. . . and by the way, i'm an independent. Republicans & democrats suck.

JeSoul:

. . . and by the way, i'm an independent. Republicans & democrats suck.

Same thing tea baggers claim but when they open their mouths, it reeks of nothing but Republican hypocrisy.

^^^You want to bring out the Incredible Hulk in me?

JeSoul for President!!! You're up late o!

JeSoul:

^oga, i was without employment for 1 month few yrs ago and thought that was death. You think i have no sympathy for someone who's going on for months n even yrs?

The only ppl i am against r those who milk the system and take advantage of 'welfare' meant for those who truly need it.

How many people are in the position to milk the system per say?. Welfare is given for the children and not their parents but you Republicans put it out like it is given to irresponsible adults who don't wanna work. If I have my way, every child in Nigeria should be well fed with our oil money until they turn 18. Why are you tea baggers against poor children getting access to fish and eggs like the rich kids?.

Why point the liberals only or didn't you know that Republicans used the fear factor  to lure Americans into war just to make more money from both governments at the expense of lives of women and children. Is that not taking advantage of the system?

Emeka, against my better jugdement i replied you again. I won't make that mistake a 3rd time. Godbless n i hope you'll find another "tea bagger" to indulge your prejudices. Godbless

Vescucci! What findest thou in this part of the woods? Its late oh I know. I'm off to do some sets in the gym, wanna come?

I came to rescue you na. But you won't be needing that no more I see. If you mean basketball, the last time I played B-ball was 4 years ago, and that's because I have a bad memory. It might be 12 lol. I'm still a chauvinistic bastid, I can't stand losing to a woman, even you, lol.

I'm tempted to join this una discussion but I won't jare.

Lol, my knight. I shall tell oga somebody got my back. The term 'tea bagger' is actually a sexually explicit insult. That should help understand why i leave him be.

No not only bball now, some weights too, some cardio etc you up for it? . And you don't have a chauvinistic bone in ur body sir. You are wise as i always like to remind you. And all ur efforts at modesty will not work .

Ah. With oga, you don't need your back being watched in real life but here where there is no oga. . . . hence. But actually I'm sort of a Kick-backside hero, lol. And it's not my adversaries that get their backside kicked. It's me, just long enough for the D.I.D to get away. But this one wey you don dey do cardio, I think people need to watch their backs. . . . . . and kneecaps.

As for modesty, maybe I'm actually counting on you to say that and in the end appear like I'm a nice guy when I'm truly a chauvinistic swine.

Ok! I've had enough of politics, which I really don't care for, for this year. They are all the same. What difference does it make if you die by republican of democrat bullets?

I'm googling tea bagger, with a slight cringe. I thought it was just derogatory like a manual labourer or something.

P.S. My weights will start at 20 pounds, deal?

@JeSoul,

Don't mind Aloy+Emeka.  Who cannot play Mr Nice Guy with other people's money?  While Leftists simulate compassion through political activism, Conservatives do theirs by dipping their hands into their own pocket to help the needy. Survey continues to show that conservatives give much more of their earned income to charity than all the feel-good Leftists.  So don't let the pontifications of this itenerant leftist blogger called Aloy plus Emeka trouble you.

Check out the following article detailing the charitable giving of some leading conservatives and Leftists.  It's funny that what Biden gave out in charity the whole of this decade is less than half of the least amount my wife and me have ever given to charity in any given year - and we do not make what he makes in a year! http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-12-biden-financial_N.htm

Maybe if these Leftists put their money where their mouths are one will listen to them better. There probably will be less people dependent on the govt if only they make up the shortfall compared to Conservatives.

may God bless all those who give to charity. i always admire such people and i wont engage in comparing charities. if you do so, you do it for God (at least so I believe)

also, i think charities should be kinda secret. there's no need for me to announce that i give charity or the amt i give, if i give. ''let not your right hand know what the left is doing'' i thought. i'm a bit surprised by this ''charity competition between democrats and republicans'' . . . a bit . . anyway, it's okay

