solite3:
yes but romans tells you not before God.

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.



not possible. You were told to believe in Jesus to be saved.


please quote the full scripture not your words.

When was Abraham justified before or after he sacrificed isaac? Please back it up with scriptures not mere opinion.
I m waiting

You have missed the point totally. Abraham was justified from the moment he OBEYED the voice (conviction) from God to move out from Ur...


That action (works) of Obedience justified him before God and saved him.

This was long before Isaac was even offered as a sacrifice.



Hebrews 11 v 1 & 8-10;

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.



Solite3 , can Abraham be justified if he took no action on the conviction he received?

I won't respond to swines!

jesusjnr:
I won't respond to swines!

haha because you will be exposed

Another example, it was by faith Noah OBEYED (work) God and built the ark.

If Noah stopped short at believing without taking action. No one would have been saved.

That action (work) of building the ark saved mankind...

Conviction and action works hand in hand...

One without the other is useless...

OkCornel:


You have missed the point totally. Abraham was justified from the moment he OBEYED the voice (conviction) from God to move out from Ur...


That action (works) of Obedience justified him before God and saved him.

This was long before Isaac was even offered as a sacrifice.



Hebrews 11 v 1 & 8-10;

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.



Solite3 , can Abraham be justified if he took no action on the conviction he received?

You havent answered my question
I didn't ask you when Abraham had faith, but when was Abraham justified, before or After he sacrificed isaac?
Why did genesis not say that leaving his father's house was counted to for righteousnes.
Answer it not with mere opinion but with the bible.

solite3:
You havent answer my question
I didn't ask you when Abraham had faith, but when was Abraham justified before or After he sacrificed isaac?
Why did genesis not say because Abraham left his father's how there his leaving his father's house was counted to for righteousnes.
Answer it not with mere opinion but with the bible.

Didn't you see where I quoted Hebrews 11 for you. Or was that from the Koran?

OkCornel:


Didn't you see where I quoted Hebrews 11 for you. Or was that from the Koran?

hebrews didnt say when Abraham was justified. Pls do

solite3:
hebrews didnt say when Abraham was justified. Pls do

You are justified from the moment you obey, irrespective of the opinion of men.

Abraham was justified from the moment he heard and OBEYED God. He started hearing and Obeying God before the sacrifice of Isaac.

That's the answer.

Or you have a contrary opinion?

Or is your understanding of justification tied to the opinion of men, rather than God who gave an instruction to be obeyed in the first place?

paxonel:
yes, Christ died for them all but not all of them have accepted Christ. Anyone of them who have accepted Christ though they continue with their prostitution, boko haram, ISIS or whatever atrocities, they are saved. That is the good news of the gospel.


Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us

Understand this : they are saved spiritually but not physically, because they will all face the consequences of their boko haram, ISIS or prostitution here on this physical earth.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

That means, though we are saved but our salvation cannot save us from the consequences of our sin when we sin willfully.

So, our salvation has nothing to do with whether we repent or not.

@bolded. I perfectly understand where you're coming but I would like to add that any of those personalities you've mentioned if truly comes to accepts Christ will begin to live a new life whether in their profession or not, their actions and works begins to bring beauty, peace, love ...(good fruits) to themselves and to others by the reason of the salvation brought unto them through Christ. otherwise they are headed towards a second death by crucifying Christ the second time.

Romans 3:31 KJV
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Luke 12:42-48 KJV
And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? [43] Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. [44] Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. [45] But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; [46] The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him , and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. [47] And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself , neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes . [48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes . For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

OkCornel:


Nope, Abraham's work (obedience to God's instruction) justified him before God...


It's exactly the same thing concerning Job. That was why God could boast against Satan while talking about Job!


I am bringing the very words of Jesus right here...


You can see that even His message to the church of Thyatira shows He recognizes their WORKS & FAITH!

Revelation 2 v 19...

Sorry, no verse says Abraham's work justified him before God. But a verse says Abraham's work didn't justify him before God

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Job had no works before God told Satan about him. It was after Satan went to attack him that Job showed his works by willing to give up everything without cursing God but blessed God.

Job 1:21
21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.

That was Job showing his faith to the whole world. If he had remained rich without suffering those loss, we would t have known he had faith. But God knew he did, that's why God allowed Satan to attack him. If God knew he didn't have faith, do you think God would have allowed Satan to attack him? God would have lost the bet.

The church in Thyatira...

