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Stats: 2,257,590 members, 4,938,684 topics. Date: Thursday, 23 May 2019 at 03:55 AM
Is It Right To Be A Christian And Join Secret Society?; Pastor Shares Photos / "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" / Female Jehovah's Witness Knocks At Man's House, He Opens The Door While Unclad (2) (3) (4)
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 1:18pm On May 15|
shadeyinka:Of course there are names of REAL persons and groups mentioned in the book of Revelations but regarding the grasping of the sacred secrets revealed in the book,we must know the meaning of the symbols!
I personally don't have any question for you as a person because all that you believe are what i've heard several times from different individuals in my ministry. My questions will center on various religious groups claiming Christians with their contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines!
But since you never hold onto any of them as a member, there is no way you'll be able to address my questions.
That's why i love the way we're both dealing with each other as independent believers!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 1:39pm On May 15|
Maximus69:If I tell you my church denomination would you be more able to ask questions? I attend the Evangelical Church Winning All (ECWA) very much like Baptist church or United Missionary Church in Africa (UMCA). But like I said, church doctrines don't define me: it's my understanding of the scriptures that define me. I am very comfortable with various church denominations if they hold the Centrality of Christ, Salvation by Atonement by His Blood and the basic Christian Creed. There is no denomination in paradise (for God Himself is our Temple). Most denomination will have people in paradise except if their core foundation is wrong.
Do I proceed with my final set of questions?
After that, I will entertain all your questions and the thread can be made open to the public for edification.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by alBHAGDADI: 1:57pm On May 15|
Oh, I can't wait for this part.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 2:56pm On May 15|
shadeyinka:You've said it all!
The religious gathering you associate with means just a gathering to you so my question will be of no use. Since what you believe could differ from what your denomination teaches!
I'm not interested in crowds so if you're tired of the one on one discuss i'll just switch off, i will not entertain Barbarians who have no self control the way we've both displayed it!
I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and i believe in group worship, i strongly believe there is no way those following blind guides can get to Paradise[ Matthew 15:14] which means one must belong to the right group amongst whom we can get life saving spiritual food! Hebrew 10:24-25,13:7
Well i will redirect my questions and center on doctrinal issues.
So my first question:
(1) What do you think about thousands of religious groups all claiming Christians yet holding contradicting doctrines and conflicting teachings?
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 3:47pm On May 15|
Maximus69:Oh no! Untill we conclude our discussion before anyone can come into this thread. Since it is also for the edification of the readers, they can contribute or ask questions. But for now, it's strictly between us.
Now to your Question:
The major reason why there are so many doctrinal differences is because of
1. Christians elevating a spiritual Gift, revelation or inspiration above another
Example: someone elevating Faith and Prosperity above Righteous living and vice versa. Some elevating Service to God above others etc.
The church had to be corrected by John when he said ... Faith without works is dead.
But as Christians, we are required to regard the scriptures and it's truth equally without specialising in one aspect over another.
2. Difference in understanding or comprehension of scriptural truths
Example: Some feel that jewellery and ornament are detrimental to faith, some feel music should be done without musical instruments etc
The Thessalonian church had that problem when they miss understood the teaching on the second comming of Christ. They felt that why should they continue to work when everything would be destroyed. Paul had to caution them with the epistle to the Thessalonians.
The church of Christ is growing slowly..but surely until we attain the perfection expected of us in Christ Jesus
"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
The Church of Christ is not yet perfectly perfect in the Earth
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 5:12pm On May 15|
Well that's a nice one!
Though i have a contrary opinion on that with scriptural backings because as you've said each church have what they made their priority!
¤So why is it that so called Christians churches still finds it hard and almost impossible to unite their followers of different races?
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 5:44pm On May 15|
Yes, many churches specialize/ put emphasis on some aspects of faith. This isnt correct, but it happens all the time. Like my local church invests a lot in rural/village evangelism and some other churches urban evangelism.
I don't understand you?
Christians finding it hard to unite with their followers of Different race? You mean like an American Baptist not uniting with a Nigerian Baptist?
Perhaps you need to rephrase your question.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 6:10pm On May 15|
shadeyinka:According to Jesus, his followers should be like brothers and sisters no matter where they may come from. But i see so many of my colleagues from the same church killing themselves due to racial dispute or political ambitions.
