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"Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by jesusjnr(m): 9:32pm On May 11
mployer:
The gifts and callings of God are without repentance.
One of the greatest lies ever told!

Proof:

1 Samuel 13:13-14 (KJV)

13 And Samuel said to Saul, Thou hast done foolishly: thou hast not kept the commandment of the LORD thy God, which he commanded thee: for now would the LORD have established thy kingdom upon Israel for ever.
14 But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that which the LORD commanded thee.

1 Samuel 15:22-23, 26 (KJV)

22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.

1 Samuel 16:14 (KJV)

14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

2 Likes

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Righteousness89: 9:32pm On May 11
pressplay411:
"Once saved, forever safe."
This is unscriptural.
Beware of Tares, false prophets and Grace abusers.
This has made Christians remain comfortable as lone-rangers, bench-warmers, onlookers, babes in the Faith and rebellious believers. Christians have become comfortable in sin and have become the ones establishing corruption and the kingdom of unrighteousness even worse than unbelievers.

Notable believers who lost their salvation;
King Saul in the Old Testament.
Judas Iscariot right under Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour Himself.
Ananias and Sapphira in the New Testament struck dead by the Holy Spirit Himself.

We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. We are to guard our salvation with all diligence.

Christ never said we're saved for ever just for believing in him, for demons do too but are not saved. He said, if we love him, we should keep his commands. He said, if judgement comes, will He find Faith? He said people will stray away from the Faith, unbelief will spread even among believers who will fall for false prophets.
Even Apostle Paul never said Grace saves anyone for ever because even He said He was fighting the good fight of Faith, to take hold of eternal life.

The precuous blood of Jesus saves all who believe in Christ from being unbelievers and from living a disconnected life from God. Truly Christ refers to unbelievers as the dead, because to be carnal is death.- 1st stage of Salvation.

Discipleship; Learning of Christ. Obedience and Faith in the Words of Christ keeps us Saved. We start growing in the Likeness of Christ, bearing His Fruit and His Nature. We start doing greater works like Christ did winning souls, healing the sick, casting out demons, finding our place in ministry and establishing God's Kingdom on earth etc- 2nd Stage of Salvation.

When we die or are raptured, would we still be doing the works of Christ, keeping our Faith even in the face of Death- Final stage of Salvation.

Once Saved Forever Saved is a fallacy From the pit of Hell!

The Grace of GOD is not a License to Sin

8 Likes 2 Shares

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 9:33pm On May 11
shadeyinka:

1. I believe in God's foreknowledge of our actions on earth even before He created anything
2. I believe that based on Gods foreknowledge, He made provision (special grace) predestination for those He had foreknown
3. Gods predestination is NOT random else He would be unjust to condemn a person who had not yet commited sin/iniquity.

4. Apart from this aspect of predestination (which has to do with salvation) , I doubt if God predestined our lives else, we would not/can not be guilty of what we have been predestined to do.

No one ever blames a Lime/Lemon for being bitter.
But if an orange tree would produce bitter orange, we will cut it down


I guess we do have points where we disagree.

Everything that happens in our life is in accordance with the will of God although we are given free will of choice.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 9:38pm On May 11
Righteousness89:


Once Saved Forever Saved is a fallacy From the pit of Hell!

The Grace of GOD is not a License to Sin

A true Christian would never see it as one.
He who abuses the grace of God isn't truly saved.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by alBHAGDADI: 9:39pm On May 11
So much false doctrine in one post. The sad part is that the person disseminating the false doctrine is the one accusing others of doing such.

Now, let's examine your argument.

pressplay411:
"Once saved, forever safe."
This is unscriptural.
Beware of Tares, false prophets and Grace abusers.
This has made Christians remain comfortable as lone-rangers, bench-warmers, onlookers, babes in the Faith and rebellious believers. Christians have become comfortable in sin and have become the ones establishing corruption and the kingdom of unrighteousness even worse than unbelievers..
You have clearly stated nothing here. Can mention just one name of man alive today who is without sin?

pressplay411:

Notable believers who lost their salvation;
King Saul in the Old Testament.
Judas Iscariot right under Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour Himself.
Ananias and Sapphira in the New Testament struck dead by the Holy Spirit Himself. .

