gensteejay:

Interesting argument.

Personally, religions, especially Abrahamic ones, create more problems than solutions. Though that doesn't mean I would prefer a world without religion.

A world without religion is simply not realistic. So I would prefer not to answer OP's question.

However, I am averse to development of a new religion. That's simply creating more problems. There are already hundreds of religions in the world if not more; I don't see what a new one will offer, which is not in the existing ones.

Abrahamic religion, esp Islam is horror to peaceful coexistence. Christianity and other religion in the world breeds hatred, intolerance and segregation among people.

Yoruba traditional religion too have it dark side. There was human sacrifice in it in the past. Don't know if there is now, but civility and evolution has dramatically kicked that practise out of the public.

I think over time, with religion evolving, it will die off naturally. And the only bud that will survive more after is spirituality. And the world will be one.

LordReed:


If that is what gives you pause then it is easily resolved. We hold that no god/gods have been sufficiently demonstrated to exist. In the case of deistic gods which are said to not interact with the universe, there is no further discussion to be had. Every other postulated god will need to meet it's own burden of proof for its existence.

*smile.

How would you tell a pantheist who see God in nature that God doesn't exist?

FOLYKAZE:


Abrahamic religion, esp Islam is horror to peaceful coexistence. Christianity and other religion in the world breeds hatred, intolerance and segregation among people.

Yoruba traditional religion too have it dark side. There was human sacrifice in it in the past. Don't know if there is now, but civility and evolution has dramatically kicked that practise out of the public.

I think over time, with religion evolving, it will die off naturally. And the only bud that will survive more after is spirituality. And the world will be one.

That's Otem opinion or prediction as well. And I am optimistic of that, too.

gensteejay:

That's Otem opinion or prediction as well. And I am optimistic of that, too.

What is your opinion on death?

That topic scares me alot. And it is fascinating too

FOLYKAZE:


What is your opinion on death?

That [b]topic scares me alot. [/b]And it is fascinating too

Most of us feel that way in varying degrees. I used to fear death a lot when I was still a religionist (a Muslim).

Death, as you already know, is a transitional phase to a new life. Our spirit (the real us, our consciousness) is a part of the Almighty God and never dies, and after our death on this planet, it will seek new experiences in new worlds using a new instrument (body) or get reincarnated back to this planet.
Just as our existence on Earth now is basically that spirit seeking experience in the physical world using our body as a tool.

After exploring life in different worlds, we will ultimately return to our real home and reunite with God. Every human, animal, and other conscious entities will experience this: Muslims, Christians, atheists, etc.

The concept is what has been stolen from ancient religion/spirituality by Abrahamic religions and other religions of today and they call it different names, like Aljannah, paradise, Havana, Valhala, etc.

This is the sort of ignorance and deceit in today's religions that birthed atheism and other prevailing issues.

In the beginning of time, before God/the First Cause/Existence created time and space, it is said that It (God) disintegrated to form our individual spirits with the aim of seeking experiences in worlds using our bodies as tools. And ultimately, our spirits will reunite with God (go back home) after experiencing multiple lives and deaths in different worlds.

These religions have abused this concept (heaven) and described it in a superficial manner as places reserved exclusively for believers of their god. Which is not true.

On leaving religion, I have strived to conquer the fear of death by reading various articles and books in philosophy.

In that regard, I find Otem's threads very helpful. Even though I just got to know of him about 2 years ago, his teachings about death and other life issues are quite very old since a number of philosophers, both modern and ancient ones, have explored and documented them. As I later discovered.

He's a guy I have a lot of respect for. Hope his book of universal history does not get hijacked as a tool of religion.

P.S.: This is entirely my opinion on death and neither is it authoritative nor perfect. I have drawn inspiration from Otem's threads, Hermetic teachings (the Kyballion), Billy0naire's threads, Jungian philosophy, and philosophy traditionally as a field.

FOLYKAZE:


*smile.

How would you tell a pantheist who see God in nature that God doesn't exist?

Where in my post did I say that?

dizon:
Without religion, there would be no morality and the world would just be a messed up place filled with messed up human beings

I am irreligious and I don't think you can come close to me in morality. My morality was so much that the muslim daughter of a client of mine was asking me how possible I was able to keep up my morality without believing in any god. I told her that I am human and I want to do what is right so that all human beings like me, including me, can enjoy the world. Haven't you seen irreligious but moral people around you yet? Watch out for them, you'll see tons of them.