Of courses, God recognizes works, but never as a means to salvation. We are not partners with Jesus in salvation. He did it all himself on the cross.

OkCornel:


You are justified from the moment you obey, irrespective of the opinion of men.

Abraham was justified from the moment he heard and OBEYED God. He started hearing and Obeying God before the sacrifice of Isaac.

That's the answer.

Or you have a contrary opinion?

Or is your understanding of justification tied to the opinion of men, rather than God who gave an instruction to be obeyed in the first place?

I didn't ask for mere opinion.
Meanwhile you havent answer my question.

OkCornel:
JESUS' message to the Church of Ephesus;

Revelation 2 v 1-7;

1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.





But but some people are telling us Faith alone is sufficient... Whereas, this Jesus telling the Church of Ephesus He recognizes their works and labor of love...


Jesus also told them to repent AND DO THE FIRST WORKS! Lest He would remove their candle stick from it's place...

You are just quoting verses out of context. Nowhere does the passage say does people are no longer saved for not doing works. Neither does it say works is needed for salvation.

Or are you blind? Quit reading your own meaning into the passage.


Works is needed for reward and because we love God, but not for salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Firstly, you quoted a passage wrongly to say works is part of what man needs to do to be saved. But the above verse says works is not part of it.

Can you show us how I've quoted the above verse wrongly? No, you can't. But I've shown how all the verses you try to use to support work based salvation are quoted wrongly.

OkCornel:
If Faith alone was sufficient, why did Jesus praise and criticize the 7 churches in line with their works?


What happens to a church (group of believers) that refuses to repent and amend its ways?

Again I ask, if work counts for nothing and justifies no one before God...why did Jesus assess (Praise and or criticize) each of the churches in line with their works?!


Read the message of Jesus to the Churches alongside the Parable of the Sower, the builders, the vine, the sheeps and the goats and see how everything aligns...

Nowhere did Jesus say they won't be saved due to their works. He has saved them already. He was only admonishing and chastising them for their works.

@bold

All those things have been explained already. Go and check your mentions. Stop recycling them. Shame on you, because you already know they've been answered by me.

solite3:
how do you do what you dont believe in?

I do what I understand solite3. Take "love your neighbour as you love yourself" for instance. Loving oneself in this harsh world can often be difficult especially since it can lead to self centeredness and a false sense of righteousness whereby all one thinks of is oneself alone. Yet, here is one being asked to love others as much as one loves oneself, which means if I love myself a little, I will love others a little and if I love myself a lot I would love others a lot.

Now, me? I love myself a lot so I must love my neighbours a lot too or I would be a hypocrite! And I don't just mean dictionary definition of love but love according to an understanding gained from years of study of the concept "to love" and the implications of love and all, which has made love a rather central idea in my total existence. Its in fact an understanding of love that has made me abandon atheism and turn towards God in fact, that understanding being as a light that quenched the darkness that my atheism was.

There is a mystery in the saying "love your neighbour as you love yourself" however, which one would find out eventually, and which faith in obeying it would also eventually lead one to. And that is that there is no difference between oneself and others in the end, and it all boils down to "Love", since oneself and others are one.

How? Through work. Work of diligently studying. Work of diligently trying to find meaning and to understand. If I believe solite3, I am assuming I already know and would no more seek, but by remaining poor, as in the sort of poor in Spirit that the Gospel is preached to, I will continue to seek and be preached to and I am therefore blessed exactly as Christ said I would be.

Now consider, why would believe a thing that one has evidence for and knows?

How I wish it could be laid out in words so it could be understood! Unfortunately, it can't so we ask you to believe until the time when your eyes open and you too can see and understand that Jesus is indeed Lord, and how and why.

solite3:
You dont believe Jesus words yet you claim to be a doer?

I don't believe Jesus, because I understand Jesus, and I know Jesus and all he said I should do. If I don't love, for instance, it is like giving myself cancer that will slowly eat me up and consume me and shorten my life, and how can one who shortens ones own life ever possibly live eternally?

I guess the only question left is whether I truly love right, though I expect you to dispute my claim to know too. Well, I can only claim to aspire since I'm not the measure of righteousness, but I can safely say however that I reap exactly the fruits of the seeds of love that I sow and goodness and mercy is my lot as I do not tend to be a reaper of hatred from anyone on here nor in the real world. But let me boast not least it seem I justify myself by my works, for even my understanding which I would boast of the most is by the Grace of the Lord God Almighty who led me on the path of righteousness despite my ignorant insistence to go to hell, for as is written, "I once was lost but now I'm found", so rejoice and be glad for me.