Saul Lost his throne, not his salvation. If he had lost his salvation, David would have killed him when he had the chance several times. But because he knew he was still under God's anointing despite his sin, David spared.

1 Samuel 24:6 (KJV)
And he said unto his men, The L ORD forbid that I should do this thing unto my master, the L ORD 's anointed, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the anointed of the L ORD .

Judas was never saved because he never believed in Jesus from day one. Even Jesus said it.

John 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Jesus didn't say he became a devil. He simoly said he's a devil. Even the entire chapter showed Jesus talking about some of his followers who didn't believe in him and the one who should betray him.

John 6:64 (KJV)
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Annanuas and Saphira is not a case of lost salvation. It is a case of punishment for lying, same way we get punished for other things. Nowhere does the Bible say they lost their salvation.

pressplay411:

We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. We are to guard our salvation with all diligence..

Paul was not saying we should save ourselves. If we could save ourselves, why did Jesus die? Read the passage well.

Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV)
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Simple, Paul was saying we should show the salvation God has put in us. It's the same as God giving us muscles. When we Gym aka work out, the muscles become pronounced such that people admire us and even start hitting the gym too. God has saved us and now wants us to work out that salvation so others too will by that come to him.

To show your flawed understanding, below is Paul clearly stating that salvation is not of WORKS but by Grace through faith in Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

pressplay411:

Christ never said we're saved for ever just for believing in him, for demons do too but are not saved. He said, if we love him, we should keep his commands. He said, if judgement comes, will He find Faith? He said people will stray away from the Faith, unbelief will spread even among believers who will fall for false prophets..

You just called God a liar, and I will prove it to you.

How dare you say Jesus never said we are saved forever? First and foremost, what does eternal life mean? It means life never ending. What did Jesus say will happen to those who believe in him?

John 3:16 (KJV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


As seen above, Jesus said if we believe in him, we will have eternal life. Even the book of John says those that believe have eternal life. It doesn't say we will get the eternal life after we die. It says we have it already and it's in our spirit.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Now, if believe leads to salvation which gives eternal life, how come you say eternal life can be lost? If it can be lost, then was it ever eternal or never ending?

You have called God a liar by saying he didn't give us eternal life through his Son Jesus. You have denied the record he gave of his son.

1 John 5:10-11
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Did you see the bolded part? It says God has given us eternal life for believing in his son. It means we can't lose it otherwise it will mean it was never eternal.

pressplay411:

Even Apostle Paul never said Grace saves anyone for ever because even He said He was fighting the good fight of Faith, to take hold of eternal life..

You are misquoting Paul. The Paul I know said it is Grace that saves not our works.

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

pressplay411:

The precuous blood of Jesus saves all who believe in Christ from being unbelievers and from living a disconnected life from God. Truly Christ refers to unbelievers as the dead, because to be carnal is death.- 1st stage of Salvation..

You are simply saying the blood of Jesus is not enough to save man once and for all and that man has to contribute his own quota. Look at how you belittled the blood of Jesus.

pressplay411:

Discipleship; Learning of Christ. Obedience and Faith in the Words of Christ keeps us Saved. We start growing in the Likeness of Christ, bearing His Fruit and His Nature. We start doing greater works like Christ did winning souls, healing the sick, casting out demons, finding our place in ministry and establishing God's Kingdom on earth etc- 2nd Stage of Salvation..

@bold

It is the Grace of Jesus that keeps us saved, not our works of righteousness which God sees as filthy rags.

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

pressplay411:

When we die or are raptured, would we still be doing the works of Christ, keeping our Faith even in the face of Death- Final stage of Salvation.

I'll advice everyone reading this to please flee from Pentecostal Churches which are devil's houses. Flee from any church that preaches Works Based Salvation e.g RCCG, Winners, Deeper Life etc and go find a Once Saved Always Saved Church e.g Baptist. Do that now before it's too late.

Continuing in the believe that you can lose your salvation is the same as saying you are trying to save yourself. It simply means you are not trusting in Jesus, instead you are relying on your own works. It means you don't believe in Jesus but yourself. The people below did the works but Jesus saud he never knew them. Note, he didn't say he use to know them. He never knew them despite then doing wonderful works, because they didn't do his father's will.

