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2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion - Car Talk - Nairaland

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2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by Denn(m): 10:04am On Apr 15, 2019
Hello

The subject refers.

I want to swap the complete power train in a 2013 Kia Rio to any other engine that can work seamlessly. I need information and guidance from people who have seen it done before for this model or who knows technicians that can do it within Lagos.

Prior Information
The current engine is stock but it is on its final leg of life.

The engines used for these models were not designed to be repaired (as I unfortunately found out the hard way). Bolts strip for no reason and the metal clearance after just 100,000 km sounds like afrobeat infused with weed. I do not intend to spend 500k on replacing the engine with a toks so I want to do a custom build using cheaper but more reliable powertrains (a Toyota Corolla 1ZZ comes into mind)

Please dont advise that I retain the stock form. I hate that block with a passion.

I have done engine swaps and conversions in the past for FR configurations (BMW mostly) but this is a FWD set up in a small space.

current specs
2013 Kia Rio with full OEM powertrain
4 cylinders
6 speed Manual transmission

future specs
2013 Kia Rio with a different powertrain (possibly any reliable one)
4 cylinders
Automatic transmission preferred


Advice and experiences can please be shared via comments here.

Thanks

PS: image is just an example of a 2013 Kia Rio and not mine. Source is Google

1 Like

Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by alphaNomega: 1:30pm On Apr 15, 2019
Oga, part out the car and get a new one.
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by diportivo: 3:24pm On Apr 15, 2019
my red Kia rio chronicles has been laid bare grin

oga denn....i dey this ur table...shake it vigorously

I will follow u in this quest.....my binoculars military standard as u blaze the trail grin

1 Like

Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by nurey(m): 6:29pm On Apr 15, 2019
This is not a classic

it's not a limited edition vehicle

it's not a sort after vehicle either

except you have a sentimental attachment if not sell as is.

why don't you rather source for the 1.6L gamma with GDI made for the US market, that would be more solid.

if you are bent on removing the piece of crap engine look at its predecessor alpha engines instead of Toyota engine.

2 Likes

Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by Denn(m): 7:20am On Apr 16, 2019
diportivo:
my red Kia rio chronicles has been laid bare grin

oga denn....i dey this ur table...shake it vigorously

I will follow u in this quest.....my binoculars military standard as u blaze the trail grin

grin

Let's shake it o, maybe a resolution to this debacle would be gotten.

Thanks for the comment
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by Denn(m): 7:41am On Apr 16, 2019
nurey:
This is not a classic

it's not a limited edition vehicle

it's not a sort after vehicle either

except you have a sentimental attachment if not sell as is.

why don't you rather source for the 1.6L gamma with GDI made for the US market, that would be more solid.

if you are bent on removing the piece of crap engine look at its predecessor alpha engines instead of Toyota engine.

Hi Nurey

Thanks for the comment.

This car unfortunately has been a huge money pit for me.

Apart from the dumb engine, every other part is in great impeccable condition; not a single rust, minimal scratches and the AC is as cold as any AC can get.

At this point, I am just trying to build something reliable that can be used at home or for city trips... giving some value to something almost as valueless as a discarded refrigerator.

Selling as is is not a good option. It implies I am throwing in the towel and not using this chance to learn something new. I don't do that.

These engines were not built to be repaired. They are powertrains meant to be discarded after usage...you can read online comments about them. How Kia would design such monstrosity still baffles me. One critical component of an engine that we all fail to even remember are the thread holes. Thread holes for the bolts and the threads themselves. If the Kia Rio engine should overheat just once, the thread holes start degrading to the point where camshafts can't sit in one place, the tappets get loosened etc....

Now, the alpha engine you mentioned is a very good choice. It is cheap, strong, built like normal engines and repairable too. I even have a 2008 Kia Cerato I can use as a donor.

Have you seen or heard of this engine been used as a swap? Would really appreciate more information.

Sorry for my long epistle.

Thanks

1 Like

Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by nurey(m): 9:03am On Apr 16, 2019
Denn:


Hi Nurey

Thanks for the comment.

This car unfortunately has been a huge money pit for me.

Apart from the dumb engine, every other part is in great impeccable condition; not a single rust, minimal scratches and the AC is as cold as any AC can get.

At this point, I am just trying to build something reliable that can be used at home or for city trips... giving some value to something almost as valueless as a discarded refrigerator.

