Honoring parents ( with gifts) is a divine law for longevity.( Mk 7:10,11)

Long life is tied to physical gifts  And if you don't have? Or they don't need? Is honour always monetised  ?

Headship is leadership. Who you follow spiritually.

Who you follow is presumably who you'll become like se?

Let's take Pastor Chris, for example. He started preaching the gospel from the age of about 12. He once said that those days when he goes on a fast, ( for soul winning)he locks his room to pray. The Mum complains to the father, the father comes and command him to open the door, and questions him for not eating, if he says he's fasting, he would still question the fasting by asking him , " what sin have you committed that you're fasting"?. By this the dad was bringing parental authority into spiritual authority. Jesus had to rebuke Mary too. Because parents even in their care don't know when to stop. You must take a stand. And with  pastoral guidance.

As a matter of policy, I'd rather not use a "human" measure and certainly not based on anecdotal evidence, but let me humour you just a little.

If as some of us suppose, "Parental Authority" is itself "Divinely Instituted" and as such, also to be considered "Spiritual Authority, then that would suggest the above is both contradictory and a sign of rebellion, would it not? I won't hazard a guess as to the veracity or basis of the story, but here is something similar;

Please note Luke 2 and particuarly verse 51. God is not the author of confusion. Not the God of the Bible anyways;

42 And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast. 43 When they had finished the days, as they returned, the Boy Jesus lingered behind in Jerusalem. And Joseph and His mother  did not know it; 44 but supposing Him to have been in the company, they went a day's journey, and sought Him among their relatives and acquaintances. 45 So when they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking Him. 46 Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions. 47 And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers. 48 So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, "Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously." 49 And He said to them, "Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father's business?" 50 But they did not understand the statement which He spoke to them. 51 Then He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was subject to them, but His mother kept all these things in her heart. 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

Parental blessing has it's place especially if they are saved. But it cannot take the place of pastoral blessing . The pastor is the man God has anointed over them.
and secondly
As much as you see fit to pronounce otherwise, God - who is afterall the creator of all - has instituted some things universally for all. Like rain for example. Marriage, parental authority/blessing are not limited or void if entered into by unbelievers, or non-believers for that matter.

Secondly, God does not "set a pastor" over you and further, does not give said pastor any special anointing. IMHO.

It may require a lot of explanation, maybe we spare it for another thread.But the first thing is to define the word " pastor"
It is not a title. He is a shepherd, guides, nutures,feeds, guards,etc. . It is an office and a calling. God has put authority in his mouth for the sheep. To edifying them.

Happy to discuss, but simple put its a function, that any suitably qualified brethren can aspire to. Spiritualising it avails nothing.

You don't graduate from pastoral leadership, a man that doesn't have a pastor over him is spiritually a vagabond. Except of course if his pastor dies and he becomes a pastor too. But one thing is clear, he had been raised by someone. As Paul raised Timothy . I'm not aware they set an expiry date for paul's leadership over Timothy.

Perhaps that speaks to the "V" in "TV" ! All round bad exegesis, flawed logic and faulty thinking. Poor math as well.

1. Do "Pastors" have other "Pastors" over them. And if not, who is over the "Pastor"?

The anointing to bless the sheep, is regardless of the disposition of the pastor . As long as he walks by faith .But a pastor can't break communion with God. It depends on what you mean by that. How can a man break communion with God ? If he cuts from God , he's no longer a Christian , not to talk about ministering to others.

I'd really like to respond to this, but da.y.um. I'm really lost for words. This is wierd on so many levels. Its not by mouth sha!

@Joagbaje,

To summarise, I think I've outlined some fundamental differences to wit;

1. There is no sole-authority type or pre-eminent by status pastor prescribed by scripture, unless of course you can show it.
2. God does not take what he did not prescribe, anoint it and set it over a man with authority over that mans existence.
3. Church =/= Christ =/= Whole of Believers life

Further more, Paul was acting in the Apostolic. God gave Paul the blueprint for church gathering, structure and admin, and it was simply thus;
"Appoint suitably qualified elders in every church" easy as abc. With Deacons where required. End of. There is no where in scripture an example of a "pastor" or pastor type refered to as extant in NT Christian community. Y'all made that up.