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Now what is the will of the Father Jesus said they didn't do?


John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


Those people didn't do the above will because they were depending on their works to save them instead of simply believing in Jesus.

6 Likes 1 Share

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by alBHAGDADI: 9:44pm On May 11
Yinyeon:
I believe once saved, always saved. It's Biblically sound to do so.
You are beautiful.
I'll like to meet you.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Righteousness89: 9:45pm On May 11
Yinyeon:


A true Christian would never see it as one.
He who abuses the grace of God isn't truly saved.

You Right! But it's what we see today.
You see someone who claims to be Saved and yet the character and attitude speaks otherwise...
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by shadeyinka(m): 9:47pm On May 11
Yinyeon:


I guess we do have points where we disagree.

Everything that happens in our life is in accordance with the will of God although we are given free will of choice.
Everything?

Who decides if you will love God or Hate Him?
Who decides if we'll say the truth or s lie?

Who decides if our car will have an accident or not?
Who decides if we'll be sick or not?

Who decides if a rapist will rape an innocent girl or not?
Who decides if the innocent girl will catch HIV or not?


I have given several DIFFERENT instances of events in a man's life, look at each in relation to Gods will and then conclude if everything is indeed predestined by God.

The question is, What really is God's will?
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by shadeyinka(m): 9:59pm On May 11
jesusjnr:
Bros. I dey with you.

Don't mind those that rather want to believe what they want to believe.

Jesus said to those church folks that believed that once saved always saved that they should depart from him, all workers of iniquity.

And Jesus wasn't talking about church folks from mars but those present here on Earth, and even many here on Nairaland who think that just by saying Jesus is Lord and by doing mighty works in His name guarantees their salvation.

So let's keep making them know the Truth, so that even if they ignore it, it wouldn't be that no one told them this.

Thanks bro and God bless you!
I think you are hearing a different thing from what is being said.
1. We are saved by grace trough faith
(Not by works, so that no one should boast)
2. Our salvation isn't an after thought by God. Before the foundation of the world (the lamb of God had been prepared). Hence to whom God has FOREKNOWN, He PREDESTINED to conform to the image of His dear son
3. If a man claim BORN again and He is NOT a new CREATION, such was NEVER saved in the First Place.
4. Whoever is TRULY saved is given the Holy Spirit as a SEAL until the day of redemption. The Holy Spirit in a person Produces a FRUIT of Righteousness.
5. Of a person delights in SIN, such has never been Born Again. He is going to Hell irrespective of how convincing he is as a Christian.

Anyone who justifies SIN is a child of satan and is NEVER sealed nor redeemed by His Blood.


If there is anything you refute here, let me know

The difference between a Wheat and Tare is the Fruit/Seed. If a Tare plant was was supernaturally TRANSFORMED into Wheat plant, it is natural for the wheat plant to fruit and produce seeds. Some 100s, some 60s ....and some even 10s. But there is something for the Husbandman to harvest. Note, the only visible Difference between a wheat and Tare is lack of or presence of seeds. However, the true determinant is the DNA of each.

I know you worry about people who claim to be born again but are synagogues of satan. God would do the harvesting. Even the angels vwere prevented from doing this delicate work peradventure they would accidentally uproot a single wheat

2 Likes

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 10:05pm On May 11
alBHAGDADI:


You are beautiful.

I'll like to meet you.

It'd be a honour to meet a Christian Apologist, although that'd only be possible if you reside in Delta State.

Thank you for the flattering compliment.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 10:08pm On May 11
Righteousness89:


You Right! But it's what we see today.
You see someone who claims to be Saved and yet the character and attitude speaks otherwise...

You've said it all, they are false Christians.

This is where " By their fruits you shall know them " comes into play.

1 Like

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by pressplay411(m): 10:11pm On May 11
You do well coming in to Christ.
But since some person(s) helped to win your soul, have you likewise been sharing the gospel to win souls?
If you're grateful for your salvation and you're seeing results of God's workings in your life, should you not share this good news to others?

It becomes a challenge to win souls, if your soul is not truly saved. If you do not have the joy of salvation, how can you have good news to share?