LordReed:


Where in my post did I say that?

In your words bro

We hold that no god/gods have been sufficiently demonstrated to exist.

That above simply means God/Gods do not exist. Correct me if I am wrong.

What if you meet someone that worship Gaia (a Greek Deity), with that position you hold above, would you tell the person Gaia doesn't exist?

gensteejay:

Most of us feel that way in varying degrees. I used to fear death a lot when I was still a religionist (a Muslim).

Death, as you already know, is a transitional phase to a new life. Our spirit (the real us, our consciousness) is a part of the Almighty God and never dies, and after our death on this planet, it will seek new experiences in new worlds using a new instrument (body) or get reincarnated back to this planet.
Just as our existence on Earth now is basically that spirit seeking experience in the physical world using our body as a tool.

After exploring life in different worlds, we will ultimately return to our real home and reunite with God. Every human, animal, and other conscious entities will experience this: Muslims, Christians, atheists, etc.

The concept is what has been stolen from ancient religion/spirituality by Abrahamic religions and other religions of today and they call it different names, like Aljannah, paradise, Havana, Valhala, etc.

This is the sort of ignorance and deceit in today's religions that birthed atheism and other prevailing issues.

In the beginning of time, before God/the First Cause/Existence created time and space, it is said that It (God) disintegrated to form our individual spirits with the aim of seeking experiences in worlds using our bodies as tools. And ultimately, our spirits will reunite with God (go back home) after experiencing multiple lives and deaths in different worlds.

These religions have abused this concept (heaven) and described it in a superficial manner as places reserved exclusively for believers of their god. Which is not true.

On leaving religion, I have strived to conquer the fear of death by reading various articles and books in philosophy.

In that regard, I find Otem's threads very helpful. Even though I just got to know of him about 2 years ago, his teachings about death and other life issues are quite very old since a number of philosophers, both modern and ancient ones, have explored and documented them. As I later discovered.

He's a guy I have a lot of respect for. Hope his book of universal history does not get hijacked as a tool of religion.

P.S.: This is entirely my opinion on death and neither is it authoritative nor perfect. I have drawn inspiration from Otem's threads, Hermetic teachings (the Kyballion), Billy0naire's threads, Jungian philosophy, and philosophy traditionally as a field.

This is deep. Many of what you have up there correlates with Ifa philosophy on journey of life. Thanks for sharing your thought.

Permit me to ask you sir...if we are here to experience, that mean our existence is infinite. Changing form after an experiences. But how come we don't recollect our experiences of the past?

FOLYKAZE:




In your words bro



That above simply means God/Gods do not exist. Correct me if I am wrong.

What if you meet someone that worship Gaia (a Greek Deity), with that position you hold above, would you tell the person Gaia doesn't exist?

If you tell me you have an elephant in your backyard and I say, ah I have not seen the elephant, am I saying the elephant does not exist?

LordReed:


If you tell me you have an elephant in your backyard and I say, ah I have not seen the elephant, am I saying the elephant does not exist?

Before you can conclude you do not see Elephant there, you must be able to identify what Elephant is. Coming into conclusion without prior knowledge of what Elephant is is foolishness.

Where do you have issue, you can't see Gaia, don't know what Gaia is, or hold it doesn't exist?


Gaia in Ikale tribe is Aiyelala.

I can't believe my own thread has left me behind

FOLYKAZE:


This is deep. Many of what you have up there correlates with Ifa philosophy on journey of life. Thanks for sharing your thought.

Permit me to ask you sir...if we are here to experience, that mean our existence is infinite. Changing form after an experiences. But how come we don't recollect our experiences of the past?

Yes, our existence is infinite because we are all body parts or aspects of the Almighty, who is infinite.

According to Hermetica, all things in existence are mental images of God, who is called The All in that particular philosophy.

FOLYKAZE:

But how come we don't recollect our experiences of the past

I can only state what I read on Otem's main thread that answers this question: He says when people die, their spirit goes to the valley of shadow of death, where their life is reviewed and they will choose whether to seek experience in a new world or reincarnation back to earth. Whichever option they choose, their consciousness will pass through the river of forgetfulness, where they will lose most memories of their past life.

