OkCornel:


I am a Satanist for saying no one can abide in the vine without OBEYING THE COMMANDMENTS of Jesus?

It's interesting to hear this from a supposed follower of Jesus...

Have you obeyed all of Jesus commandments? Your answer is definitely going to be No. This means you are damned.

That's what Paul was saying to the Jews that keeping all the law as means of salvation will not saved them cos they will fail. That's why the law is called a burden and the disciples didn't want the Gentiles nor anyone burdened with it when depending on Jesus was enough.

But just as the Pharisees, you are trying to place a burden of obeying every law and commandment when such is not what saves. They only give a good life on Earth and reward in heaven. They are not what gets you to heaven. Jesus is what gets you there.

Oya quote James 2:14 na

LifestyleTonite:


Have you obeyed all of Jesus commandments? Your answer is definitely going to be No. This means you are damned.

That's what Paul was saying to the Jews that keeping all the law as means of salvation will not saved them cos they will fail. That's why the law is called a burden and the disciples didn't want the Gentiles nor anyone burdened with it when depending on Jesus was enough.

But just as the Pharisees, you are trying to place a burden of obeying every law and commandment when such is not what saves. They only give a good life on Earth and reward in heaven. They are not what gets you to heaven. Jesus is what gets you there.

Oya quote James 2:14 na

What is the ultimate commandment of Jesus?

LOVE...

Love one another.

Love your neighbor and your enemies

Love the Lord with all your soul, Love your neighbor as yourself.

I don't need to answer with James. Paul and John's Epistles on love deals with this...


Need I remind you again that LOVE is one of the fruits of the Spirit?

OkCornel:


What part of depending on the Holy Spirit and the words/commandments of Jesus do you not understand?

I have mentioned severally that works by self effort (by your strength) is nothing...

If you depend on the Holy Spirit and the words of Jesus to bear fruits... how then is such works of your own making?

The part we are required to do is;

1) Hear and Believe

2) Obey

You are contradicting yourself. You say the works needed to make heaven is the works of the Holy Spirit. But you have been hammering on Abraham's works.

Abraham's works which you've been hammering on as his justification before God is not the works of the spirit. So you are confused.

You are beginning to succumb to defeat. Now you have stylishly erased works man's works. But before you were mentioning the works of the church in Thyatira and Ephesus as if that is what saves. Now you are saying it doesn't anymore but the work of the Holy Spirit. You are a junior deceiver. Satan didn't train you well.

Believe is all that is required for eternal life and salvation.

Obedience is for reward here on Earth and in heaven.

LifestyleTonite:


Have you obeyed all of Jesus commandments? Your answer is definitely going to be No. This means you are damned.

That's what Paul was saying to the Jews that keeping all the law as means of salvation will not saved them cos they will fail. That's why the law is called a burden and the disciples didn't want the Gentiles nor anyone burdened with it when depending on Jesus was enough.

But just as the Pharisees, you are trying to place a burden of obeying every law and commandment when such is not what saves. They only give a good life on Earth and reward in heaven. They are not what gets you to heaven. Jesus is what gets you there.

Oya quote James 2:14 na

You have gone to quote what Paul said about keeping the Law.

The deeds of the Law saves nobody.

Are you equating the commandment of Jesus to the Laws of Moses? Are you sure you understand what JESUS' commandments are?

LifestyleTonite:


You are contradicting yourself. You say the works needed to make heaven is the works of the Holy Spirit. But you have been hammering on Abraham's works.

Abraham's works which you've been hammering on as his justification before God is not the works of the spirit. So you are confused.

You are beginning to succumb to defeat. Now you have stylishly erased works man's works. But before you were mentioning the works of the church in Thyatira and Ephesus as if that is what saves. Now you are saying it doesn't anymore but the work of the Holy Spirit. You are a junior deceiver. Satan didn't train you well.

Believe is all that is required for eternal life and salvation.

Obedience is for reward here on Earth and in heaven.

Abraham was justified by works because he OBEYED GOD.

Not by self righteous acts...

Has James 2 v 20-26 not made this clear and concise already?

LifestyleTonite:


You are contradicting yourself. You say the works needed to make heaven is the works of the Holy Spirit. But you have been hammering on Abraham's works.

Abraham's works which you've been hammering on as his justification before God is not the works of the spirit. So you are confused.

You are beginning to succumb to defeat. Now you have stylishly erased works man's works. But before you were mentioning the works of the church in Thyatira and Ephesus as if that is what saves. Now you are saying it doesn't anymore but the work of the Holy Spirit. You are a junior deceiver. Satan didn't train you well.

