JujuSugar:

As in lol. Bro, I just sidon here dey observe the back and forth since ......

Hermes019:
Seriously Hellvictorinho and Thothhermes,I no even understand wetin una dy talk

Hermes019:
Abeg stop responding to this guy

HellVictorinho:

Nice to meet you,juju or voodoo.
But can you explain your amusement here?

Hermes019:

I'm sorry if I was discourteous but its surprising to see you asking for respect when you didn't regard my plea.
The issue I had with your response was not the Yes or No part,it was you implying(by answering Yes) to the first part that God could have saved the girl without interfering with the free will of the perperators,but then going ahead to claim in the second part that if God intervened he would only do so by interferring with the "free will" of the perpetrators, besides the fact that the two statements are contradictory,your position that God would interfere with their "free will" of he intervened is FALSE !,there are a lot of ways God would have intervened in that situation without having to change anyones decision or will
If you are familiar with the story
1)he could caused rain to fall on the night that the girl was abducted
2)he could have caused the girl to false sick making her unavailable to be abducted
3)he could have created a circumstance that would cause the girls family to live that area
he is supposedly omnipotent so there are infinite ways he could have intervened without altering any ones free will,at least the three examples I gave are some of them.
You also said and I quote
"if God prevented the wicked from doing evil when they want to do it, then He has necessarily altered their free will."
And then I asked you,if what you said is to be taken literal then that means that if God prevents the wicked(me in this instance) from doing evil(chopping your head off) when they want to do it (on your birthday eve),then he has necessarily altered their free will,and since God doesn't alter free will I can go ahead and chop ur head off ba ?
Is this how u want us to roll ?

Akin1212:


On a serious note, you people are really confused!

So God gave the oppressors and murderers of the girl free will, huh? So God will uphold the freewill of oppressors over saving the oppressed? So God will suppress his own power and ability to help the oppressed because he wants the free will of the oppressors to be used?

Why do you people pray to God then to save you from your enemies? You want God to suppress the free will of your enemies now so that you can be relieved? You want God to make use of his own power in your case and stop the free will of your enemies from being used?

But when this God shows you people that he doesn't exist, you start looking for excuses and lies to cover up for the non existent God. So much confusion. SMH

JujuSugar:
Only a third party will understand the amusement.....

JujuSugar:

Only a third party will understand the amusement.....

Hermes019:
I don't know if you have come across the story of the murder of Junko Furuta,so many threads have been created about that and even though I wouldn't advise you to read it because of how graphic and dehumanising it is I would have to pick points from it.
I am an atheist,but I would describe myself as agnostic if God means "Creator of the universe" with nothing else attached to that definition. I know a lot of christians,muslims and other people who believe in God regard atheists as insolent,arrogant,immoral doubters who want to be free to live the way they like,well I wouldn't make a case against that but I want you to see another side to it.
Going back to the Junko Furuta story.I would describe it as one of the worse things to ever happen to anyone much less a teenage girl, I have been living with the awareness that " God does not exist"(going by the conventional definition of God) for 3 years now but even if I were to imagine that God as people describe to be exists I would have nothing but indignation and spite for it. You may think of me as an a$$hole or whatever u think of atheists as, but I can not convince myself that there was someone humane to say the least (God) who could have intervened while she was going through this ordeal but CHOSE not to .There were other persons who were aware of what was happening,maybe not in details but knew she was captured and did not intervene or report to the police due to fear,guess what happened to them,they were punished which means their nonintervention was considered wrong even though they had reasons not to intervene,but I guess God can never be wrong so we can't use the same scale for him. What is even worse is that she(Junku Furuta) must be burning in hell right now(since she is not a christian) and the perpetrators of this crime have all left jail,some didn't even serve up to 10 years and if any of them were to give his life to Christ he would go to heaven when he dies,VERY JUST IF YOU ASK ME

Junku's story is just one of countless cases of very gruesome experiences people have gone through,there are even worse cases,she was someone's daughter, God(if he exists as you say) had the wherewithal to save her but CHOSE not to do so,some christians would say he has his reasons,of course he always does,some even dumber persons would say "God gave us freewill", of course he did,and she used hers nicely and gave her consent when her nipples were chopped off so its not God's fault.

I may be the satanist you think I am since I am an atheist,but I can never serve a being(if such exists)that beheld that event occur and chose not to save her,if not directly(since it loves peek a boo) at least by causing the cops to appear or something like that, I can not even think of such a being as being anywhere close to the moral standard of an average human much less describing it as " All loving".

