shadeyinka:

By now, you know I wouldn't insult your person nor your personality. I may not be so forgiving to your organisation though. That doesn't mean I will insult your organisation but I will speak my mind as Jesus spoke to the Pharisees.
As per my rules!
Only one:
Doctrinal positions must be in harmony with BOTH the scriptures and Logics. Any question could be asked!
And I will prefer full quotes from the scriptures rather than text links.
I have opened the discussion also to the public so that your people can ask questions from "those they consider as non Jehovah's witnesses" on this thread.

shadeyinka:

By now, you know I wouldn't insult your person nor your personality. I may not be so forgiving to your organisation though. That doesn't mean I will insult your organisation but I will speak my mind as Jesus spoke to the Pharisees.
As per my rules!
Only one:
Doctrinal positions must be in harmony with BOTH the scriptures and Logics. Any question could be asked!
And I will prefer full quotes from the scriptures rather than text links.
I have opened the discussion also to the public so that your people can ask questions from "those they consider as non Jehovah's witnesses" on this thread.

Maximus69:
Oh! Why did you suddenly change the topic of the thread without notifying me?
Well, it is not proper to change anything without the consent of your partner in the deal!
Remember we both agreed on terms and conditions before starting this so if you're going to change any thing, you supposed to carry me along!

shadeyinka2:
I have just been banned by Nairaland's Spam bots for my last post. I will edit the title whenever I come off the ban.


So, I created another Monika for this.
shadeyinka2

I have told seun to reprogram the algorithm the bots use to flag offenders but I guess he hasn't yet done it.

Maximus69:
Well, nobody hates Jesus or his disciples due to their personality, so insulting their personality makes no practical sense even before first century observers!
What those critics were opposed to is the TEACHINGS of Jesus which his followers continue to impress in the minds of people!
Jesus is the most handsome man ever because he was PERFECT just like Adam, no sane person will look straight at him to insult such good looking gentleman. But his TEACHINGS is the problem for people who have been blinded by human traditions!
As a Christian who abhors UNCHRISTIAN CHARACTERS, i don't entertain just anybody! I only chat, discuss or exchange messages with those having self restraint!

shadeyinka:


1Pet 3:15:
"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

The key is giving an answer to everyone who asks as with responsibility towards Christ!

Maximus69:
Can you see that it is to GIVE an ANSWER to those who ask us a reason of the hope that is in us while we do so with MEEKNESS and FEAR?
So the meekness and fear comes in because we're not to start arguing bitterly [Colossians 2:4] if the one asking is having another HOPE somewhere and trying to make us forget our own!
In that case we take our leave! Proverbs 17:14 compared to Matthew 10:13-14
True Christians do read, study and meditate on many scriptural texts PRAYERFULLY in order to arrive at a conclusion that could be explained through a comprehensive presentation based on the scriptures from Genesis to Revelations!

shadeyinka:

Do you want to start with your questions or you want me to start?

Maximus69:
@shadeyinka.
There are so many ideas that human tradition added to the WORDS written in the scriptures but when true Christians hear them speak of such things, we try to see if such an individual is ready to reason. But if not we hold our peace and walk away.
An instance is when you said 'the thief by the RIGHT hand side of Jesus' i won't start correcting that misconception unless you agree that i know better than you do! The scriptures never say it is the one at the right hand side or left hand side but that is human misconception there!
So if you truthfully want us to start taking issues up, that means we're going to do a lot of research by quoting scriptural texts to know if you and i could explain what was written including the symbols in each of Jesus' illustrations and Revelations!
That is how to ascertain if someone truly have the spirit of understanding to interpret the scriptures CORRECTLY [Daniel 12:9-10] and of course it is the one who knows the CORRECT interpretation that can know how to apply it WISELY! Genesis 41:38-41

shadeyinka:

"Thief on the right hand of Jesus!" was an error from me and they were my words not the scriptures. The bible never said which one of the two thieves said "remember me when you get to your Kingdom. It's just a confirmation that I am human.

But then, some people also force the bible to say what they feel like they want it to say like:

When you said: Jesus said 'all those who lived before John aren't yet certified for the Kingdom[everlasting life] but only those who have learnt how to beat all Satan's tactics from no other teacher but Master Jesus himself' Matthew 11:11

But Matt11:11 says differently

Mat 11:11: "Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

The bible spoke of "he who is least" in the kingdom of God being greater than John. If those are already IN, then they are already certified. Of course, even those are born of women hence the emphasis is on those in the kingdom of heaven.

