TruthinAction:


Jonah died and he talked about the pains of hell.
Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the BELLY OF HELL CRIED I, and thou heardest my voice.

His lifeless body was in the fish belly but his soul was in the belly of hell until it was reunited with his body just as the fish vomited him out.

Where the did the bible detach the soul from the body of Jonah?

budaatum:

Your speculation is not a theory then! There's no tests verifying reincarnation.

and neither is there any theory discrediting it

EmperorHarry:
It would be cos of the damage over the years like China which is largely polluted and as such inhabitants run the risk of airborne diseases etc.This doesn't really connect this damages to afterlife beliefs although it is responsible for it in some cases. The lifestyle and eating habits of an individual can increase or decrease the length of one's life.Other factors come into play like the standard of living,state of utilities in a country etc.

I've posted life expectancy of advanced China and a few other countries below for you to compare. Perhaps you'd understand why China, which used to be very heavily invested in the ignorance of the afterlife that they buried their dead with their living, now live longer than those other nations.

vaxx:
and neither is there any theory discrediting it

Agreed. There's no theory discrediting the fact that I claim to have 4 heads on my two shoulders neither, so I have 4 heads on my two shoulders.

Jozzy4:


Why is it that none of those who died and come to life in the Bible give such stories ?.

Do not " PAY ATTENTION TO FALSE STORIES " 1 Tim 1:4

Well, they might have given such stories, and it simply wasn't recorded. For example, consider Lazarus. Lazarus never gives a report of such a story, but on the other hand Lazarus's words aren't recorded at all. So he might have said something about it, he might not have; we just don't know.

On the other hand, it is notable that in the case of 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, when someone does say they experienced such a vision, they said they were not permitted to speak of it.

The bigger problem I have with these stories of those who claim to have seen heaven or hell is that if you compare their stories with each other, they frequently don't line up, with their descriptions of heaven and hell contradicting each other. One would think that, if these experiences were real, they would all be seeing the same thing... but that isn't the case. Maybe there are some real ones among all of these, but how do you determine which ones they are? See if they line up with Scripture? Assuming your interpretation of Scripture is correct, in that case the experiences are meaningless because the only ones you can trust are the ones you already believe! As John Owen is credited as saying: "If private revelations agree with Scripture, they are needless, and if they disagree, they are false."

SKhanmi:
Down through the ages before we arrived at this nadir of humanity... there were always tales of the afterlife.. across all civilizations..hints about possibilities of a kind of life beyond the grave..reincarnation...even among our native religions before western influence overran all. We dismissed them as stupid uncultured primitives...Now modern humanity is mostly ignorant. Few actually think for themselves. Few actually question. And now we swallow crumbs of misinformation from carefully created sources of information and we think we've known all what is.

Let me tell you this..

Reincarnation is Real
The Afterlife is real
There's more to life both here on the physical planes & The spiritual.
Whatever you've been taught are mostly incorrect.

To give you an hint cos this is a one time post...Wont reply again.......When you die..a Christian will go to heaven/hell,Muslims etc to their respective views of the afterlife. But it won't last. Why? We ourselves by our beliefs gave power to their creations. Very efficient way of holding us back from the next level of development. Let the slaves forge their own chains huh?. Then you get sent back to earth with insomnia to continue another cycle of life again. Then Repeat. Imagine repeating ss2 for life. That's why most think life is meaningless.


Think of this earth has a farm & the harvest as humans. Imagine if we all reincarnated with our past memories..experiences.. karma events...? Eventually the number of beings that would chose good over evil will increase in every era till we finally achieve.. The highest form of development.

But nah,Those who keep you want you to continue trial & error, continue destroying both the planet & humanity..to become everlasting slaves..while waiting for someone..for something...while they use you as an energy source.

When you remember who you are...you will move forward.
Seek the truth & be set free.

i would have loved to ask one or two questions, but because u said its going to be a one time post, i will just keep my questions to myself

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budaatum:

Agreed. There's no theory discrediting the fact that I claim to have 4 heads on my two shoulders neither, so I have 4 heads on my two shoulders.[

This is not speculation buda, this is wilful thinking. It is not welcome in science.,wilfull and careless attempts aren't speculation. What you wrote there are erroneous opinion. It isn't speculation. And likewise, any persistent repetition of properly refuted, failed, debunked, discarded hypotheses, or theories, or unevidenced fanciful notions is not speculation too.


Reincarnation has gotten its own evidence, it hasn't been discarded, therefore you can't place it similar to wilful thinking.

budaatum:

I've posted life expectancy of advanced China and a few other countries below for you to compare. Perhaps you'd understand why China, which used to be very heavily invested in the ignorance of the afterlife that they buried their dead with their living, now live longer than those other nations.

