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|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by budaatum: 11:34am On May 11|
Shepherd00:You really are funny. You are the one refusing to fellowship and you believe that angers me as if your not fellowshipping with me will reduce my daily bread.
Not only out of the abundance of the heart does one speak, but out of it does one act and produce fruits too Shepherd.
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Ihedinobi3: 1:17pm On May 11|
XxSabrinaxX:I have wondered about this for a while, so I may as well ask you:
why do you call my attention to things like this when you do not believe what I say? In what way do you believe that I can help anybody at all, if you believe that I have no help to give to anybody?
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|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Image123(m): 2:48pm On May 11|
Lol, he's probably like Herod, who loves to hear John baptist.
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by XxSabrinaxX(f): 3:23pm On May 11|
Ihedinobi3:SMH. The way you reason blows my mind.
OP is a skeptic doubting his faith and i only wanted to hear opinions from you and your comrades.
I have to ask you too: Why do you always try to draw complicated meanings from simple issues?
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by XxSabrinaxX(f): 3:25pm On May 11|
It's a SHE by the way
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Image123(m): 3:27pm On May 11|
Okay, Lol, she's probably like Herod, who loves to hear John baptist.
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Hermes019: 3:48pm On May 11|
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Hermes019: 3:51pm On May 11|
shadeyinka:God has a spiritual DNA,I'm impressed
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by shadeyinka(m): 4:39pm On May 11|
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by XxSabrinaxX(f): 5:38pm On May 11|
Image123:Man. What a joke
Your stand up show will be a genocide
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|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Dantedasz: 6:37pm On May 11|
Nice questions @OP. This is going to be sumptuous.
Modified~I should have known better. Dancing around. NO ANSWERS to the OP"s simple questions.
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Ihedinobi3: 10:22pm On May 11|
I'm a fellow Christian. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and I am committed to following Him according to the Bible.
To begin with, it is never a wise thing to set oneself up as God's judge. When we ask whether it is right for God to do this or that, we are presuming to possess some standard for moral judgment that is independent of God. This is an impossibility. Moral definitions are determined only by God. What God says is right is what is right, what He says is wrong is what is wrong. Otherwise, there is no right and wrong, and we're all really making morality up.
What I mean is that only if God says that it is wrong to judge one person for the sins of another for one reason or the other is it wrong at all. We don't just decide that for ourselves. It is true that human beings come with a pretty sophisticated conscience, so that we can make judgment calls about a wide array of things, but it was God Who designed and created us with that conscience. It is meaningless then to attempt to dictate to Him what right and wrong both are when we only know what they are because He teaches us what they are.
Having said that, I have not seen any place where the Bible teaches that we are judged for Adam's and Eve's sins. Perhaps the following passages are some of what you may mean:
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-
But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
Romans 5:12,15-19 NASB
These passages have sometimes been misinterpreted to mean that we are all condemned for Adam's sin, but note the following excerpts from the above:
"...death spread to all men, because all sinned..."
"...through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners..."
The emphasized text in these excerpts is very critical to understanding what the whole passage teaches. They state quite clearly that, on the one hand, it is because all sinned that death spread to all men, and on the other, the many were MADE sinners, not condemned because of another man's sin. So, it is not that we are punished for Adam's sin but rather that we became sinners because of his sin. This is further explained between Romans 6 and Romans 8 with the doctrine of the sin nature or the flesh.
When Adam ate the fruit, he did so in full knowledge of his sin. He was not deceived like his wife Eve was (1 Timothy 2:14). For this reason, it was his curse to pass down his corrupted flesh to his offspring. This is what the verses from Romans 5 are teaching. We do not inherit Adam's sin. Rather, we inherit his sinful body which produces in us a tendency to evil right from birth. All males pass this down to their children. This is why only the Lord Jesus Christ Who was born by a virgin has come into the world with a perfectly sin-free body. That allowed Him to offer the Perfect Sacrifice after having been tested vigorously and proving that He would never disobey God no matter what the incentive might be.
But, as you asked, what about the rest of us? Why do we all come into the world already disadvantaged by the sin nature or the flesh? The answer is as follows:
For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
Romans 11:32 NASB
That is, God allowed what happened in Eden to happen so that He would demonstrate His Mercy through forgiving sinners.