Believe is all that is required for eternal life and salvation.

Obedience is for reward here on Earth and in heaven.

If Belief without obedience is required to be saved;

1) Why does Jesus regard only those that keeps His commandments and obey His words as His friends?

2) Why did Jesus threaten to spew out the Laodicean church from His mouth?

3) Why did Apostle James also mention in James 2 v 19 that even fallen angels also believe in one God and tremble?

4) Why did Jesus threaten to remove the candlestick of the church of Ephesus from its place?

5) Why did Jesus say only those that one's His commandments will abide in Him and remain fruitful?


As for the works of the early churches, you need understanding. Were these good works or bad works?

I asked you that if belief was enough, why was Jesus emphasizing on the works of all the churches?

All forms of works would be judged by Jesus/God. And we obviously know the ones in line with His will and His Spirit would be justified...

You havent answered my question
I ask you when Abraham had faith, but when was Abraham justified, before or After he sacrificed isaac?
Why did genesis not say that leaving his father's house was counted to for righteousnes.
Answer it not with mere opinion but with the bible.

Okcornel

solite3:
You havent answered my question
I ask you when Abraham had faith, but when was Abraham justified, before or After he sacrificed isaac?
Why did genesis not say that leaving his father's house was counted to for righteousnes.
Answer it not with mere opinion but with the bible.

Okcornel

Abraham was justified the moment he OBEYED GOD.

Obviously Abraham started obeying God before the sacrifice of Isaac.

What exactly is your point? That Abraham didn't act righteously by obeying God in Genesis?

But he was now justified in the new testament?


Solite3, this is a very hilarious question...

OkCornel:


If Belief without obedience is required to be saved;

1) Why does Jesus regard only those that keeps His commandments and obey His words as His friends?

obeying Jesus commandment is the fruit of salvation.

2) Why did Jesus threaten to spew out the Laodicean church from His mouth?

Jesus was not speaking to an individual but to the whole church. If Jesus spew the church out of his mouth then it would cease to exist but it does not take away the salvation of individual member.

3) Why did Apostle James also mention in James 2 v 19 that even fallen angels also believe in one God and tremble?

Even muslims believe there is one God I guess by your assumption muslims are saved.

4) Why did Jesus threaten to remove the candlestick of the church of Ephesus from its place?

because the church failed in its duties.

5) Why did Jesus say only those that one's His commandments will abide in Him and remain fruitful?

when believers keep the comandment of Jesus they will know they are abiding in him and whstever they ask will be given them.

As for the works of the early churches, you need understanding. Were these good works or bad works?

Here is a verse telling you that a believer can have bad works and still be saved but he loses his rewards.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

[b]If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.[/b[

OkCornel:


Abraham was justified the moment he OBEYED GOD.

Obviously Abraham started obeying God before the sacrifice of Isaac.

What exactly is your point? That Abraham didn't act righteously by obeying God in Genesis?

But he was now justified in the new testament?


Solite3, this is a very hilarious question...

where is that in the bible that says Abraham was justified the moment he left haran

It is not a hilarious question. Do you think God is not wise to have things recorded in the scriptures?

The bible said Abraham was justified the moment he believed in God. This is after he has left haran and before he sacrificed isaac.

Genesis 15:6
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Abraham was not declared righteous because he left haran or because he sacrificed isaac but because he believed in The Lord.

Do you know circumcision which was a work Abraham which Abraham did was just a seal of his faith. So that the others that are uncircumcised can believe.

Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

No works of Abraham was accounted as righteousness until he believed in the Lord.
Did Abraham believed God yes? But the gospel wasnt not preached to him until in Genesis 15 it was this gospel that inspired Abraham to believe in The Lord then and only then was it accounted to Abraham has righteousness.

solite3:
obeying Jesus commandment is the fruit of salvation.

Jesus was not speaking to an individual but to the whole church. If Jesus spew the church out of his mouth then it would cease to exist but it does not take away the salvation of individual member.

Even muslims believe there is one God I guess by your assumption muslims are saved.

because the church failed in its duties.

when believers keep the comandment of Jesus they will know they are abiding in him and whstever they ask will be given them.



Here is a verse telling you that a believer can have bad works and still be saved but he loses his rewards.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

[b]If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.[/b[

What happens to those who do not keep the commandments of Jesus as per the parable of the vine?

You just said obedience to JESUS' commandments is the FRUIT of one's salvation...

What happens to those who don't bear such fruit?

solite3:
where is that in the bible that says Abraham was justified the moment he left haran

Joke of the year, solite3 wants to tell us Abraham's faith was justified many years after he started obeying God.

