IAmSabrina:

Dantedasz has given hints to the answer already. The lady's performance wasn't convincing in any way. I mean, listen to her bark. She couldn't even bark like a dog! Do i really have to spell it out for you, Shadeyinka? It doesn't take a genius to see this fuckery.....

Oh yes. Also, TB Joshua is a known fraud

This isn't news to anyone


The real question should be why is it REAL?

I ask again, is this a deliberate waste of my time?

If it was a Hollywood script, the backing like a dog would have been convincing: why, they would have passed it through vocal synthesizers to make it sound like a dog. Your idea is that a demon would bypass her vocal chords to bark like a dog!

Hollywood has successfully biased you so that the real thing doesn't match up with your passived reality.

Your case reminded me about my secondary school days when some of us went to join the kungfu club to be able to fly in the air like Bruce Lee. No Marshall art is like presented by Hollywood.

I ask again;
1. how much do you think Jim Iyke was paid?
2. Have you ever witnessed a real live deliverance session?

shadeyinka:

How much do you think Jim Iyke was paid


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-7dMRbDHbA

I may interest you to know that Jim Iyke lost his mum: the main reason why he went to scoan. He doesn't even subscribe to scoan or what he claimed they did to him

U don't read the news often do u? Even Jim Iyke has come out to rail against how they exploited him there. Play any video of any TB Joshua miracle and I will show u it's fake

shadeyinka:

Sorry for you.

IAmSabrina is far more intelligent than most of you guys who claim to be atheist. I respect her soundness.

Don't flatter yourself Shadeyinka. U wouldn't even recognise intelligence if it bit u on the ass.

NPComplete:


Don't flatter yourself Shadeyinka. U wouldn't even recognise intelligence if it bit u on the ass.

Maybe we can compare both of you and see....

You need not be angry. I didn't mention names did I?

shadeyinka:

Maybe we can compare both of you and see....

You need not be angry. I didn't mention names did I?

U said "atheists". And since I am not one of them I have no reason to be angry. I was just letting u know u lack the mental competence to come to that judgment accurately. Don't be angry at me for pointing out that fact.

NPComplete:


U don't read the news often do u? Even Jim Iyke has come out to rail against how they exploited him there. Play any video of any TB Joshua miracle and I will show u it's fake

You don't read well do you?

shadeyinka:

How much do you think Jim Iyke was paid


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-7dMRbDHbA

It may interest you to know that Jim Iyke lost his mum: the main reason why he went to scoan. He doesn't even subscribe to scoan or what he claimed they did to him

Do you know the implication of this?
Jim Iyke didn't act any script. He didn't even know what was happening till he was delivered.

Find another excuse!

shadeyinka:

How much do you think Jim Iyke was paid


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-7dMRbDHbA

I may interest you to know that Jim Iyke lost his mum: the main reason why he went to scoan. He doesn't even subscribe to scoan or what he claimed they did to him

Didn't Jim later reveal that he was used by TB Josh in the process?

Ever heard of hypnotic induction?

NPComplete:


U said "atheists". And since I am not one of them I have no reason to be angry. I was just letting u know u lack the mental competence to come to that judgment accurately. Don't be angry at me for pointing out that fact.

Atheist isn't your name is it?
Well since you don't know me, I'll let that slide

shadeyinka:


You don't read well do you?



Do you know the implication of this?
Jim Iyke didn't act any script. He didn't even know what was happening till he was delivered.

Find another excuse!

Lol. Jim Iyke himself has come out to call out what he said was some shady tactics that they used on him. And u are here talking stories. Lol

An actor with a shady history of doing anything for fame and money went on emmanueltv to act action film then came back years later saying he regretted the whole episode. But u Shadeyinka want me to believe u over the guy himself. Hahahaha

IAmSabrina:

Didn't Jim later reveal that he was used by TB Josh in the process?

Ever heard of hypnotic induction?