Those who would take this man-made "pastor" construct and use it to decieve and bind others are doing great harm, however well-intentioned.

May the Lord lead us all.
TV

toluxa1:

@second bold. Are you telling me that Marriages done in the court or magistrate are not blessed of God?

Joagbaje:

They are recognised by the government,by God , by demons , by angels, by the church. But the court has no power to bless marriage. If a Christian does that , he still needs to do marriage blessing or church blessing, to confer Gods blessing upon it.

@Joagbaje, your response above to toluxa1 is indicative of the danger inherent in the self-arrogated authority - spiritual or otherwise - of "The Pastor". You are pronouncing marriages transacted outside church "unblessed" and inherently invalid and unsanctified

Marriage is an honourable estate, ordained and blessed by God. All things being equal, all it essentially needs is parental go-ahead to be blessed. Church has nothing to do with it, Christian or not. Of course Christians - or not Christians sef, can wed in church, but that is an optional extra, not a mandatory requirement.

As ever you employ "cut and paste doctrine" and "cooked up cliché" to falsely assert an erroneous position. Which one is "Church Blessing"?

TV

TV01:
.

As ever you employ "cut and paste doctrine" and "cooked up cliché" to falsely assert an erroneous position. Which one is "Church Blessing"?

TV

Church blessing or marriage blessing is done for couples that have not been married in church: either they were cohabiting for years and needs to leigalise it.

TV01:

@Joagbaje, your response above to toluxa1 is indicative of the danger inherent in the self-arrogated authority - spiritual or otherwise - of "The Pastor". You are pronouncing marriages transacted outside church "unblessed" and inherently invalid and unsanctified.

I didn't say they are not valid. I said they are recognised by the church, But they don't command the blessing of God. The blessing of God can only come through the name of Jesus. The court does not have access to the name of jesus. If two people marry in the mosque or shrine, it doesn't command Gods blessing. But they are legally married. Marriage is a divine institution, not just social or family affair. God has purpose for marriage. We can't deny the fact that many people this days just see it as a legal contract . But it is unscriptural.

Marriage is an honourable estate, ordained and blessed by God. All things being equal, all it essentially needs is parental go-ahead to be blessed. Church has nothing to do with it,

Then you don't understand the church. All the blessing in God are in christ.

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


It is only the name of Jesus that can commmand blessing , it is only the church that is the custodian of the name of Jesus.

^^^
@joagbaje
Can you quote a single scripture (in proper context) that supports what you posted above?

That aside are you aware that there is no scriptural basis for church marriage, that it is only a tradition of men evolved from man's love for religion?

Joagbaje:

I didn't say they are not valid. I said they are recognised by the church, But they don't command the blessing of God. The blessing of God can only come through the name of Jesus.

The sun shines very day sir. The rain fals on all.

Joagbaje:

The court does not have access to the name of jesus. If two people marry in the mosque or shrine, it doesn't command Gods blessing. But they are legally married. Marriage is a divine institution, not just social or family affair. God has purpose for marriage. We can't deny the fact that many people this days just see it as a legal contract . But it is unscriptural.

The church is also a "Divine Institution" - albeit not as instituted by man - just as Marriage is. And sir, the divine ordinance of Marriage preceded the divine institution of church. But being a divine institution, marriage remains a cvil affair.

Joagbaje:

Then you don't understand the church. All the blessing in God are in christ. .

True, but thay are not necessarily limited to those who call themselves Christians. Unbelievers eat, wake-up, give birth, get jobs, are healed and although you wouldn't credit it, have great marriages every day.

Joagbaje:

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

You are clutching here sir !

Joagbaje:

It is only the name of Jesus that can commmand blessing , it is only the church that is the custodian of the name of Jesus.

And this explains why  !! Ah, ah,  @ Joagbaje, Foul, offside, handball and penarity all at once. Umpire, refereee and judge!!!!! How on earth would you even have the liver to openly pronounce such an unscriptural statement.

Ok, sorry. Please show me from scripture how the church is custodian;

[size=4pt]1. To hold in custody as in Jailer
2. To hold in custody as in safekeep
3. To hold in custody as in parent as custodian of a child[/size]

Thanks
TV

Joagbaje:

it is only the church that is the custodian of the name of Jesus.

