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The True Muslims? by tintingz(m): 2:40pm On Feb 03, 2019
There are conflicts in the Muslim world especially in their philosophy and ideology, there are various sects in Islam claiming to be the true Muslims, I think the large sects are the Sunni and Shia Muslims.

Muslim A claim Muslim B is not a true Muslim while Muslim B claim Muslim A is not a true Muslim, both sects are committing fallacy which is the "No true Scotsman or appeal to purity fallacy".

Now this is where the problem and confusion lies, there's an Hadith that said many sect of Islam will enter hell and only one will be in paradise.

It was narrated from Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stood among us and said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).”


All these sects have their dogmas backup with the Islamic text, who is now the one true muslim sect going to paradise?

Even being a Muslim is a problem!
Re: The True Muslims? by Empiree: 11:05pm On Feb 03, 2019
Why are you worried about muslims altogether since you don't believe in their basics tenets which they all believe in without questions?.

You are still fake atheist that is being constantly troubled by his inner self undecided When you know your true self, only then you may be able to question muslims.

For now, your thread is irrelevant cheesy

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Re: The True Muslims? by tintingz(m): 12:47am On Feb 04, 2019
Empiree:
Why are you worried about muslims altogether since you don't believe in their basics tenets which they all believe in without questions?.

You are still fake atheist that is being constantly troubled by his inner self undecided When you know your true self, only then you may be able to question muslims.

For now, your thread is irrelevant cheesy
Red herring and Non sequitur fallacy.

The thread clearly demonstrate the problems and delusion being a Muslim. Even as a Muslim one is not sure if he/she falls under the sect that will be in paradise!

This is problematic.
Re: The True Muslims? by Empiree: 4:23am On Feb 04, 2019
tintingz:
Red herring and Non sequitur fallacy.

The thread clearly demonstrate the problems and delusion being a Muslim. Even as a Muslim one is not sure if he/she falls under the sect that will be in paradise!

This is problematic.

still, why is this your concern?. You are not a Muslim. So why are you worried about muslims?

1 Like

Re: The True Muslims? by AlBaqir(m): 4:31am On Feb 04, 2019
Empiree:
still, why is this your concern?. You are not a Muslim. So are you worried about muslims?


He's an attention seeker.

3 Likes

Re: The True Muslims? by Rashduct4luv(m): 8:43am On Feb 04, 2019
tintingz:
There are conflicts in the Muslim world especially in their philosophy, there are various sects in Islam claiming to be the true Muslims, I think the large sects are the Sunni and Shia Muslims.

Muslim A claim Muslim B is not a true Muslim while Muslim B claim Muslim A is not a true Muslim, both sects are committing fallacy which is the "No true Scotsman or appeal to purity fallacy".

Now this is where the problem and confusion lies, there's an Hadith that said many sect of Islam will enter hell and only one will be in paradise.

It was narrated from Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stood among us and said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).”


All these sects have their dogmas backup with the Islamic text, who is now the one true muslim sect going to paradise?

Even being a Muslim is a problem!

Actually being a Muslim is not the problem but being an atheist disguised in a Muslim environment is the Problem.

2 Likes

Re: The True Muslims? by tintingz(m): 10:15am On Feb 04, 2019
Rashduct4luv:


Actually being a Muslim is not the problem but being an atheist disguised in a Muslim environment is the Problem.
There's a problem when a good Muslim is going to hell.

And there is a problem when an atheist open up in a religious society with barbaric practice.

Focus on the topic and quit the ad hominem fallacy.

3 Likes

Re: The True Muslims? by tintingz(m): 10:29am On Feb 04, 2019
Empiree:
still, why is this your concern?. You are not a Muslim. So are you worried about muslims?
Again non sequitur fallacy.

It's my concern, this is religion, a public matter, my position is an opposition to your beliefs, you can't tell me what to discuss about.

You should be worried you might be going to hell. grin
Re: The True Muslims? by Empiree: 12:56pm On Feb 04, 2019
tintingz:
Again non sequitur fallacy.

It's my concern, this is religion, a public matter, my position is an opposition to your beliefs, you can't tell me what to discuss about.

You should be worried you might be going to hell. grin
as a saying goes, shaytan is powerful but can not afford salvation. He's making your deeds and thoughts seemingly sensible to you. But the Lord knows and reading audience also know that you are making fool of yourself.

1 Like

Re: The True Muslims? by tintingz(m): 1:11pm On Feb 04, 2019
Empiree:
as a saying goes, shaytan is powerful but can not accord salvation. He's making your deeds and thoughts seemingly sensible to you. But the Lord knows and reading audience also know that you are making fool of yourself.
Ad hominem.

What's sensible in your religion when only one sect is going to paradise. grin

Over billions of people will be in hell. My goodness. cheesy

2 Likes

Re: The True Muslims? by Rashduct4luv(m): 1:16pm On Feb 04, 2019
tintingz:
There's a problem when a good Muslim is going to hell.

And there is a problem when an atheist open up in a religious society with barbaric practice.

Focus on the topic and quit the ad hominem fallacy.