Do you know anything about hypnotism?
1. For to hypnotize a person, he has to be prepped.
2. You can't Hypnotize an unwilling person
3. Hypnotism works on suggestions: who suggested those behaviours to Jim Iyke?

So, how do you think Jim Iyke was hypnotized?

shadeyinka:

If it was a Hollywood script, the backing like a dog would have been convincing: why, they would have passed it through vocal synthesizers to make it sound like a dog. Your idea is that a demon would bypass her vocal chords to bark like a dog!

Hollywood has successfully biased you so that the real thing doesn't match up with your passived reality.

Your case reminded me about my secondary school days when some of us went to join the kungfu club to be able to fly in the air like Bruce Lee. No Marshall art is like presented by Hollywood.

I ask again;
1. how much do you think Jim Iyke was paid?
2. Have you ever witnessed a real live deliverance session?

@bold Really?!

Maybe you forgot Shadeyinka but the title of the video is "DEMON turns LADY into DOG"!

If i am to be convinced this is real, am i not supposed to expect her to behave like a dog? What do you understand by demon possession? For Odin's sake!

1. how much do you think Jim Iyke was paid?

Jim Iyke wasn't paid. He was abused

2. Have you ever witnessed a real live deliverance session?

Yes i have "witnessed a real live deliverance session"

NPComplete:


Lol. Jim Iyke himself has come out to call out what he said was some shady tactics that they used on him. And u are here talking stories. Lol

An actor with a shady history of doing anything for fame and money went on emmanueltv to act action film then came back years later saying he regretted the whole episode. But u Shadeyinka want me to believe u over the guy himself. Hahahaha

Sorry point of correction.
Maybe you didn't follow the news

Jim Iyke was thoroughly embarrassed by his actions made worse by people airing it on you tube. Most of the recordings of his displeasure was within a few weeks after.

Like he said: he took his mum to scoan for healing
And you are saying he was doing a publicity stunt

This same mum later died and you say it is acting!?

Find a better excuse!

IAmSabrina:

Didn't Jim later reveal that he was used by TB Josh in the process?

Ever heard of hypnotic ind
uction?

I don't even believe Jim was hypnotised. The dodgy self-servicer collected a very huge amount of money from the equally dodgy TB Joshua to act that script. So years after frittering away the largesse he now came back to his senses and realised that the whole episode was damaging to his brand so he is now trying to walk it back.

Wetin dey happen for here

shadeyinka:

Sorry point of correction.
Maybe you didn't follow the news

Jim Iyke was thoroughly embarrassed by his actions made worse by people airing it on you tube. Most of the recordings of his displeasure was within a few weeks after.

Like he said: he took his mum to scoan for healing
And you are saying he was doing a publicity stunt

This same mum later died and you say it is acting!?

Find a better excuse!

It is a publicity stunt for SCOAN. Those wankers are fake.

The mum is the reason why he was willing to do the stunt. That and the money SCOAN must have paid him. That guy is shady. And TB Joshua is worse. The only redeeming quality Joshua has is his philanthropy.

IAmSabrina:

@bold Really?!

Maybe you forgot Shadeyinka but the title of the video is "DEMON turns LADY into DOG"!

If i am to be convinced this is real, am i not supposed to expect her to behave like a dog? What do you understand by demon possession? For Odin's sake!


Jim Iyke wasn't paid. He was abused


Yes i have "witnessed a real live deliverance session"

Forget about the title for anyone could have put any title. After all, there was no title before the lady started manifesting.

I agree with you unlike NPComplete who feel that Jim Iyke was paid to act.

Let's agree that he was abused. And I can relate to that because his consent wasn't sought before they "touched" him knowing that as a celebrity, he wouldn't appreciate manifesting like a crazy man.

So, what did they do to Jim Iyke that made him loose his senses. It is obviously not hypnotism: you'll need a better excuse.

You said you have witnessed a Deliverance session before: good. Was there manifestations? And if there were manifestations,, were the actors paid? Or it's still hypnotism?

