In Christianity, the meaning of life is rooted in faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ. However, the proposition is not without serious problems.

1. First, if this is the purpose of creation and the precondition for eternal life, why was it not taught by the prophets to all the nations of the world?

2. Second, had God turned into man close to the time of Adam all mankind would have had an equal chance to eternal life, unless those before the time of Jesus had another purpose for their existence!

3. Third, how can people today who have not heard of Jesus fulfill the Christian purpose of creation? Naturally, such a purpose is too narrow and goes against divine justice.

What do you think?
Cc. LordReed, XxSabrinaxX, Budaatum, MuttleyLaff, NnennaG6, Ranchhoddas, Ihedinobi3, frank317, RuthlessLeader, TheArranger

These and many more constitute a gigantic body of issues with religion and Christianity in particular. Tell us that the god who loves the whole world, decided that the Hebrew nation with very little to distinguish itself, was the chosen one to take its message to the whole world and have the nation destroyed within a few hundred years of its zenith, without accomplishing said goal, does nothing to encourage me to accept that this is truth of any kind.

How does the god that created the whole universe require the services of a nomadic tribe of animal herders to proclaim its message to the whole world when they can't even navigate a 30day journey but take 40years? Bunch of nonsense I say.

The point of life in Christianity certainly makes a lot of sense. Follow Christ, live morally and preach so that others may also be saved. It's very commendable.

In my opinion, I feel like this OP is a cheap-shot against Christianity. The arguments just don't stack up.
1) The idea is that Christ comes at the appropriate time in history so that the maximum possible people freely accept it. This is certainly the Roman period, where the Roman Empire connected the entire Mediterranean and ideas and culture were flowing unlike any prior period in history.
2) The point of the earlier prophets was not to preach about Jesus, nor should it have been. Each had a certain moral goal to achieve with the Israelite's, and trying to conflate the job of one prophet with another is narrow-minded.
3) Obviously, people who haven't heard of Jesus can't fill the Christian purpose of creation ... but that's because they're not Christian. Nor are they required to if they haven't heard. The Bible is very clear people who haven't heard of the gospel are not judged for not knowing, so I see no problem.

NnennaG6:

1) The idea is that Christ comes at the appropriate time in history so that the maximum possible people freely accept it. This is certainly the Roman period, where the Roman Empire connected the entire Mediterranean and ideas and culture were flowing unlike any prior period in history.

If that is the qualifier then why not send Jesus now instead of the Roman times when with a simple tweet the world could know the actual existence of Jesus?

NnennaG6:

3) Obviously, people who haven't heard of Jesus can't fill the Christian purpose of creation ... but that's because they're not Christian. Nor are they required to if they haven't heard. The Bible is very clear people who haven't heard of the gospel are not judged for not knowing, so I see no problem.

Doesn't that make Christianity more dangerous to share with people? It creates an unfair advantage for those who never heard of Christianity. Second, why would your God even do it this way? It sounds completely inefficient.

Vic2Ree:

If that is the qualifier then why not send Jesus now instead of the Roman times when with a simple tweet the world could know the actual existence of Jesus?

What would God tweet that would convince you he was real? How many fingers you’re holding up?

The point is to maximize the number of people going to heaven. The reality is is the fact that knowing Christianity is true won't do this at all. There are hundreds of millions of Christians, absolutely certain Christianity is true, who nevertheless act in immoral ways and will not see the light of heaven. Getting people saved is much more complicated than announcing the truth. Even Satan knows Jesus died for our sins.

It is a logical Christian proposition that the way God acted in history will maximize the number of people being saved in all possible universes.

Vic2Ree:

Doesn't that make Christianity more dangerous to share with people? It creates an unfair advantage for those who never heard of Christianity. Second, why would your God even do it this way? It sounds completely inefficient.

It's actually the most efficient way, since there is no other possibiliy where more people are saved. Sharing the gospel with people is a good thing, since you simply make a wrong assumption -- the idea that if people don't hear the Gospel, they get an instantly free pass to heaven. Wrong, God still judges them based off of their moral decisions in relation to the information they have.

NnennaG6:

The point is to maximize the number of people going to heaven.

Okay you just proved my point. If Jesus Christ himself posted a tweet it would give solid reasoning at least to accept his existence and make it harder not to follow Christianity. A tweet can be read around the world, Christianity would not reach the "New World" until 1492.

NnennaG6:

Getting people saved is much more complicated than announcing the truth. Even Satan knows Jesus died for our sins.