Did you really say this? Now, I really don't like it when the majority of people are all speaking against one person but now I see why everybody has to quote joagbaje.

Wait! When you say Church, are you talking of the Local Congregation or the BODY OF BELIEVERS. Cos they are two different things o.

@Kunleoshob,Toluxa,TV01

KunleOshob:

^^^
@joagbaje
Can you quote a single scripture (in proper context) that supports what you posted above?

That aside are you aware that there is no scriptural basis for church marriage, that it is only a tradition of men evolved from man's love for religion?

Your assertion is untrue.  Even in the Old testament, They were not allowed just to marry who they like, but from among their people who worship God. God rules the home.

Numbers 36:6
6 This[ is] the thing which the Lord doth command concerning the daughters of Zelophehad, saying, Let them marry to whom they think best; only to the family of the tribe of their father shall they marry.

1 Corinthians 7:39
39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

The ground on which israelites were not allowed to marry other nations was on the ground of faith. Not mere family ties. Because Israel was the only nation under God.The OT was a shaddow  of the NT.  In Christ , same thing obtains.

2 Corinthians 6:14-16
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in[ them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


God has a say in who you marry and how you go about it. Because he has a purpose for the Christian marriage. It is not a family affair. It is a divine institution. He is looking for godly seed.

Malachi 2:15
15 And did not God make[ you and your wife] one[ flesh]? Did not One make you and preserve your spirit alive? And why[ did God make you two] one? Because He sought a godly offspring[ from your union].

The Christian children are godly seed, but the children of the unsaved are unholy.

TV01:
.
the divine ordinance of Marriage preceded the divine institution of church. But being a divine institution, marriage remains a cvil affair.

For the unsaved , fine , all they see is flesh, so it's a civil affair, but for the saints , we are crucified with Christ. Every aspect of your life. Your life is no longer your's

Malachi 2:15 (Living bible)
15 You were united to your wife by the Lord. In God's wise plan, when you married, the two of you became one person in his sight. And what does he want? Godly children from your union.

Malachi 2:15 (message bible)
15 GOD, not you, made marriage. His Spirit inhabits even the smallest details of marriage. And what does he want from marriage? Children of God, that's what.

And this explains why  !! Ah, ah,  @ Joagbaje, Foul, offside, handball and penarity all at once. Umpire, refereee and judge!!!!! How on earth would you even have the liver to openly pronounce such an unscriptural statement.
Ok, sorry. Please show me from scripture how the church is custodian;

All power is invested in the name of Jesus. He has given the church mandate in his name. Nobody can pray to God for another person without the name of Jesus. And you must be born again to use the name.  So the church is custodian of the name of christ. We have the right to use his name. Juju man can't bless in the name of Jesus.an unsaved man can't bless another person. The church is the pillar of truth.

toluxa1:


Wait! When you say Church, are you talking of the Local Congregation or the BODY OF BELIEVERS. Cos they are two different things o.

The Body of Christ of course.

TV01:


As much as you see fit to pronounce otherwise, God - who is afterall the creator of all - has instituted some things universally for all. Like rain for example. Marriage, parental authority/blessing are not limited or void if entered into by unbelievers, or non-believers for that matter.

There are general natural blessing upon all. We are dealing with activating spiritual blessing by prayer.

Secondly, God does not "set a pastor" over you and further, does not give said pastor any special anointing. IMHO.

Can you explain yourself further here, I want to understand you well before I respond to this.

@joagbaje
Despite all the numerous scriptures you posted to obfuscate issues, you have still failed to show any biblical basis for church marriage or any scripture that supports your allusion that marriages conducted in church attract a special blessing from God. Still waiting for answers with scriptural backing.

Joagbaje:

@Kunleoshob,Toluxa,TV01


Your assertion is untrue.  Even in the Old testament, They were not allowed just to marry who they like, but from among their people who worship God. God rules the home.

Numbers 36:6
6 This[ is] the thing which the Lord doth command concerning the daughters of Zelophehad, saying, Let them marry to whom they think best; only to the family of the tribe of their father shall they marry.