(Sorry, I dabbled a little into hypnotism when I didn't know Jesus)

MrPresident1:
Wetin dey happen for here

They want excuses to claim that demons aren't real and that Deliverance is acting by both good and bad actors. and that Hollywood standard is the standard of demonology

That's all

shadeyinka:
Can you please watch this and let's discuss after.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PQ_Ip-zf1M

Is this a fabrication?
A good acting by an actor?

Or

Another evidence that the spirit world exist.

IamSabrina :I expect lots of questions from you. Shalom!

I watched the video and honestly, I'm not impressed. As you'd probably guess, I think it's fabricated.

Why would the so called demon be 'willingly' saying everything so eloquently without resisting?
Why does the 'deliverer' keep asking all the questions about the demon(s)?
Of what use are the answers? To further convince the audience ?
Why does the woman jump up at once after the deliverance and say 'I'm free' ?
Who told her she's free?
Why does the deliverer keep mentioning and spraying the water?
Did she know she wasn't free in the first place?

I'd easily say the drama was staged to convince the audience that the church ministers and their 'morning water/holy water' is capable of casting out demons.

The church and its holy water is the product.
The drama is the advert.

shadeyinka:

Do you know anything about hypnotism?
1. For to hypnotize a person, he has to be prepped.
2. You can't Hypnotize an unwilling person
3. Hypnotism works on suggestions: who suggested those behaviours to Jim Iyke?

So, how do you think Jim Iyke was hypnotized?

If you remembered this story well (cause i do actually), he said the arrangement he had with Josh was that he'd lay hands on his mum and she'll get better. But Josh insisted he came along. Why was Josh insisting on seeing Jim?

1. For to hypnotize a person, he has to be prepped.
2. You can't Hypnotize an unwilling person
3. Hypnotism works on suggestions: who suggested those behaviours to Jim Iyke?

SMH @ you Shadeyinka. That you can't "Hypnotize an unwilling person or that a person needs prep" is completely untrue.

Heard of Dr. John Kappas? Look him up please. Dude developed methods to induce Hypnosis in 100% of the population. Get that? The entire population!

During your first session, he can utilize the methods and techniques on the spot and be able to determine what type of suggestibility you have, and how to best go about Hypnotizing you.

Jim's decision to see Josh did him in, he already concluded in his head that Josh is a "powerful man of God" and his mind already accepted the idea of Hypnosis and that Hypnotherapy is something he was willing to participate in.

NPComplete:


It is a publicity stunt for SCOAN. Those wankers are fake.

The mum is the reason why he was willing to do the stunt. That and the money SCOAN must have paid him. That guy is shady. And TB Joshua is worse. The only redeeming quality Joshua has is his philanthropy.

You see why I didn't want to compare you and IAmSabrina?

1. So, T.B. Joshua pays an average of 50 people every Sunday to come and act. And they haven't been blackmailing him because of Juju
2. Jim Iyke mother had terminal cancer and all he could think of was making money from scoan. Can you see how analytic you are?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZpxry0h9CQ

Watch his take of this after him mum had died. If you are in a hurry jump to minute 4.

3. Since Jim Iyke is by his own right comfortable, like how much do you think he was paid?

NPComplete:


I don't even believe Jim was hypnotised. The dodgy self-servicer collected a very huge amount of money from the equally dodgy TB Joshua to act that script. So years after frittering away the largesse he now came back to his senses and realised that the whole episode was damaging to his brand so he is now trying to walk it back.

Is there proof of Jim collecting money from Josh? I'm not aware of that. I'm only aware of and/or only recollect Jim's account of the tale, which is plastered all over the web btw.

Shadeyinka, pls watch this space.....

shadeyinka:

Forget about the title for anyone could have put any title. After all, there was no title before the lady started manifesting.

I agree with you unlike NPComplete who feel that Jim Iyke was paid to act.