Hebrews 11 v 8 has your answer.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.


Please tell us Abraham act of obedience was justified and recognized as righteousness before God many years after he OBEYED God.

solite3:


Even muslims believe there is one God I guess by your assumption muslims are saved.

Now I know you have zero understanding as to why I asked why James said what he said in Chapter 2 v 19;


Even demons believe there is one God ( The same God Christians believe in). Belief alone means nothing at all!

If you believe Jesus is God, then that kills off this argument.


Please read James chapter 2 again.

OkCornel:


What happens to those who do not keep the commandments of Jesus as per the parable of the vine?

You just said obedience to JESUS' commandments is the FRUIT of one's salvation...

What happens to those who don't bear such fruit?

who are those who didnt bear fruit they are those who didnt Abide in christ.
The only requirement for fruit bearing John15 is to abide in christ which means to believe on him.
The fruit if the Spirit is means one has abided in christ.

The spirt is only on those who believe on Jesus is their saviour but those who dont abide in christ are those who depend on their works to get them saved.

OkCornel:


Joke of the year, solite3 wants to tell us Abraham's faith was justified many years after he started obeying God.

Hebrews 11 v 8 has your answer.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.


Please tell us Abraham act of obedience was justified and recognized as righteousness before God many years after he OBEYED God.

it is there in your bible open it and read it.

solite3:
who are those who didnt bear fruit they are those who didnt Abide in christ.
The only requirement for fruit bearing John15 is to abide in christ which means to believe on him.
The fruit if the Spirit is means one has abided in christ.

The spirt is only on those who believe on Jesus is their saviour but those who dont abide in christ are those who depend on their works to get them saved.

See how you just contradicted yourself.

Read the parable of the vine again.

Those that bear fruits are those who abide in Jesus. You can only abide in Him if you keep his COMMANDMENTS....

solite3:
it is there in your bible open it and read it.

Lol... you want to tell us Abraham's act of obeying God was now seen as an act of righteousness many years after the act?

No kill me with laugh abeg...

OkCornel:


Now I know you have zero understanding as to why I asked why James said what he said in Chapter 2 v 19;


Even demons believe there is one God ( The same God Christians believe in). Belief alone means nothing at all!

If you believe Jesus is God, then that kills off this argument.


Please read James chapter 2 again.

are you saying that a christian faith and that of demons are the same?
You are wrong, Christian faith is a living faith because it rest on Jesus.
Muslims believe there is one God other religion believe too, the demons believe there is one God but Christians do not believe there is one God but we believe on him as our saviour, the one who died for our sins, was buried and resurrected for our own justification and will come back for our glory.

solite3:
who are those who didnt bear fruit they are those who didnt Abide in christ.
The only requirement for fruit bearing John15 is to abide in christ which means to believe on him.
The fruit if the Spirit is means one has abided in christ.

The spirt is only on those who believe on Jesus is their saviour but those who dont abide in christ are those who depend on their works to get them saved.

Stop twisting the words of Jesus, take note of the bolded words.


John 15 v 1-17

The Vine and the Branches
1“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.

2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful.

3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.

10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.

12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

17 This is my command: Love each other.

OkCornel:



See how you just contradicted yourself.

Read the parable of the vine again.

Those that bear fruits are those who abide in Jesus. You can only abide in Him if you keep his COMMANDMENTS....

U have nothing to hold on to again

Note how verse 10 uses the word COMMANDS!


Which connotes multiple instructions.

The tap root of all those instructions is LOVE

solite3:

U have nothing to hold on to again

The words of Jesus keeps on exposing you.

Just wait for that of John too...

solite3:

U have nothing to hold on to again

1 John 2 v 3-4;

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.



Please tell us you believe in Jesus. But if you don't keep His COMMANDMENTS. You are a Liar.


This is Apostle John speaking here...

OkCornel:


Abraham was justified by works because he OBEYED GOD.

Not by self righteous acts...

Has James 2 v 20-26 not made this clear and concise already?

Abraham was not justified by works of obedience but by faith/believe.

Romans 4:2-3
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

You are even contradicting yourself. You even said his work of self-righteousness didn't justify him. Later you will say it's the works or fruits of the Holy spirit that got him justified before God. Still yet, it wasn't Abraham's works but the works of the spirit. So clearly, Abraham did no work to earn justification before God.

I know the next thing you will do is ask a diversionary question just to make it seem like you didn't see how this post exposed you.

Oya start

To the person that said Faith in Christ but with a sinful lifestyle will still guarantee Heaven...