1 Corinthians 7:39
39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

The ground on which israelites were not allowed to marry other nations was on the ground of faith. Not mere family ties. Because Israel was the only nation under God.The OT was a shaddow  of the NT.  In Christ , same thing obtains.

2 Corinthians 6:14-16
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in[ them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


God has a say in who you marry and how you go about it. Because he has a purpose for the Christian marriage. It is not a family affair. It is a divine institution. He is looking for godly seed.

Malachi 2:15
15 And did not God make[ you and your wife] one[ flesh]? Did not One make you and preserve your spirit alive? And why[ did God make you two] one? Because He sought a godly offspring[ from your union].

The Christian children are godly seed, but the children of the unsaved are unholy.

Jo,

You were asked to show from scripture where you must be in a church gathering/building and receive blessings from a pastor for your marriage to be recognized and blessed by God.

All you've shown so far has not done justice to that.

Rather,the verses you've posted strengthen the fact that all that is required of two believers getting married is just that
they are believers of Christ and have decided to become one in Christ; whether by court marriage(to satisfy the law of the land)
or by traditional wedding(to satisfy the requirements of the parents' traditions) or by simple engagement.

The so called church wedding is just an addition that is not necessary.

both

TV it was the spambot that tagged and removed your post. I've sent a msg to the Admin to restore it. So you can either sit back n wait or post again writing/organizing differently and shoot down some of the nonsense I'm reading on this thread.

Suprised this thread lasted this long. Jesus answered the question Himself when He told us a man has to be born again.

When you are born (naturally), society expects and sees you resemble/take-after/follow and and named after your natural father. This father God says you must honor. This father God says can bless you. This father, in fact is the only one that God ties a commandment to. That commandment solves the problem addressed here for it gives to your father "right" over you - to bless or otherwise!

When you are born "again" and thus of the Spirit, I'd expect that what any right thinking person would understand is that you follow/resemble/take-after your "spiritual" Father. He you honor. And He is the only one who can bless you, not any wannabe "surrogate". Jesus/God made it clear that He is Jealous when He said "And do not call ANYONE on earth your father, for you have ONE father and He is in Heaven" Matt 23:9.

This would suggest that no "human" (pastor, elder, whatever) can play the role of your true "Father" to bless you and that furthermore, adopting a "strange" father is not something that God wants by any means for those that are His. NOBODY - remember Jesus went so far as to compare the tradition of such with the Pharisees!

So its just those two personages then - Natural AND Spiritual Father. Daddy/Mummy AND the Almighty. when you make another man your "father" and give him right to "bless" you, you are out on your own, no matter how sincere you are seeing as Christ forbade it Himself.

Of course, you have a right to deny truth and God and choose a suitably impressive earthly "representative" for Him against His wishes. That seems to be the "fashion" these days. Its your denial of God, your fall and your choice!

^^^
@nuclearboy
You wan spoil business for our main man pastor joe, how the man go chop if his customers don't believe they have to go thru him to receive God's blessings?

^^^ Any Christian who asks God for direction as to what to do will be told to "preach". That is God's business and He wants all His children involved just as Christ showed. But that does not mean all such who prayed to ask Him must become "pastors" - lack of understanding Jesus meant Mark 16:17 is their problem. It is the ones not called that decided to make a living from it that are our problem in Christianity today because they come in falsely, have a "semblance" of "effects" and since what they are looking for is success and an empire, they turn the Gospel into a business aimed at "success" and "empire building". Because people have itching ears, such readily find acolytes.

They should go find work to do. Funnily, we hear some are artistic - if they truly were, would they require a "scam" that means perverting God's Word to eat? Would they have to worship "earthly" fathers to have a chance to climb up the ladder of error in search for fake security? THEY SHOULD GO FIND HONORABLE WORK!

Na wa!!! Pastoral authority, spiritual authority. (INSECURITY at its best)

JeSoul:

TV it was the spambot that tagged and removed your post. I've sent a msg to the Admin to restore it. So you can either sit back n wait or post again writing/organizing differently and shoot down some of the nonsense I'm reading on this thread.

Hi Jess, hope you are well.

Just seen this. Does this spambot not know who I am ? Abi na WOFer Spambot  ! Sorry, I can generally remember what I wrote, but I have several things to attend to now before I take off over the weekend. So at best I may get to it whilst away, but by then it'll be even more faded. Can I ask that you do the miraculous - as you routinely do - and retrieve it ? Or perhaps post the text under your tag, quoting me??