To explain this, we have to begin at the beginning. As you probably know, the angels already existed before man was created. They are part of the reason why man was created. When God first created the universe, He made it perfect and instantaneously. The angels were created then to inhabit it and rule it (see, for example, Revelation 7:1; 9:11; 14:18; 16:5. These are only a sampling. Throughout Scripture, the control that angels have over the physical universe is quite obvious and pronounced). Just like men, however, angels were being tested then regarding whether they wanted to remain in that perfect relationship with God and the universe around them or not. They possessed a free will (See, for example, Job 1:6; 2:1; Psalm 82:6. The term "son(s) of God" points to delegated moral authority, that is, the ability to act in God's stead over His Creation as you will see in the context of that Psalm. To be able to act intelligently implies the ability to choose whether to act in submission to the One delegating authority to you or to act contrary to Him). In other words, although angels were created perfect, they possessed a real ability to choose to rebel against God if they preferred.
Satan was the highest ranking angel that God created. He was a cherub, the only one that existed then. He was, in a sense, the Imperial Guard or the Royal Guard of God's Throne (Ezekiel 28:12-15, esp v.14). He was the very standard of perfection in creation then. In short, he was second only to God in his position then. You can guess from that that he couldn't possibly have lacked for anything. If you did, you are right. He lacked nothing. But that was the test.
Satan and all other angels are spirits. This enabled them to have an incredible amount of knowledge and power by nature (2 Peter 2:10b-11). Physical bodies act as a damper on these things (1 Corinthians 13:12; 2 Corinthians 4:7; Psalm 8:5a; Hebrews 2:7). Angels then were given all that any moral creature could be given to encourage them to choose to remain in eternal submission to God. All that was left to ensure that was to take away their free will, and God does not do that. Each of us must choose.
Satan chose to rebel. He chose to look at his gifts and judge his abilities and his rights based on them. His verdict was that he, although a mere creature with a beginning unlike the true God Who has always existed without beginning and who will never ceases to exist, could become God (Isaiah 14:13-14). He thought too highly of himself, and that ultimately led him into full-blown rebellion against his Maker and Master, the Lord God Himself.
In his rebellion, he deceived a third of the angels to join him (Revelation 12:3-4; Ezekiel 28:16).
"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels...
Matthew 25:41 NASB
This is what led to the creation of Man. Although God had always planned to create Man, it was angelic rebellion, which the Lord Himself both foresaw and decreed, that led to the actual event.
Man was made to replace the angels who rebelled against God. As I already said, he was made weaker than the angels, but he too was given a free will just like them. He was made with a physical body that was suited to earthly physical life rather than spiritual existence. This was deliberate on God's Part, because Satan's "trafficking" or "trade" (Ezekiel 28:16) or campaigning to win support for his coup d'etat had involved lying about God's Character and accusing Him of withholding the benefits of a physical body from His Angels. You can see from the focus of the Ministry of the Lord Jesus on exorcism in the gospels that rebellious angels have a real desire, and a very strong one too, to inhabit physical bodies. Compare, for example, the story of the Demoniacs of the Gadarenes to the Lord's mention of demons returning to bodies out of which they had been previously cast (Mark 5:1-13; Matthew 12:43). This was possible because the universe of that time was only different from this one in its perfection and absolute lack of any kind of judgment upon sin since there hadn't been any sin to punish yet. Angels knew what physical bodies were since they saw animals that had them then.
Man was created with a physical body partly to demonstrate to the angels that a physical body is a limitation for the spirit, not any kind of benefit. Angels, even as spirits, can experience material phenomena and manipulate and affect them (Genesis 18:1-16, esp v.8; Matthew 28:2). However, their experience of them is different from the experience that any material being can have of the same phenomena. As you can see, for example, angels very easily navigate space, ascending and descending from the Third Heaven (a location outside of this creation, as Hebrews 9:11 teaches) all the time, but we would soon die if we tried to get out of the Earth's atmosphere. So, no, the angels never needed a physical body to experience the material universe that God made for them. In fact, the physical body is an encumbrance (2 Corinthians 5:2; Revelation 7:16-17). That was partly what man was going to demonstrate.