Atheist language sha!

Ad hominem fallacy, Red herring, Argument from ignorance, non sequitur fallacy, abeg wetin remain?
Re: The True Muslims? by Rashduct4luv(m): 1:29pm On Feb 04, 2019
tintingz:
Ad hominem.

What's sensible in your religion when only one sect is going to paradise. grin

Over billions of people will be in hell. My goodness. cheesy

Can you calculate how many people had ever been on earth both mankind and Jinn?

Sorry Jinn is an argument from ignorance!
Re: The True Muslims? by tintingz(m): 1:30pm On Feb 04, 2019
Rashduct4luv:



Atheist language sha!

Ad hominem fallacy, Red herring, Argument from ignorance, non sequitur fallacy, abeg wetin remain?
It's not atheist language, they are logical fallacies in debates and philosophy.

The only way to make an argument sane and moderate is to avoid fallacies.
Re: The True Muslims? by tintingz(m): 1:38pm On Feb 04, 2019
Rashduct4luv:


Can you calculate how many people had ever been on earth both mankind and Jinn?

Sorry Jinn is an argument from ignorance!
As at now there are over billions of people who are non-muslims in the world, Christians alone are estimated to be 2.4 billions, now add them(all non Muslims) with Muslim sects that won't make heaven, that's some hell of people going to burn forever! We have not even talk about the past and future!

My goodness what a merciful God, he love the smell of suya. shocked

Jinns are not argument from ignorance, they are imaginary.
Re: The True Muslims? by Rashduct4luv(m): 2:03pm On Feb 04, 2019
tintingz:
As at now there are over billions of people who are non-muslims in the world, Christians alone are estimated to be 2.4 billions, now add them(all non Muslims) with Muslim sects that won't make heaven, that's some hell of people going to burn forever! We have not even talk about the past and future!

My goodness what a merciful God, he love the smell of suya. shocked

Jinns are not argument from ignorance, they are imaginary.

Stop the argument from ignorance! The Christians are not dead yet. They may change to the right way!
Everyone has the tenacity to differentiate between right and wrong! Unlike you that has shut your reasoning!

Hell is big enough for all them and it will even ask for more!
Re: The True Muslims? by tintingz(m): 3:01pm On Feb 04, 2019
Rashduct4luv:


Stop the argument from ignorance! The Christians are not dead yet. They may change to the right way!
Everyone has the tenacity to differentiate between right and wrong! Unlike you that has shut your reasoning!

Hell is big enough for all them and it will even ask for more!
Lol, it does not change the billions of people going to hell, Allah the merciful good god like the smell of suya. cheesy

You're not even sure if you will be in paradise or join us in hell. smiley
Re: The True Muslims? by Rashduct4luv(m): 3:18pm On Feb 04, 2019
tintingz:
Lol, it does not change the billions of people going to hell, Allah the merciful good god like the smell of suya. cheesy

You're not even sure if you will be in paradise or join us in hell. smiley


is anything sure in atheism?
Re: The True Muslims? by tintingz(m): 3:33pm On Feb 04, 2019
Rashduct4luv:


is anything sure in atheism?
Yes many.
Re: The True Muslims? by Rashduct4luv(m): 3:42pm On Feb 04, 2019
tintingz:
Yes many.


ok, who was the controller of Big Bang?

What was before big bang?
Re: The True Muslims? by tintingz(m): 3:46pm On Feb 04, 2019
Rashduct4luv:


ok, who was the controller of Big Bang?

What was before big bang?


This does not align with the thread topic.

To answer your question, no one knows.
Re: The True Muslims? by Empiree: 4:30pm On Feb 04, 2019
tintingz:
Ad hominem.

What's sensible in your religion when only one sect is going to paradise. grin

Over billions of people will be in hell. My goodness. cheesy
Your thinking faculty is very vile undecided
Re: The True Muslims? by usermane(m): 5:16pm On Feb 04, 2019
It was narrated from Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stood among us and said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).”

What does the above hadith mean?

It mean that only mainstream Muslims are true Muslims deserving of paradise. The mainstream Muslims apparently are the largest Muslim sect - the Sunnites. This is the unbiased truth. Right

But what if you're like me, heterodox or not mainstream - because you don't believe in certain Islamic texts like hadith books. Can you be a true Muslim, do you deserve paradise?

2 Likes

Re: The True Muslims? by usermane(m): 5:17pm On Feb 04, 2019
If we flip through the Qur'an, we run through multiple verses informing us that; anyone who believes and is righteous, will be spared of the hell fire - 40:40, 103:3, 2:82, 3:57, 4:57 etc. No single verse in the Qur'an ever endorse the Ja'maah/Main body.

So why the Ja'maah? After all, it is not immune to corruption and just as the Ja'maah of other religious communities like Christians and Jews fell astray, the Ja'maah of Muslim community could as well fall astray. For instance, see these hadith;
Re: The True Muslims? by usermane(m): 5:18pm On Feb 04, 2019
Ibn Majah >> Book of Tribulations:
“You will most certainly follow the ways of those who came before you, arm’s length by arm’s length, forearm’s length by forearm’s length, hand span by hand span, until even if they entered a hole of a mastigure (lizard) you will enter it too.” They said: “O Messenger of Allah, (do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?” He said: “Who else?”