Let's agree that he was abused. And I can relate to that because his consent wasn't sought before they "touched" him knowing that as a celebrity, he wouldn't appreciate manifesting like a crazy man.

So, what did they do to Jim Iyke that made him loose his senses. It is obviously not hypnotism: you'll need a better excuse.

You said you have witnessed a Deliverance session before: good. Was there manifestations? And if there were manifestations,, were the actors paid? Or it's still hypnotism?

(Sorry, I dabbled a little into hypnotism when I didn't know Jesus)

@first bold. Answered in another post

@second bold. I think we may have different interpretations of that word "manifestation". When i was little, i remember witnessing these "miracles" at the RCCG redemption camp. It was always "cripples" walking again, "blind" children seeing etc etc

And i always wondered what the medical reports of these kids said before and after the "deliverance". Did anyone bother to investigate?

shadeyinka:

You see why I didn't want to compare you and IAmSabrina?

1. So, T.B. Joshua pays an average of 50 people every Sunday to come and act. And they haven't been blackmailing him because of Juju
2. Jim Iyke mother had terminal cancer and all he could think of was making money from scoan. Can you see how analytic you are?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZpxry0h9CQ

Watch his take of this after him mum had died. If you are in a hurry jump to minute 4.

3. Since Jim Iyke is by his own right comfortable, like how much do you think he was paid?

The reason why I can't even take u seriously is when u believe money couldn't have been involved because the mother had cancer. Lol. People kill their mothers for money and u are here acting as if Jim Iyke is not a human being. Just look at u reasoning like a gnat. So because his mother is sick he couldn't possibly try to profit from it? U know this how? Do u even know the relationship he had with his mum before then? Lol. What if he saw the acting in the church as a way to recoup some of the money he had spent on his mothers illness?

Your inability to even consider the possibility is what makes ur argument weak.

And u know Jim Iyke is in his own right comfortable, how? Because he is an actor? What kind of pedestrian thinking is this?

I still maintain Jim Iyke was paid. You can't expect him to tell us he was paid but I am sure it is likely he was.

At last, one person is asking reasonable questions

Akdegreat:


I watched the video and honestly, I'm not impressed. As you'd probably guess, I think it's fabricated.

Why would the so called demon be 'willingly' saying everything so eloquently without resisting?

Because of fear of torment from the exorcist. It's like when mopol arrests thieves and interrogates them with red hot iron in their hands. They say even what they are not required to say. And demons have temperaments too. Some are cool and confident and some are fearful.

Akdegreat:

Why does the 'deliverer' keep asking all the questions about the demon(s)?
Of what use are the answers? To further convince the audience ?

Questioning is a form of interrogation. It is useful first for the demonized in case he/she cannot remember what was said and to be able to connect it to things happening in his/her life.

Akdegreat:

Why does the woman jump up at once after the deliverance and say 'I'm free' ?
Who told her she's free?

1. When a person is delivered he feels light/empty like something undescribable left their bodies.
2. For this particular lady, she saw herself on the floor in the front of the church. She knows that the only time that happens is after a deliverance.

Akdegreat:

Why does the deliverer keep mentioning and spraying the water?
Did she know she wasn't free in the first place?

Even though every Christian should be able to do deliverance. Few have the necessary faith and they need faith boosters like "annointed water" (ordinary water prayed upon by the man of God).

Many times except a person is gifted with the gift of discernment of spirits, he can't know. However, when you pray for some people and they begin to react violently to the prayers then you know for certain that the person is demonized.

Akdegreat:


I'd easily say the drama was staged to convince the audience that the church ministers and their 'morning water/holy water' is capable of casting out demons.

The church and its holy water is the product.
The drama is the advert.

And I also presented Jim Iyke: was he paid to act too?

I've answered your questions

IAmSabrina:

Is there proof of Jim collecting money from Josh? I'm not aware of that. I'm only aware of and/or only recollect Jim's account of the tale, which is plastered all over the web btw.