He shares stories of few people in history that didn't lose most of their memories or regained them through meditation and dreams.

When they (remaining majority) get to back to life in the world they choose, they would occasionally get glimpses of their past life or lives in dreams, but most will not understand what they saw.

He says we can recollect events in our past life through meditation.

That's the most satisfactory answer I I have come across on this issue so far and it's what I feel it's the truth or close to it for now.

FOLYKAZE:


Before you can conclude you do not see Elephant there, you must be able to identify what Elephant is. Coming into conclusion without prior knowledge of what Elephant is is foolishness.

Where do you have issue, you can't see Gaia, don't know what Gaia is, or hold it doesn't exist?


Gaia in Ikale tribe is Aiyelala.

When I or you say elephant I have a reasonable expectation of what we are referring to however with the god concepts there are so many differing definitions, it is always prudent to ask the person proposing a god to define the god.

If you are proposing a Gaia, define Gaia and how we may know Gaia exists.

FOLYKAZE:


This is deep. Many of what you have up there correlates with Ifa philosophy on journey of life. Thanks for sharing your thought.

Permit me to ask you sir...if we are here to experience, that mean our existence is infinite. Changing form after an experiences. But how come we don't recollect our experiences of the past?

I think Ifa is a structured Query Platform to probe for answers from the Arkash and Parallel Realities, so it is safe to say that Ifa System is a medium for Channeling or accessing information from parallel realities and the Deep Mind called Arkash.

Life is infinite, and Life exists in diverse parallel realities, which means even as we are here, there are several other worlds running simultaneous simulations, and within those simulations will be different matrix of controls. You can access these parallel realities and they are as real and even more real than this world. Real world with real people and real advance technologies, but you have to go without this body and when you return, you will wake up in this again.

Spirit has to experience being everything, either as "All that there is", a phase you call God (has no name, just for you refernce here), operating at Raw or Original Consciousness, or can choose to experience life as fragments within a compartmentalized narrow band of frequency spectrum such as the one we are here now. Does not require worship, but religions designed different with different names for mind control purpose.

The body is a vehicle, requires fuel just as every other physical machine, but it is of interdimensional aspect and magnetoelectric-biochemical nature, it also requires nutrition.

In essence, death is just a phase of dropping the Spacesuit for Mission Earth called Physical Body, and returning to default as Quanta of Light, a ball of light that is pure and of interdimensional nature. I have experienced myself severally as this ball of light many times. I have also had a clear glimpse of the world that this present simulation is hosted, if not, at least where my physical connectivity to the machine is hosted. So do not look at the other world as some mundane scary beings kind of place, it is highly technological like what you see in Sci-Fi movies. We came from such locations, at least I know I came from a very highly advanced civilization before here, dont know about you guys. But we keep living in different locations for experiences. We have to create our clones or avatars and then we choose when we want to experience the world and inject ourselves into the world.

In essence, though the fear of death is real, the purpose of awakening is to strip you of that fear so you can function optimally and partake in helping the Universe experience Life through you, because you are the Living, breathing, eating conscious aspect of the universe.

You are not separate, you are it. Your consciousness is narrowed down to enable you forget what you are, and to enjoy this experience.

You all must embrace Science, it is the only way to get to the top of the pyramid of knowledge, and I dare say, without the knowledge of science at its highest level, there is no level of religeous that has the language and tools to explain this existence.

Our Creators are highly technological beings, and the highest level of Science and Technology is what is termed 'Spiritual', and not some mumbo jumbo that religions seem to be confused about.

FOLYKAZE:


Many of what you have up there correlates with Ifa philosophy on journey of life.

Did you create any threads or know informative threads on Ifa philosophy and other related things like Ori (hope you understand the particular term I meant here as the word is not accented) in Yoruba. My knowledge of that subject is not so deep.

LordReed:


When I or you say elephant I have a reasonable expectation of what we are referring to however with the god concepts there are so many differing definitions, it is always prudent to ask the person proposing a god to define the god.

If you are proposing a Gaia, define Gaia and how we may know Gaia exists.