There was something more important, however. Man sinned, not least because he was weak enough to be deceived by Satan (Genesis 3:13). When that happened, Satan expected that swift sentence would be carried out and the human couple would be killed by the Just God (Genesis 2:16-17), thus ending all possibility of their replacing him and his cohorts. This did not happen. Satan was the wisest creature alive but he did not know the extent of God's Wisdom. Although Mercy and Justice do oppose each other, God can reconcile them both. When the angels sinned, they did so fully aware that they were sinning. Their nature also meant that they were never going to change their choice once it was made, because their choice was made after considering a far larger array of information than men are able to consider in the flesh. They were persuaded by Satan to believe that because God was Merciful, He could not act in Justice against them, and also that His Justice would not allow Him to forgive them so that there could be no reconciliation. This would box God into a corner and allow them to take over Creation and do as they please. This is what Paul was referring to when he said,
To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;
so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.
Ephesians 3:8-10 NASB
That is, God was going to demonstrate through man that He can forgive sin without violating His Justice. This would prove beyond any shadow of doubt that His Condemnation of Satan and his angels will be perfectly just and His removal of them from His Creation perfectly right "so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God" (Romans 3:19 NASB). He would have forgiven them if they were willing to repent their actions, nor will His Justice ignore their sin.
This is why God created Man even though He knew and had decreed from eternity past, before ever creating anything, that Man would sin. When Adam willingly chose to rebel against God, he signed his death warrant. His right to life had been forfeited. He had only death - first the spiritual, that is, his connection to God, second the physical, and finally the Second Death or the Lake of Fire - to look forward to. But God offered him another chance. A Savior would be given Who would die for all of humankind's sins to allow anyone who wished for it to be reconciled to God and forgiven all their sins. Because this Savior would suffer the just punishment for all the sins of human beings, it would be right and just for God to forgive all sinners (Romans 3:21-26; 1 John 1:9).
This is how God fixed Adam's failure and thoroughly condemned Satan's rebellion. It is why we are all born with a sinful nature.
Now, although all human beings come into the world with a sinful nature, we don't lack a free will for all that. We are not forced to sin no matter what. We still sin only because we want to. It doesn't matter if we sin ignorantly. When we sin, we do so because we want to rebel against God. When we do it ignorantly (as we mostly do, especially as children), we still need to be redeemed and forgiven. So, the fact that we are all born with sinful flesh and that we are largely ignorant of our sins is no reason at all to think that we have no responsibility to God for what we think, say, and do at any given time in our lives. We most certainly are. This is why the Lord God Himself chose to put on human flesh, albeit a perfect sinless one, in order to come down and die for our many sins so that we can be saved. If He did not do that, it wouldn't matter whether it is our fault that we have sinful flesh or that we are ignorant of what constitutes sin in large part, we would all end up in the Lake of Fire. God would be none the worse for it. He can create an infinite number of universes infinite times better and more complex and absolutely perfect to replace us. We are the ones who would be that much worse for it.
So, while we groan in this flesh and wish for our testing to be over, it is in our very best interest to recognize and appreciate the incredible kindness and compliment that God pays us by using us to show the angels that even something so weak as a human being can do what someone so great as Satan himself would not do, and that something so insignificant as man is worth saving to the Lord God. We are the very center of all creation because of this. It is because of this that we now have kinship with God Himself since the Lord Jesus Christ Who was God the Word before there was ever a Universe condescended to share our humanity forever, binding us firmly and irrevocably to God forever.
We may be nothing now. We may suffer now. We may stumble and fall and cry and bewail our failure now. But not too long from now, we will be resurrected to be like our Lord and Master Who ran this course before us and redeemed us to Himself and to His Father forever. We will be greater even than the angels themselves. This is what we encourage ourselves with. This is why we keep running, why we keep getting up every time we fall, why we keep encouraging one another and preaching the Gospel to all those who will hear us. This is why we are here.
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|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Ihedinobi3: 10:24pm On May 11|
How have you been, my brother?
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Ihedinobi3: 10:28pm On May 11|
XxSabrinaxX:I don't think this is such a bad thing. You could simply ask me to tell you what I have to say. When you tell me to come help someone, the question is why you think I can help them if you have never yourself found any help in me.
