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God Is Love ? - Religion - Nairaland

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God Is Love ? by Hermes019: 4:56pm On Feb 18, 2019
I don't know if you have come across the story of the murder of Junko Furuta,so many threads have been created about that and even though I wouldn't advise you to read it because of how graphic and dehumanising it is I would have to pick points from it.
I am an atheist,but I would describe myself as agnostic if God means "Creator of the universe" with nothing else attached to that definition. I know a lot of christians,muslims and other people who believe in God regard atheists as insolent,arrogant,immoral doubters who want to be free to live the way they like,well I wouldn't make a case against that but I want you to see another side to it.
Going back to the Junko Furuta story.I would describe it as one of the worse things to ever happen to anyone much less a teenage girl, I have been living with the awareness that " God does not exist"(going by the conventional definition of God) for 3 years now but even if I were to imagine that God as people describe to be exists I would have nothing but indignation and spite for it. You may think of me as an a$$hole or whatever u think of atheists as, but I can not convince myself that there was someone humane to say the least (God) who could have intervened while she was going through this ordeal but CHOSE not to .There were other persons who were aware of what was happening,maybe not in details but knew she was captured and did not intervene or report to the police due to fear,guess what happened to them,they were punished which means their nonintervention was considered wrong even though they had reasons not to intervene,but I guess God can never be wrong so we can't use the same scale for him. What is even worse is that she(Junku Furuta) must be burning in hell right now(since she is not a christian) and the perpetrators of this crime have all left jail,some didn't even serve up to 10 years and if any of them were to give his life to Christ he would go to heaven when he dies,VERY JUST IF YOU ASK ME

Junku's story is just one of countless cases of very gruesome experiences people have gone through,there are even worse cases,she was someone's daughter, God(if he exists as you say) had the wherewithal to save her but CHOSE not to do so,some christians would say he has his reasons,of course he always does,some even dumber persons would say "God gave us freewill", of course he did,and she used hers nicely and gave her consent when her nipples were chopped off so its not God's fault.

I may be the satanist you think I am since I am an atheist,but I can never serve a being(if such exists)that beheld that event occur and chose not to save her,if not directly(since it loves peek a boo) at least by causing the cops to appear or something like that, I can not even think of such a being as being anywhere close to the moral standard of an average human much less describing it as " All loving".

But do you know the most interesting part,no matter how terrifying and gruelsome you think that murder was,it is nothing compared to what God(particularly the Abrahamic ones) is promising to dish out to people who didn't worship him the way he wants or those who didn't worship or recognise him at all in "the after life",maybe the idea of a punishment or reward in the afterlife is " reasonable" but is the one that the bible and koran tells us of really equatable to the "sins" committed.

Anyways all that doesn't matter at the end of the day God loves you even more than you can imagine so he knows best,innit ?

So folks, no need to argue u can agree with me that God is love



Cc Ihedinobi3,originalkalokalo,MutteyLaff,rekinomtla,
budaatum,
Johnydon22,CAPSLOCKED,XxSabrinaxX,JujuSugar,
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Re: God Is Love ? by ThothHermes: 5:59pm On Feb 18, 2019
Yen yen yen...
You have defined God and now you are fighting your definition.
What if God is emotionless?
What if nonintervention in human affairs is part of the plan?
There are numerous possibilities you have not considered.
Stop shadowboxing!
Re: God Is Love ? by ThothHermes: 5:59pm On Feb 18, 2019
Yen yen yen...
You have defined God and now you are fighting your definition.
What if God is emotionless?
What if nonintervention in human affairs is part of the plan?
There are numerous possibilities you have not considered.
Stop shadowboxing!
Re: God Is Love ? by Nobody: 6:32pm On Feb 18, 2019
God is an ideological defect.
Re: God Is Love ? by Nobody: 6:40pm On Feb 18, 2019
Everything Is Meaningless.
Re: God Is Love ? by Hermes019: 7:09pm On Feb 18, 2019
ThothHermes:
Yen yen yen...

You have defined God and now you are fighting your definition.

What if God is emotionless?

What if nonintervention in human affairs is part of the plan?

There are numerous possibilities you have not considered.