Aren't yet certified means not yet qualified!

Maximus69:
I'm sure you have gone through the scriptures thoroughly to see if the favoured thief was on the right or left before coming out publicly to admit that what you said is wrong!
Well that is just one out of thousands of misconceptions false that religion inculcated in the minds of people, but NOT so WRITTEN in God's word!
And you've just expatiate on my INTERPRETATION of Matthew 11:11 Sir!
Of course neither John[the baptist] nor all others prior to him is YET QUALIFIED for God's kingdom!
It is meant for ONLY the 144,000 born again Christians FIRST, they are the first fruit {Revelations 14:13,20:6} and after them comes the great crowd that will live on earth as humans forever. Revelations 14:6 compared to Matthew 5:5, Psalms 37:29
These ones will later be CERTIFIED after the final test,so the book refers to them as still DEAD since they're not YET QUALIFIED for the real life. Revelations 20:5
But the first set[144,000 born again Christians] will be resurrected to heavenly life as spirit persons[angel] Luke 20:34-36
So Before we proceed, HAVE YOU AGREED TO MY TERMS AND CONDTIONS?

shadeyinka:


On terms and conditions, I have answered you. But I don't want you to put YOUR words into my mouth.

Let's start from your 144,000 that you claim will be Born Again hence in the Kingdom of God.

Before we start, are you looking at that scripture Literally or Figuratively?

Maximus69:
NO!
If you've agreed to my conditions then i should be the one to ask the first question Sir!

Maximus69:
Most people may not understand a thing from the scriptures but they surely know what is the common beliefs majority of humans holds apart from the atheists! There is surely one common idea permeating all religions when it comes to DEATH and ETERNAL PUNISHMENT.
So i'm sure you are anticipating that all of them would rush into the thread to come and start questioning Jehovah's Witnesses who hold totally different beliefs from them all.
But that won't work if they notice the scriptures i quoted about Christlike values, only those whose conscience are dead that will come in to display barbaric traits and yet claims to be Christians!
That is what silenced the spirit in your born again friend, NOT the conditions that is fully meant to bring praise to the true God!

shadeyinka:
@Maxumus69
You can start with your question if you want I will suspend mine till we end it

alBHAGDADI:


This one is afraid to confront me. Instead he goes by the side to throw shades and posing as if he silenced me when he's yet to even answer my questions.

He keeps going on and on about the fruit of the spirit which he says he's the only one who has displayed it on this thread, as if to say he has the Holy Spirit. Very funny.

When asked if he's born again which would definitely prove he has the spirit before anyone can conclude he has the fruits of the spirit, he goes silent. Why would one have something and be afraid to say it? He thinks because he has a form of godliness, it means he has the fruit of the spirit. Let's put him to the test.

When Jehovah's witnesses baptize someone, do they say the words in bold below?

Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

They don't because they don't recognize the Holy Spirit in their organization.

When they read the Bible, they read it through the lens of the Governing Body of their organization, instead of through the Holy Spirit whom Jesus said will teach us all things.

John 14:26 (KJV)
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Clearly, you have denied the Holy Spirit, yet you turn around to claim you have His fruits. You claim to have the fruits of something you deny. What you simply have is a form of godliness but have denied the power thereof. The below passage describes you and your Jehovah's witnesses organization. Each verses speaks of JW and their house to house preaching with their bag filled with heretic books.

2 Timothy 3:5-7 (KJV)
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Maximus69:
Just let us know the denomination you belong to as a believer that's all, then we can start questioning what your religion and mine teaches PERIOD!
God bless you Sir!

Maximus69:
Thanks!
In the book of Revelations there are many things mentioned.
So i'll like to hear your opinion.
(1) Should EVERYTHING be taking literally or symbolically?

Maximus69:

(2) If not, can you explain or interpret what Jesus revealed to John in that book like.
* Four horse riders! 6:2-8

Maximus69:

* Woman clothed with the Sun! 12:1

Maximus69:

* Wild BEAST having SEVEN heads and TEN horns! 13:1

Maximus69:

* The SEA out of which the BEAST came!

Maximus69:

* The harlot! 17:1

shadeyinka:

Some are symbolic while others are literal
Example:
Chapters 1, 2 and 3 of the book of Revelation are literal

Revelation12:1 the woman is symbolic
Rev 12:1: "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:"

Some events in Revelation have occurred in the past
Some events in the Present
And some other events in the Future



The four horsemen represent the four kinds of evil that will befall the world: WAR, CONFLICTS, FAMINE and DEATH(probably through plague)

Rev 6:2,4,6,8: "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow ; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. … And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. … And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny ; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. … And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."