Book of Jihad: Muwatta Malik:
The Messenger said over the martyrs of Uhud, "I testify for them." Abu Bakr as-Siddiq said, "Messenger of Allah! Are we not their brothers? We entered Islam as they entered Islam and we did jihad as they did jihad." The Messenger said, "Yes, but I do not know what you will do after me." Abu Bakr wept profusely and said, "Are we really going to out-live you!"
Re: The True Muslims? by usermane(m): 5:18pm On Feb 04, 2019
If we turn to Qur'an 6:116, we are clearly cautioned against following the crowd, bandwagon. The Ja'maah reminds us of a crowd, bandwagon. It offers nothing but a false sense of security, a sort of strength in numbers. This is why Muslims belonging to this Ja'maah love converts and convert stories. The more the converts to their version of Islam - the Ja'maah, the larger the Ja'maah. And the larger the Ja'maah, the stronger the sense of security.

This in mind, how did the hadith on the 73 sects and the Ja'maah arise in Sunnite traditions?
Re: The True Muslims? by usermane(m): 5:19pm On Feb 04, 2019
This hadith highlight the depth of divide among the early Muslims, on both political and theological front. Decades & centuries post Muhammad, political and theological divisions that broke among early Muslims threatened and culminated in civil wars and assassinations of caliphs.

To forestall these divisions and preserve unity and tighten grip on the masses, there arose the need for propaganda. Thus, hadith like the emergence of 73 sects and sticking to the Ja'maah could have been invented. In fact, there are so many variations of these hadith, such as;
Re: The True Muslims? by usermane(m): 5:19pm On Feb 04, 2019
Sahih Bukhari >> Book of Affliction:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Whoever notices something which he dislikes done by his ruler, then he should be patient, for whoever becomes separate from the company of the Muslims even for a span and then dies, he will die as those who died in the Pre-lslamic period of Ignorance.

More likely than not, the hadith on the 73 sects was a political ploy to consolidate power. The promise of salvation for those who stick with the Ja'maah is an empty one, and only stupid or gullible Muslims buy into it.
Re: The True Muslims? by Empiree: 8:14pm On Feb 04, 2019
^^^

You presented salafi interpretation of the hadith of 73 sects. Islam does not recognize sects. Rather it warned against it. So the hadith is only precaution. This hadith has been critically explained and everyone got their opinion. Predominant opinion is "Jammah" in which nabi(saw) and his sahaba(rodiyaAllahu anihum) are those who believe and follow basic tenets of islam and try to abide by islamic principles. Some may just do better than others.

So all supposed sects in islam actually pray salat the same way, fast the same way, go to the same hajj, pay zakah and so on. These fact are established and passed down. If you believe in 73 sects hadith, how about those who belong to no sect like me?

2 Likes

Re: The True Muslims? by tintingz(m): 8:18pm On Feb 04, 2019
Empiree:
Your thinking faculty is very vile undecided
Sigh.
Re: The True Muslims? by tintingz(m): 8:23pm On Feb 04, 2019
The "no true Scotsman" fallacy is on. cheesy

1 Like

Re: The True Muslims? by najib632(m): 2:01am On Feb 13, 2019
tintingz:
There are conflicts in the Muslim world especially in their philosophy, there are various sects in Islam claiming to be the true Muslims, I think the large sects are the Sunni and Shia Muslims.

Muslim A claim Muslim B is not a true Muslim while Muslim B claim Muslim A is not a true Muslim, both sects are committing fallacy which is the "No true Scotsman or appeal to purity fallacy".

Now this is where the problem and confusion lies, there's an Hadith that said many sect of Islam will enter hell and only one will be in paradise.

It was narrated from Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stood among us and said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).”


All these sects have their dogmas backup with the Islamic text, who is now the one true muslim sect going to paradise?

Even being a Muslim is a problem!
Allah will not put a Muslim in the hell fire because of his sect, but He will do so to those who follow innovations without a just reason.
Re: The True Muslims? by najib632(m): 2:11am On Feb 13, 2019
tintingz:
Ad hominem.

What's sensible in your religion when only one sect is going to paradise. grin

Over billions of people will be in hell. My goodness. cheesy
Allah will still take them out of hell as long as they die without associating partners in worship with Allah and they were not hypocrites and worshipping for the sake of the praise of the people and didn't murder a person without any just reason. As long as a person says La ilaa ha illa Llah Muhammadu RasululLah he will be saved from the hell fire even if the faith he has is like the weight of an atom provided the afore mentioned conditions are met. The magicians, pagans, atheists, hypocrites, arrogant disbelievers, oppressors, cheats, liers, murderers, fornicators and adultrators, usury consumers, and all other bad people will be in hell. Any Muslim that dies on major sin without repenting and will be in hell fire and only Allah will save them

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