Prez, I don't think Tayo D was trying to "compare charities" but rather make a point that those who sometimes scream the loudest about helping the poor and point at others as greedy and selfish, do so erroneously. When conservatives talk about keeping their own money, the left screams they are selfish and don't want to help the needy - case in point this very thread. Tayo is simply showing how that is mostly untrue. I was accused of being selfish and I should "keep my change", does he even know how I spend my money? because leftists herald and shout from the rooftops when they give while others keep their bizniz quiet, they assume they are the only ones interested in "giving". Talk about self-righteousness (not you though  )

TayoD, I am not troubled jare. We all know welfare is good and necessary when it goes to its intended purpose. Right now there is widespread abuse of the system. Like you said, some are confusing "compassion" for continuing to foot the bill for many lazy, criminal people who simply do not want to work. I reminded Prez, is it not the same bible that says "whoever doesn't work should not eat"? why is that principle being abandoned in the name of false "compassion"? I know many single mothers, they don't stay home and engage with criminal men and continue to father more and more children for the govt to take care of, they bust their behinds and work hard to take care of the their children. See even the immigrants, how hard they work - 2, 3 jobs just to feed their children. Yet some are crying we should continue to fund sheniqua and her 6 children all from different fathers, without even realizing the money oftentimes doesn't go to the children, but rather to her $500 weave-on and gucci purse. Until we demand responsibility and accountability, we are only encouraging them to remain as they are, while convincing ourselves we are "helping" them. Tayo please help me tell them oh! lol

. . . and oh Vesc, na me and you later

I get ur point jesoul and believe me I'm impressed when I hear tayo give charities, I'm impressed bc I know I probably give less than he does, if I give at all.I have never questioned his compassion, I have questioned his policy ideas, the compassion of some republicans and the sincerity of some democrats.

That's not fair. While it's true that some people cheat the welfare system, the truth is that the majority of people who get welfare are good for it - People in dire and severe straights. To tar all welfare recipients as crooks or a shuniqua with 6 kids because of the actions of a minority is unfair.

There are a lot more innocent people who would suffer than crooks who would benefit from the system.

Just like ending immigration bc some people abuse the system.
Or ending democracy bc some evil fellow called Hitler came to power through the ballot.

It's really not fair, but that's what the conservative media tries to show. life is all about empathy, as long as you don't feel the pain of the other person, he can go to hell. Until it happens to them. Just like this gun violence and gun control debate, the day a senators child falls victim to lone gunman, that day, gun control will become a serious debate in congress

omo~fat:

That's not fair. While it's true that some people cheat the welfare system, the truth is that the majority of people who get welfare are good for it - People in dire and severe straights. To tar all welfare recipients as crooks or a shuniqua with 6 kids because of the actions of a minority is unfair.

Statistics please? And where did I call ALL of them shuniquas? I used an example, albeit an extreme one to show the system is abused daily. From my own personal anecdotal evidence, at least 50% of welfare recipients should not be getting it.

I spoke to a friend yesterday going thru tough times, she has two kids, she could use a ton of help but does she get it? no. Because the system is bogged down by leeches siphoning off hardworking americans. Read my posts again omofat. I did not say welfare is not necessary, just that abuse is widespread. So you do not even realize I agree with you 1000% when you say this:

There are a lot more innocent people who would suffer than crooks who would benefit from the system.

Who do you think suffers the most? those who actually need it!

pres-elect:

Just like ending immigration bc some people abuse the system.
Or ending democracy bc some evil fellow called Hitler came to power through the ballot.

It's really not fair, but that's what the conservative media tries to show. life is all about empathy, as long as you don't feel the pain of the other person, he can go to hell. Until it happens to them. Just like this gun violence and gun control debate, the day a senators child falls victim to lone gunman, that day, gun control will become a serious debate in congress

Now its your turn to quote me properly. Please where did I say welfare should be ended? have I not infact consistently said it is infact necessary? And where did I tell others to go to hell until it happens to me? please quote me properly. Did I not infact speak of when I was unemployed?