What do you think Jesus will do if he sees his followers aiming guns towards one another because of RACISM?
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 6:19pm On May 15|
Maximus69:I wish you have sited a few examples.
I don't know of racism within denominations. Like when have you heard that any of the Christian church fought with your denomination? You will do excellently well with a few examples of RCCG fighting with DCLM and ECWA fighting Catholics etc. Otherwise, it's just an unfounded speculation and actually very untrue.
Or is it American Christians fighting French and Nigerian Christians. I don't know where you got that from.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 7:47pm On May 15|
You're not getting my point!
Let me expatiate on it.
You will see soldiers[military officers] claiming Christians in virtually all religious groups you're referring to as denominations.
There job is to defend their country and fight there wars.
Now if a ECWA member from Nigeria and another from Ghana are both serving in the military, and the politicians in Nigeria have a dispute with Ghanaian politicians, they will send soldiers to fight on their behalf, then a follower of Christ[ECWA member serving as a soldier] from Nigeria will lift up weapons against a follower of Christ[ECWA member serving as a soldier] from Ghana. Whereas both of them are supposed to be brothers in Christ!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 7:54pm On May 15|
Maximus69:What an illustration?
If I may ask you a question!
Is self defence permitted according to your theology?
Let me put it in form of a question.
A rapist comes into your house with a knife to assault your sister at night. You have a pestle at hand, what will you do as a Christ follower to protect your sister/family?
Will you first ask that assailant whether he is a follower of Christ like you first or attack him before he damages your sister?
If the rapist happens to die in your hand from your defence, is his blood upon your head and have you commited murder?
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 8:09pm On May 15|
This is not an illustration please it is happening throughout the earth, while those claiming brothers in Christ are raising weapons against one another and KILLING one another!
Well to answer your question: The prophecy about the Messiah[Christ] reveals that when people starts observing his commandment, they will no more raise weapons against one another! Isaiah 2:2-4, Micah 4:1-3
That is why Jesus commanded us NOT to make us of weapons for any reason whatsoever!
Regarding self defence, that was Peter's intentions when Jesus rebuked him for raising up a weapon! Matthew 26:52
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 8:12pm On May 15|
Maximus69:I wish you slow down to answer my questions before spewing out premeditated response to a question you've not answered
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 8:16pm On May 15|
shadeyinka:You've edited your question!
Well the only thing we do as Christians is to live a lesser materialistic life and avoid calling attention to ourselves through dressing and grooming.
As a Christian, i must make sure that life is not lost due to my actions or reactions because God will judge all evildoers. The best i could do is to call the authorities who are serving as judges in this system of things but life MUST NOT BE LOST all because i'm defending what is not permanent! Exodus 14:14 compared to Matthew 6:19-21
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 8:25pm On May 15|
I found an interesting read. You may check it out
I hope you know that less than 0.1% of people who go to church are in the army. But you have generalized as if Christians kill each other.
Acts 10:22: "And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, [/b]and one that [b] feareth God , and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by a holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee."
But if self defense is permitted by God, let every one act according to the level of his faith.
But, being in the army isn't s criterion for knowing who s believer is or not. I am not s military man yet, it doesn't make me more better a Christian.
or is it a yardstick?
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 8:35pm On May 15|
shadeyinka:I thought we're sharing ideas based on what you and i PERSONALLY believes, and that we can explain without calling upon a third party!
Please i don't buy the idea of bringing in ideas from other sources apart from what is WRITTEN in the Bible and how well we can present a practical application of it!
But if you buy such ideas, then you can digest it and present it along with scriptural backings since we're sharing thoughts BASED ON OUR RESOLVE on the inspire word of God, NOT on what someone else thinks!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 8:38pm On May 15|
I didn't mention any name as agreed. And I thought I was tactful in presenting the link as "an interesting read". It could have been from Wikipedia or any other source. Ok! I won't bring up links again.
So, how about my thoughts?
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 8:50pm On May 15|
shadeyinka:You've edited this one again!