Selling as is is not a good option. It implies I am throwing in the towel and not using this chance to learn something new. I don't do that.

These engines were not built to be repaired. They are powertrains meant to be discarded after usage...you can read online comments about them. How Kia would design such monstrosity still baffles me. One critical component of an engine that we all fail to even remember are the thread holes. Thread holes for the bolts and the threads themselves. If the Kia Rio engine should overheat just once, the thread holes start degrading to the point where camshafts can't sit in one place, the tappets get loosened etc....

Now, the alpha engine you mentioned is a very good choice. It is cheap, strong, built like normal engines and repairable too. I even have a 2008 Kia Cerato I can use as a donor.

Have you seen or heard of this engine been used as a swap? Would really appreciate more information.

Sorry for my long epistle.

Thanks


These particular generation has not been done though. I found for the former a Mazda engine and someone was talking about Honda k series engine. There are other reliable engines that would fit your manual transmission in a heartbeat but I don't know how easy it is to source them, am talking about the diesel engine fitted to the Hyundai getz.

I am actually interested in the swap because the car is damn cheap not because of resale value but the shitty engine most people don't wait for it to overheat or out of warranty before they dispose off of it grin
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by seanfer(m): 1:02pm On Apr 16, 2019
nurey:


These particular generation has not been done though. I found for the former a Mazda engine and someone was talking about Honda k series engine. There are other reliable engines that would fit your manual transmission in a heartbeat but I don't know how easy it is to source them, am talking about the diesel engine fitted to the Hyundai getz.

I am actually interested in the swap because the car is damn cheap not because of resale value but the shitty engine most people don't wait for it to overheat or out of warranty before they dispose off of it grin

Please if there's any solution.. I will be following this thread kindly post it... I might get myself a Kia Rio with Mazda Engine for daily runs grin
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by Denn(m): 3:42pm On Apr 17, 2019
seanfer:


Please if there's any solution.. I will be following this thread kindly post it... I might get myself a Kia Rio with Mazda Engine for daily runs grin

True ..I am still searching
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by Denn(m): 3:46pm On Apr 17, 2019
I have been doing some mental practice and I have noticed some points that the new engine must have to be a good fit.

First the engine must be on the right side and the transmission on the left.

Secondly, the intake manifold must be on the front and the exhaust manifold on the rear of the engine.

Any engine that must work must satisfy these requirements.

One engine that passes is the Corolla 1ZZ-FE. It has the same structure as a Kia Rio engine of the 2013 spec.

Which other engine has this same dimensions?

2 Likes

Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by Epzilon: 3:55pm On Apr 17, 2019
Gazzuzz is typing...
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by nurey(m): 5:01pm On Apr 17, 2019
cc Gazzuzz, honmusa, Autologic, mayor2013, timifakay, oluwaseunla, Autoelectng, kingreign make una chuk mouth nah

we don see free specimen let's put head together to make Kia Rio great again grin

3 Likes

Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by GAZZUZZ(m): 6:48pm On Apr 17, 2019
denn I am only responding because you are a techincian.

To avoid cuts and joints, pls understudy the hyundai elantra 2007 Dana spec and the 2.0liter from USA.

My suggestion is you find a wrecked Elantra 2.0 cut it in half, and take the front part home. Harvest all you need. It will be an easy instalation. Manual or auto. Where it might become tricky is the electronic power steering. It will see a different engine ecu, and might not work.

7 Likes 1 Share

Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by RZArecta2(m): 9:48pm On Apr 17, 2019
Been long i saw an interesting topic on car talk section, this place has been turned to Owode market.

Op, I'm following this thread bumper to bumper

3 Likes

Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by diportivo: 10:11pm On Apr 17, 2019
RZArecta2:
Been long i saw an interesting topic on car talk section, this place has been turned to Owode market.

Op, I'm following this thread bumper to bumper


mainly because when sensible topics dat will need input of gurus surface,overzealous mods push it to front page and dat ends it all


I will swear for whoever does that to this thread...weda he likes snakes or not undecided

5 Likes

Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by timifakay(m): 10:32am On Apr 18, 2019
1. The air-conditioning system of the Rio is not gonna remain when the engine is changed to that of another vehicle as the compressor won't fit except s d stand is construct, but I doubt there will be space for that, also thereshigh chance of pipes breaking during the surgery.