But if, truly you have encountered the saving Grace of Christ, you have experienced the healing Power of God, you have been transformed from an Old nature into a New Creation, oh you can't sit still.
You will announce it on the roof tops if given the opportunity!

Salvation is personal and collective. Your personal Salvation is for the benefit of the World and the Saints.
Unbelievers need to hear your evangelism.
The Body of Christ needs to hear you prophesy the goodness, mercies and mysteries of Christ.

You are not saved to become a bench-warmer or a lone ranger. You're not saved to continue to do things your own way.
You're saved to save others.
You're saved to be discipled into Christ's nature and stature, being equipped under the Ministry gifts; Apostles, Pastors, Prophets, Evangelists and Teachers.
You're saved to walk in Liberty- Fearless and Limitless. Faithful in God's Power in you. Becoming more Loving and Meek. An expression and testimony of the glory of God, establishing God's kingdom on earth as it is in heaven.

1 Like

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by mployer(m): 10:17pm On May 11
jesusjnr:
One of the greatest lies ever told!

Proof:

1 Samuel 13:13-14 (KJV)

13 And Samuel said to Saul, Thou hast done foolishly: thou hast not kept the commandment of the LORD thy God, which he commanded thee: for now would the LORD have established thy kingdom upon Israel for ever.
14 But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that which the LORD commanded thee.

1 Samuel 15:22-23, 26 (KJV)

22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.

1 Samuel 16:14 (KJV)

14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

David was God's chosen king not Saul. Saul came as a result of pressure from the people of Isreal to have a king.

Saul was an appointed king while David was a raised king. God raises kings, he doesn't appoint.

Saul wasn't God's perfect will. He was destined to fail if you carefully consider the process that brought him in.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by alBHAGDADI: 10:19pm On May 11
Yinyeon:


It'd be a honour to meet a Christian Apologist, although that'd only be possible if you reside in Delta State.

Thank you for the flattering compliment.

We can chat on WhatsApp.

kindly send me your number to my email seen in my signature. Please let me know when you do
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 10:20pm On May 11
shadeyinka:

Everything?

Who decides if you will love God or Hate Him?
Who decides if we'll say the truth or s lie?

Who decides if our car will have an accident or not?
Who decides if we'll be sick or not?

Who decides if a rapist will rape an innocent girl or not?
Who decides if the innocent girl will catch HIV or not?


I have given several DIFFERENT instances of events in a man's life, look at each in relation to Gods will and then conclude if everything is indeed predestined by God.

The question is, What really is God's will?


Choice, but still it doesn't exit the will of God.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by shadeyinka(m): 10:22pm On May 11
pressplay411:
You do well coming in to Christ.
But since some person(s) helped to win your soul, have you likewise been sharing the gospel to win souls?
If you're grateful for your salvation and you're seeing results of God's workings in your life, should you not share this good news to others?

It becomes a challenge to win souls, if your soul is not truly saved. If you do not have the joy of salvation, how can you have good news to share?

But if, truly you have encountered the saving Grace of Christ, you have experienced the healing Power of God, you have been transformed from an Old nature into a New Creation, oh you can't sit still.
You will announce it on the roof tops if given the opportunity!

Salvation is personal and collective. Your personal Salvation is for the benefit of the World and the Saints.
Unbelievers need to hear your evangelism.
The Body of Christ needs to hear you prophesy the goodness, mercies and mysteries of Christ.

You are not saved to become a bench-warmer or a lone ranger. You're not saved to continue to do things your own way.
You're saved to save others.
You're saved to be discipled into Christ's nature and stature, being equipped under the Ministry gifts; Apostles, Pastors, Prophets, Evangelists and Teachers.
You're saved to walk in Liberty- Fearless and Limitless. Faithful in God's Power in you. Becoming more Loving and Meek. An expression and testimony of the glory of God, establishing God's kingdom on earth as it is in heaven.
I wish you respond to my last posts. It will slow you down a little to analyze the scriptures and see what it is really saying
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 10:25pm On May 11
alBHAGDADI:


We can chat on WhatsApp.

kindly send me your number to my email seen in my signature. Please let me know when you do