A tweet from Jesus would do more than the Bible has the last 2,000 years. The truth is the most important part. It's why I'm an atheist.

NnennaG6:

It is a logical Christian proposition that the way God acted in history will maximize the number of people being saved in all possible universes.

If it's so effective then why did it leave out multiple continents?

NnennaG6:

It's actually the most efficient way, since there is no other possibiliy where more people are saved. Sharing the gospel with people is a good thing, since you simply make a wrong assumption -- the idea that if people don't hear the Gospel, they get an instantly free pass to heaven.

No it's not as stated above.

NnennaG6:
Wrong, God still judges them based off of their moral decisions in relation to the information they have.

Still sounds like an advantage to me. If I never heard of Christianity I would have that option available to me. But, because I reject Christianity from my experience with the religion and knowledge of the religion. I am damned to hell. So from my perspective it seems like they have an advantage over me.

Vic2Ree:

If Jesus Christ himself posted a tweet it would give solid reasoning at least to accept his existence and make it harder not to follow Christianity. A tweet can be read around the world, Christianity would not reach the "New World" until 1492.

You're failing to hear me. The plain reality is that a single tweet from Jesus wouldn't increase the number of people being saved by even one. There's no point in rewriting my comment if you're going to fail to offer a rebuttal.

Vic2Ree:

If it's so effective then why did it leave out multiple continents?

There's a difference between being incredibly effective, which Christianity certainly is, and being infinitely effective. Christianity is the most effective religion in history. The Bible is in more languages than any other document by a gigantic margin. It would take some sneering intellectual dishonesty to deny the effectivity of Christianity. Give us a few more decades and we'll continue taking over academia as well.

Vic2Ree:

Still sounds like an advantage to me. If I never heard of Christianity I would have that option available to me.

It would take very little thought to get to that conclusion. Someone who wouldn't accept Christianity if they heard about it is unlikely to choose the right morals on their own to begin with. The fat fallacy in your thinking is that going to heaven is a total coincidence of your social conditioning rather than your objective moral character.

Vic2Ree:
In Christianity, the meaning of life is rooted in faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ. However, the proposition is not without serious problems.

1. First, if this is the purpose of creation and the precondition for eternal life, why was it not taught by the prophets to all the nations of the world?

2. Second, had God turned into man close to the time of Adam all mankind would have had an equal chance to eternal life, unless those before the time of Jesus had another purpose for their existence!

3. Third, how can people today who have not heard of Jesus fulfill the Christian purpose of creation? Naturally, such a purpose is too narrow and goes against divine justice.

What do you think?
Cc. LordReed, XxSabrinaxX, Budaatum, MuttleyLaff, NnennaG6, Ranchhoddas, Ihedinobi3, frank317, RuthlessLeader, TheArranger

You made some decent points but what it boils down to is that people want to live forever and they feel like that gives them some purpose - strive for the food afterlife while avoiding the bad one. This problem plagues more than just Christianity with the heaven/hell concepts shared in Zoroastrianism and Islam with some similarities in Greek mythology, Egyptian mythology, and a temporary hell in some religions with reincarnation.

Many western religions are based on the fear of eternal torture vs eternal bliss and many eastern religions are based the constant struggle to end ones own conscious existence. The western religions don't always include eternal torture and thus you can live forever if you believe in or do the right things in life making life meaningless especially for those predestined to live forever as work expands to fill the time allotted. You live forever and eventually you run out of any good reason to continue living and lose out on the due date by which your goals need to be completed. Sure dying means that in the end nothing really matters except for how we are remembered in the minds of those left behind - but we gain nothing by wrapping our lips around the colon of an undetectable being. In this way western religions give us the choice between two forms of hell or ceasing to exist.

Eastern religions and other religions which struggle with reincarnation with nirvana as a goal at least don't see life in the same way. You do good so that eventually you no longer have to struggle or remember anything. Eventually you can just sleep forever and keep trying until you reach that goal. Eternity is inevitable and you struggle to end the cycle of rebirth.

In both cases they act like death isn't the final destination because somehow they can't accept reality. Somehow they want something more than 70 years of they are lucky. They don't see life for what it is. The point in life does make a bit more sense in eastern religions because the reward is worthwhile but the means by which it happens is unsupported. Why not just accept that this is all you get and find purpose in knowing that? Then your life have meaning and purpose for you while you are actually experiencing it and for those who reap the benefits or detriments of your existence. Mattering only matters when there is someone to matter to and this is how we can derive purpose and how we can relish in every second we are allowed to experience. We have a greater reason to keep on living and we have a definite end - you can never matter eternally but that's not the point in nattering in the present while there are people to matter to and experiences by which to make nattering worthwhile.