Stop shadowboxing!
What is your point ?
Re: God Is Love ? by JujuSugar(f): 8:01pm On Feb 18, 2019
Hermes019:

What is your point ?
He has no point. He's just running in circles with that line of thought
Re: God Is Love ? by ThothHermes: 8:04pm On Feb 18, 2019
Hermes019:
What is your point ?
First paragraph.
Re: God Is Love ? by Akin1212(m): 8:27pm On Feb 18, 2019
ThothHermes:
Yen yen yen...

You have defined God and now you are fighting your definition.

What if God is emotionless?

What if nonintervention in human affairs is part of the plan?

There are numerous possibilities you have not considered.

Stop shadowboxing!

Please, can you answer if you are a Muslim or a Christian?

Nevertheless, if you're any of the two, then the God you serve is not emotionless, the God you serve is a great intervenor in the affairs of men. And this is documented in whichever holy book you read.
Re: God Is Love ? by Hermes019: 8:41pm On Feb 18, 2019
ThothHermes:
First paragraph.
Alright,noted

Are you a christian ?
Re: God Is Love ? by ThothHermes: 8:45pm On Feb 18, 2019
Hermes019:

Alright,noted

Are you a christian ?
There we go. So you're anti-Christianity eh grin
Re: God Is Love ? by ThothHermes: 8:46pm On Feb 18, 2019
Akin1212:


Please, can you answer if you are a Muslim or a Christian?

Nevertheless, if you're any of the two, then the God you serve is not emotionless, the God you serve is a great intervenor in the affairs of men. And this is documented in whichever holy book you read.
Pulling assumptions from your behind I see
Re: God Is Love ? by Hermes019: 9:01pm On Feb 18, 2019
ThothHermes:
There we go. So you're anti-Christianity eh grin
If you want to sit on the fence and be playing hide and seek then I don't have your time,nobody has time for jokes here

I asked a simple question and I am still awaiting your reply Are you a Christian ?
Re: God Is Love ? by ThothHermes: 9:15pm On Feb 18, 2019
Hermes019:

If you want to sit on the fence and be playing hide and seek then I don't have your time,nobody has time for jokes here

I asked a simple question and I am still awaiting your reply Are you a Christian ?
Which fence?
Why are you eager to put me in a box?
Re: God Is Love ? by Akin1212(m): 9:19pm On Feb 18, 2019
ThothHermes:
Pulling assumptions from your behind I see

Read to understand. The words nevertheless and if were used. I want to believe you know what they mean and how they are applied, yeah?
Re: God Is Love ? by Hermes019: 9:52pm On Feb 18, 2019
ThothHermes:
Which fence?
Why are you eager to put me in a box?
Alright,are you religious?,if so which religion
Re: God Is Love ? by Ihedinobi3: 10:06pm On Feb 18, 2019
@Hermes019, I'm not sure why you tagged me seeing as I am one of those "dumber persons" who explain everything with God's gift of free will.

To answer your post though, this world is evil, so evil things happen in it. As to why God does not intervene, as I always say, it is because of free will. God could stop all evil going on right now without breaking a sweat. But if He does, no one would have a choice but to obey Him. That choice is important because only with it can those who will be God's Eternal Family be separated from those who will not be.

If God prevented those who committed that dastardly act from doing what they did, then not only would their ability to exercise their own free will be taken away but new opportunities for others (like you who are currently affirming your rejection of His Authority as a result) to do the same would not be created effectively denying those others a chance to make a choice about God.

God will in the end heal every damage that all those who trust Him pick up in this life because of the evil of this world. He will also right every wrong and provide perfect justice in every single instance in the end. So, His permission of evil for now is not a problem at all. He can fix the damage that it does. He can also end it at will. Evil is something He permits because of free will.
Re: God Is Love ? by ThothHermes: 10:18pm On Feb 18, 2019
Hermes019:
Alright,are you religious?,if so which religion
No.
Re: God Is Love ? by ThothHermes: 10:21pm On Feb 18, 2019
Akin1212:


Read to understand. The words nevertheless and if were used. I want to believe you know what they mean and how they are applied, yeah?
And if am neither?