Sure, I've done that.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by pressplay411(m): 10:26pm On May 11
shadeyinka:

I think you are hearing a different thing from what is being said.
1. We are saved by grace trough faith
(Not by works, so that no one should boast)
2. Our salvation isn't an after thought by God. Before the foundation of the world (the lamb of God had been prepared). Hence to whom God has FOREKNOWN, He PREDESTINED to conform to the image of His dear son
3. If a man claim BORN again and He is NOT a new CREATION, such was NEVER saved in the First Place.
4. Whoever is TRULY saved is given the Holy Spirit as a SEAL until the day of redemption. The Holy Spirit in a person Produces a FRUIT of Righteousness.
5. Of a person delights in SIN, such has never been Born Again. He is going to Hell irrespective of how convincing he is as a Christian.

Anyone who justifies SIN is a child of satan and is NEVER sealed nor redeemed by His Blood.


If there is anything you refute here, let me know
We're saying almost the same thing.
Your point is simply not all who call themselves Christians are truly born again, hence not all who think they're saved are saved.
Anyone who is truly born again, truly repentant is saved and can't lose His salvation. Right?

This too is contestable scripturally. One can truly repent from sin yet iniquity such as pride, mammon, sexual immorality, false revelations and false doctrines, even frustration can lead him to lose his belief and go astray.
That's why the scriptures exhorts us to flee from every appearance of evil-1 Thessalonians 5:22.
It's because we truly have to guard our salvation by putting on the full armour of faith. Ephesians 6:10-18

1 Like

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by shadeyinka(m): 10:27pm On May 11
Yinyeon:


Choice, but still it doesn't exit the will of God.
I had divided the incidences into three groups
1. Where our will/Volition is involved
2. Where external but natural occurrence is involved
3. Where the will of a third party affects an individual

The Question is,
Are the occurrences all at the instance(will ) of God?
The second question was:
What then is God's will?
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by pressplay411(m): 10:32pm On May 11
shadeyinka:

I had divided the incidences into three groups
1. Where our will/Volition is involved
2. Where external but natural occurrence is involved
3. Where the will of a third party affects an individual

The Question is,
Are the occurrences all at the instance(will ) of God?
The second question was:
What then is God's will?

God's will is to give you the free will to choose Him over Sin out of Love. To choose Heaven over Hell. Why will he force you to heaven by believing in Christ? What if you changed your mind that you don't want heaven and you don't want to believe anymore? Is it still your free will?

1 Like 1 Share

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 10:43pm On May 11
shadeyinka:

I had divided the incidences into three groups
1. Where our will/Volition is involved
2. Where external but natural occurrence is involved
3. Where the will of a third party affects an individual

The Question is,
Are the occurrences all at the instance(will ) of God?
The second question was:
What then is God's will?

However do you intend to know the definition of God's Will except biblically.
If you do, enlighten me, I'd love to know more than anything.

For I know only of the Sovereign Will of God; which I talked about earlier and His Will of Command.

1 Like

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 10:46pm On May 11
pressplay411:


God's will is to give you the free will to choose Him over Sin out of Love. To choose Heaven over Hell. Why will he force you to heaven by believing in Christ? What if you changed your mind that you don't want heaven and you don't want to believe anymore? Is it still your free will?

We never choose God, he chooses Us.

Without God saving us, we'd never go to him because of how much we love the bliss the world has to offer.

1 Like

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by jesusjnr(m): 10:48pm On May 11
mployer:


David was God's chosen king not Saul. Saul came as a result of pressure from the people of Isreal to have a king.

Saul was an appointed king while David was a raised king. God raises kings, he doesn't appoint.

Saul wasn't God's perfect will. He was destined to fail if you carefully consider the process that brought him in.

Lol!

You're just trying to make excuses even though the lies you posited as the truth has been hence destroyed.

Go and read the texts very well and you'd see that it was very clear that Saul was chosen by God, and anointed by God, and later rejected by God as was confirmed by the departure of the Spirit of God from him.

For the only reason he was rejected was because of disobedience, if not his kingdom would have been established by God as Samuel said.

So the callings and gifts of God are not without repentance for if you start being disobedient to God, you would lose it.