Thanks
TV

There's no big deal to this thread, why do people spend their lives arguing over nothing? They are both your parents, see my people dying for the letter. God have mercy. By the way, you can bless yourself.

Jesus/God made it clear that He is Jealous when He said "And do not call ANYONE on earth your father, for you have ONE father and He is in Heaven" Matt 23:9. This would suggest that no "human" (pastor, elder, whatever) can play the role of your true "Father" to bless you and that furthermore, adopting a "strange" father is not something that God wants by any means for those that are His.

The above idea is enjoying undeserved liberty. By your matthew 23 logic, don't you think that Jesus said 'ONE father and He is in Heaven'. Why are you making it TWO and accusing others who make it 3 or more?
I'm quoting you, 'do not call ANYONE on earth your father'. When did your biological father escape ANYONE, or are you helping Jesus to sound more reasonable? Think hard, pray harder. The letter kills but the Spirit, Please do not insult me nuclear, thank you in advance.

1. The word pastor is synonymous with elder, bishop presbyter and shepherd

2. The is no biblical prescription for a “The Pastor” or a “pre-eminent Pastor”

3. All things being equal, eldership in the body is always a plurality of co-equals, although they may have different roles, functions, gifts and talents

4. The function/office/role is one which any qualified believer may aspire to. The calling as it were, is not necessarily divine post conversion.

5. The “authority” is not spiritual. It is administrative related to the gathering of believers and related activities. It does not extend to “whole of life” over fellow brethren.

6. The Lord does not devolve the unilateral power to bless or curse to the “sole-authority-pastor”, who in any event is not actually found within the scriptural narrative, either prescriptively or descriptively.

7. Whilst wise counsel by elders is to be sought after, it is not mandatory, neither is it binding, where it pertains to believers personal lives

8. A believers whole life, whole existence is Christ – by His grace we shall get there – but this is not synonymous with church and being “under authority”. A bondservant of Christ is not to be slave to any man.

9.  Church is a facet of the Christian life, not the whole of it. And not even the main or the most important facet at that.

10. Believers blessings are not necessarily mediated or cascaded via the church, although there are of course blessings in fellowship.

11. True church is community based, in which sense eldership influence may be further reaching, where congregational fellowship and community life become intertwined.

12. Please don’t confuse this with the Sunday-Sunday pilgrimage to remote or distant places of worship, which is not community based or impacting, but rather a “mockery” of 11. Above and essentially “ghettoisation” no matter how affluent the church.

13. Marriage is divinely instituted recognised and sanctioned by God. Christian marriage should be coloured by 8. above. Marriage is ab initio a divinely sanctioned and honourable union.

14. If two unbelievers are married and one becomes a believer, the believer is enjoined to remain in the marriage

15. The children of a union described in 14. above are sanctified.

16. A marriage – Christian or otherwise - does not have to be transacted in church, or be considered in anyway incomplete or unsanctified if there is no Church – be that pastor or congregational – sign-off, laying off hands, prayer, anointing, offering, dancing to the altar or any other ritual or involvement. You can leave church single one Sunday and return married the next. As long as there is parental approval, scripturally “notin’ do you”.

17. Marriage is a family affair. Caveat emptor.

18. God hates divorce

Kindly stop calling yourself “Pastor”, unless it appears on your birth certificate. Sadly it’s as common as a middle name these days isn’t it? Please relinquish the self-arrogated authority over believers you have falsely assumed. Although it is not “spiritual” in that it is not divine, it is spiritual in the sense that it can dangerously bind and have spiritual consequences, for all concerned. Please humble yourselves and deny the desire for “pre-eminence that makes you even consider placing yourself as authority over believers. Could we please de-commission the terms “my church”, my ministry” and “my pastor”, they are about you, not Him.

Scriptural backing is available upon request. Where the statement is based on biblical silence, omission or absence, the onus is on the dissenter to evidence.

Have pleasant weekends all.