Cc Ihedinobi3,originalkalokalo,MutteyLaff,rekinomtla,
budaatum,
Johnydon22,CAPSLOCKED,XxSabrinaxX,JujuSugar,
Vaxx
Frank317

Hermes019:
I don't know if you have come across the story of the murder of Junko Furuta,so many threads have been created about that and even though I wouldn't advise you to read it because of how graphic and dehumanising it is I would have to pick points from it.
I am an atheist,but I would describe myself as agnostic if God means "Creator of the universe" with nothing else attached to that definition. I know a lot of christians,muslims and other people who believe in God regard atheists as insolent,arrogant,immoral doubters who want to be free to live the way they like,well I wouldn't make a case against that but I want you to see another side to it.
Going back to the Junko Furuta story.I would describe it as one of the worse things to ever happen to anyone much less a teenage girl, I have been living with the awareness that " God does not exist"(going by the conventional definition of God) for 3 years now but even if I were to imagine that God as people describe to be exists I would have nothing but indignation and spite for it. You may think of me as an a$$hole or whatever u think of atheists as, but I can not convince myself that there was someone humane to say the least (God) who could have intervened while she was going through this ordeal but CHOSE not to .There were other persons who were aware of what was happening,maybe not in details but knew she was captured and did not intervene or report to the police due to fear,guess what happened to them,they were punished which means their nonintervention was considered wrong even though they had reasons not to intervene,but I guess God can never be wrong so we can't use the same scale for him. What is even worse is that she(Junku Furuta) must be burning in hell right now(since she is not a christian) and the perpetrators of this crime have all left jail,some didn't even serve up to 10 years and if any of them were to give his life to Christ he would go to heaven when he dies,VERY JUST IF YOU ASK ME

Junku's story is just one of countless cases of very gruesome experiences people have gone through,there are even worse cases,she was someone's daughter, God(if he exists as you say) had the wherewithal to save her but CHOSE not to do so,some christians would say he has his reasons,of course he always does,some even dumber persons would say "God gave us freewill", of course he did,and she used hers nicely and gave her consent when her nipples were chopped off so its not God's fault.

I may be the satanist you think I am since I am an atheist,but I can never serve a being(if such exists)that beheld that event occur and chose not to save her,if not directly(since it loves peek a boo) at least by causing the cops to appear or something like that, I can not even think of such a being as being anywhere close to the moral standard of an average human much less describing it as " All loving".

But do you know the most interesting part,no matter how terrifying and gruelsome you think that murder was,it is nothing compared to what God(particularly the Abrahamic ones) is promising to dish out to people who didn't worship him the way he wants or those who didn't worship or recognise him at all in "the after life",maybe the idea of a punishment or reward in the afterlife is " reasonable" but is the one that the bible and koran tells us of really equatable to the "sins" committed.

Anyways all that doesn't matter at the end of the day God loves you even more than you can imagine so he knows best,innit ?

So folks, no need to argue u can agree with me that God is love



Cc Ihedinobi3,originalkalokalo,MutteyLaff,rekinomtla,
budaatum,
Johnydon22,CAPSLOCKED,XxSabrinaxX,JujuSugar,
Vaxx
Frank317,Seun

Hermes019:
I plead with you,before any explanation you would give,first of all answer yes or no to this question
Could God can intervened in that situation to save the girl without altering the "free will" of the perpetrators?

bloodofthelamb:


Though this was not for me but nonetheless I have a right to respond because the nature and goodness of my Father is being lampooned. God cannot intervene without man's invitation and corporation by faith. The reason being that He has given the Earth to man. God said, "let them have dominion and rule over the Earth." I believe got sought for man to stand in the gap for the girl but found none. Good is good and He is indeed love!

CAPSLOCKED:


IF YOU'VE NOT READ IT, HERE'S HER STORY.

Junko Furuta was a 16 year old Japanese girl who underwent 44 days of rape and torture before dying in the hands of her captors on November 22, 1989. Known throughout Japan as concrete-encased high school girl, the case of Junko Furuta drew nationwide attention owing to sheer brutality the girl had to endure before death found her.