The God you fight is in your head. "Man made God in his own image"
This doesn't exclude your kind.
Re: God Is Love ? by Hermes019: 10:28pm On Feb 18, 2019
Ihedinobi3:
@Hermes019, I'm not sure why you tagged me seeing as I am one of those "dumber persons" who explain everything with God's gift of free will.

To answer your post though, this world is evil, so evil things happen in it. As to why God does not intervene, as I always say, it is because of free will. God could stop all evil going on right now without breaking a sweat. But if He does, no one would have a choice but to obey Him. That choice is important because only with it can those who will be God's Eternal Family be separated from those who will not be.

If God prevented those who committed that dastardly act from doing what they did, then not only would their ability to exercise their own free will be taken away but new opportunities for others (like you who are currently affirming your rejection of His Authority as a result) to do the same would not be created effectively denying those others a chance to make a choice about God.

God will in the end heal every damage that all those who trust Him pick up in this life because of the evil of this world. He will also right every wrong and provide perfect justice in every single instance in the end. So, His permission of evil for now is not a problem at all. He can fix the damage that it does. He can also end it at will. Evil is something He permits because of free will.
I plead with you,before any explanation you would give,first of all answer yes or no to this question
Could God can intervened in that situation to save the girl without altering the "free will" of the perpetrators?
Re: God Is Love ? by Hermes019: 10:31pm On Feb 18, 2019
ThothHermes:
No.
Now that you gave the answer what did it remove from you.
I dont understand why people choose to be childish, you are asked a simple question and you choose to run around in circles.

You seem to believe in God though,what is your perception of God ?
Re: God Is Love ? by Nobody: 10:33pm On Feb 18, 2019
Nature is insane but God must be more dangerously nuts.
Re: God Is Love ? by Ihedinobi3: 10:37pm On Feb 18, 2019
Hermes019:
I plead with you,before any explanation you would give,first of all answer yes or no to this question
Could God can intervened in that situation to save the girl without altering the "free will" of the perpetrators?
There is nothing that God cannot do. But the way that God has ordered this Universe, free will is the ability to choose to submit to God and obey Him or to choose instead to rebel against Him and disobey Him. That means that if God prevented the wicked from doing evil when they want to do it, then He has necessarily altered their free will.
Re: God Is Love ? by ThothHermes: 10:40pm On Feb 18, 2019
Hermes019:

Now that you gave the answer what did it remove from you.
I dont understand why people choose to be childish, you are asked a simple question and you choose to run around in circles.
You are the one seeing circles. Can't help you on that score.

You seem to believe in God though,what is your perception of God ?
The ALL, the UNMANIFEST, the UNCAUSED CAUSE.
Re: God Is Love ? by Nobody: 10:43pm On Feb 18, 2019
ThothHermes:
You are the one seeing circles. Can't help you on that score.

The ALL, the UNMANIFEST, the UNCAUSED CAUSE.
You mean the Cause of arrant nonsense/reality ?
Re: God Is Love ? by ThothHermes: 10:53pm On Feb 18, 2019
HellVictorinho:

You mean the Cause of arrant nonsense/reality ?
It's about perception. I'm not sure Einstein or Da Vinci perceived nonsense.
Re: God Is Love ? by Hermes019: 10:54pm On Feb 18, 2019
Even though I pleaded with you to answer yes or no before any explanation, you choose to neglect that
Fine
there is nothing that God cannot do
. I can deduce from this that your answer is YES.
But the way that God has ordered this Universe, free will is the ability to choose to submit to God and obey Him or to choose instead to rebel against Him and disobey Him. That means that if God prevented the wicked from doing evil when they want to do it, then He has necessarily altered their free will.
you people can be so dishonest with your arguments,I don't know what else to say to you,I asked you if there was another way through which God would have saved the girl without interfering with the free will of the perpetrators,you refused to say YES or NO but your response suggests your answer is yes. You knew my next question would be "why didn't he explore that option", so you quickly added that if God intervened he would only have done so by altering their free will,if that is the case then your first answer should have been NO because the first answer you gave and the second one do not correspond at all.
You must take me to be a fool like your scriptures said to think I wouldn't discern the hypocrisy in your post.
What kind of logic is that,your response is so dishonest and hypocritical it makes me sick