  I repeat again prez, does the bible not say "he who does not work should not eat"? why does calling out these irresponsible people to be accountable for themselves become synonymous with "not caring until it happens to you"? why can't a person criticize loose irresponsible behavior of having 6 kids when you can't take care of them? without being labelled "right wing" and "not caring"?

I'm tired.

JeSoul link=topic=521215.msg6852177#msg6852177 date=:


Now its your turn to quote me properly.

you win

I'm tired.

take a deep breadth, relax, calm down. Have done juice, a few kisses from your man and come again tomorow. Remember, you are only having a debate.

Tomorrow I will come. Only I will bring my trusty foldable koboko with me. Just wait ehn.

Debates are fun now, only when positions and quotes are properly attributed to their owners. See how you vex when I mistook you for David. I have some labwork to finish jare. Have urself a pleasant evening sir. and you too omofat (which kin name be omo~fat self)?

I think the welfare system is being seriously abused.

I know a girl who has 3 kids and all her baby daddies dont work, She struggles with 2 jobs while her friend who has 5 kids hasnt been working for at least 7yrs and she makes more in Welfare, food stamps and govt aid than the other girl who works.

She was now asking if it makes sense for her to continue working while her friend just sit at home and make money from Govt handout.

JeSoul:

I'm tired.

Ahh,  Don't be tired o. Today is a new day,  Hope you had a brilliant evening, are recharged and rearing to go 

  (which kin name be omo~fat  self)?

Na correct double barrelled, posh, respectable name o,  You no see how e just dey roll off of your tongue eh ? 

---

But seriously, of course the welfare system could do with being tidied up some. And we can look at constructive ways to do that. But most conservative commentators always pivot to the ridiculous by constantly suggesting that all welfare recipients somehow are lazy and theiving lowlives. Like I mentioned earlier, the problem with demonizing them as such is that we as a society end up allowing those who are truly in need of it to suffer. Public policy isn't something that is implemented with fullproof plans so I personally would err on the side of allowing one or two crooks slip through while helping out the majority of truly needful. Ofcourse, tighten the enforcement too where you can (but then again, if we were talking about enforcement in certain other areas, then the same conservatives would be yelling BIG GOVERNMENT!, INTRUSION!!, FREEDOMS!!!".

The main thing is helping people to regain their self-esteem, sense of self worth, job creation, helping them find jobs and positively empowering them. We all know of people who lose their jobs and end up in desperate situations who would still refuse to sign up for welfare because of the stigma attached and their sense of pride. And when they do end up on it, you can bet your top dollar that they are most uncomfortable and desirous of getting out of it. They shouldn't be lampooned too.

Now you have some communities of people, examples of where 3 generations of families have lived on welfare (probably shuniqua types of this world with 5 kids). Sadly but understandably, most of those kids grow up thinking that's the only way. These are the ones that need to helped out and they are much better ways of doing it than allowing them to starve cuz that's what the Bible says. So fine Shuniqua is an irresponsible parent. Should we allow her five "innocent" kids die of starvation too? - The problem of trying to figure out who is genuine and who is irresponsible a non-trivial problem and one that we likely won't resolve on the fine pages of nairaland.

Welfare isn't an isolated issue. The main reason it's come to the fore now is because of the current bad and unhealthy state of the economy. It's poor people who are on welfare. They are the easy target. Everyone is angry about the economy so let's channel our anger on the poor people claiming welfare who are draining the system; never mind that they aren't really the ones who put us in this mess in the first place. Nope, those were the rich fat cats in high places. But no one wants to talk about those. They're untouchable. It's the big fat elephant in the room and it's pink too!

dayokanu:

I think the welfare system is being seriously abused.