Junko Furuta attended a high school in Misato, in Saitama Prefecture, Japan. She was a good looking, active teenager who enjoyed a lot of attention and that made some people jealous. She did not smoke, did not drink alcohol and did not do drugs which was seen as very uncool in the eyes of more gangster like teens. One of them – Hiroshi Miyano had a crush on her but not looking for a relationship, Junko Furuta turned him down. Hiroshi Miyano was the bully in the school and being involved with the new generations of the Yakuza, nobody dared to oppose him. And Junko Furuta had the nerve to say “No”…
On November 25, 1988 she was kidnapped by 4 teenage boys – one of them being Hiroshi Miyano. The boys took Junko Furuta to the house owned by the parents of one of the kidnappers in the Ayase district of Adachi, Tokyo.

While in captivity, the kidnapers forced Junko Furuta to call her parents and tell them that she’d run away and is going to stay with a friend, but insist that she’s not in danger. Not able to realize what was coming and too scared to remain non-compliant, Junko did exactly as she was told, ultimately forestalling a manhunt which would have otherwise followed her disappearance.
Parents of Nobuharu Minato in whose house Junko Furuta was kept paid their son a visit on a few occasions but under a threat of increased violence against her, Junko was requested to pretend that she was a girlfriend of one of the boys. However even when it became apparent that she was a captive in the house, the parents did nothing for fear of retaliation from Hiroshi Miyano who was known to have the Yakuza connections.

During the course of 44 days following her kidnapping, Junko Furuta was forced to withstand unspeakable suffering. What she went through before murder included:
-Was humiliated by being kept naked most of the time
-Was raped every day in both vagina and anus. More than 100 men are believed to have raped her – the captor with Yakuza connections is said to have invited other Yakuza members to have a go at a 16 year old. She’s estimated to have gone through about 500 rapes. At one point she was raped by 12 different men in one day.
Endured physical beatings included hits with golf clubs and bashing of face against cement floor.
The 100 men who are believed to have raped her had also reportedly enjoyed urinating on the girl
Frequently, in order to turn her rapists on, she was forced to masturbate in front of them and/or their guests.
Had various objects forced into her vagina and anus, including a bottle, an iron bar, scissors, roasting needles, grilled chicker skewers, etc.
Was provided with only limited supply or food or water.
Was forced to eat live cockroaches and drink her own urine.
Had fireworks forced up her ass and set them off, causing serious burns.
Had her left nipple ripped off with pliers.
Had dumbbells dropped on her stomach while laid on the floor with hands and feet tied up – this resulted in loss of bowel control
Was hanged from the ceiling and used as boxing bag.
Was kept in a freezer for several hours
Had eye lids burned with hot wax and lighters
Had breasts pierced with sewing needles
Had her vagina and clitoris burnt with cigarettes and lighters.
Had hot, lit on bulb inserted into her vagina and rubbed until it exploded inside
While she was only one quarter through her ordeal, owing to ongoing beatings, Junko Furuta was unable to breathe through her nose due to accumulation of blood in her cavities. Her traumatized internal organs refused to accept food and water so when she tried to drink, she instantly vomited, which not only kept her more dehydrated, it also agitated the perpetrators who punished her with more beating for soiling the carpet.

At one point, when the attackers were resting after drinking, she tried to call the police but was caught and punished by having her feet set on fire with burning lighter fluid. Large bottle the perpetrators forced up her anus caused internal injuries and ugly bleeding..
Severe leg burns and badly bruised muscles left her unable to walk after 20 days of her ordeal. She wasn’t able to handle anything with her hands anymore because her bones were smashed with weights and her fingernails cracked. Since it was winter, she was also forced to sleep on a balcony, exposed to cold temperatures.


After 30 days, Junko Furuta was unable to urinate properly due to damage to internal organs and to vulva from insertion of foreign object and burns from cigarettes and lighters. Her hands and feet were damaged so badly, it took her over an hour to crawl downstairs to the bathroom. Her eardrums were also damaged and brain size was reduced.


During the course of 44 days when she was repeatedly tortured, beaten and raped, Junko Furuta begged her captors several times to just kill her and be done with it. They didn’t grant her that favor. Instead, on January 4, 1989, they challenged her to a game of Mahjong solitaire. She won and that pissed the boys off so they treated her to a beating with an iron barbell and fire by setting her legs, arms, face and stomach alight after pouring lighter fluid on them. Being already badly beaten, dehydrated and malnutritioned, Junko Furuta fell into a shock and died the following day.