LifestyleTonite:


Sorry, no verse says Abraham's work justified him before God. But a verse says Abraham's work didn't justify him before God

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Job had no works before God told Satan about him. It was after Satan went to attack him that Job showed his works by willing to give up everything without cursing God but blessed God.

Job 1:21
21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.

That was Job showing his faith to the whole world. If he had remained rich without suffering those loss, we would t have known he had faith. But God knew he did, that's why God allowed Satan to attack him. If God knew he didn't have faith, do you think God would have allowed Satan to attack him? God would have lost the bet.

The church in Thyatira...

Of courses, God recognizes works, but never as a means to salvation. We are not partners with Jesus in salvation. He did it all himself on the cross.

Please explain why Jesus said He would spew the Laodicean church out of His mouth...

Or why he would remove the candlestick of the church of Ephesus from its place if they do not repent and DO THE FIRST WORKS...


After all, those churches had faith in Christ

LifestyleTonite:


You are just quoting verses out of context. Nowhere does the passage say does people are no longer saved for not doing works. Neither does it say works is needed for salvation.

Or are you blind? Quit reading your own meaning into the passage.


Works is needed for reward and because we love God, but not for salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Firstly, you quoted a passage wrongly to say works is part of what man needs to do to be saved. But the above verse says works is not part of it.

Can you show us how I've quoted the above verse wrongly? No, you can't. But I've shown how all the verses you try to use to support work based salvation are quoted wrongly.

Works based salvation? Someone is obviously blind that I have been emphasizing on Faith & Works...and not just works alone...

They are interwoven...

What you should be asking is the works I've been referring to...

OkCornel:


You have missed the point totally. Abraham was justified from the moment he OBEYED the voice (conviction) from God to move out from Ur...


That action (works) of Obedience justified him before God and saved him.

This was long before Isaac was even offered as a sacrifice.



Hebrews 11 v 1 & 8-10;

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Solite , can Abraham be justified if he took no action on the conviction he received?

Abraham was justified from the moment he had faith, not the moment he obeyed the voice to do so and so things which are works.


Romans 4:5 (KJV)
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

As seen above, faith is what God counts for righteousness. This is regardless of whether you work or not.

Your last sentence.

Do you mean justified before God or men?

If before men, he can't be justified unless he did works. That's why James said you have to show your works before men can believe you have faith.

If before God, he can be justified because God doesn't need to see works before he counts a man righteous. All he needs to see is faith. That's according to the verse above.

Even the passage you quoted proves my point. Let's take a look at it from verse one.

Hebrews 11:1 (KJV)
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

As seen above, Abraham had that kind of faith, which is why the Bible says...

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

It showed he believed there is God and looked forward to a city built by the God he couldn't see. He had faith which was his evidence that there is God. He didn't need to see before believing. That is what faith is defined as according to verse 1. It is that faith that God sees and justifies a man by. Abraham had that faith and acted on it to show his faith. Notice how faith came first before every other thing, and how the last verse says the faith was in God.

Hebrews 11:8-9
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

LifestyleTonite:


It means such a person who receives the knowledge of the gospel but turns it down to continue his sinful ways won't have the chance to get saved again. He fully understood the gospel but turned it down.

This doesn't apply to the saved, otherwise it would mean one is doomed the moment he sins again, no more salvation for him. That's clearly wrong.

Actually, no one "who receives the knowledge of the gospel" can possibly "turns it down to continue his sinful ways".

If one has "received the knowledge of the gospel", as in understood it, as opposed to merely believing it, one would be like the one who found treasure in a field and sold all one had to purchase that field.

Those who turn down the purchase of the field have not found the treasure of understanding or don't know what treasure is or they bought the wrong field and regret their worthless purchase.

LifestyleTonite:


Abraham was justified from the moment he had faith, not the moment he obeyed the voice to do so and so things which are works.


Romans 4:5 (KJV)
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

As seen above, faith is what God counts for righteousness. This is regardless of whether you work or not.

Your last sentence.

Do you mean justified before God or men?

If before men, he can't be justified unless he did works. That's why James said you have to show your works before men can believe you have faith.

If before God, he can be justified because God doesn't need to see works before he counts a man righteous. All he needs to see is faith. That's according to the verse above.

Even the passage you quoted proves my point. Let's take a look at it from verse one.

