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|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by Tosinex(m): 6:49am On Jun 03|
paxonel:The thief on the cross believed and repented in his dying hour, he spoke a word of faith and Jesus loved him and justified him, though he entered paradise like one that has no reward for good works, but I'm talking of those that died still living in their sin, like the terrorists guy that doesn't believe, accept or not and died committing suicide-murder, are you saying such is going to make heaven still.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by ABCthings: 7:41am On Jun 03|
paxonel:oga, being a good Christian/bearing fruits is a mark of abiding in Christ. Read John 15:1-2
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by paxonel(m): 7:58am On Jun 03|
Tosinex:People are becoming educated faster than you think.
If you take this kind of concept and preach gospel to educated unbelievers they will simply look at you and say what is this one saying?
you can't use that to deceive people anylonger.
Find out the meaning of the word repent in your English dictionary, it means
to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
Someone who is about to die has no such opportunity to live again and dedicate his life to turn around or are you thinking that the man dedicated his life on the cross?
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by johnw47: 9:07am On Jun 03|
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
we are saved by God's grace through our coming to faith,
that is, when we come to believe, then God grants us Salvation
we are not saved by belief-faith, God grants us salvation because of it
we do works, not to be saved, but to make our faith perfect
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
works prove our faith
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by Tosinex(m): 9:27am On Jun 03|
paxonel:seems you didn't get that there were two men on the cross. One on the right and the other on the left. If the other one that didn't repent couldn't find himself in paradise, what do you think justify the other one!
"Educated unbelievers", you want to receive salvation with your educational principles right, bro that's a big joke.
And for your broader understanding, repentance starts immediately at that moment you realize what you have been doing is wrong and take a decision not to do it again.
thats exactly what happened to that man on the cross.
However, the last question I asked in my other post, you desisted from answering it! Unmhnm
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|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by paxonel(m): 12:08pm On Jun 03|
Tosinex:don't divert to something else, nobody is saying they want to receive salvation through education. Atleast you can read and write simply because you went to school, what if you didn't go to school will you be able to read bible?
Educated or non educated we are all saved so long we believe in Christ, but if you are not educated there is tendency that you will be mislead by wrong beliefs inspite that you are saved.
that is only when one has the opportunity to live again and actualize the decision,but if the person dies immediately after proclaiming that he has repented, his proclamation is of no use because he died not live to actualize what he has proclaimed.
That is not what happened.
The man did not even proclaim in any form that he repented neither did he say that even if he will be given a second chance to live he will not commit the crime again.
Infact, the man stated that he is receiving his due judgement for his wrong doing that Jesus Christ didn't do anything wrong.
Read it again, what saved him was the point where he asked Jesus to remember him in his paradise, meaning he has believed and agreed that Jesus is the Christ
John 3:16....whosever believes should not perish but have eternal life.
OK, i have to trace it out
so long they did not believe in Christ why will they make heaven?
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
The scripture didn't say he that repent or he that does not repent ,rather it maintained that he that believe or he that does not believe.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by paxonel(m): 12:18pm On Jun 03|
ABCthings:do you understand what I'm saying at all?
I say to abide is Christ isn't the same as being a good christian and not to abide in Christ does not make one good Christian.
simile and metaphor, separate the two.
To abide in Christ isn't the same as good Christian as it applies: there are Christians who are not good, but that doesn't mean they are not Christians or abide in Christ.
Also, there are non Christians who are good, but that doesn't mean they are Christians or abide in Christ
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by Tosinex(m): 12:37pm On Jun 03|
so you are saying that those that didnt go to school cant read bible, or you are trying to say they need educational knowledge to understand what the bible is saying, so they wont be misled right?
As for the thief on the cross, he repented, believed and even declared the Lordship of JESUS and His Kingdom and it earned him paradise
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by paxonel(m): 1:46pm On Jun 03|
Tosinex:you see, that's why when Christian missionaries came to Africa with the bible, they build schools as well because they understood that without schools Africans will not be able to read and understand what is in the bible they brought
that is your own version, because it was not recorded in the bible that he repented.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by ABCthings: 1:52pm On Jun 03|
paxonel:How can you abide in Christ and not bear fruits.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by ABCthings: 1:53pm On Jun 03|
paxonel:How can you abide in Christ and not bear fruits?
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by Tosinex(m): 1:54pm On Jun 03|
paxonel:It doesnt have to be recorded, everything is not written in the scripture.
Anyway educational knowledge is not needed in understanding the scripture, Holy-Spirit is exactly what is needed to understand what is written and have a deeper knowledge in the scriptures. we have thousands of people you will call illiterate and yet they are doing fine in the faith. educational knowledge is just there to aid communication and comprehension, with which so many have use to dilute the scripture and concoct heresies to their own damnation.