The murderers stuffed the dead girl’s body in a 55-gallon drum filled with concrete and disposed of it in Koto, Tokyo.

The names of four main captors who kidnapped, tortured, raped and murdered Junko Furuta were withheld by the Japanese court because they were juveniles, however the journalists from the Shūkan Bunshun magazine dug them out and publish them stating that after what they did to Junko Furuta, they don’t deserve anyone to uphold their human rights:
Hiroshi Miyano – 18 year old at the time of the crime. Changed his name to Hiroshi Yokoyama
Jō Ogura – 18 year old at the time of the crime. Changed his name to Jō Kamisaku (神作譲)
Shinji Minato (– 16 year old at the time of the crime, some sources refer to him as Nobuharu Minato
Yasushi Watanabe – 17 year old at the time of the crime


All four perpetrators were caught and tried. However because they were all under-aged when the crime was committed, they were to be tried as juveniles, but eventually faced sentences of adults, except that the court withheld their identities. Still, given the severity of their crimes, the sentences they were handed out were rather low. By now, each of them is already out of jail. Three of the boys served less than 8 years, the leader was originally sentenced to 17 years in prison, but after his appeal, instead of lowering his sentence, judge Ryūji Yanase bumped his sentence to 20 years. The same judge also increased the sentenced for two bore boys who appealed. One didn’t so his sentence stayed as was. Either way, they’re all in their late 30′s and all out of jail.

LordReed:


A sad disgusting tale that evokes a lot of emotions including a feeling of wanting to throw up. According to the religious, their gods look upon such things day in, day out and are not moved to intervene in any meaningful way except to maybe commit suicide or give a prophet a trip to the moon. If one tale can move humans to disgust, why is a being able to see a million such tales every single day unmoved?

Love must have a strange meaning to this supposed god.

kkins25:

Meanwhile God, jesus and the holy spirit were enjoying a game of chess.cant believe I dropped tears to this write up. My atheism fuel tank is full

LordReed:


A sad disgusting tale that evokes a lot of emotions including a feeling of wanting to throw up. According to the religious, their gods look upon such things day in, day out and are not moved to intervene in any meaningful way except to maybe commit suicide or give a prophet a trip to the moon. If one tale can move humans to disgust, why is a being able to see a million such tales every single day unmoved?

Love must have a strange meaning to this supposed god.

The Heavens belong to the Lord, while the Earth has he given to the sons of men. God cannot intervene in matters on Earth without man's invitation and comparation by faith. God is always looking for men to stand in the gap for his will to be done here on Earth.

bloodofthelamb:


Though this was not for me but nonetheless I have a right to respond because the nature and goodness of my Father is being lampooned. God cannot intervene without man's invitation and corporation by faith. The reason being that He has given the Earth to man. God said, "let them have dominion and rule over the Earth." I believe got sought for man to stand in the gap for the girl but found none. Good is good and He is indeed love!

Ihedinobi3:

First, I was not asking for respect from you. Not only do I not particularly desire it, I also am more than content with civility and courtesy. When you have genuine cause to attack me, by all means, do so if you want.

Second, as I explained, my answer was deliberately to remove the possibility of your ascribing contradictions to me. You have gone right ahead to do so. Like I said, that was expected since your question was a loaded one. You wanted to get me to commit to saying either that God could have saved that girl without violating the free will of her attackers and just chose not to or that He couldn't and is thus not truly God. Both answers are wrong or, at least, not completely right. That was why I answered you the way I did.

Third, there is no doubt that our free will is not absolute in the sense that we can do whatever we want and God will not interfere. That is not what free will means. Only God is completely free in His Will so that He does entirely as He pleases. Creatures, on the other hand, are only free to choose between the options that He sets before them through their circumstances and opportunities.

Fourth, for this reason, whenever God permits something like this one to go all the way through, it is presumptuous to claim or insist that He could have done things differently. He is God and thus can do whatever He pleases. He could very well have done things differently if He pleased. We know that God is pleased for His creatures to make a choice. Therefore, He creates or sanctions opportunities for them to do so. So, when things like this happen, the explanation that the Bible gives is that God allows us to choose.

Fifth, no situation is isolated. God has One Eternal Plan of which all events in the world today are a part. That means that everything you see was ordained to happen in connection with everything else that has happened or will happen in creature history. So, unless you actually know what God knows, every time you insist that one part of God's Plan should have been different, you are speaking from a position of no qualification at all. Every free will decision is connected to every other. We all choose what we choose in the context of other choices made before us. And our own choices provide context for other people's moral decisions.