Hebrews 11:1 (KJV)
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

As seen above, Abraham had that kind of faith, which is why the Bible says...

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

It showed he believed there is God and looked forward to a city built by the God he couldn't see. He had faith which was his evidence that there is God. He didn't need to see before believing. That is what faith is defined as according to verse 1. It is that faith that God sees and justifies a man by. Abraham had that faith and acted on it to show his faith. Notice how faith came first before every other thing, and how the last verse says the faith was in God.

Hebrews 11:8-9
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Faith cometh by hearing the word of God.

Abraham was justified from the moment he heard God and OBEYED him...


This thing is straightforward for goodness sake.


Okay, please tell us how Abraham had faith if you disagree with what I just typed.


It's just like telling us Noah was justified from the moment he heard from God to build an ark. If he did not take action, what would be his testimony that he heard from God? How would he and his household ( and by extension mankind) be saved?

budaatum:

I do what I understand solite3. Take "love your neighbour as you love yourself" for instance. Loving oneself in this harsh world can often be difficult especially since it can lead to self centeredness and a false sense of righteousness whereby all one thinks of is oneself alone. Yet, here is one being asked to love others as much as one loves oneself, which means if I love myself a little, I will love others a little and if I love myself a lot I would love others a lot.

Now, me? I love myself a lot so I must love my neighbours a lot too or I would be a hypocrite! And I don't just mean dictionary definition of love but love according to an understanding gained from years of study of the concept "to love" and the implications of love and all, which has made love a rather central idea in my total existence. Its in fact an understanding of love that has made me abandon atheism and turn towards God in fact, that understanding being as a light that quenched the darkness that my atheism was.

There is a mystery in the saying "love your neighbour as you love yourself" however, which one would find out eventually, and which faith in obeying it would also eventually lead one to. And that is that there is no difference between oneself and others in the end, and it all boils down to "Love", since oneself and others are one.

How? Through work. Work of diligently studying. Work of diligently trying to find meaning and to understand. If I believe solite3, I am assuming I already know and would no more seek, but by remaining poor, as in the sort of poor in Spirit that the Gospel is preached to, I will continue to seek and be preached to and I am therefore blessed exactly as Christ said I would be.

Now consider, why would believe a thing that one has evidence for and knows?

How I wish it could be laid out in words so it could be understood! Unfortunately, it can't so we ask you to believe until the time when your eyes open and you too can see and understand that Jesus is indeed Lord, and how and why.


I don't believe Jesus, because I understand Jesus, and I know Jesus and all he said I should do. If I don't love, for instance, it is like giving myself cancer that will slowly eat me up and consume me and shorten my life, and how can one who shortens ones own life ever possibly live eternally?

I guess the only question left is whether I truly love right, though I expect you to dispute my claim to know too. Well, I can only claim to aspire since I'm not the measure of righteousness, but I can safely say however that I reap exactly the fruits of the seeds of love that I sow and goodness and mercy is my lot as I do not tend to be a reaper of hatred from anyone on here nor in the real world. But let me boast not least it seem I justify myself by my works, for even my understanding which I would boast of the most is by the Grace of the Lord God Almighty who led me on the path of righteousness despite my ignorant insistence to go to hell, for as is written, "I once was lost but now I'm found", so rejoice and be glad for me.

you do what you understand not what God commands but you have to understand that loving God above all else is the first commandment before even talking of loving your neighbour.

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Luke 10:27
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

How can you claim you have love but you hate the creator
Yes you hate him when you deny his words and call him a liar.
You ll rather follow your way than his way.

So even the love you claim you have is delusional.
Sorry you have not found the way of God's righteousness, you only found the delusion humanism.

OkCornel:


Works based salvation? Someone is obviously blind that I have been emphasizing on Faith & Works...and not just works alone...

They are interwoven...

What you should be asking is the works I've been referring to...

Sorry to bust your bubble, they are not interwoven. Faith and works are not partners in the salvation man's soul. Faith alone is what ensures salvation, not works. That's according to the verse below.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

But as usual, you will put nails in your eyes and act like you didn't see the verse above.

Let me highlight another part for you to see again that salvation has nothing to do with our works.

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

LifestyleTonite:


Sorry to bust your bubble, they are not interwoven. Faith and works are not partners in the salvation man's soul. Faith alone is what ensures salvation, not works. That's according to the verse below.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

But as usual, you will put nails in your eyes and act like you didn't see the verse above.

