees.

So, you're done trying to teach me Biblical Hebrew and Classical Greek? That didn't work and now you're back to insisting that breath is breath and cannot mean anything else. It's why I don't like discussing with you. You can't keep a straight narrative. You're all over the place confusing issues and casting aspersions on opposing arguments.

I have kept a straight narrative from the start of this discussion to now , always insisting that man is a body with the breath of life in him and when this breath leaves ( as the bible says ) , he returns to the dust from whence he came ( according to your bible ) , and goes back to a state of inanimation . I don't think I have erred from this position.

In ancient Hebrew and Greek, the original languages in which the Bible was written, the same word is used for breath and spirit. The latter would work just as well in these passages you keep throwing up.

There are multiple words used for breath and spirit and each is used in a specific context to add meaning to a given narrative.

Additionally, it is obviously not merely the air in our nostrils that is the issue. Rather, it is the actual ability to breathe that matters. We can breathe because we possess an animating quality. That quality is a spirit.

The ability to breath is a function of the lungs empowered by the heart and a whole variety of complex organs. When the heart stops, there is no longer an ABILITY for the lung to carry out its main function of breathing. The last breath leaving a man or animal is the last puff of air released from the lungs after death comes. Obviously your superstition makes it impossible for your to grasp this simple fact.

We are dust because our material bodies are made out of dust.

Man is addressed as a WHOLE BEING when he is alive breathing. When he dies , he is back to DUST . The body is dead when the breath leaves the man ;Conversely the body is alive when the breathing continues.

I merely interpreted that passage in light of the rest of the Bible. But even if you claim that it was only earthly reward, you have changed nothing here. Point is, the dead are no longer on the plane of the living. They are no longer part of the involvements of living on earth. It takes a leap of logic to go from that to insisting that Solomon meant that when you die, you cease to exist. But you do that a lot already, so feel free to continue.

You wrenched it out of context. Reward in the opinion of the teacher is in the here and now. Is there a reward in a hereafter ? i would rather not get into a debate with you about it, not worth my time.

On the contrary, I feel sure that you see your error quite clearly (although you choose not to admit it as you have done in plenty other situations already). If life is purely a material affair, there is no reason why an otherwise healthy body with a brain should be laying in a morgue rather than creating and destroying. But, of course, it will if life is only possible when a spirit inhabits a material body.

Silly argument , eventually the body decomposes and all that is left is skeleton just like other animals. No different.

frosbel2:


I can assure you there is no confusion at all. I was willing to listen your own biblical perspective bearing in mind that it is not the only biblical perspective out there, there are literally dozens of interpretations by all sorts of apologists and pastors, each contradicting and condemning the other for heresy. That's true confusion.

Your assurance does not count for anything with me.

As for a multiplicity of interpretations, what does that have to do with your claiming to have no interest in my alleged quotes from the Bible? The point is that you are presenting a confusion of interests and intentions.

frosbel2:
Your theology is hinged on error and fallacy, almost all of it, starting from eternal torment, the trinity, the virgin birth to a mythical heaven in the sky for those who die. Its all pagan nonsense as I once told you, but you will never see the wood from the trees.

All these are the error that I was refusing to admit here? What do they have to do with this conversation?

frosbel2:
I have kept a straight narrative from the start of this discussion to now , always insisting that man is a body with the breath of life in him and when this breath leaves ( as the bible says ) , he returns to the dust from whence he came ( according to your bible ) , and goes back to a state of inanimation . I don't think I have erred from this position.

Oh, no, you haven't stopped insisting on that. You have just been leaping from one bad argument for it to another. You have no reason for insisting on it besides your wish for it to be true.

frosbel2:
There are multiple words used for breath and spirit and each is used in a specific context to add meaning to a given narrative.

So, we are back to the original languages. What are those words again?

frosbel2:
The ability to breath is a function of the lungs empowered by the heart and a whole variety of complex organs. When the heart stops, there is no longer an ABILITY for the lung to carry out its main function of breathing. The last breath leaving a man or animal is the last puff of air released from the lungs after death comes. Obviously your superstition makes it impossible for your to grasp this simple fact.

So, why do corpses with otherwise healthy lungs, hearts and brains not breathe?

frosbel2:
Man is addressed as a WHOLE BEING when he is alive breathing. When he dies , he is back to DUST . The body is dead when the breath leaves the man ;Conversely the body is alive when the breathing continues.

I don't understand the above at all.

frosbel2:
You wrenched it out of context. Reward in the opinion of the teacher is in the here and now. Is there a reward in a hereafter ? i would rather not get into a debate with you about it, not worth my time.

Easy for you to make claims.

frosbel2:
Silly argument , eventually the body decomposes and all that is left is skeleton just like other animals. No different.

LOL. Frosbel, find something else to do. You have no real arguments against the Bible in this matter or in any other.

Ihedinobi3:


LOL. Frosbel, find something else to do. You have no real arguments against the Bible in this matter or in any other.

What bible , lol. A book handed down to you by the Colonial masters and packed full of fallacies and myth ? Is this what you take pride in ? You were an afterthought in the mind of Jesus, who only remembered your tribe two thousands years after a supposed resurrection ( never happened of course ).

No point arguing with you for sure, you will always judge all matters according to the amount of bible that has been crammed into your skull. To people like you science and logic are secondary.

The fact remains that you are dead wrong on two very serious issues in the context of the article ;

1. "It is only at birth that a human being comes into existence " -- that's plain rubbish
2. That a man is made up of three parts, body , soul and spirit -- again more rubbish from Greek mythology.

Keep 'wallowing' in the knowledge of your 'INERRANT BIBLE'

frosbel2:

The fact remains that you are dead wrong on two very serious issues in the context of the article ;

1. "It is only at birth that a human being comes into existence " -- that's plain rubbish

And in several posts now you have not managed to show that it is rubbish. Your claim is demonstrably false.

frosbel2:
2. That a man is made up of three parts, body , soul and spirit -- again more rubbish from Greek mythology.

Straw man fallacy. This argument is your own fabrication. The Bible teaches that man became a living soul when God put a spirit into his physical body formed from the ground (or from his parents' sperm and egg).

List of wonderful, thrilling and even shocking events for you to read is here: https://www.nairaland.com/4971263/wonders-shall-never-end

YES

Abortion is murder. Plain and simple. Any woman who indulges in abortionnhas turned her womb into a death trap for children instead of a life-giving, protective shell for the unborn human within her.

Life begins at the moment of conception.

All life matters.

YES YES YES