Read this from Apostle John;

1 John 3 v 7-9;

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

LifestyleTonite:


Abraham was not justified by works of obedience but by faith/believe.

Romans 4:2-3
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

You are even contradicting yourself. You even said his work of self-righteousness didn't justify him. Later you will say it's the works or fruits of the Holy spirit that got him justified before God. Still yet, it wasn't Abraham's works but the works of the spirit. So clearly, Abraham did no work to earn justification before God.

I know the next thing you will do is ask a diversionary question just to make it seem like you didn't see how this post exposed you.

Oya start

Smh...

James had already given a thorough explanation on what that entails;


James 2 v 21-24;


21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.



Abraham heard God and OBEYED Him. That action of obedience is the works that justified him. That is righteousness before God.


Another good example is JOB. Why did you think God was able to boast with Job?



The book of Romans was written around AD 55.

The book of James was written around AD 69 a few years after the death of Paul...


The book of James and Hebrews sheds more light on the subject matter of Faith...


Faith without works is useless, obsolete, dead...

solite3:
are you saying that a christian faith and that of demons are the same?
You are wrong, Christian faith is a living faith because it rest on Jesus.
Muslims believe there is one God other religion believe too, the demons believe there is one God but Christians do not believe there is one God but we believe on him as our saviour, the one who died for our sins, was buried and resurrected for our own justification and will come back for our glory.

Bring the definition of Faith here. Let's start with that.

Then see why James wrote what he wrote in chapter 2 v 19.


James 2 v 19;

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


If Belief alone was sufficient, why did James the younger brother of Jesus wrote what he wrote in chapter 2 v 19?

1 John 3 v 15-19 & 24;

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

ANY BELIEVER THAT PAYS LIP SERVICE TO LOVE WITHOUT DEEDS TO SHOW FOR IT IS A LIAR AND A FRAUD.

OkCornel:


1 John 2 v 3-4;

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.



Please tell us you believe in Jesus. But if you don't keep His COMMANDMENTS. You are a Liar.


This is Apostle John speaking here...

I've told you that you are just quoting scriptures according to the letter, not the spirit.


1 John 2:3-5
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

According to you, one has to do all the commandments of Jesus to be saved. This means if you don't do them, you are not saved. You forgot that the next verse talks about keeping his word is still saved.

1 John 2:5
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

What is the word of God or the word of Jesus? Let's read the verse below.

John 3:16 (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

As seen above, hearing the word and believe gives everlasting life. What is everlasting life? A life never ending. How can an everlasting life be lost? It can never be lost. We have it already whether we sin or not.

If we sin which is disobey the commandment, the first verses on 1 John 2 which you quoted shows what will happen.

1 John 2:1-2 (KJV)
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

OkCornel:


Smh...

James had already given a thorough explanation on what that entails;


James 2 v 21-24;


21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.



Abraham heard God and OBEYED Him. That action of obedience is the works that justified him. That is righteousness before God.


Another good example is JOB. Why did you think God was able to boast with Job?



The book of Romans was written around AD 55.

The book of James was written around AD 69 a few years after the death of Paul...


The book of James and Hebrews sheds more light on the subject matter of Faith...


Faith without works is useless, obsolete, dead...

Guy, we've past this level. Stop recycling.

LifestyleTonite:


Guy, we've past this level. Stop recycling.

How many times did you recycle Romans 4 on this thread?

You should heed to your own advice first.

LifestyleTonite:


I've told you that you are just quoting scriptures according to the letter, not the spirit.


1 John 2:3-5
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

According to you, one has to do all the commandments of Jesus to be saved. This means if you don't do them, you are not saved. You forgot that the next verse talks about keeping his word is still saved.

1 John 2:5
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

What is the word of God or the word of Jesus? Let's read the verse below.

John 3:16 (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

As seen above, hearing the word and believe gives everlasting life. What is everlasting life? A life never ending. How can an everlasting life be lost? It can never be lost. We have it already whether we sin or not.

If we sin which is disobey the commandment, the first verses on 1 John 2 which you quoted shows what will happen.

1 John 2:1-2 (KJV)
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Read James 2 v 19;


Jesus also made it clear in the Parable of the vine in John 15 that those who abide in Him are those that keeps His commandments.

If you don't keep his COMMANDMENTS, you no longer abide in Him and you will not bear fruits.


A branch that does not bear fruit will be cut off and cast into the fire.


These are the very words of Jesus.


And no matter how you want to twist the scriptures, Jesus gave His followers COMMANDMENTS (plural), not Commandment (Singular)