Sixth, regarding your question at the end, today, many Christians are getting killed for their beliefs and God lets it happen. In fact, it would not happen at all unless He had ordained it before Creation. Even further, the Great Tribulation is a three-and-a-half-year period of non-stop, global persecution of Christians worse than this world has ever seen. God planned it before the world began and it is very close now. I will very probably experience it myself. If I do, I may or may not survive it. That is, I may be killed for my faith. Every Christian has always had the possibility of suffering in some extreme degree for their faith hanging over them and I cannot honestly say that we believers haven't all experienced greater difficulty in life generally than unbelievers. So, obviously, God has always been and will always be upholding the free will of those who attack and kill Christians (among which victims I may very well be counted during the Great Tribulation) whenever they have done and whenever they do so.

Hermes019:

There are so many interesting things in this post but I don't want to leave the topic so the conclusion of what u have said is this

YHWH is omnipotent and had everything it takes to save the girl but didn't because he CHOSE not too
The difference between you and I is very simple,even if there is none u could think of you would always believe that YWHW had a justifiable reason for allowing that to happen but I don't think so.I feel that since he is supposedly omnipotent he can always do what he wants to do without causing pains to people.

I would love to ask you this question and I wish you would be honest with your reply,again I also plead that you give me a "Yes" or "No" answer first before going ahead to give your explanation

Still on the story I shared,Assuming this ordeal is about to repeat itself and this time your daughter would be the victim,unfortunately you had an accident and you are in coma so you can't intervene in the real life and Yahweh appears to you and asks you to make a choice(again remember this is an assumption ) ,if you ask him to intervene he would prevent it from happening,but if you ask God to do things the way he wants (ie not interferring with "free will as you said),then that means this same ordeal that Junko Furuta faced would certainly happen to your daughter,what would your response be ?
WOULD YOU ASK HIM TO INTERVENE ?



P.S Please,please and please don't make this your response a twisted one,I can't force you but please answer yes or no first before giving your explanation

Hermes019:

There are so many interesting things in this post but I don't want to leave the topic so the conclusion of what u have said is this

YHWH is omnipotent and had everything it takes to save the girl but didn't because he CHOSE not too
The difference between you and I is very simple,even if there is none u could think of you would always believe that YWHW had a justifiable reason for allowing that to happen but I don't think so.I feel that since he is supposedly omnipotent he can always do what he wants to do without causing pains to people.

I would love to ask you this question and I wish you would be honest with your reply,again I also plead that you give me a "Yes" or "No" answer first before going ahead to give your explanation

Still on the story I shared,Assuming this ordeal is about to repeat itself and this time your daughter would be the victim,unfortunately you had an accident and you are in coma so you can't intervene in the real life and Yahweh appears to you and asks you to make a choice(again remember this is an assumption ) ,if you ask him to intervene he would prevent it from happening,but if you ask God to do things the way he wants (ie not interferring with "free will as you said),then that means this same ordeal that Junko Furuta faced would certainly happen to your daughter,what would your response be ?
WOULD YOU ASK HIM TO INTERVENE ?



P.S Please,please and please don't make this your response a twisted one,I can't force you but please answer yes or no first before giving your explanation

Hermes019:
I don't know if you have come across the story of the murder of Junko Furuta,so many threads have been created about that and even though I wouldn't advise you to read it because of how graphic and dehumanising it is I would have to pick points from it.
I am an atheist,but I would describe myself as agnostic if God means "Creator of the universe" with nothing else attached to that definition. I know a lot of christians,muslims and other people who believe in God regard atheists as insolent,arrogant,immoral doubters who want to be free to live the way they like,well I wouldn't make a case against that but I want you to see another side to it.
Going back to the Junko Furuta story.I would describe it as one of the worse things to ever happen to anyone much less a teenage girl, I have been living with the awareness that " God does not exist"(going by the conventional definition of God) for 3 years now but even if I were to imagine that God as people describe to be exists I would have nothing but indignation and spite for it. You may think of me as an a$$hole or whatever u think of atheists as, but I can not convince myself that there was someone humane to say the least (God) who could have intervened while she was going through this ordeal but CHOSE not to .There were other persons who were aware of what was happening,maybe not in details but knew she was captured and did not intervene or report to the police due to fear,guess what happened to them,they were punished which means their nonintervention was considered wrong even though they had reasons not to intervene,but I guess God can never be wrong so we can't use the same scale for him. What is even worse is that she(Junku Furuta) must be burning in hell right now(since she is not a christian) and the perpetrators of this crime have all left jail,some didn't even serve up to 10 years and if any of them were to give his life to Christ he would go to heaven when he dies,VERY JUST IF YOU ASK ME