U don't expect Jim to tell us there was pecuniary inducement in the whole story that played out, do u?

That guy is shady. He just came out and painted himself as a victim of exploitation. But his history actually shows he is the one always trying to exploit other people. I don't believe that guy was just hypnotised by mere reverence of TB Joshua. The only thing that would have made it easy for him to play along, even if he was hypnotised, was the money involved.

NPComplete:


U don't expect Jim to tell us there was pecuniary inducement in the whole story that played out, do u?

That guy is shady. He just came out and painted himself as a victim of exploitation. But his history actually shows he is the one always trying to exploit other people. I don't believe that guy was just hypnotised by mere reverence of TB Joshua. The only thing that would have made it easy for him to play along, even if he was hypnotised, was the money involved.

I agree Jim is sly which is why i'm also ready to accept that his entire drama with Josh was a hoax

I'm yet to understand what point Shadeyinka is trying to make with this thread. That miracles are real or what?

IAmSabrina:

If you remembered this story well (cause i do actually), he said the arrangement he had with Josh was that he'd lay hands on his mum and she'll get better. But Josh insisted he came along. Why was Josh insisting on seeing Jim?

You got this wrong.
1. Jim Iykes expectation was that T.B. Joshua would lay hands on his mum and pray for her
2. The workers told him to attend the service first. He was even angry and wanted to go if not because of the people who came with him.
3. He never saw T.B. Joshua before the Deliverance. In fact it was one of TB Joshua's boys by name Daniel that did the deliverance.

IAmSabrina:

SMH @ you Shadeyinka. That you can't "Hypnotize an unwilling person or that a person needs prep" is completely untrue.

Heard of Dr. John Kappas? Look him up please. Dude developed methods to induce Hypnosis in 100% of the population. Get that? The entire population!

During your first session, he can utilize the methods and techniques on the spot and be able to determine what type of suggestibility you have, and how to best go about Hypnotizing you.

1. Even the so called mass hypnotism needs preparation
2. It is impossible to hypnotize an unwilling person
Those are the foundational truths of hypnotism.

It is possible to get an already hypnotized person to be on cue mode. All you have to do is to get the person to fall into deep hypnotic state when you give the required cue.

If it was that easy hypnotizing people don't you think robbers could just go into any bank, hypnotize every body and get them to load their waiting vehicle with cash?

IAmSabrina:

Jim's decision to see Josh did him in, he already concluded in his head that Josh is a "powerful man of God" and his mind already accepted the idea of Hypnosis and that Hypnotherapy is something he was willing to participate in.

If you know a little about hypnosis, you'll know that it's about suggestions and affirmation of subtle commands.

Hypnotherapy?
That isn't creative of you. Who do you think should need the hypnotherapy Jim or his Mum?

Have you ever seen a hypnotic event where they behave like under torment?

IAmSabrina:

Is there proof of Jim collecting money from Josh? I'm not aware of that. I'm only aware of and/or only recollect Jim's account of the tale, which is plastered all over the web btw.

Shadeyinka, pls watch this space.....


@first bold. Answered in another post

@second bold. I think we may have different interpretations of that word "manifestation". When i was little, i remember witnessing these "miracles" at the RCCG redemption camp. It was always "cripples" walking again, "blind" children seeing etc etc

And i always wondered what the medical reports of these kids said before and after the "deliverance". Did anyone bother to investigate?

Healing is what you have described.

Deliverance is like that that happened to the dog lady or Jim Iyke.

Manifestations is when the demon in a demonized person is forced to the surface (forced out of hiding). Demons as a rule always prefer to act covertly in a person. Because on the day a man know the demon troubling him the day he begins to find solutions to evicting the demon.

NPComplete:


The reason why I can't even take u seriously is when u believe money couldn't have been involved because the mother had cancer. Lol. People kill their mothers for money and u are here acting as if Jim Iyke is not a human being. Just look at u reasoning like a gnat. So because his mother is sick he couldn't possibly try to profit from it? U know this how? Do u even know the relationship he had with his mum before then? Lol. What if he saw the acting in the church as a way to recoup some of the money he had spent on his mothers illness?