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|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by paxonel(m): 1:57pm On Jun 03|
ABCthings:it's very possible!
we have a lot of Christians like that in Africa and elsewhere
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by paxonel(m): 2:02pm On Jun 03|
Tosinex:then where did you get the idea from?
You must have a source.
they might have little understanding of the scriptures based on intuition, but they can never understand it from the basics as a result, they are constantly exploited by fellow Christians who know better.
There were cases like that also in the bible.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by Tosinex(m): 2:07pm On Jun 03|
paxonel:The Spirit reveals all things.
educational knowledge is just there to aid communication and comprehension, with which so many have use to dilute the scripture and concoct heresies to their own damnation. dont forget we have scriptures in different languages now.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by ABCthings: 2:42pm On Jun 03|
paxonel:How? Please explain.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by paxonel(m): 5:52pm On Jun 03|
ABCthings:Ananias and sapphiras abided in Christ, yet they did not bear fruit.
The church of Ephesus in Revelation 2 abided in Christ yet they left their first love, that means they did not bear fruit.
We have so many corrupt Christians who were in position of authority in Nigeria as politicians, they did not bear fruit yet they abided in Christ, infact if you hear them pray and speak in tongues you begin to wonder.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by paxonel(m): 6:04pm On Jun 03|
Tosinex:including chemistry and physics?
If that is the case why do Christians fail exams as others?
Why isn't the holy spirit reveal answers to them?
whoever want to understand scriptures will understand. It's not because of education that many have diluted scriptures. Did you see that video where a female prophet claimed that those who eat Titus fish will go to hell fire? That is a clear example of illiterate person diluting scriptures and concoct heresy.
So, it's not only educated people that are doing it
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by ABCthings: 10:01pm On Jun 03|
paxonel:what happen to Ananias and Sapphiras? They were cut off! The Church in Ephesus too Jesus threatened to remove v5
And those politician do not abide in Christ nor are saved. in order to truly abide in Christ we must bear fruit.
After you're saved you ought to desire righteousness.
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|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by budaatum: 5:07am On Jun 04|
TOSIN116:They will be sinning all over the place and the Lord God Almighty will just dash them Grace.
See as you run comot Lol!
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|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by budaatum: 5:17am On Jun 04|
paxonel:Yes, I have "ever give gifts to people without taking anything in return". I do it all the time. And I am African.
No, I don't understand the "reality" you are "applying" to describe Africans "as give in one hand and collect something". Not all
Care to elaborate please.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by paxonel(m): 8:03am On Jun 04|
budaatum:in that case you are among the few good Africans
As it is observed, the general African traditional value system centres on giving and taking in return, unlike most modern westerners whose value centre on giving and never expecting anything in return.
This is a true fact observed by the westerners themselves among African immigrants.
This explains why our politicians in Africa will invest so much in their political campaigns with the aim of getting 10 times the amount they spend by the time they are elected, and nothing has been done to curb the trend because it is the value of the people.
This also explains why churches in Africa keep preach repentance as a means to get salvation because they think that Jesus Christ shares the same value of giving and taking , that when you give your repentance that is the condition of getting salvation(against the teaching of grace). Some Christian folks are still perhaps unconsciously holding this erroneous belief inspite their education.
This explains why the African society is structured into a huge gap between the rich and the poor, such that if there is no connection to the rich, the poor will have little hope of getting that aspired job even when they are qualified for it.
It is the value of the people, their belief system, they always attach condition to everything they do.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by paxonel(m): 8:50am On Jun 04|
ABCthings:no! they were not cut off, God killed them for their transgression as a deterrent to other believers to let them know that he took the issue of Christianity very seriously.
Now take not : that is the only time God has killed Christians directly in that manner, it never happened again.
Again, killing them does not mean they are not his own, it does not mean they are not saved.
Like the thief that was executed on the cross with Christ, Ananias and Sapphiras are saved into paradise simply because they believe in Christ irrespective of their transgression.
[he only threatened them in order for them to be afraid and repent, but did he carry out the treat?
I don't think so.
That is a big lie!
Scriptures says whosever call upon the name of the lord shall be saved. Just like Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, the son of man has been lifted up and whosever look there upon shall be saved.
These guys call up the name of Christ night and day, yet they are all corrupt Nigerian politicians why will they not be saved?
See, you don't have any jurisdiction to proclaim that someone is not saved, you don't know what is on their mind, all you know is your own mind.
for your info, there is no one single person that have bear fruit except Christ. Whatever man of God you think they are we are all sinners by nature. 1 John 1:8
since all these while you have desire righteousness this long how many righteous were you able to be righteous?
Let me brake your heart with this scriptures.