If you are just reincarnated you get eternity to work this basic truth out extending the deadline out as much as necessary - though we don't get second chances at life. If you go to heaven or hell then we should just start there because after you compare an entire lifetime to eternity this life amounts to nothing. There's no point in living at all if what comes beyond is the real purpose in any of this - but there is no joy in eternity so it is far better to accept reality and deal with death in a better way than just pretending it is a stumbling block to eternal life.

XxSabrinaxX:

You made some decent points but what it boils down to is that people want to live forever and they feel like that gives them some purpose - strive for the food afterlife while avoiding the bad one. This problem plagues more than just Christianity with the heaven/hell concepts shared in Zoroastrianism and Islam with some similarities in Greek mythology, Egyptian mythology, and a temporary hell in some religions with reincarnation.

Many western religions are based on the fear of eternal torture vs eternal bliss and many eastern religions are based the constant struggle to end ones own conscious existence. The western religions don't always include eternal torture and thus you can live forever if you believe in or do the right things in life making life meaningless especially for those predestined to live forever as work expands to fill the time allotted. You live forever and eventually you run out of any good reason to continue living and lose out on the due date by which your goals need to be completed. Sure dying means that in the end nothing really matters except for how we are remembered in the minds of those left behind - but we gain nothing by wrapping our lips around the colon of an undetectable being. In this way western religions give us the choice between two forms of hell or ceasing to exist.

Eastern religions and other religions which struggle with reincarnation with nirvana as a goal at least don't see life in the same way. You do good so that eventually you no longer have to struggle or remember anything. Eventually you can just sleep forever and keep trying until you reach that goal. Eternity is inevitable and you struggle to end the cycle of rebirth.

In both cases they act like death isn't the final destination because somehow they can't accept reality. Somehow they want something more than 70 years of they are lucky. They don't see life for what it is. The point in life does make a bit more sense in eastern religions because the reward is worthwhile but the means by which it happens is unsupported. Why not just accept that this is all you get and find purpose in knowing that? Then your life have meaning and purpose for you while you are actually experiencing it and for those who reap the benefits or detriments of your existence. Mattering only matters when there is someone to matter to and this is how we can derive purpose and how we can relish in every second we are allowed to experience. We have a greater reason to keep on living and we have a definite end - you can never matter eternally but that's not the point in nattering in the present while there are people to matter to and experiences by which to make nattering worthwhile.

If you are just reincarnated you get eternity to work this basic truth out extending the deadline out as much as necessary - though we don't get second chances at life. If you go to heaven or hell then we should just start there because after you compare an entire lifetime to eternity this life amounts to nothing. There's no point in living at all if what comes beyond is the real purpose in any of this - but there is no joy in eternity so it is far better to accept reality and deal with death in a better way than just pretending it is a stumbling block to eternal life.

pls I'm on the path of self realization, can you be my guide?I need help,my determination to realize the truth is so strong

NnennaG6:

You're failing to hear me. The plain reality is that a single tweet from Jesus wouldn't increase the number of people being saved by even one. There's no point in rewriting my comment if you're going to fail to offer a rebuttal.

This is an unsubstantiated claim.

NnennaG6:

There's a difference between being incredibly effective, which Christianity certainly is, and being infinitely effective. Christianity is the most effective religion in history. The Bible is in more languages than any other document by a gigantic margin. It would take some sneering intellectual dishonesty to deny the effectivity of Christianity. Give us a few more decades and we'll continue taking over academia as well.

It's really not that effective. Furthermore, Islam is proving to be more effective if we are just talking numbers here. If Jesus was alive today he would have more effective ways to communicate than ancient times.

NnennaG6:

It would take very little thought to get to that conclusion. Someone who wouldn't accept Christianity if they heard about it is unlikely to choose the right morals on their own to begin with. The fat fallacy in your thinking is that going to heaven is a total coincidence of your social conditioning rather than your objective moral character.

Another unsubstantiated claim and false claims too. What are we deciding as right morals? What? I don't believe in objective morality.

Vic2Ree:

This is an unsubstantiated claim.