Your inability to even consider the possibility is what makes ur argument weak.

And u know Jim Iyke is in his own right comfortable, how? Because he is an actor? What kind of pedestrian thinking is this?

I still maintain Jim Iyke was paid. You can't expect him to tell us he was paid but I am sure it is likely he was.

I will over look your "gnat"

How come every Sunday at least 50 people are paid to act in the name of deliverance. That is over 2500 per annum and you are not having hundreds of cases of blackmail of scoan?

Now those of us who are not pastors but have done a few Deliverances are also paying people?

Find a better excuse: you see why you're no match for Sabrina?

IAmSabrina:

I agree Jim is sly which is why i'm also ready to accept that his entire drama with Josh was a hoax

I'm yet to understand what point Shadeyinka is trying to make with this thread. That miracles are real or what?

Even Jim Iyke testified that he wasn't aware of what happened during the Deliverance session. It was when he saw the camera man focusing on him and him looking so tough and untidy that he knew something happened.

shadeyinka:

You got this wrong.
1. Jim Iykes expectation was that T.B. Joshua would lay hands on his mum and pray for her
2. The workers told him to attend the service first. He was even angry and wanted to go if not because of the people who came with him.
3. He never saw T.B. Joshua before the Deliverance. In fact it was one of TB Joshua's boys by name Daniel that did the deliverance.

Jim didn't need to attend the service, but whatever.

Why the need to deliver Jim? Wasn't Jim's mum the one with the problem?

shadeyinka:

1. Even the so called mass hypnotism needs preparation
2. It is impossible to hypnotize an unwilling person
Those are the foundational truths of hypnotism.

You haven't explained how Kappas was able to do it if really it needs preparation & a willing participant

I expect you to know that there are exceptions. People who are extremely susceptible to going into the trance-state are one example. The other, is that there are methods like NLP, 'stealth' inductions, and other manners that people CAN get someone into a hypnotic state without their 'immediate' consent.

I say 'immediate', because perhaps the person had given prior consent at one point, and have been conditioned to go 'back' into a hypnotic trance on command. If they've done it enough, they could be put into that trance state even if they don't want to go there 'this' time, as it were.

If it was that easy hypnotizing people don't you think robbers could just go into any bank, hypnotize every body and get them to load their waiting vehicle with cash?

No one said hypnotism was that easy. Hypnotism isn't something any Joe can wake up and one morning and do. It is a practice that requires professional skill & intense concentration.

Hypnotherapy?
That isn't creative of you. Who do you think should need the hypnotherapy Jim or his Mum?

It's not uncharacteristic for Jim to expect a pastor to engage him and/or lay hands on him. He's in a church service where everyone knows him and everyone knows he has a problem

Have you ever seen a hypnotic event where they behave like under torment?

Not really. But scroll up a little

PS: Come to think of it, what happened to Jim's mum after the whole incident? Do you remember?

shadeyinka:

Even Jim Iyke testified that he wasn't aware of what happened during the Deliverance session. It was when he saw the camera man focusing on him and him looking so tough and untidy that he knew something happened.

I don't doubt that Jim lost his memory

Rainbows look real, Shadeyinka. But can you see the end of it?

People suffer mentally, you know. Hysteria is a real phenomenon and has been extensively documented. So is mental illness, particularly schizophrenia, in which the sufferer actually can hear voices.

People are also highly suggestible, seeing and hearing what they've been primed to see and hear. Memory is now known to be so unreliable that many experts question its use in courtrooms. The human brain is thought by many non-psychologists to be refined and consistent instruments, when in fact they are fallible and easily misled.

Human perception is much weaker than you think!

Dantedasz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWyi3ShHxzM

Gosh. I'm not even kidding, this scene gave me nightmares when i was little.

Still haunts me to this day