I know a girl who has 3 kids and all her baby daddies dont work, She struggles with 2 jobs while her friend who has 5 kids hasnt been working for at least 7yrs and she makes more in Welfare, food stamps and govt aid than the other girl who works.

She was now asking if it makes sense for her to continue working while her friend just sit at home and make money from Govt handout.

   Thank you oh Dayo, its not only me who's seeing these things.

omo~fat:

Ahh,  Don't be tired o. Today is a new day,  Hope you had a brilliant evening, are recharged and rearing to go 

Brilliant it was sir . Dunno about recharged and ready to go but we'll see. . .

Na correct double barrelled, posh, respectable name o,  You no see how e just dey roll off of your tongue eh ? 

Lol. Posh and double-barreled? if we do a quick poll how do you think the voting will go? 

But seriously, of course the welfare system could do with being tidied up some. And we can look at constructive ways to do that. But most conservative commentators always pivot to the ridiculous by constantly suggesting that all welfare recipients somehow are lazy and theiving lowlives. Like I mentioned earlier, the problem with demonizing them as such is that we as a society end up allowing those who are truly in need of it to suffer. Public policy isn't something that is implemented with fullproof plans so I personally would err on the side of allowing one or two crooks slip through while helping out the majority of truly needful. Ofcourse, tighten the enforcement too where you can (but then again, if we were talking about enforcement in certain other areas, then the same conservatives would be yelling BIG GOVERNMENT!, INTRUSION!!, FREEDOMS!!!".

Good points. You're right a few on the left 'demonize' the entire bunch and call them all "lazy" and "irresponsible". But my dude, I know better. I have been fortunate to live, work and volunteer amongst the "urban" generation (hate that term) and[b] I know[/b] that many times its not as simple or straightforward as "they don't want to work". People are truly destitute and down-trodden, hopeless in every sense of the word. Poor, insecure, live in terrible neighborhoods, no hope for the future. I was almost in tears last night watching the news of a mother and her 2yr old gunned down 2 days ago in Boston. These are not the people drawing my ire or that of others. I also see daily, teenage mothers with 3 kids, whose only source of income comes from the govt. They laugh about it, saying they will have more so they can get more money. How is a hardworking citizen of this country who feeds her supposed to react to that?

  I have seen both sides, and this is how I also know its frustrating to those on the other side when many liberals will not acknowledge that the system is terribly broken and needs fixing. They dismiss it as "just a few bad eggs". When people suggest and criticize the elements taking advantage of it, they are labelled right away (as evidenced in this thread) as selfish and don't want to help the poor. So of course they only dig they feet deeper into the sand in defense mode.

The main thing is helping people to regain their self-esteem, sense of self worth, job creation, helping them find jobs and positively empowering them. We all know of people who lose their jobs and end up in desperate situations who would still refuse to sign up for welfare because of the stigma attached and their sense of pride. And when they do end up on it, you can bet your top dollar that they are most uncomfortable and desirous of getting out of it. They shouldn't be lampooned too.

Excellent point. And for people in this situation I daresay is the point of welfare in the first place. A temporary fix to a temporary problem. Not a permanent source of income for a certain class of society, which is what it has mostly become.

Now you have some communities of people, examples of where 3 generations of families have lived on welfare (probably shuniqua types of this world with 5 kids). Sadly but understandably, most of those kids grow up thinking that's the only way. These are the ones that need to helped out and they are much better ways of doing it than allowing them to starve cuz that's what the Bible says. So fine Shuniqua is an irresponsible parent. Should we allow her five "innocent" kids die of starvation too? - The problem of trying to figure out who is genuine and who is irresponsible a non-trivial problem and one that we likely won't resolve on the fine pages of nairaland.

Very well said again. And I never advocated letting the kids starve by the way, just that some measure of accountability be levied on the parents. I believe that if we continue to hand out checks no questions asked, we're directly sanctioning and nourishing this endless cycle. And also because the system as it is cannot be sustained long-term.