P.S please you can help me point out to Ihedinobi3 the dishonesty u see in his response because as they say a person can not see his/her back,he would never admit that his response has some discrepancies, I don't need to argue much on what every logical and honest human being can see
Just to add,Ihedinobi if we are to take what you said @ the bolded and cloured letters literal,then that means if I (" the wicked" ) plans to kill you("the evil I want to do" )and God prevents it he has altered my free will

This is one of the most hypothetical responses I have ever seen

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Re: God Is Love ? by Hermes019: 10:57pm On Feb 18, 2019
ThothHermes:


The ALL, the UNMANIFEST, the UNCAUSED CAUSE.
1) how did you discover his existence
2) what are his features/characteristics/nature
3)how did you discover them
Re: God Is Love ? by Ihedinobi3: 11:19pm On Feb 18, 2019
Hermes019:
Even though I pleaded with you to answer yes or no before any explanation, you choose to neglect that
Fine
. I can deduce from this that your answer is YES.
you people can be so dishonest with your arguments,I don't know what else to say to you,I asked you if there was another way through which God would have saved the girl without interfering with the free will of the perpetrators,you refused to say YES or NO but your response suggests your answer is yes. You knew my next question would be "why didn't he explore that option", so you quickly added that if God intervened he would only have done so by altering their free will,if that is the case then your first answer should have been NO because the first answer you gave and the second one do not correspond at all.
You must take me to be a fool like your scriptures said to think I wouldn't discern the hypocrisy in your post.
What kind of logic is that,your response is so dishonest and hypocritical it makes me sick

P.S please you can help me point out to Ihedinobi3 the dishonesty u see in his response because as they say a person can not see his/her back,he would never admit that his response has some discrepancies, I don't need to argue much on what every logical and honest human being can see
Just to add,Ihedinobi if we are to take what you said @ the bolded and cloured letters literal,then that means if I (" the wicked" ) plans to kill you("the evil I want to do" )and God prevents it he has altered my free will

This is one of the most hypothetical responses I have ever seen
As it is, you asked me to answer this question. I did not volunteer anything to you or call your attention to this matter. The least you could be is courteous. And I have tried to treat you the same way.

As for your demand, it is a common type made of Christians by your kind. And it is very dishonest. Such demands necessarily come because you ask loaded questions which we are forced to answer incorrectly either way. I do not answer loaded questions with yes/no.

Your question essentially demanded two separate things:

1. That I affirm or deny that God is able to do anything at all that He pleases.

2. That I affirm or deny that He is pleased to interfere with the use of free will while still preserving it, that is in other words that He is able to contradict Himself.

My answer is that God is able to do anything He pleases and that He was pleased to create free will to be an ability to make a choice about Him. So, He would not interfere in any way that makes it impossible to exercise free will as He Himself has ordained.

That is my answer. And I have no apologies for it. If it does not suit you, feel free to ask somebody else.

PS: God has prevented people from carrying out violence against others while preserving their right to disobey Him (for example, Pharaoh and the Israelites as the latter left Egypt, Laban and Jacob, Haman and the Jews in exile in the Persian empire). But it would be presumptuous to claim that God would be preserving the free will of the killers in this particular case even if He stopped them. That He can do anything is not in doubt. That He did not do this is obvious. Anything else is arrogant to claim. That is why I gave you the answer I did.
Re: God Is Love ? by Nobody: 11:21pm On Feb 18, 2019
ThothHermes:
It's about perception. I'm not sure Einstein or Da Vinci perceived nonsense.
Einstein wasn't smart enough to understand that Maths and Physics are just subjects.
They're not standards for measuring *Ultimate Reasoning* .
Re: God Is Love ? by Nobody: 11:24pm On Feb 18, 2019
ThothHermes:
It's about perception. I'm not sure Einstein or Da Vinci perceived nonsense.
Da Vinci wasn't smart enough to understand that art is not good enough to describe what is clear.
Re: God Is Love ? by ThothHermes: 11:24pm On Feb 18, 2019
Hermes019:

1) how did you discover his existence
2) what are his features/characteristics/nature
3)how did you discover them

1. Same way I discovered oxygen. Same way I discovered my heartbeat.

2. This would require a PhD thesis and even that I suspect would not be enough. What are your features/characteristics/nature?

3. Refer to answer one.

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