Well Cornelius served in the military before he started studying Christianity. Note that Jesus said his followers should PREACH [presentations of what God's kingdom will bring] and TEACH [ all what Jesus said can hinder us from qualifying]
Cornelius must have been taught what Jesus said at Matthew 26:52 and resigned as a soldier during the time Christians like the Apostles needed someone like him to DEFEND them so that they will not be killed as Martyrs!
Remember none of them did anything worth been sentenced to death for!
Well Jesus is the only begotten son of God as i believe, and if he did not defend himself but kept running away till they trapped him, i think it's best i too keep running away from evil people and avoiding any dealings with them until God says my time is up! Matthew 10:23
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 10:00pm On May 15|
Maximus69:It wasn't a deliberate editing of posts. My internet link is bad today. Keeps going on and off. Hence I quickly send when up and edit after.
Sometimes it is impossible to run.
I think everyone need to act according to the level of his faith to the best of his ability while obeying the scriptures. One thing we should also know is that God set up authority/government. Sometimes, government need to operate with force.
"For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty."
#£#It looks like the problem bis from Nairaland website. I've not been able to post for more than 20 minutes now.
I just discovered it's my browser. Sorry for the delay! It would work for every other websites except Nairaland. I rebooted and the issue seems resolved.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 11:10pm On May 15|
shadeyinka:OK then let's chat tomorrow.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 5:16am On May 16|
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by alBHAGDADI: 8:16am On May 16|
Stop being shady. It's pretty obvious that everything you are saying are exactly the believes of the Jehovah's witnesses and not just your personal believe. Don't think people are fools. We know you guys too well
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by alBHAGDADI: 8:19am On May 16|
Jehovah's witnesses and their habit of always putting words into the Bible. @bold Where is it written that Cornelius resigned as a soldier?
If you can't find it, then it means you lied against the Bible.
You are talking about Mathew 26:52, have you forgotten that Jesus okayed the use if sword?
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it , and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end
And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
Same Jesus that okayed self defense for the children of Israel is the same Jesus today.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 8:39am On May 16|
alBHAGDADI:Please can you hold on comments/input until our private communication is completed.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by alBHAGDADI: 9:00am On May 16|
Dude will flee when that time comes.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 9:00am On May 16|
shadeyinka:Good morning Sir, how was your night? Over here in my area it's cold due to the midnight showers[rain] of blessings from God!
At 1Timothy 2:2 Paul says we should continuously pray because of those in authority so that we may continue our preaching and teaching program without hindrance.
¤Jesus ran away when the Jews were determined to make him their ruler[John 6:15] as they could sense that all the prophecies about the Messiah who was the foretold King fulfilled in the life and ministry of Jesus! John 6:14
¤Jesus said the ruler of the world is Satan the devil, [John 14:30]so he refused to take any part in the world political affairs of his time knowing fully well that whoever partakes in it is serving under Satan! [Luke 4:6]
Bur why did Paul say we should pray because of the politicians handling the affairs?
Well Satan is the overall ruler of the world[1John 5:19] and he is a genius in manipulating things, he knows perfectly how to carry people along with his intentions[Ephesians 2:2] and his target is stopping those carrying the good news of God's Kingdom!
So most people will be easily carried away with human traditions [ Mark 9:7-13] and at the end when Satan has succeeded in brainwashing the majority he will make them see true Christians as a threat to their culture [Act 24:1-5] then the misinformed politicians who needed the support of his people to remain in power will become the instrument to be used against us! Act 24:27
Our prayer is for the rulers to be wiser in cases brought before them so that they won't be fighting against God out of pressure from those blinded by Satan to exterminate us! Act 5:34-39
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 9:10am On May 16|
shadeyinka:We're used to such senseless interference from noisemakers in the ministry. We just ignore them and concentrate on the person with whom we're having a one on one conversation!
During the first century, such miscreants will deliberately attack us but thanks to Jehovah for allowing America to enforce the bill of FREEDOM of speech, expression and worship. So let him continue to express himself after all he is free, it's just that silent is the best answer for such unwarranted interference!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 10:17am On May 16|
shadeyinka:You said your believes are TOTALLY independent of any religious group.