God bless
TV

Image123:

There's no big deal to this thread, why do people spend their lives arguing over nothing? They are both your parents, see my people dying for the letter. God have mercy. By the way, you can bless yourself.The above idea is enjoying undeserved liberty. By your matthew 23 logic, don't you think that Jesus said 'ONE father and He is in Heaven'. Why are you making it TWO and accusing others who make it 3 or more?
I'm quoting you, 'do not call ANYONE on earth your father'. When did your biological father escape ANYONE, or are you helping Jesus to sound more reasonable? Think hard, pray harder. The letter kills but the Spirit, Please do not insult me nuclear, thank you in advance.

@image123:

Let us clarify this "insult" matter.

You say "I should not insult you". Fine, I will not. But what is an insult? If I see a blind person and say "that guy is blind", is it a lie? OR is it an insult because the person prefers not to hear the truth? Friend, it is only when I call a sighted man "blind" that I insult him.

But when a man pretends to be blind so he can twist truth (implying I cannot see through such pretence), that is now an insult and totally unfair. It is a major insult to his audience's intelligence. And when they see through it and are expected to keep quiet to show solidarity, it is an insult to truth. It is an insult to Love. It is an insult to God.

Why did Jesus call the Pharisees hypocrites and we do not see that as insults? Because it was true! Why "white washed Sepulchres"? Because it was true. And my bro, that last phrase is totally deadly yabbing - to call a human being "a grave cleaned outside but rotting and stinking inside" . Jesus can yap O. BUT IT WAS TRUE SO IT WAS NOT AN INSULT or would you say Jesus was insulting them? So please, I do not insult when I say "the truth". Please don't go near "am I Christ" except you can show me how any pastor is Christ because I just said something while they "claim" far more.!

What is truly insulting and ironic is for someone who insults my intelligence to say I am insulting him because I point out the truth. But others outside Christianity are watching and will see through and seeing someone standing for truth will make them know at least, we are not all lying facing the same direction.

I WILL NOT insult you!. But if you wish to abuse me, curse me, insult me, GO AHEAD. What I want is that you should avoid insulting my intelligence and that of others! That is what you do when you twist words or obsfucate issues. It is infuriating and totally unfair.

@image123:

You said both parents and pastors ARE both your parents.

^^^ Look at that statement again - "your pastor and your parents are both your parents" Do you see the contradiction? God says "Honor your Father and your Mother". Then He says talking to Adults - "call no man on earth your father except God in Heaven". Did you ever consider that His disciples were fully grown men who may not even have had living "fathers" and that the context was just for purposes of respect (that they should not give to man what is due to God)?

Calling a man "Daddy GO" starts you off towards putting him between you and God. That is a terrible choice to make - to have another priest! Or graven image (representative of God)!

BTW, Paul says "Children, honor your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Honor your father and mother - which is the first commandment with a promise - that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth. Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord". Eph 6:1 - 4

Image123, according to the Bible then, who is to bring up people in the Lord?

Please, my brother, use that little voice that convicts when you are replying and do NOT insult my intelligence. I will see through it. Lets give honor to God - No man is Christ!

When Jesus said call no man father in matthew 23:9, he was talking within the temple(church) setting. He was refering to the elders/pharisees/saducees, in short the leadership of the church. If you read from the beginning of the chapter in context, this would become clear to you. Or better still read from the amplified bible, the amp bible makes it clear that Jesus was refering to the "church" leadership by that statement an NOT their biological father.

^^^ E X A C T L Y! 100% for you, Kunle, cos there truly was a context!

nuclearboy:

. . .   . Jesus can yap O.   . . .

Jesus can yab well well! Na so He call one mumu (in fact a whole king,) a fox --- {"go and tell that fox"} ; some other magas He been tell say their papa na liar and murderer from the beginning. In fact Him no send!

If I see a blind person and say "that guy is blind", is it a lie? OR is it an insult because the person prefers not to hear the truth? Friend, it is only when I call a sighted man "blind" that I insult him. But when a man pretends to be blind so he can twist truth (implying I cannot see through such pretence), that is now an insult and totally unfair. It is a major insult to his audience's intelligence. And when they see through it and are expected to keep quiet to show solidarity, it is an insult to truth. It is an insult to Love. It is an insult to God.

Mr, so you write parables, waoh, that christ-like,good of you.