2. Get a tape rule to measure the engine bay space avaible for you to play around. You may have to do away with most of the packing and pads in the engine bay.

3. Measure distance between the wheels and choose a donor vehicle that has about the same dimension to avoid trouble in that area.

4. Instrument cluster compatibility

1 Like

Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by Denn(m): 10:33am On Apr 18, 2019
GAZZUZZ:
denn I am only responding because you are a techincian.

To avoid cuts and joints, pls understudy the hyundai elantra 2007 Dana spec and the 2.0liter from USA.

My suggestion is you find a wrecked Elantra 2.0 cut it in half, and take the front part home. Harvest all you need. It will be an easy instalation. Manual or auto. Where it might become tricky is the electronic power steering. It will see a different engine ecu, and might not work.

Thanks for the input Gazzuzz.

The 2007 Hyundai Elantra is very similar to the 2007/8 Kia Cerato and even shares similar power train and layout.... exhaust manifold in front and intake manifold from the rear of the engine.

The 2013 Kia Rio on the other hand has a completely opposite layout with intake in front and exhaust at the rear.

Vehicles with exhaust manifolds in front have their exhausts modded to flow under the engine around the beam, rack and other components all the way through the bulkhead.

This would involve modifying the steering rack set up, fabricating a lower beam as the Elantra or cerato is wider, and hammering the bulkhead to pave way for the exhaust pipes.

The current set up has the steering rack directly sitting in any space the proposed exhaust might try to snake through and the opening on the body for the exhaust extremely higher than the beam to allow for the default exhaust to just slip out straight to the back without any bends.

Infact, I bought a 2007 Kia Cerato just to do this and saw all these issues.

The 2009 Kia Cerato on the other hand has the first iteration of the same engine in the 2013 Kia Rio with a plastic intake manifold in the front and the exhaust at the rear. Infact, my brief glance tells me it is the same block, save for difference in displacements....the same block I am trying to run away from. The major difference I noticed is that the 2009 is a drive by cable while the 2013 is a drive by wire.
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by Denn(m): 10:47am On Apr 18, 2019
timifakay:
1. The air-conditioning system of the Rio is not gonna remain when the engine is changed to that of another vehicle as the compressor won't fit except s d stand is construct, but I doubt there will be space for that, also thereshigh chance of pipes breaking during the surgery.

2. Get a tape rule to measure the engine bay space avaible for you to play around. You may have to do away with most of the packing and pads in the engine bay.

3. Measure distance between the wheels and choose a donor vehicle that has about the same dimension to avoid trouble in that area.

4. Instrument cluster compatibility

Thanks for these inputs.

As for AC, I think we can still use the compressor from the donor engine, cut the hoses and weld onto the existing pipes

Will take the measurements as advised, thanks

Instrument cluster....hnmmmmm... speedometer and tachometer working based on different ECUs and programs.... another major hurdle to cross. Sir, how do you think we can get this working?

Thanks for your inputs
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by GAZZUZZ(m): 12:11pm On Apr 18, 2019
Denn:


Thanks for the input Gazzuzz.

The 2007 Hyundai Elantra is very similar to the 2007/8 Kia Cerato and even shares similar power train and layout.... exhaust manifold in front and intake manifold from the rear of the engine.

The 2013 Kia Rio on the other hand has a completely opposite layout with intake in front and exhaust at the rear.

Vehicles with exhaust manifolds in front have their exhausts modded to flow under the engine around the beam, rack and other components all the way through the bulkhead.

This would involve modifying the steering rack set up, fabricating a lower beam as the Elantra or cerato is wider, and hammering the bulkhead to pave way for the exhaust pipes.

The current set up has the steering rack directly sitting in any space the proposed exhaust might try to snake through and the opening on the body for the exhaust extremely higher than the beam to allow for the default exhaust to just slip out straight to the back without any bends.

Infact, I bought a 2007 Kia Cerato just to do this and saw all these issues.

The 2009 Kia Cerato on the other hand has the first iteration of the same engine in the 2013 Kia Rio with a plastic intake manifold in the front and the exhaust at the rear. Infact, my brief glance tells me it is the same block, save for difference in displacements....the same block I am trying to run away from. The major difference I noticed is that the 2009 is a drive by cable while the 2013 is a drive by wire.