Welfare isn't an isolated issue. The main reason it's come to the fore now is because of the current bad and unhealthy state of the economy.

I don't think its even in the fore now at all. It just happened to come up in the course of the conversation. At least I haven't heard it being discussed on a national level.

It's poor people who are on welfare. They are the easy target. Everyone is angry about the economy so let's channel our anger on the poor people claiming welfare who are draining the system; never mind that they aren't really the ones who put us in this mess in the first place. Nope, those were the rich fat cats in high places. But no one wants to talk about those. They're untouchable. It's the big fat elephant in the room and it's pink too!

I personally haven't heard anyone attack the poor. Infact just the opposite. The national anger has by far and far being directed at the CEO's and "fat-cats" of wall street, not main street.

  Overall, nicely done Omo~fat. Very nice. You brought some balance I didn't think to mention before. Kudos.

JeSoul:

Brilliant it was sir . Dunno about recharged and ready to go but we'll see. . .

You're doing great so far.

Lol. Posh and double-barreled? if we do a quick poll how do you think the voting will go? 

Ah my dear, we both know better than to trust the polls and pollsters o - depends on how we frame the question . They told us Obama was going to win NH in the primaries 

Good points. You're right a few on the left 'demonize' the entire bunch and call them all "lazy" and "irresponsible". But my dude, I know better. I have been fortunate to live, work and volunteer amongst the "urban" generation (hate that term) and[b] I know[/b] that many times its not as simple or straightforward as "they don't want to work". People are truly destitute and down-trodden, hopeless in every sense of the word. Poor, insecure, live in terrible neighborhoods, no hope for the future. I was almost in tears last night watching the news of a mother and her 2yr old gunned down 2 days ago in Boston. These are not the people drawing my ire or that of others. I also see daily, teenage mothers with 3 kids, whose only source of income comes from the govt. They laugh about it, saying they will have more so they can get more money. How is a hardworking citizen of this country who feeds her supposed to react to that?

I agree completely and I share your empathy towards the downtrodden. Naturally the hardworking citizens react to the cheats with anger and justifiably so.

  I have seen both sides, and this is how I also know its frustrating to those on the other side when many liberals will not acknowledge that the system is terribly broken and needs fixing. They dismiss it as "just a few bad eggs". When people suggest and criticize the elements taking advantage of it, they are labelled right away (as evidenced in this thread) as selfish and don't want to help the poor. So of course they only dig they feet deeper into the sand in defense mode.
Excellent point. And for people in this situation I daresay is the point of welfare in the first place. A temporary fix to a temporary problem. Not a permanent source of income for a certain class of society, which is what it has mostly become.
Very well said again. And I never advocated letting the kids starve by the way, just that some measure of accountability be levied on the parents. I believe that if we continue to hand out checks no questions asked, we're directly sanctioning and nourishing this endless cycle. And also because the system as it is cannot be sustained long-term.
I don't think its even in the fore now at all. It just happened to come up in the course of the conversation. At least I haven't heard it being discussed on a national level.
  I personally haven't heard anyone attack the poor. Infact just the opposite. The national anger has by far and far being directed at the CEO's and "fat-cats" of wall street, not main street.

Some of the rhetoric may have been directed at the CEOs and fat-cats but none of the policies have really affected them directly. All the spending freeze debates, current tax rate debates, etc all hit the poor disproportionately more than the rich. Personally, if I were a wall street CEO, I wouldn't mind much being called a fat-cat and having much of the verbal anger directed at me as long as they didn't enact policies that touched my bottomline, raised my taxes, etc. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words . . . . .

  Overall, nicely done Omo~fat. Very nice. You brought some balance I didn't think to mention before. Kudos.

Muchos gracias mi amiga. You are fine fine lady Ma'am.