Actually, it's not me who has to offer the evidence. I'm simply pointing out that there's not a hint of reason to think more exposure would lead to more people being saved. This fallaciously assumes that knowing Christianity is true increases your odds of being saved. But it has nothing to do with that -- it only has to do with someone's moral character. Even Satan knows Christianity is true.

Vic2Ree:

It's really not that effective.

2.3 billion followers, more language translations of the Bible than any other document. I know you're trying to be dumb, but you need to know when you're a wee bit too good at something.

Vic2Ree:
Furthermore, Islam is proving to be more effective if we are just talking numbers here.

Might want to do a quick google double-check before writing something this wrong.

Vic2Ree:

What are we deciding as right morals?

See New Testament.

Vic2Ree:
Another unsubstantiated claim and false claims too.

What false claims?

NnennaG6:

There's a difference between being incredibly effective, which Christianity certainly is, and being infinitely effective. Christianity is the most effective religion in history. The Bible is in more languages than any other document by a gigantic margin. It would take some sneering intellectual dishonesty to deny the effectivity of Christianity. Give us a few more decades and we'll continue taking over academia as well.

LMFAO! Effective indeed. So it takes your god 6 days to create the universe but takes it 4000years to spread knowledge of itself and even after 4000years there are people who have no idea such a god exists? And you call that effective? It doesn't take sneering intellectual dishonesty, it takes a decent bit of self awareness to not have such cognitive dissonance.

Vic2Ree:
In Christianity, the meaning of life is rooted in faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ. However, the proposition is not without serious problems.

Hmm. That's rather simplistic I think. Especially the use of words "live, faith, gospel, eternal life", and even 'Jesus Christ', words that have become so multimeaningful!

Consider the following, "The Christian purpose for living is rooted in the teachings of Jesus Christ," which he summarised as "love". Now tell, what exactly is the problem with that?

Vic2Ree:
1. First, if this is the purpose of creation and the precondition for eternal life, why was it not taught by the prophets to all the nations of the world?

Based on my above comment, that "The Christian purpose for living is rooted in the teachings of Jesus Christ", It has been taught by prophets to all nations of the world.

Seven Important Lessons from World Religions Everyone Should Know

Vic2Ree:
2. Second, had God turned into man close to the time of Adam all mankind would have had an equal chance to eternal life, unless those before the time of Jesus had another purpose for their existence!

Eternal life could have meant three score and ten in times when the average lifespan was less than 40 years. And 'God' has taken on a human presence so all humans have an equal chance of a living!

The question "What is God?" Would however need to be addressed before this is understood. I might go back to that thread once I've heard from the Holy Ghosts.

Vic2Ree:
3. Third, how can people today who have not heard of Jesus fulfill the Christian purpose of creation? Naturally, such a purpose is too narrow and goes against divine justice.

Remember my multimeaningful at the beginning where I included Christ? Consider the following Gospel of Christ which I summarise below:

The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works before his deeds of old; I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be. I was constantly at his side filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, in his whole world and delighting in mankind. “Now then, my children, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways.

Everyone has heard of 'Jesus Christ'. 'He' stands at the highest point raising her voice calling out to all humans, "You who are simple, gain prudence; you who are foolish, set your hearts on it."

Now tell if it is not true that whosoever understandeth what is being said here will be live with a better life?

budaatum:

Hmm. That's rather simplistic I think. Especially the use of words "live, faith, gospel, eternal life", and even 'Jesus Christ', words that have become so multimeaningful!

Consider the following, "The Christian purpose for living is rooted in the teachings of Jesus Christ," which he summarised as "love". Now tell, what exactly is the problem with that?


Based on my above comment, that "The Christian purpose for living is rooted in the teachings of Jesus Christ", It has been taught by prophets to all nations of the world.

Seven Important Lessons from World Religions Everyone Should Know


Eternal life could have meant three score and ten in times when the average lifespan was less than 40 years. And 'God' has taken on a human presence so all humans have an equal chance of a living!

The question "What is God?" Would however need to be addressed before this is understood. I might go back to that thread once I've heard from the Holy Ghosts.


Remember my multimeaningful at the beginning where I included Christ? Consider the following Gospel of Christ which I summarise below:

The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works before his deeds of old; I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be. I was constantly at his side filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, in his whole world and delighting in mankind. “Now then, my children, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways.

Everyone has heard of 'Jesus Christ'. 'He' stands at the highest point raising her voice calling out to all humans, "You who are simple, gain prudence; you who are foolish, set your hearts on it."