Gaia was a goddess popular in many cultures, including Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt, etc. and has other names such as Earthus, etc.

Otem has a number of histories of her. And if you check Google, Wikipedia, you will get ample info about her.

gensteejay:

Gaia was a goddess popular in many cultures, including Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt, etc. and has other names such as Earthus, etc.

Otem has a number of histories of her. And if you check Google, Wikipedia, you will get ample info about her.

How may we know this Gaia exists?

budaatum:

Don't you know my atheist credentials, tintingz? I was probably an atheist longer than you breathed oxygen, not only doubting that God existed, but knowing categorically that gods are figments of the imaginations that people make up in their own heads!

No, I don't doubt God exists anymore because I can look into my head and check if God is in my mind.


Neither do I! I'm not the stupid sort who refuses to check if the wet and cold I feel is not rain falling on my head making me feel wet and cold! I went up the mountain with Moses, Aaron, the 70 and co, and checked for myself so now I don't believe God exists because I saw what I saw up the mountain and now I know and understand.


I "don't have faith" in the God that is in my mind? How can that possibly be tintingz?

Is it that in your opinion, I should go up the mountain with Moses, Aaron, the 70, etc, to check if God is there and then after seeing what I saw, I should then come back down and be doubting what I saw at the top of the mountain, because I am being sceptical despite having checked and found the evidence?!

Is that not the same as rain is pissing down on my head and I am wet and cold but claiming to myself that it is a nice sunny day and I'm having a great time? Am I blind and did not see that I am cold and wet and rain is pissing on my head or what?!

Abeg don't make me vent anger on your head tintingz, for asking me to be stupid!


Bravo! Finally, he sees, somewhat that I am in no way unique! Lol.

Yes, you are correct. "I do not live by bread alone but on every Word that God wrote and spoke and that one can get one's hands on or one will be malnourished!"


Yes, I have heard of Didymos Judas Thomas. And he was not cursed! The wiki you linked shows the immense work he went on to accomplish and the Gospel in his name is a very amazingly important book as you can see from just the first three verses.

These are the secret sayings which the living Jesus spoke and which Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down.

1) And He said, "Whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not experience death."

2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."

3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you..When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

But if you insist from the above that Thomas was cursed, then, God, curse me now like you cursed Thomas! Please!


He 'cursed' the scribes and Pharisees actually, Jews, no doubt, but only some of them who, despite all the signs he had already openly done and which they had seen, refused to acknowledge what they had seen and asked for more signs as if one more sign would make any difference to them. Besides, these brood of vipers earned their living telling people to 'believe' the stories in the old Testament by giving stones that there hearts were full of instead of the life affirming bread, and now Jesus is right in front of their eyes fulfilling those same stories that they preach and earn a living from and they are asking for signs?!

They must be like the stupid people who are wet and cold because rain is pissing down on their heads and they are claiming that it is a nice sunny day and they are having a great time after checking that it is indeed rain that is falling on their head and making them wet and cold, and they are even deceiving other people who are wet and cold because rain is pissing down on their head, that it is a nice sunny day and they are having a great time! Do tell, were they not even already cursed by their own duplicity and deceit?

They are lucky if Jesus cursed them! He should have turned them into pillars of salt or something. But "Gentle Jesus meek and mild", as they say, and ever so wise, just told them to do some work and travel to Nineveh if they wanted to see signs.

I bet you they didn't even bother!

You were an atheist longer than me, so what am I before? An astronaut?

Sigh..

budaatum:

No! I cannot see anything of the sort. Nor can I see where "religion" is a "bedrock", mind. But then, I never made the claim that religion was a bedrock of anything actually. Even though, religion was how very early primitives did "science" in their primitive day and which has evolved into science today through the application of skepticism, which is why we are more enlightened than early primitives who were limited to what the gods allegedly told them.

Ok.

LordReed:


How may we know this Gaia exists?

Research and read histories about her. You may see online pictures of the shrine some of her worshippers built for her worship.

Just like we research and read about the lives of philosophers like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Carl Jung, Spinoza, who are long, long gone.

Or those didn't exist at one point in history, too?

tintingz:
You were an atheist longer than me, so what am I before? An astronaut?

Sigh..

All that, and the above is all you got?

