It is the opinion of some non believers, that the concept of karma was merely an invention, instigated to promote morality amongst humans.This belief in karma, they also argue, to be flawed. Because, to them the ideology uses the doctrine of an afterlife, to create an infinite number of chances for good deeds and evil deeds committed, to receive recompense. Hence defeating the stronghold of certainty, which serves as its very conceptual bedrock.
And the theist being very aware of these uncertainties, improvise the pursuit of a great reward that might be, or an avoidance of a great damnation that might not be, as an escape route. Hence the birthing of the Pascal Wager's syndrome.

The question that now lies before us all is
How many will still choose to live moral, if the doctrine of heaven and hell were never part of your Faith's teaching, are you merely serving God because you were told that it pays, and would have done otherwise if it didn't. If no why?

peacesamuel94:



How many will still choose to live moral, if the doctrine of heaven and hell were never part of your Faith's teaching

Without the fear of GOD's judgment or human law/rules, morality won't exist.

OpenYourEyes1:



Without the fear of GOD's judgment or human law/rules, morality won't exist.

So are you saying that your reason for belonging in the faith, was due to fear of a consequent experience of hell if you didn't?

peacesamuel94:


So are you saying that your reason for belonging in the faith, was due to fear of a consequent experience of hell if you didn't?

Ofcourse. I was a bit refined by the fear of GOD's Almighty.
The thought of killing, telling lies, fornicating, stealing, cheating or being self-centered scare me to death because GOD's judgment.

OpenYourEyes1:


Ofcourse. I was a bit refined by the fear of GOD's Almighty.
The thought of killing, telling lies, fornicating, stealing, cheating or being self-centered scare me to death because GOD's judgment.

Well, I don't think any faith driven by fear is still qualified to be called faith because what is layed bare in the face of such mindset is the presence of doubt.
Such belief system, plays culprit to why the Christian religion, especially the one practiced in Nigeria continue to give rise to new sects and denominations almost everyday.
Because their propounders are after what to gain and what not to loose.they have devised and invented enticing doctrines that will first and foremost enrich them here on earth, which without their intention, exposes their glaring uncertainty of the afterlife which they so much preach about.
And amongst mortals the greatest representation of earthly gain is money. The result in the end becomes the monetization of the gospel.

No heaven and hell = NO Christians

frosbel2:
No heaven and hell = NO Christians

That is not quite true. Not all religions, give promise of an afterlife, yet people still practice them.

OpenYourEyes1:


Ofcourse. I was a bit refined by the fear of GOD's Almighty.
The thought of killing, telling lies, fornicating, stealing, cheating or being self-centered scare me to death because GOD's judgment.

This is very serious and important.

We have been offered an insight into the inner world of many (especially African) Christians. They genuinely experience themselves as corrupt, wicked and at the mercy of every evil thought and whim. Only cosmic threats and ultimatums prevent them from acting out their most sinister fantasies on a daily basis. Constant prayer and hope of making heaven offer the only protection from their own twisted instincts.

Welcome to the soul of a sociopath. I often wonder what has made such people so joyless, desperately unloved and dangerously unhappy...

May whatever idea of God you believe in keep you, guard you and guide you because y'all left 'Team Human' a looong, looong time ago...

peacesamuel94:



Well, I don't think any faith driven by fear is still qualified to be called faith because what is layed bare in the face of such mindset is the presence of doubt.
Such belief system, plays culprit to why the Christian religion, especially the one practiced in Nigeria continue to give rise to new sects and denominations almost everyday.
Because their propounders are after what to gain and what not to loose.they have devised and invented enticing doctrines that will first and foremost enrich them year on earth, which without their intention, exposes their glaring uncertainty of the afterlife which they so much preach about.
And amongst mortals the greatest representation of earthly gain is money. The result in the end becomes the monetization of the gospel.

I like it like that bro. It made me a better person.

OpenYourEyes1:


I like it like that bro. It made me a better person.

Only a fool does not understand the blessings of Holy Terror and fear of the Almighty.

Just imagine what Nigeria would be without it!!

OpenYourEyes1:


I like it like that bro. It made me a better person.

Suit yourself bro, whatever works for you.

TrajansKong:


This is very serious and important.

We have been offered an insight into the inner world of many (especially African) Christians. They genuinely experience themselves as corrupt, wicked and at the mercy of every evil thought and whim. Only cosmic threats and ultimatums prevent them from acting out their most sinister fantasies on a daily basis. Constant prayer and hope of making heaven offer the only protection from their own twisted instincts.

Welcome to the soul of a sociopath. I often wonder what has made such people so joyless, desperately unloved and dangerously unhappy...

May whatever idea of God you believe in keep you, guard you and guide you because y'all left 'Team Human' a looong, looong time ago...

On what ground is your morality based?

peacesamuel94:




That is not quite true. Not all religions, give promise of an afterlife, yet people still practice them.