This is confirmation bias. Why don't you use Japan with its shintoism or isreal with its Judaism. Or even qatar with her islam. There are many factors that warrant long life. And it is more of economy and political discipline rather than religion brouhaha

EmperorHarry:

Interesting how you mentioned points that I did without prior knowledge on my part the post or the Yoruba version of reincarnation. Fingers crossed on the whole reincarnation thing tho cos it's only just a probability.
Although I still hold it shouldn't be seen as a consolation as you have no previous record or info of your past life subjectively but some YouTube videos I've seen have shown children that recalled their pasts lives vividly,this could just be a hoax or propaganda but that's why I still keep an open mind on the whole reincarnation theory.It could just be a valid theory.

there are YouTube video for anything you practically want. And the only means of identify geniue video now on YouTube is by who owns it.


Reincarnation is still a debate that has a lot of philosophical breakthru but yet to ratify the science lens. As an open minded individual, i am open to its possibility.

budaatum:

I've posted life expectancy of advanced China and a few other countries below for you to compare. Perhaps you'd understand why China, which used to be very heavily invested in the ignorance of the afterlife that they buried their dead with their living, now live longer than those other nations.

I got your point since but I'm only disagreeing cos I feel that if we went back in time before the colonisation of Nigeria you'd find a much longer life expectancy due to way of life.Apart from illnesses which are easily cured today by advanced medical facilities these people even till today live way past 80.The current situation is due to the stress,polluted environment,unhealthy and disappointing state of foodstuff and produce in the country. You'd find that it's developing countries that are below.Find out the life expectancy in Saudi Arabia and maybe Italy.

vaxx:
there are YouTube video for anything you practically want. And the only means of identify geniue video now i on YouTube s by who owns it.


Reincarnation is still a debate that has a lot of philosophical breakthru but yet to ratify the science lens. As an open minded individual, i am open to hits possibility.

Like I said,fingers crossed. But honestly I'd like to very sure about what happens after death is and I am not.Just I'd be sure of what I'm getting into but oh well.Fingers crossed

EmperorHarry:

I got your point since but I'm only disagreeing cos I feel that if we went back in time before the colonisation of Nigeria you'd find a much longer life expectancy due to way of life.

No you wouldn't. What you'd find is more mothers and children dying at birth and shorter life spans in general. Not only for Nigeria, but everywhere.

EmperorHarry:

Find out the life expectancy in Saudi Arabia and maybe Italy.

vaxx:
This is confirmation bias. Why don't you use Japan with its shintoism or isreal with its Judaism. Or even qatar with her islam. There are many factors that warrant long life. And it is more of economy and political discipline rather than religion brouhaha

There is indeed more to life expectancy that a belief in the afterlife. You'd however find that nations that believe more in the afterlife are generally less developed.

Japan Shintoism does not have an afterlife that one goes to per se, unlike the Christian and Islam belief in a heaven, and is currently heavily influenced by Buddhism. And Israel is not predominantly Judaic at all!

Nations that predominantly aspire to an afterlife do not tend to spend much effort making this life heaven, on the whole at least.

vaxx:


Reincarnation has gotten its own evidence, it hasn't been discarded, therefore you can't place it similar to wilful thinking.

Well, maybe don't just assert that there is evidence for reincarnation. We would not accept assertions for creationism so you should not expect one to accept it for reincarnation.

Present your evidence for reincarnation for review please.

budaatum:

There is indeed more to life expectancy that a belief in the afterlife. You'd however find that nations that believe more in the afterlife are generally less developed.

Japan Shintoism does not have an afterlife that one goes to per se, unlike the Christian and Islam belief in a heaven, and is currently heavily influenced by Buddhism. And Israel is not predominantly Judaic at all!

Nations that predominantly aspire to an afterlife do not tend to spend much effort making this life heaven, on the whole at least.

i disagree with you on this Buda. Japan Shinto has a concept called Kami or yomi which is believed that human is a separate entity of the body, after death of the body , the soul another entity living in the body live forever in the land of the spirit . Japan has one of the highest long span on earth exceeding Germany the most materialistic nation in Europe by absolute number.

Isreal too has the same similar veiw of the Muslim and Christian about life after death ( heaven and hell) yet she is one of the country with highest long span on earth. Your hypothesis is flawed, there are many examples of many nations where majority believe in after life and still has the best of economy and robust political system. If Vatican is a fully independent republic, she will be one of the best country in Europe.


The belive in after life has nothing to do with development or long life span as you wanted to insinuate . It is more of economical and political structure.

budaatum:

Well, maybe don't just assert that there is evidence for reincarnation. We would not accept assertions for creationism so you should not expect one to accept it for reincarnation.