Junku's story is just one of countless cases of very gruesome experiences people have gone through,there are even worse cases,she was someone's daughter, God(if he exists as you say) had the wherewithal to save her but CHOSE not to do so,some christians would say he has his reasons,of course he always does,some even dumber persons would say "God gave us freewill", of course he did,and she used hers nicely and gave her consent when her nipples were chopped off so its not God's fault.

I may be the satanist you think I am since I am an atheist,but I can never serve a being(if such exists)that beheld that event occur and chose not to save her,if not directly(since it loves peek a boo) at least by causing the cops to appear or something like that, I can not even think of such a being as being anywhere close to the moral standard of an average human much less describing it as " All loving".

But do you know the most interesting part,no matter how terrifying and gruelsome you think that murder was,it is nothing compared to what God(particularly the Abrahamic ones) is promising to dish out to people who didn't worship him the way he wants or those who didn't worship or recognise him at all in "the after life",maybe the idea of a punishment or reward in the afterlife is " reasonable" but is the one that the bible and koran tells us of really equatable to the "sins" committed.

Anyways all that doesn't matter at the end of the day God loves you even more than you can imagine so he knows best,innit ?

So folks, no need to argue u can agree with me that God is love



Cc Ihedinobi3,originalkalokalo,MutteyLaff,rekinomtla,
budaatum,
Johnydon22,CAPSLOCKED,XxSabrinaxX,JujuSugar,
Vaxx
Frank317,Seun

Hermes019:

I have a problem with the bolded,the last time I checked,Yahweh was omnipotent so do you mean by saying he cannot

Hermes019:



If that be the case why hasn't Leah sharibu been released, haven't Christians been praying ?

Akin1212:


This was also not for me, but I feel the need to lampoon your Father further. Your Father could send his son to come and die for the sins of the men even though he was not asked to do so. Your father could send series of messages to men in order to intervene in the affairs of men. But all those were written in your holy book. Yet you're here claiming he doesn't intervene.

But when it comes to real life issues, your Father will rather look on and enjoy the show. You people are full of lies and deceits.

Who do you think we are, kids?

The cognitive dissonance going on with you people is second to none. And it's cool because gradually you people will start seeing the craps you're all made of, including your nonexistent father.

In your fictional books he will not intervene, that's right, that's exactly why he doesn't intervene in real life events besides the fact that he doesn't exist. And that's why I didn't even respond to the mention of that guy who commented something similar. It's a waste of time.

bloodofthelamb:


God is not moved by tears and emotions. He is moved by His word. In a law court you do not win a case by tears and emotions, you win by knowing what the law states.

We are more than an overcome by knowing what the word of God says about us in Christ. Keep your emotions in check!

Ihedinobi3:

First, I don't know why but you are once again insisting on misrepresenting what I said. It might be a mistake or it might be deliberate.

If you want to argue that God could save the girl and just whimsically decided not to, then by all means, do so. But I would appreciate it if you didn't attribute that argument to me again. It is not what I have said.

Let me repeat my position: God is able to do anything He pleases. He has no problem doing anything at all He wants to do. There is nothing that can stop Him from doing it. But what God is pleased to do according to the Bible is to give His Moral Creatures a choice to willingly submit to Him or to rebel against Him. So, He provides each of them with both the ability and opportunity to do so. That is why evil exists and occurs when and how it does. This free will that He has given them is not absolute, however. God can choose to deny certain opportunities or to provide them. Whenever He provides them, it is to allow for free will choices to be made. Whenever He denies them, it is for the same reason. Therefore, when events like the one your thread is about happen, it is always because of free will.

In other words, my answer has remained that God let what happened happen so that each player there could make a free choice about Him and so that all of those who hear about that story or were connected to it somehow would also have an opportunity to make such a choice.

I understand if you dislike that answer. Feel free to argue against it or reject it as you please. But please, don't make something up and attribute it to me again. It will only show how willing you are to be dishonest in order to sell a pet point of view.