And some church leaders have shown this to be true, I know a man that was very powerful and was raising the dead, but then he lost focus as money became instead his god in the stead of God who had given him such powers.

And the works stopped and he could no longer do what he used to do because the Spirit of God had departed from him.

So do not be deceived oh, for you can lose whatever gifts that God gives with disobedience of His Word just like man did in the beginning, for man had eternal life but he lost it via disobedience.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by shadeyinka(m): 10:49pm On May 11
pressplay411:

We're saying almost the same thing.
Your point is simply not all who call themselves Christians are truly born again, hence not all who think they're saved are saved.
Anyone who is truly born again, truly repentant is saved and can't lose His salvation. Right?

This too is contestable scripturally. One can truly repent from sin and iniquity such pride, mammon, sexual immorality, false revelations and false doctrines, even frustration can lead him to lose his belief and go astray.
That's why the scriptures exhorts us to flee from every appearance of evil-1 Thessalonians 5:22.
It's because we truly have to guard our salvation by putting on the full armour of faith. Ephesians 6:10-18
I guess you should try and read these old posts of mine and we can talk later. Please do read them


https://www.nairaland.com/3203455/concept-born-again-simplified

https://www.nairaland.com/3423081/real-fake-student-university-heaven

https://www.nairaland.com/3436394/how-improve-spiritual-cgpa

They simplify /augment our understanding of the massiveness of what Christ did for us on the cross.

If anyone looses his salvation, it is impossible to restore such a person.

Heb 6:4-6:
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and And have tasted the good word of God , and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance ; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

The Question is, how many times of sin does it take a person to loose his salvation?


Let me quote my post so that you can answer the questions again: based on Romans 8:

shadeyinka:


Let's look at a scripture together:
Rom 8:29-30:
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

This scripture is specifically about salvation of the saints:

I will ask a few questions!
1. What is Gods foreknowledge?
2. What is Predestination according to the scripture above?
3. Can Gods foreknowledge Fail?
4. If your answer to 3 is NO, if God predestined a person, can it be in error?
5. Isn't it possible that person could assume he is born again but is not known by God NOR predestined by God?

A person who assumed he is born again is NOT a new creation, Old things has NOT not passed away. He may look like born again, be a pastor, sing in choir etc. By their fruit you shall know them


But sincerely answer the questions posted
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 10:51pm On May 11
pressplay411:


God's will is to give you the free will to choose Him over Sin out of Love. To choose Heaven over Hell. Why will he force you to heaven by believing in Christ? What if you changed your mind that you don't want heaven and you don't want to believe anymore? Is it still your free will?

The Christian race is not all rosy, it's difficult with different temptations everywhere but God will see His children through.

Sometimes, terrible ideas can fill our head but acting on them and relying on them is where the problems arise.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by shadeyinka(m): 10:57pm On May 11
pressplay411:


God's will is to give you the free will to choose Him over Sin out of Love. To choose Heaven over Hell. Why will he force you to heaven by believing in Christ? What if you changed your mind that you don't want heaven and you don't want to believe anymore? Is it still your free will?
The context of my post is different from this. I was addressing @Yinyeon

Ask yourself the Question:
Has it ever occured to you to disown your biological parent?
Do you think you will ever do so?

If anyone is truly Gods child, why would he want darkness rather than light. Except if he was never of God from the beginning.

However, if a person should for any reason loose his salvation, he is past repentance!

Do you agree with this?
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by jesusjnr(m): 11:07pm On May 11
pressplay411:


God's will is to give you the free will to choose Him over Sin out of Love. To choose Heaven over Hell. Why will he force you to heaven by believing in Christ? What if you changed your mind that you don't want heaven and you don't want to believe anymore? Is it still your free will?
Spot on!

1 Like

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by mployer(m): 11:08pm On May 11
jesusjnr:
Lol!

You're just trying to make excuses even though the lies you posited as the truth has been destroyed.

Go and read the texts very well and you'd see that it was very clear that Saul was chosen by God, and anointed by God, and later rejected by God as was confirmed by the departure of the Spirit of God from him.

For the only reason he was rejected was because of disobedience, if not his kingdom would have been established by God as Samuel said.