As for drawing complicated meanings out of simple things, the problem may be one of perception. What you consider as complicated meanings may just be things you have rendered yourself incapable of comprehending, no matter how simple they may be.
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|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by XxSabrinaxX(f): 10:37pm On May 11|
Ihedinobi3:In the future, Ihedinobi, try to clarify what i ask instead of assuming. Knowing me & knowing my siggy, you shouldn't always take my words literally
As for drawing complicated meanings out of simple things, the problem may be one of perception. What you consider as complicated meanings may just be things you have rendered yourself incapable of comprehending, no matter how simple they may be.Don't flatter yourself mister. When i said "complicated", i was just trying to be polite. You may have taken offence with the initial word i was going to use.
This quote from Lincoln should give you a hint: "He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any one I know."
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|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Image123(m): 10:42pm On May 11|
Very fine, dear brother. Thanks and keep standing.
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Hermes019: 3:12pm On May 12|
shadeyinka:Of course anyone that questions your doctrine is blind
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by shadeyinka(m): 3:32pm On May 12|
Hermes019:It is ok to Question doctrines.
It is blindness to deliberatly misinterprete simple English language expressions.
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Maximus69: 7:21pm On May 12|
shadeyinka:Expecting the question and answer friendly discuss Sir!
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by shadeyinka(m): 7:30pm On May 12|
Maximus69:I haven't forgotten. I will call you then
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Maximus69: 7:34pm On May 12|
shadeyinka:When i said 'FAREWELL' i meant it for REAL. And when i said 'OK, let's discuss' i meant every word! Exodus 5:5
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by shadeyinka(m): 7:52pm On May 12|
Maximus69:No problem. All is well
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Maximus69: 8:00pm On May 12|
shadeyinka:It's well IJMN!
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Hermes019: 3:54pm On May 13|
shadeyinka:Thats is what I'm saying
If anyone questions your stance ot becomes misinterpretation
You said God put his spirit in man,and you insinuated that Gods spirit is his DNA,at the end of the day you are saying that God has a DNA
Everywhere you go DNA is deoxyribonucleic acid so please how did I misinterprete what you said
Again I ask,how come God has DNA,how did you come about that
In this case DNA is not suitable to be used in the figurative sense,so if you say God has a DNA,i should question that the same way if you say God has a brain I would question that
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by OtemAtum: 6:15pm On May 13|
Yahweh wants independent and free people to eventually roast in fire? Lol. The spiritual cage of Yahweh is very well deserved for him.
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by shadeyinka(m): 6:58pm On May 13|
OtemAtum:If you are unwilling to be of use to Him why complain that you are rejected?
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by shadeyinka(m): 7:09pm On May 13|
You deliberatly choose to misunderstand Figurative Expression of the use of the word DNA even though you saw that it was put in a bracket.
I'll paste the post here again for you to see:
shadeyinka:If you want to know why the Spirit of God is likened to the DNA, I will explain. Unfortunately, that wasn't your question: in fact you were just bent on ridicule hence your Deliberate misunderstanding.
And did I say God has a DNA or I was liking Gods Spirit to the DNA? Judge for yourself. I know you understand English language!
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Hermes019: 9:05pm On May 13|
shadeyinka:It is ridiculous to use the DNA figuratively in this instance,if God doesn't have a DNA why use it to describe him,can u use the human reproductive part to describe any feature of God,the bible doesn't compare Gods spirit to the DNA so how did you come about the idea that Gods spirit can be likened to deoxyribonuceic acid
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by shadeyinka(m): 9:25pm On May 13|
Hermes019:Ok. I hear you.
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by OtemAtum: 12:45am On May 14|
shadeyinka:when did I make such complaint?
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by budaatum: 2:17pm On May 14|
Shepherd00:Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Note, "thy God", which you better get the best understanding of. And note how important the second command is, being "like unto" the first, both on which "all the law and the prophets" hang.
|Re: Don't Judge Me, I Only Need Answers by Shepherd00: 6:26pm On May 14|
budaatum:I'll only respond to you if you post this in my thread. Stop this Buda, it makes you appear dishonest.
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