You're right. But you can't deny that a lot of Christians are motivated by everlasting joy in heaven and frightened by the thought of eternal misery in hell.

peacesamuel94:
It is the opinion.,..

The question that now lies before us all is
How many will still choose to live moral, if the doctrine of heaven and hell were never part of your Faith's teaching, are you merely serving God because you were told that it pays, and would have done otherwise if it didn't. If no why?

Please answer this question:
I hope you have a healthy relationship with your parents. Do you Honor and Obey them because of the fear of Punishment or because of your Relationship with them?

I think You have a serious misconception of who a Christian is. A Christian isn't a person trying to avoid "punishment" of hell....NO!

Of course, this question of yours is only hypothetical because Christianity is NOT a Religion

Religion is what man does in order to please the Divine.

Christianity is a RELATIONSHIP with the Creator where God Himself is the relationship Builder!

johnydon22:


On what ground is your morality based?

I like feeling good. I don't like feeling bad. I don't want to harm others because I don't want others to harm me. I like peace so I like seeing people at peace. I enjoy freedom, so I enjoy helping others to be free.

I'm a social being. I have family and friends. I'm a mammal. None of this is hard. There's no philosophy involved. Wolves and monkeys know these things and yet, somehow, many of our religious brothers and sisters need books and unceasing prayer to stop them from murdering and raping or 'turning gay'

This is strange and sad.

TrajansKong:


I like feeling good. I don't like feeling bad. I don't want to harm others because I don't want others to harm me. I like peace so I like seeing people at peace. I enjoy freedom, so I enjoy helping others to be free.

So, what makes these things morally right?

I'm a social being. I have family and friends. I'm a mammal. None of this is hard. There's no philosophy involved. Wolves and monkeys know these things and yet, somehow, many of our religious brothers and sisters need books and unceasing prayer to stop them from murdering and raping or 'turning gay'

This is strange and sad.

How exactly do you determine that murdering and raping is morally wrong.

You are not answering my questions

shadeyinka:

Please answer this question:
I hope you have a healthy relationship with your parents. Do you Honor and Obey them because of the fear of Punishment or because of your Relationship with them?

I think You have a serious misconception of who a Christian is. A Christian isn't a person trying to avoid "punishment" of hell....NO!

Of course, this question of yours is only hypothetical because Christianity is NOT a Religion

Religion is what man does in order to please the Divine.

Christianity is a RELATIONSHIP with the Creator where God Himself is the relationship Builder!

(Excluding childhood)
The respect I have for my parents came as a result of my good relationship with them, not because of the fear of their Punsishment if I do not, respect borne out of fear is not genuine, because it would not have been there, if fear was not incited.


And I can't remember saying anywhere in this thread, that a Christian is a person trying to avoid punishment of hell. My argument instead, antagonizes this very line of thought.

stop the dictional gymnastics.
Christianity is a religion. A religion according to the inventors of the English language, simply means a way of life. So people who choose to adopt the lifestyle of Christ as theirs, are called Christians, no more no less.


If religion is what man does to please the divine, then attempting to have a relationship with the creator is still trying to please the divine, except you just want to play with words.

JujuSugar:

You're right. But you can't deny that a lot of Christians are motivated by everlasting joy in heaven and frightened by the thought of eternal misery in hell.

Yes it is infact, the very tragedy , of contemporary African Christianity, an uncanny brand of faith conceived and driven by the wrong reasons.

johnydon22:


On what ground is your morality based?

On what ground is yours based?

hahn:


On what ground is yours based?

LOL, it is rude to answer a question with a question... Just standing up for a dear brother... No ban me oh...

hahn:


On what ground is yours based?

So in otherwords your idea of a reply is to repeat the question?

Simple logic suggests you answer the question and then ask yours.

Or you are going all dumb you people accuse theists of on me?

peacesamuel94:

(Excluding childhood)
The respect I have for my parents came as a result of my good relationship with them, not because of the fear of their Punsishment if I do not, respect borne out of fear is not genuine, because it would not have been there, if fear was not incited.


And I can't remember saying anywhere in this thread, that a Christian is a person trying to avoid punishment of hell. My argument instead, antagonizes this very line of thought.

stop the dictional gymnastics.
Christianity is a religion. A religion according to the inventors of the English language, simply means a way of life. So people who choose to adopt the lifestyle of Christ as theirs, are called Christians, no more no less.


If religion is what man does to please the divine, then attempting to have a relationship with the creator is still trying to please the divine, except you just want to play with words.

I guess it is difficult for you to understand that when you have a perfect healthy relationship with your parent, you dont obey rituals to please them. You have the right to enter you parents room and sit on their bed UNLIKE your parents driver who even though lives with them do not have your kind of freedom.