Romans 3:8 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one"
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it
So, keep your righteousness to yourself Christ don't need it. All he want from you is believe in him and be saved that's all
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by ABCthings: 10:13am On Jun 04|
paxonel:let leave this ones for now
Christ said those who abide in him will bear fruits and those that don't the father will cut off
Please read John 15
Whatever man of God you think they are we are all sinners by nature. 1 John 1:8but we come to Christ we stop abiding in sin
Sin is primarily rebellion against God.
we cannot be in Christ and be rebelling against him
Since I came to Christ i've always tried to do what right and not go beyond God's boundary
we can't be righteous by ourselves but we can be through faith in Christ
Same thing as above
The laws show us to be sinners but we are saved believing in Christ death for us.
I know we are not saved by our works but does it mean we should continue living in sin? Read the last verse of Romans 3
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|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by adoyi8: 12:23pm On Jun 04|
Tosinex:Funny thing is that if you were born in Pakistan, Allah would have chosen you. people like you dont have choices, you only swallow anything that is shoved down your throats.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by paxonel(m): 12:36pm On Jun 04|
ABCthings:OK, all you are saying is we try our best to stop abiding in sin?
If that is what you are saying I agree with you.
But again, no one can fully stop abiding in sin, we can only try our best.
that is for unbelievers.
But for believers, God don't see you when you sin. All he sees in you is Christ and not rebellion.
that is very true!
we cannot be in Christ at the same time called rebels against God. If that is so then what did Christ died for?
you see what I'm talking about?
It is trying that you will try.
There are some non Christians who can even try more than you, but does that mean they are saved like you?
Among Christians we all try according to our ability. Some can do better than others because they are more educated.
The less educated Christians commit more terrible sins than you because they are trying to the best of their knowledge.
Because of this, Christ has come to create a common ground of justification for everyone who believe irrespective of their level of knowledge so that there will be no boasting.
thank God you have understood this.
]Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
We established the law.
But that does not mean we are ruled by the law when it comes to justification into eternal life.
The law says don't steal but when a christian steals he will be purnished for his action by the law here on this earth. But when it comes to justification into eternal life through Christ it's another thing entirely, a spiritual thing.
At that point, the law cannot judge him anymore.
The law becomes powerless,
The man is justified like some who didn't commit any crime.
So why is it forbidden to break the law?
It is to avoid the punishment that comes with it and not to avoid losing salvation.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by ABCthings: 1:08pm On Jun 04|
paxonel:Okay, but I don't agree once we are saved we can never be unsaved even if we go out committing deliberate, willfull sin.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by AlfaAce(m): 1:35pm On Jun 04|
jesusjnr:You're making me see this in a really different light now ooo
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by paxonel(m): 5:18pm On Jun 04|
ABCthings:you don't have to agree but that's the truth.
The only thing that will make a Christian loose his salvation is when he denounces the faith.
Without faith it is impossible to please God.
You remember this prophetic parable.
Matthew 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Matthew 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
The Christian faith brought to earth(the field is the earth) by Jesus Christ at his death and resurrection was once the least faith on earth,few group of people believed in Christ then.But today it is the greatest faith great enough to accommodate large number of gentiles not only the Jews,so salvation is a group of saved people having one faith which is Christ Jesus.
The birds of the air in that parable represent the gentiles who were never inheritance of the abrahamic covenant but counted as strangers among the Jews. These gentiles are now part of the faith.
We are the gentiles.
So, salvation isn't personal effort of keeping the law like people will say salvation is personal.
Salvation is personal when the person decides or not to join the faith by believing in Christ Jesus.
Revelation 20:15 says And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Meaning, whosoever was not found among the group of people believing in Christ, was cast into the lake for fire.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by Tosinex(m): 5:27pm On Jun 04|
adoyi8:hahaha, you should have said if I was born in Iraq into a cleric family! as if we don't have people that left from such into Christianity and are doing very fine, go search the Internet. The fact that you use your choice unwisely doesn't mean others won't use their choice wisely. Let me help you learn something new today, We all have choices, the love of the choices you make is what keeps you going, and the fear of the choices you didn't take is what keeps haunting you", as for you and your kinds the fear of the choices of leaving christianity or not believing in God is what keeps haunting you and makes you feel so insecure and put up a false boldness to attack Christians at will.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by adoyi8: 8:18am On Jun 06|
Tosinex:I don't know you but I am sure that your parents are Christians until you prove otherwise. You didn't make a wrong choice for being a Christian, in fact you didn't make a choice at all. You are just a programmed (indoctrinated) bot not different from someone that will shout allahu akbar and blow himself up. Please stop talking about choices.
|Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by ABCthings: 11:00am On Jun 06|
i created a thread about this
and i think you should keep reading john 15
and remember to ask for God's guildance
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