Rev 12:1: "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:"


The woman clothed with the Sun could have the representation of:
1. The Nation of Israel (Reference to 12 tribes or the dream of Joseph)

Gen3:14-15
And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Rev 12:14:
"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."





The wild beast having seven heads and ten horns represents the System of Government's on the earth.


Revelation 13:1
...'And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.'

Revelation 17:3
...'So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.



The sea represents people of all nations of the earth



False Spiritual Religious system.
Harlot because they used to know the Truth about Christ and His Church but because the love power they control governments all over the world.
God at a time called Israel a harlot because she lusted after other gods

Jer 3:6: "The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot."


quote author=Maximus69 post=78501195]
* Babylon the Great! 17:5

Babylon may have two interpretations:
1. A literal Nation
Babylon the great is the power headquarters of the world's government. It is a literal nation.


Rev 18:2: "And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils , and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird."

Rev 18:10: "Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon , that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come."
2. The Harlot is also referred to as Babylon: (if she is taken as the Harlot in Rev17:

Rev 17:5: "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

quote author=Maximus69 post=78501195]

* Kings of the earth, FIVE have fallen! 17:10
* Merchants of the earth! 18:11

You can take it one after the other. I promise not to comment on your interpretations unless you ask me to!
Please don't reply yet. I am going bro the church, then I'll complete the next two questions

alBHAGDADI:


I'm a Baptist.

Now go and answer the questions I asked. Make sure you quote the full scriptures you will be using to back your answers up with, not just the links. Failure to do that will mean you have broken Shadeyinka's rule

Maximus69:


* Kings of the earth, FIVE have fallen! 17:10

Maximus69:

* Merchants of the earth! 18:11
You can take it one after the other. I promise not to comment on your interpretations unless you ask me to!

shadeyinka:

Great governments dispensations on the earth from Babylonian to Greece
Dan 2:38-42
: "And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken."


Those who profit from the Spiritual depravity of Babylon City/ the Great Harlot.



Done! I hope I've answered you. But your questions were too long. The Questions will fill a big sized book if one is to completely do justice to it.

I'll be waiting for your response. I'm off to church to be back later in the night.

Shalom

Maximus69:
Please try to behave maturely than this!
You can't tell me what and how to quote inside the scriptures, as long as i have quoted the Bible to back my beliefs i've done exactly what Jesus asked me to do. Jesus only quote the points needed in the scriptures!
You may not be satisfied with my response, that is not my fault, someone else will be!
So let me hear your question now but one at a time!

alBHAGDADI:


That's. ot how Jesus did it. He quoted full verses, not links. What you've been doing all day is quote links while you expect me to start going to open the Bible. What about those who don't have a Bible beside them?

Will it cost you the same energy to kill 50 men when you quote the full verses?

If you can't do that, it means you are being shady and you know it.

Maximus69:
The FOUR horse riders.
Who are they from 1~ 4?
Of course they're symbolic but Number 1 is said to have a bow and a crown was GIVEN him and he went out to conquer and to complete his conquest.
WHO IS HE?
The second rider will take away the peace on earth!
So please tell me which one is Mr WAR, Mr PESTILENCE, Mr FAMINE and Mr DEATH?
Just let me know from 1~ 4 who is who?
Thanks!

Maximus69:
Can you point to where Jesus quoted a scripture from the beginning to the end of a whole chapter?
Well we're trained to go in search for the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. Just a single sentence WRITTEN in God's word is enough to move any sheeplike individual, knowing fully well that the WORD is GOD! John 1:1
So just a word is enough for the WISE!

alBHAGDADI:


What kind of a deceitful human are you? Who said Jesus quoted a full chapter? He only quoted verses.

You claim to be emulating Jesus who quotes verses in words, but what you do is just out the link e.g John 3:16.

Would it kill you to quote the words of John 3:16?

Maximus69:
It's OK.
Let's just say you and i can't agree on terms so forget it!

shadeyinka:

The bible didn't tell us who they are. But what we know is that they are symbols of judgement that will befall the earth.

Not everything is given to us to fully comprehend now till the end proper
Dan 12:9-13:
"And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days."

Rev 10:4:
"And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered , and write them not."

Deu 29:29:
"The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children forever , that we may do all the words of this law."

I will not be made to speculate (as doctrine) things not clearly revealed.