To a Slave, pleasing the Master is a Religion of Do's and Donts!
For a Child, Pleasing the Parent is not a religion of Do's and Donts!

Therein lies the difference between a relationship and a relationship.

I love your Response!

The respect I have for my parents came as a result of my good relationship with them, not because of the fear of their Punsishment if I do not, respect borne out of fear is not genuine, because it would not have been there, if fear was not incited.

This is why Fear of Punishment would not be the reason for your obedience to your Parents.

shadeyinka:

I guess it is difficult for you to understand that when you have a perfect healthy relationship with your parent, you dont obey rituals to please them. You have the right to enter you parents room and sit on their bed UNLIKE your parents driver who even though lives with them do not have your kind of freedom.

To a Slave, pleasing the Master is a Religion of Do's and Donts!
For a Child, Pleasing the Parent is not a religion of Do's and Donts!

Therein lies the difference between a relationship and a relationship.

I love your Response!

This is why Fear of Punishment would not be the reason for your obedience to your Parents.

It is not difficult for me to understand brother. Like I said before, ...that is, if at all you read my replies, Respect driven by fear is not genuine. we are basically making the same point.

shadeyinka:

Christianity is a RELATIONSHIP with the Creator where God Himself is the relationship Builder!

Please what do you mean by relationship with the creator? How do you have a relationship with someone you have never met?

johnydon22:


So in otherwords your idea of a reply is to repeat the question?

Simple logic suggests you answer the question and then ask yours.

Or you are going all dumb you people accuse theists of on me?

Lol

You asked someone else the question not me

I am only curious about your own stance

Why so emotional?

sonmvayina:


LOL, it is rude to answer a question with a question... Just standing up for a dear brother... No ban me oh...

Shuu

I am not the person he asked na

Deicide:

Please what do you mean by relationship with the creator? How do you have a relationship with someone you have never met?

If it is about Physical relationship, I have never seen Him. By the way He's is a Spirit so it means I can only reach Him spiritually.
Just like you now, I don't know if you are tall, short, fat, thin, albino...I can only reach you using another law (the Digital Electronics means). If you are spiritually alive, you may be able to reach Him, otherwise, it would be like trying to communicate with you while not having an internet access.

Don't forget the days of Pen pals. Some close relationships had been made purely through letters.

peacesamuel94:




It is not difficult for me to understand brother. Like I said before, ...that is, if at all you read my replies, Respect driven by fear is not genuine. we are basically making the same point.

Ok!
We are on the same page then!

Unfortunately, some Christians are still driven by the fear of God throwing them into Hell. Imagine a child of God living like a slave (in his own Fathers House)

Shalom

shadeyinka:

If it is about Physical relationship, I have never seen Him.

Ok,

By the way He's is a Spirit so it means I can only reach Him spiritually.

How do you know this if you haven't met physically before?

Just like you now, I don't know if you are tall, short, fat, thin, albino...I can only reach you using another law (the Digital Electronics means).

But you know i logically exist right?

If you are spiritually alive, you may be able to reach Him, otherwise, it would be like trying to communicate with you while not having an internet access.

Don't forget the days of Pen pals. Some close relationships had been made purely through letters.

I don't know how to counter this your spirituality claim cause it is not something that is tangable or something you have proof of you could as well say ”you have to turn to an invisible flying goat to be able to communicate” there is no way any of us could prove this wrong.

If i ask you to prove it you can't. All i can say is that you are deluded, an adult with an imaginary friend

Deicide:

Ok,

How do you know this if you haven't met physically before?

But you know i logically exist right?

I don't know how to counter this your spirituality claim cause it is not something that is tangable or something you have proof of you could as well say ”you have to turn to an invisible flying goat to be able to communicate” there is no way any of us could prove this wrong.

If i ask you to prove it you can't. All i can say is that you are deluded, an adult with an imaginary friend

Your questions I answered even before you asked them.

If My tablet is dead or I don't have internet access, I would be blind to you; but it doesn't mean you don't exist.

You are spiritually comatose! How can you sense the obvious!

God CANNOT be proved using physical laws for God is a Spirit.

Let me ask you a logical question:
A single Bacteria in the Toilet desires to prove the existence of Human beings, card, aeroplanes, skyscrapers to other bacteria in the pool.
If you are to advise this unfortunate bacteria, how should it prove this to others?

If it cannot, does his incapablity negate the existence of humans and the society?

shadeyinka:

Let me ask you a logical question:
A single Bacteria in the Toilet desires to prove the existence of Human beings, card, aeroplanes, skyscrapers to other bacteria in the pool.
If you are to advise this unfortunate bacteria, how should it prove this to others?

If it cannot, does his incapablity negate the existence of humans and the society?

The Bacteria simple shows them! or whatever senses they use to precive things. Bacteria is made up of matter same as me same as the plane etc so the connection is there.

How do you prove that spirituality exist to others? How do you prove the irrational?