Let me highlight another part for you to see again that salvation has nothing to do with our works.

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1) What works was Paul speaking of?

2) What works was James speaking of that completed Abraham and Rahab's Faith?

budaatum:

Actually, no one "who receives the knowledge of the gospel" can possibly "turns it down to continue his sinful ways".

If one has "received the knowledge of the gospel", as in understood it, as opposed to merely believing it, one would be like the one who found treasure in a field and sold all one had to purchase that field.

Those who turn down the purchase of the field have not found the treasure of understanding or don't know what treasure is or they bought the wrong field and regret their worthless purchase.

You think demons and Satan and Okcornel don't have the knowledge of the gospel. They do but they rejected it and oppose it.

To receive the knowledge is different from to believe in what has been received.

LifestyleTonite, let's start with the Ephesians 2 v 8-9;

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Paul clearly mentioned, no one can save his or herself by self effort; not by your power nor by might...

Paul was talking of works by self effort. ( Your own strength)


Do you agree with this?

OkCornel:



1) What works was Paul speaking of?

2) What works was James speaking of that completed Abraham and Rahab's Faith?

1.) The works you do by yourself.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2.) The same works Paul spoke of i.e the works you do of yourself. The works Abraham did of himself by sacrificing Isaac.

James 2:21
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Paul is saying that work which you do of yourself cannot and is not what saves you. The work that saves you is the grace of God which is a gift.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The works you do are just evidences that you already have that gift gotten by faith in God.

James 2:18
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

LifestyleTonite:


1.) The works you do by yourself.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2.) The same works Paul spoke of i.e the works you do of yourself. The works Abraham did of himself by sacrificing Isaac.

James 2:21
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Paul is saying that work which you do of yourself cannot and is not what saves you. The work that saves you is the grace of God which is a gift.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The works you do are just evidences that you already have that gift gotten by faith in God.

James 2:18
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

In answering my questions, you've gone to James.

The works in James referred to those who OBEYED the instructions of God e.g. Abraham sacrificing Isaac.

He did it not of his own understanding, but by God's instruction.


It is obviously not the same works that comes by self effort which Paul spoke of.

Do you agree?

OkCornel:
LifestyleTonite, let's start with the Ephesians 2 v 8-9;

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Paul clearly mentioned, no one can save his or herself by self effort; not by your power nor by might...

Paul was talking of works by self effort. ( Your own strength)


Do you agree with this?

Mumu.


The passage not only speaks against individually trying to save yourself, it also speaks of works.

Not of yourself = You can't save yourself by your own strength.

Not of works = No amount of works or obedience saves you.

What saves you is the Grace of God through Jesus Christ who did the work on the cross. His work on the cross is the only work that saves, not any other work. So don't try to spin this. Paul finished you already.


Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I still thank God I put a clear understanding of the meaning of works I referred to on my first post on this thread.


Note: The works I am talking of here is not that of the Law, but the fruits that manifests by having the Holy Spirit, and following His lead to take decisions.

https://www.nairaland.com/5211669/saved-grace-alone-filthy-doctrine/2#79668113

LifestyleTonite:


Mumu.


The passage not only speaks against individually trying to save yourself, it also speaks of works.

Not of yourself = You can't save yourself by tour own strength.

Not of works = No amount of works or obedience saves you.

What saves you is the Grace of God through Jesus Christ who did the work on the cross. His work on the cross is the only work that saves, not any other work. So don't try to spin this. Paul finished you already.

That means someone like Noah and the entirety of mankind would still be saved from the flood if Noah didn't OBEY (worked) to build the ark as God instructed him?


Can't you see your argument is absurd?

Faith without works (actions, deeds) is useless and profits no one...

OkCornel:
I still thank God I put a clear understanding of the meaning of works I referred to on my first post on this thread.


Note: The works I am talking of here is not that of the Law, but the fruits that manifests by having the Holy Spirit, and following His lead to take decisions.

https://www.nairaland.com/5211669/saved-grace-alone-filthy-doctrine/2#79668113

No matter how you put it you are still wrong. I can already sense a tone of defeat in you.

The works from the fruit of the spirit are not your works. They simply belong to the spirit. They are not even works but fruit.

LifestyleTonite:


No matter how you put it you are still wrong. I can already sense a tone of defeat in you.

The works from the fruit of the spirit are not your works. They simply belong to the spirit. They are not even works but fruit.

You don't even have a Spirit of discernment.

You are already sensing your own delusions of grandeur...