You have your work cut out for you.
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by b2212(m): 2:34pm On Apr 18, 2019
Denn:


Thanks for the input Gazzuzz.

The 2007 Hyundai Elantra is very similar to the 2007/8 Kia Cerato and even shares similar power train and layout.... exhaust manifold in front and intake manifold from the rear of the engine.

The 2013 Kia Rio on the other hand has a completely opposite layout with intake in front and exhaust at the rear.

Vehicles with exhaust manifolds in front have their exhausts modded to flow under the engine around the beam, rack and other components all the way through the bulkhead.

This would involve modifying the steering rack set up, fabricating a lower beam as the Elantra or cerato is wider, and hammering the bulkhead to pave way for the exhaust pipes.

The current set up has the steering rack directly sitting in any space the proposed exhaust might try to snake through and the opening on the body for the exhaust extremely higher than the beam to allow for the default exhaust to just slip out straight to the back without any bends.

Infact, I bought a 2007 Kia Cerato just to do this and saw all these issues.

The 2009 Kia Cerato on the other hand has the first iteration of the same engine in the 2013 Kia Rio with a plastic intake manifold in the front and the exhaust at the rear. Infact, my brief glance tells me it is the same block, save for difference in displacements....the same block I am trying to run away from. The major difference I noticed is that the 2009 is a drive by cable while the 2013 is a drive by wire.
What about trying an Hyundai accent of similar vintage
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by GAZZUZZ(m): 2:54pm On Apr 18, 2019
b2212:

What about trying an Hyundai accent of similar vintage

same exhaust direction and compressor direction with the elantra and cerato options
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by MotorGuru: 3:22pm On Apr 18, 2019
Denn:


Thanks for the input Gazzuzz.

The 2007 Hyundai Elantra is very similar to the 2007/8 Kia Cerato and even shares similar power train and layout.... exhaust manifold in front and intake manifold from the rear of the engine.

The 2013 Kia Rio on the other hand has a completely opposite layout with intake in front and exhaust at the rear.

Vehicles with exhaust manifolds in front have their exhausts modded to flow under the engine around the beam, rack and other components all the way through the bulkhead.

This would involve modifying the steering rack set up, fabricating a lower beam as the Elantra or cerato is wider, and hammering the bulkhead to pave way for the exhaust pipes.

The current set up has the steering rack directly sitting in any space the proposed exhaust might try to snake through and the opening on the body for the exhaust extremely higher than the beam to allow for the default exhaust to just slip out straight to the back without any bends.

Infact, I bought a 2007 Kia Cerato just to do this and saw all these issues.

The 2009 Kia Cerato on the other hand has the first iteration of the same engine in the 2013 Kia Rio with a plastic intake manifold in the front and the exhaust at the rear. Infact, my brief glance tells me it is the same block, save for difference in displacements....the same block I am trying to run away from. The major difference I noticed is that the 2009 is a drive by cable while the 2013 is a drive by wire.

Sighs..

This is a lot of re-engineering in which cost-wise, is a bummer.

have you considered installing instead the 1.6 L Gamma I4 GDI installed in the US spec of this car?( it seems you have the 1.2L engine in yours?). I think this engine may have a more robust design.

Yes it would also require associated ECU and wiring but would it not be a 'cheaper' option?
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by MotorGuru: 3:27pm On Apr 18, 2019
Denn:
Hello

The subject refers.

I want to swap the complete power train in a 2013 Kia Rio to any other engine that can work seamlessly. I need information and guidance from people who have seen it done before for this model or who knows technicians that can do it within Lagos.

Prior Information
The current engine is stock but it is on its final leg of life.

The engines used for these models were not designed to be repaired (as I unfortunately found out the hard way). Bolts strip for no reason and the metal clearance after just 100,000 km sounds like afrobeat infused with weed. I do not intend to spend 500k on replacing the engine with a toks so I want to do a custom build using cheaper but more reliable powertrains (a Toyota Corolla 1ZZ comes into mind)

Please dont advise that I retain the stock form. I hate that block with a passion.

I have done engine swaps and conversions in the past for FR configurations (BMW mostly) but this is a FWD set up in a small space.

current specs
2013 Kia Rio with full OEM powertrain
4 cylinders
6 speed Manual transmission

future specs
2013 Kia Rio with a different powertrain (possibly any reliable one)
4 cylinders
Automatic transmission preferred


Advice and experiences can please be shared via comments here.