I assumed that our discussion will STRICTLY base on what you and i PERSONLLY resolved after reading, studying, meditating on what we read in the Bible and concluding after correlating that with all other ideas we've gathered from external sources to arrive at a conclusion of our own! It's of no sense REDIRECTING each other to any external source, it will rather make sense if you and i could rephrase whatever we've gotten,summarizing everything and making it our own personal resolve since we've fully understood such concept so that we present it with efficacy!
Regarding SELF DEFENCE!
Majority of killings,wars and terrorist acts all emanated from thoughts of SELF DEFENCE.
Muhammad who initiated Islam never started with swords, he was preaching and teaching people about PEACE under one God, his people have never heard such ideas so everyone ignored him, he was just a servant of a wealthy female merchant and everyone laughs at his ideas, he gathered what he was preaching from Jerusalem and Rome during business trips with his lady boss.
The first set of adherents to accept his teachings were slaves who feels it's a way to escape cruelty of their masters, Muhammad told the slaves 'you're slaves to no one but God', the slave welcomed his ideas but how are they going to break free from their masters?
Muhammad taught them to leave their masters and follow him, the slave masters thought Muhammad is trickishly stealing their properties[slaves] so they went to get their slaves back, Muhammad taught the slaves to DEFEND THEMSELVES. So that was how the Jihad began!
Later after Muhammad has gained so many slaves whom he treats like equals to himself, many sincere individuals were wooed with his seeming kindness and they became Muslims. But whoever speaks against Muhammad is seen as an enemy of righteousness so his followers gradually forgot that their swords is NOT to ATTACK people but to DEFEND themselves. They will also go to AVENGE the death of fellow Muslims who were killed during the fighting over ownership of the slaves!
Today the so called peaceful religion is known for all acts of terrorism globally simply because no Muslim will take it lightly if you insult Muhammad. So what was meant to be for DEFENCE has turned to become a tool for ATTACK and REVENGE!
KNOWLEDGE is defined as :the accumulation of useful informations!
WISDOM is defined as :the practical application of accumulated info for lasting benefits!
Christianity is from Jehovah the all wise God. So WISDOM is evident in the teachings of Christ.
Whether you're thinking of DEFENCE, ATTACK or REVENGE the wisdom from above says DROP ALL WEAPONS FIRST!
If you don't want to be counted along with those disturbing the PEACE that the PRINCE is establishing!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 10:27am On May 16|
Maximus69:Jesus not taking part in any political affairs was His choice.
John 18:36: "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."
But that is not to say Jesus abhor political affairs after all He is a King in His own Kingdom and He has soldiers (servants) under Him.
Rev 12:7: "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"
Maximus69:1. Peter says as a command SUBMIT to leaders for they are God's instruments of punishing evil doers
1Pet 2:13-15: "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:"
The second reason is that we should leave in peace
"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
It is actually not a sign of spirituality to despise instituted government, for they are set up by God.
However, when it comes to the area of Christian Ministry, we are not to resist the evil people. The best you can do is to move to another city.
Jesus will never ask us to submit to submit to government if it is evil in the sight of God. Part of Governmenance is ENFORCEMENT through the force of ARMS!
Any other questions?
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 11:07am On May 16|
shadeyinka:Well if it is Jesus' PERSONAL CHOICE not to partake in worldly Governments or Political affairs and he discouraged a contemporary politician who wants to enter God's Kingdom, INSTRUCTING him to abandon his political career. Luke 18:18-23
I think i'll make Jesus' CHOICE my PERSONAL CHOICE too !
You may ask your question now!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 11:26am On May 16|
Maximus69:I think we all need to quote the scriptures in context.
Jesus didn't tell the young ruler to abandon any political career. Jesus spoke about his core problem: the Love of Money
else, to enter the kingdom of God requires us to be poor and this isn't the message of Christ.
Luk 18:18-27: "And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me . And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved? And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God."
So, you see, Jesus was speaking about the Love of Money
NOT about politics or political activities
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 11:56am On May 16|
I see your people preaching almost daily from house to house.
1. Is it really compusary to preach and teach the word of God?
2. What if my calling is not teaching.
3. Do you Preach and Teach because it's one of the signs a believer in Christ should have?
4. If a person doesn't preach regularly, could it be said that he doesn't have this sign of a believer?
I wish you answer these item by item (each number separately). Thanks
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