So the callings and gifts of God are not without repentance for if you start being disobedient to God, you would lose it.

And some church leaders have shown this to be true, I know a man that was very powerful and was raising the dead, but then he lost focus as money became instead his god in the stead of God who had given him such powers.

And the works stopped and he could no longer do what he used to do because the Spirit of God had departed from him.

So do not be deceived oh, for you can lose whatever gifts that God gives with disobedience of His Word just like man did in the beginning, for man had eternal life but he lost it via disobedience.

I don't know how to explain this to you. It wasn't time for God to give Isreal a king. They pressured him so he gave them Saul. God has not obligation to protect what he didn't start. It is in His character. Saul was just unfortunate. His kingship process wasn't started by God but by the people of Israel.

Even David disobeyed God on several occasions but his case was treated differently, because he has the true call of God on him and there is no repentance on it.

The Bible cannot lie bro.

Read Romans 11:29
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by shadeyinka(m): 11:12pm On May 11
Yinyeon:


However do you intend to know the definition of God's Will except biblically.
If you do, enlighten me, I'd love to know more than anything.

For I know only of the Sovereign Will of God; which I talked about earlier and His Will of Command.
God's will is simply Gods desire!
God's will is what God wants from His creations!
E.g. Gods will that mankind would be saved through Christ.

The second kind of God's will is Predestination!

Predestination is God "Programming" his creation to do or be something unconditionally and irrevocably.

#The earth was programmed (predestined) to revolve round the sun in 365.25 days.
#A girl grows to be a Woman and is given a womb to carry a baby
#Paradise for those whose name are in the book of life

However,
It isn't everything that God WILLs nor PREDESTINs.

So, back to my questions..

shadeyinka:

I had divided the incidences into three groups
1. Where our will/Volition is involved
2. Where external but natural occurrence is involved
3. Where the will of a third party affects an individual

The Question is,
Are the occurrences all at the instance(will ) of God?
The second question was:
What then is God's will?
The leading post:

shadeyinka:

Everything?

Who decides if you will love God or Hate Him?
Who decides if we'll say the truth or s lie?

Who decides if our car will have an accident or not?
Who decides if we'll be sick or not?

Who decides if a rapist will rape an innocent girl or not?
Who decides if the innocent girl will catch HIV or not?


I have given several DIFFERENT instances of events in a man's life, look at each in relation to Gods will and then conclude if everything is indeed predestined by God.

The question is, What really is God's will?

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by jesusjnr(m): 11:26pm On May 11
mployer:


I don't know how to explain this to you. It wasn't time for God to give Isreal a king. They pressured him so he gave them Saul. God has not obligation to protect what he didn't start. It is in His character. Saul was just unfortunate. His kingship process wasn't started by God but by the people of Israel.

Even David disobeyed God on several occasions but his case was treated differently, because he has the true call of God on him and there is no repentance on it.

There's absolutely nothing to explain for Saul would have remained king of Israel if he had obeyed God as Samuel had said, or do you still doubt this, or feel that Samuel didn't know what he was talking about when he said that?

And your opinion that David's case was treated differently or that David was favored etc., is a common one no doubt among those of the church, but this was what God Himself said concerning David and why He established his kingdom even the Truth:

1 Kings 3:14 (KJV)

14 And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.

So the reason that God established David's kingdom was because he had done what Saul hadn't done which is to be obedient to God.

Yeah I know David made a mistake or two, but that was the exception for God doesn't judge a man by the exception of his life but the rule, and the rule for Saul was disobedience, hence his rejection by God.

So the gifts and callings of God are truly with repentance but you can choose to believe what you want.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by jesusjnr(m): 11:35pm On May 11
Yinyeon:


Choice, but still it doesn't exit the will of God.
Sorry but in case you needed to know what the Will of God is, this is it:

Matthew 18:14 (KJV)

Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

It is the Will of God that no one perishes, but still people perish for a reason.

Be careful what you choose to believe because only the 'Way" to the "Truth" can lead you to the eternal "Life".
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by jaysport: 3:51am On May 12
Titus 2:11-13........this has been my definition of grace..and will ever be...not by any psstor no matter d anointing, but by personal studies and with the help of the Holy Ghost

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