Thanks

PS: image is just an example of a 2013 Kia Rio and not mine. Source is Google


Remember you replaced a BMW engine with another BMW engine installed for the same model years
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by Denn(m): 6:58pm On Apr 18, 2019
MotorGuru:



Remember you replaced a BMW engine with another BMW engine installed for the same model years

Not same year...BMW E30 3 series from 1987 got a powertrain from a 1995 BMW 5 series E34...and it was not plug and play....
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by Denn(m): 7:01pm On Apr 18, 2019
MotorGuru:


Sighs..

This is a lot of re-engineering in which cost-wise, is a bummer.

have you considered installing instead the 1.6 L Gamma I4 GDI installed in the US spec of this car?( it seems you have the 1.2L engine in yours?). I think this engine may have a more robust design.

Yes it would also require associated ECU and wiring but would it not be a 'cheaper' option?

My car currently has the 1.4L engine. The US spec 1.6L costs N450,000 for engine alone.
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by adanny01(m): 7:19am On Apr 19, 2019
If i were to be in your shoes op, i will be looking at a different direction. Not an engine swap but a preventative measure for overheating since that is the problem.

The challenges are enormous, to fit an engine to transmission, drive shaft, air filter and exhaust is the least of the worries. Getting the instrument panel, ECU, AC, electronic power steering and other things to work properly is the biggest challenge.

Since overheating is the problem, i would instead construct an electrical device having an input from ECT sensor, that will beep at 2 degrees above normal and then plugging a relay switch that will cut fuel pump power or other power that should kill the engine.

Normal cars are allowed to over heat but this car will not. A good electrical engineer should know how to get a circuit board that will recognize the voltage from the ECT using it to turn on the beep and the relay to turn off engine.

2 Likes

Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by timifakay(m): 7:49am On Apr 19, 2019
Denn:


Thanks for these inputs.

As for AC, I think we can still use the compressor from the donor engine, cut the hoses and weld onto the existing pipes

Will take the measurements as advised, thanks

Instrument cluster....hnmmmmm... speedometer and tachometer working based on different ECUs and programs.... another major hurdle to cross. Sir, how do you think we can get this working?

Thanks for your inputs

When compressor is changed, there's possibility of lesser efficiency when compared to the stock compressor.

As for instrument cluster, the wires will have to be painstakingly and individually joined. The reason I'm so skeptical about it is that a neighbour here recently converted a diesel engine, 6 speed manual tranny, 2007 Corolla Verso to the petrol 1ZZ engine, 5 speed tranny and nothing on his instrument cluster works... Asked him if the person who wants to do. It has done such before and he said yes, and now he's regretting, AC too doesn't work atm...

You can study the ECU to cluster wiring to see if it's same for donor vehicle and your Rio in order to know if it can be reconstructed.
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by diportivo: 7:05pm On Aug 05, 2019
where are we with this thing oga Denn.??
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by AgentGoat: 10:30pm On Aug 05, 2019
diportivo:
where are we with this thing oga Denn.??
e dey dumping yard for owode undecided
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by DaimlerBen(m): 12:59pm On Jun 03, 2020
Denn:


Not same year...BMW E30 3 series from 1987 got a powertrain from a 1995 BMW 5 series E34...and it was not plug and play....

Does it have a thread?
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by ivoryhouse(m): 2:00pm On Jun 03, 2020
Denn:


Not same year...BMW E30 3 series from 1987 got a powertrain from a 1995 BMW 5 series E34...and it was not plug and play....

The swap can work, if skilled technicians handle it. Do your research. They said we couldn't swap a range rover p38 4.0l v8 in a defender (I'll create the thread soon �) . But we not only did it, we swapped in parts from different cars so the defender drives like a new car and has crazy acceleration. You need a very good electrical guy, not just a rewire.
Re: 2013 Kia Rio Engine Swap/conversion by id4sho(m): 9:36pm On Aug 15, 2020
ivoryhouse:

The swap can work, if skilled technicians handle it. Do your research. They said we couldn't swap a range rover p38 4.0l v8 in a defender (I'll create the thread soon �) . But we not only did it, we swapped in parts from different cars so the defender drives like a new car and has crazy acceleration. You need a very good electrical guy, not just a rewire.
waiting for the thread, CHEERS

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