Don't bother going up any mountain. You will be wasting your very valuable time!

budaatum:

All that, and the above is all you got?

You spoil the show with that statement.

Don't bother going up any mountain. You will be wasting your very valuable time!

Oga, I've been to the mountain before, if you have a special mountain kindly refer me to that mountain.

gensteejay:

Research and read histories about her. You may see online pictures of the shrine some of her worshippers built for her worship.

Just like we research and read about the lives of philosophers like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Carl Jung, Spinoza, who are long, long gone.

Or those didn't exist at one point in history, too?

Then spiderman exists if all it takes to prove a god is a few bits of stories.

Nobody is claiming any of those people exist now so unless you mean Gaia used to exist then it is not sufficient evidence to believe Gaia exists especially if you claim Gaia does things.

LordReed:


Then spiderman exists if all it takes to prove a god is a few bits of stories.

Nobody is claiming any of those people exist now so unless you mean Gaia used to exist then it is not sufficient evidence to believe Gaia exists especially if you claim Gaia does things.

Did I use the word, "exists"? I used "was". Go through my posts again.

All those gods and goddesses are long, long, long gone from this planet. But they did live on earth thousands of years ago.

gensteejay:

Did I use the word, "exists"? I used "was". Go through my posts again.

All those gods and goddesses are long, long, long gone from this planet. But they did live on earth thousands of years ago.

Ah ok.

tintingz:
You spoil the show with that statement.

Oga, I've been to the mountain before, if you have a special mountain kindly refer me to that mountain.

You're sounding like a person who did not study for an exam and arrived at the exam hall begging me to let you copy the work that I produced from my own study as if when you fail I will be failed too.

Sorry. I don’t [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A1-13&version=NIV]owe[/url] you.

budaatum:

You're sounding like a person who did not study for an exam and arrived at the exam hall begging me to let you copy the work that I produced from my own study as if when you fail I will be failed too.

Sorry. I don’t [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A1-13&version=NIV]owe[/url] you.

Sigh.

gensteejay:

Did I use the word, "exists"? I used "was". Go through my posts again.

All those gods and goddesses are long, long, long gone from this planet. But they did live on earth thousands of years ago.

So, the advanced extraterrestrial theory then? The Gods were advanced alien beings?

LordReed:


When I or you say elephant I have a reasonable expectation of what we are referring to however with the god concepts there are so many differing definitions, it is always prudent to ask the person proposing a god to define the god.

If you are proposing a Gaia, define Gaia and how we may know Gaia exists.

I would have defined Gaia to you if you were an ignostist. Ignosticism requires a good, non-controversial definition of god before arguing on its existence.

You are but rather an atheist. According to you, We hold that no god/god have been sufficiently demonstrated to exist. Your statement indicates you know and understand concepts of God, and buttress a positive assertion that God doesn't exist.

Someone asked you to read about Gaia instead of asking me unnecessary question. I have already told you what/who Gaia is. General understanding of Gaia is that in ancient Greek culture, they worship it as a deity. If you claim deity do not exist, that simply mean Gaia does exist. Isn't it?

gensteejay:

Did you create any threads or know informative threads on Ifa philosophy and other related things like Ori (hope you understand the particular term I meant here as the word is not accented) in Yoruba. My knowledge of that subject is not so deep.

Read this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/135166/ori-head#2274041

gensteejay:


Yes, our existence is infinite because we are all body parts or aspects of the Almighty, who is infinite.

According to Hermetica, all things in existence are mental images of God, who is called The All in that particular philosophy.

I can only state what I read on Otem's main thread that answers this question: He says when people die, their spirit goes to the valley of shadow of death, where their life is reviewed and they will choose whether to seek experience in a new world or reincarnation back to earth. Whichever option they choose, their consciousness will pass through the river of forgetfulness, where they will lose most memories of their past life.

He shares stories of few people in history that didn't lose most of their memories or regained them through meditation and dreams.

When they (remaining majority) get to back to life in the world they choose, they would occasionally get glimpses of their past life or lives in dreams, but most will not understand what they saw.

He says we can recollect events in our past life through meditation.

That's the most satisfactory answer I I have come across on this issue so far and it's what I feel it's the truth or close to it for now.

You are a great disciple of Otem. Thanks for your input