Now tell if it is not true that whosoever understandeth what is being said here will be live with a better life?

pls what is consciousness... I've Google it but the answers aren't satisfactory

futurist369:
pls what is consciousness... I've Google it but the answers aren't satisfactory

The answers aren't satisfactory, or you don't understand the answers?

I advise you make it the latter and work at making the answers satisfactory.

budaatum:

The answers aren't satisfactory, or you don't understand the answers?

I advise you make it the latter and work at making the answers satisfactory.

yeah, I really don't understand the answers.... My determination to know the truth is getting stronger every day

futurist369:
yeah, I really don't understand the answers.... My determination to know the truth is getting stronger every day

You don't understand because you choose not to understand, but when your determination to know the truth is strong enough, your eyes will open and you shall see.

I shall not continue with you here as it derails the thread.

3) Obviously, people who haven't heard of Jesus can't fill the Christian purpose of creation ... but that's because they're not Christian. Nor are they required to if they haven't heard. The Bible is very clear people who haven't heard of the gospel are not judged for not knowing, so I see no problem.

FALSE
That is not what the bible says

U were the one who said in the other thread that there is no contradiction on the bible,which means every single passage in the bible that addresses an issue is making the same point, or at least not negating each other,now here is a passage where Jesus himself told us the class of people that would go to heaven

John 3 : 3
Jesus answered and said to him,"Most assuredly,I say to you,unless one is born again,he cannot see the kingdom of God

Please if a person does not hear about Jesus and believe in him can he be born again, NO !

You claim that man can please Yahweh without being born again but here is what your bible says

Romans 8 : 8
So then,those who are in the flesh CANNOT PLEASE GOD

Please justify that what you say is in accordance with these two passages I shared

Vic2Ree:
In Christianity, the meaning of life is rooted in faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Excellent. Well done. Seriously. Because not that many people actually know that that is what Christianity is about.

Vic2Ree:
However, the proposition is not without serious problems.

It has no problems at all as you will soon see...if you have eyes for such things.

Vic2Ree:
1. First, if this is the purpose of creation and the precondition for eternal life, why was it not taught by the prophets to all the nations of the world?

Who says it wasn't? From Adam and Eve until now, there is no place under the heavens where the Gospel did not go if anyone had any inclination at all to hear it.

Vic2Ree:
2. Second, had God turned into man close to the time of Adam all mankind would have had an equal chance to eternal life, unless those before the time of Jesus had another purpose for their existence!

All mankind has always had an equal chance for eternal life. Before the Lord Jesus came to die for sin, the Gospel committed to Adam and Eve in the Garden and the later Law of Moses made sure that anyone who wanted to be saved was saved.

Vic2Ree:
3. Third, how can people today who have not heard of Jesus fulfill the Christian purpose of creation? Naturally, such a purpose is too narrow and goes against divine justice.

First, there is nobody who desires it who has not or will not hear the Gospel.

Second, how is the purpose narrow?

Third, how does it go against divine justice?

Vic2Ree:
What do you think?

That YOU HAVE heard the Gospel and are wasting precious time asking about other people who are not your business.

Vic2Ree:
In Christianity, the meaning of life is rooted in faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ. However, the proposition is not without serious problems.

1. First, if this is the purpose of creation and the precondition for eternal life, why was it not taught by the prophets to all the nations of the world?

not all prophet are of God, before the coming of Christ there were prophets who testified of Christ coming.

2. Second, had God turned into man close to the time of Adam all mankind would have had an equal chance to eternal life, unless those before the time of Jesus had another purpose for their existence!

God'said timing is perfect!

You are just like an ignorant man criticising a professional base on his perceived sense.

3. Third, how can people today who have not heard of Jesus fulfill the Christian purpose of creation? Naturally, such a purpose is too narrow and goes against divine justice.

it fulfills, God does things according to his purpose.
God knows exact people that will be saved. There is no body who has no knowledge about the supreme God and if that knowledge is reject there is little or nothing that can be done. God knows those who will receive his gift and so he does things accordingly don't worry about those who didn't hear for they shall be judged according to the knowledge they received about God.

I m yet to met an intelligent atheist on this forum.

solite3:
I m yet to met an intelligent atheist on this forum.

Your bible called us fools and you expect to meet an intelligent atheist,are you sure u are ok

Hermes019:

Your bible called us fools and you expect to meet an intelligent atheist,are you sure u are ok

LMAO!

Hermes019:

Your bible called us fools and you expect to meet an intelligent atheist,are you sure u are ok

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.