When I do finally take the plunge, I would sincerely hope and pray that the Mrs would have and exhibit half the grace and charm you display on here daily.

omo~fat:

Ah my dear, we both know better than to trust the polls and pollsters o - depends on how we frame the question . They told us Obama was going to win NH in the primaries

Hehe, na true you talk . . . I also heard madam winch O'Donnell was down by 10 points on the day of the primaries lol.

Some of the rhetoric may have been directed at the CEOs and fat-cats but none of the policies have really affected them directly. All the spending freeze debates, current tax rate debates, etc all hit the poor disproportionately more than the rich. Personally, if I were a wall street CEO, I wouldn't mind much being called a fat-cat and having much of the verbal anger directed at me as long as they didn't enact policies that touched my bottomline, raised my taxes, etc. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words . . . . .

I think you're mostly right on that. I know banks who received bail-out funds are restricted in what they can do, how much they can pay ceo's and contractors etc. Overall its going to be hard to 'regulate' these bodies considering the american system, in that I sympathize with Obama and his administration. Capitalism has its demons, and they are fiercely ugly and I don't know that its opposite is any prettier.

And if you were a wall street CEO, we would not even see your brake light on a lowly common-man site like NL .

Muchos gracias mi amiga. You are fine fine lady Ma'am.

When I do finally take the plunge, I would sincerely hope and pray that the Mrs would have and exhibit half the grace and charm you display on here daily.

you sure say this flattery is not misplaced on the wrong person? Thank you oh! you are too kind and too smart self, pesin has to bring their A-game if they want to spar with you oh! lol. And don't mind those people that say its a plunge, a jump down . . . its more like jumping upwards and somehow not falling back down. Na so your own go be. Amen!

Amen and Amen!

Thank you

omo~fat:



Muchos gracias mi amiga. You are fine fine lady Ma'am.

When I do finally take the plunge, I would sincerely hope and pray that the Mrs would have and exhibit half the grace and charm you display on here daily.

na wa o this thread don derail. Moderator!!!!!!!!

pres-elect:

na wa o this thread don derail. Moderator!!!!!!!!

hahaha, Pres no vex o

make we continue to dey bash democratic PR machine.

Hopefully sha, now wey Rahm don comot, maybe dis new guy go help Obama restructure im operations and messaging. Fingers crossed.

See, Thread back on track, no wahala

dayokanu:

I think the welfare system is being seriously abused.

I know a girl who has 3 kids and all her baby daddies dont work, She struggles with 2 jobs while her friend who has 5 kids hasnt been working  for at least 7yrs and she makes more in Welfare, food stamps and govt aid than the other girl who works.

She was now asking if it makes sense for her to continue working while her friend just sit at home and make money from Govt handout.

Nobody is denying its abuse. People take advantage of systems put in place for a good cause and it is not only seen in welfare. For example: Women are given the benefit the doubt more than the men under US laws but some women have abused that leverage by making false claims. Should we propose for its ban because of the unscrupulous women who abuse it?.
There is a difference between a plea for more structured welfare and campaign against it totally. Also, welfare is not about getting money, the government gives the parent/guardian aid so his/her kids can feed, learn and have shelter. Anyone who aspires towards collecting such aid must be a scum of the earth and govt does not give welfare to adults who refuse to work. So, a woman who thrives on welfare checks will one day run out of them when her children grows. Nigeria or US, I believe in the welfare system and I also believe we will have less alaye and almajiri if our government tax its citizens to feed the children. If that happens eventually, all the babas who marry 10 wives will continue breeding children at the expense of hard working Nigerians especially Igbo people but WHO CARES as long as the children are well fed.

I think when it comes to welfare our expectations for forthrightness is misplaced. America, from its beginnings, is a country of entitlement. . . beginning with land grab. It is no crime when the grab is done by people that look and share ancestry with the founders. It becomes an issue and a thorn on their side only when outsiders discover the trick and join in.