Second, as I said before, if you ask an honest question, I will give you an honest answer. If you ask a dishonest one like you did before, I will give you an honest one that you may not like.

As to your question, what the Bible teaches is that we should pray for deliverance out of all troubles AND still submit to His Will in each of them. That is what I try to do everyday. I would pray that God would deliver my daughter out of the hands of evil men. But I hope too that I would trust Him to do exactly what pleases Him and blesses us in the matter.

Assuming this ordeal is about to repeat itself and this time your daughter would be the victim,unfortunately you had an accident and you are in coma so you can't intervene in the real life and Yahweh appears to you and asks you to make a choice(again remember this is an assumption ) ,if you ask him to intervene he would prevent it from happening,but if you ask God to do things the way he wants (ie not interferring with "free will as you said),then that means this same ordeal that Junko Furuta faced would certainly happen to your daughter,what would your response be ?
WOULD YOU ASK HIM TO INTERVENE ?

I would pray that God would deliver my daughter out of the hands of evil men. But I hope too that I would trust Him to do exactly what pleases Him and blesses us in the matter.

Akin1212:


You just said God is PITILESS.

God is not moved by tears and emotions, yet Jesus wept when he realized that Lazarus had been dead for 3 days.

God is not moved by emotions and tears, yet in Isaiah 63 vs 9 it was written clearly that God was moved by the affliction of people.

Isaiah 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

Even in James 5 vs 11, another pitiful nature of your God was revealed

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

And Psalms 116 vs 6 gave people the assurance that this God will help the helpless.

Psalms 116:6 The Lord protects the helpless;     when I was in danger, he saved me.

I know it's very hard to be a Christian and not lie for God, the moment you stop lying for God is the moment you're woke.

You've lost what makes you human for this nonexistent God and that's why you will keep your emotions in check when a 16 year old helpless girl was abducted and raped and then killed. God didn't intervene, because he does not exist. An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipresent God would intervene. But here you are, once again lying for God. Keep it up.

bloodofthelamb:


I never said that my God is pitiless, you said so. What I said is that God cannot be moved by our tears and emotion to go against his layed down word and principle. Hosea 4:6 My people perish because they lack knowledge.

The children of Isrealites where in captivity in Babylon way beyond the time God has promised them deliverance. It was prophet Daniel while studying, saw that the time for deliverance has come and past. He turned to God with his(God's) word in prayer and supplication. The scripture let us to know that God answered and moved on their behalf.

I believe, if Daniel had not found out the truth that they suppose not to remain in captivity more than seventy years, they would have died in captivity while they ought to be free due to ignorance.

God loves us and wants us to come to know how things truly work so that we can reign in life. He has raised up teachers to instruct us in way of faith. But our ultimate teacher is the Holy Spirit within us. He shows us all that has been freely given to us in Christ.

Hermes019:

MODIFIED
If you or anybody asks me any question and requests that I answer Yes or No,I would do so no matter how "dishonest" the question is.
I asked you to answer Yes or No before giving your explanation but its obvious to me that you think very lowly of me.

The worst part is that you did not even answer the question I asked,you went ahead to create a different question for yourself and gave the answer suitable to you and that was what I was trying to avoid she. I said you should first answer Yes or No but you would say that I asked a "dishonest" question while you give an honest answer(I wonder what the hell that means),and what if I am asking a crafty question to implicate you,we have different opinions and my aim is to expose the weakness in yours through my questions,what is wrong with that
Meanwhile this is the question I asked


And this is the reply you gave


I don't know who is being dishonest here,just like the first question I asked you gave two responses,each contradicting and eliminating the problems that both poses

Your first part says
" I would pray that God would deliver my daughter......"

Although not expressly stated,this implies a YES

the second part
"But I hope too that I would trust him to do exactly what pleases him....... "
This suggests a NO


Dude its not compulsory to answer my question lif you don't want to,but if you do please do well to answer the particular question I asked and if possible answer it the way I requested,it is not like I'm forcing you but I'm trying to make the argument as straight forward and direct as possible . If you have observed the way questions are asked by the lawyer during a trial you would notice that the questions are straightforward and demand straightforward answers,this is not a court room of course but that is the best way to make your arguments clear and accurate that is what I'm trying to achieve but you are undermining my efforts and intentions and its tiring