Present your evidence for reincarnation for review please.

creationism evidence had been debunked thoroughly and there is none even to argue anymore. I repeat none... most of what they have now is not even against evolution but on abiogenesis


About reincarnation evidence, i provided a link here , go give it a read buda.

vaxx:
i disagree with you on this Buda. Japan has a concept called Kami or yomi which is believed that human is a separate entity of the body, after death of the body , the soul another entity living in the body live forever in the land of the spirit . Japan has one of the highest long span on earth earth exceeding Germany the most materialistic nation in Europe by absolute number.

Isreal too has the same similar veiw of the the Muslim and Christian about life after death ( heaven and hell) yet she is one of the country with highest long span on earth. Your hypothesis is flawed, there are many examples of many nations where najority believe in after life and still has the best of economy and robust political system. If Vatican is a fully independent republic, she will be one of the best country in Europe.


The belive in after life has nothing to do with development or long life span as you wanted to insinuate . It is more of economical and political structure.

You'd find both Israel and Japan do not share the sort of belief in an afterlife that Nigeria has. Israel, in fact, has, on the whole, evolved their religion to very close to atheism and Japanese religion is heavily influenced by Buddhism which has no afterlife.

vaxx:


About reincarnation evidence, i provided a link here , go give it a read buda.

This is you!

vaxx:

Reincarnation is still a debate that has a lot of philosophical breakthru but yet to ratify the science lens. As an open minded individual, i am open to its possibility.

Would I be correct to say you are openminded about reincarnation because you have not come across compelling evidence either way?

I'm certain that if you had compelling evidence you'd have closed your mind for or against already.

Here is you again presenting speculation as fact!

vaxx:
life itself is about probability.... The chances that it is true ... Is what i presented...

budaatum:

You'd find both Israel and Japan do not share the sort of belief in an afterlife that Nigeria has. Israel, in fact, has, on the whole, evolved their religion to very close to atheism and Japanese religion is heavily influenced by Buddhism which has no afterlife.

which isreal ?

The ultra-Orthodox, far-right Israelis who spit at 8-year-old girls on their way to school and call them ‘prostitutes’ because they are wearing a skirt, and demand that women don’t use the same pavements as men. When it comes to religion dogma. Nigeria is more liberal than isreal.


https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/battle-rages-for-moral-control-of-holy-land-1.30833


Japan is developed country, Nigeria is not. The political and economy structure influence japan society not the dogma. Nigeria economically is still a backwater. This is not because she is more religious than the former but because she lacks the political will of the former.

According to Buddha, you probably might not have come across ""Theravada Buddhism"", it is similar to Hinduism idea of reincarnation. It is believed one will recycle in birth, grow old and death (in higher lifeform or lower lifeform) again and again if one does not release from cycles of life (reach Nirvana) yet. This is reincarnation in a sense but differ from Yoruba concept ad well.

budaatum:
Here is you again presenting speculation as fact!

i presented probability. And i back it up with evidence. That is not fact. Every chances of life falls on probability. There is no certainity to any phenomenom. We can only approximate. And the more our approximation is closer to the truth, the more will take it as valid evidence.

budaatum:

This is you!

Would I be correct to say you are openminded about reincarnation because you have not come across compelling evidence either way?

I'm certain that if you had compelling evidence you'd have closed your mind for or against already.

i am always willing to question my faith. Do you have compelling evidence to reject reincarnation?

vaxx:
i presented probability. And i back it up with evidence. That is not fact. Every chances of life falls on probability. There is no certainity to any phenomenom. We can only approximate. And the more our approximation is closer to the truth, the more will take it as valid evidence.

I know you know what evidence is vaxx, and you have not provided any to back anything up!

Why would you not accept that creationism is probably true because there is no certainty?

vaxx:
i am always willing to question my faith. Do you have compelling evidence to reject reincarnation?

Yes! All the research into it has not shown it to be untrue! And not accepting it isn't is equivalent to believing there's a million pounds in an empty pocket, and I am personally not that way inclined!

TruthinAction:


Jonah died and he talked about the pains of hell.
Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the BELLY OF HELL CRIED I, and thou heardest my voice.

His lifeless body was in the fish belly but his soul was in the belly of hell until it was reunited with his body just as the fish vomited him out.

HEY EVERYONE, PLEASE STOP POSTING FOR NOW!!
This is a serious claim. Thats why i freaking love christians, with their God, all lies are possible. Hallelujah!!!
Our dear truthinaction, please enlighten us more about this wonderful tale of Jonahs soul taking a tour of HELL.

vaxx:
which isreal ?

The ultra-Orthodox, far-right Israelis who spit at 8-year-old girls on their way to school and call them ‘prostitutes’ because they are wearing a skirt, and demand that women don’t use the same pavements as men. When it comes to religion dogma. Nigeria is more liberal than isreal.


https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/battle-rages-for-moral-control-of-holy-land-1.30833

A minority vaxx!

vaxx:

Japan is developed country, Nigeria is not. The political and economy structure influence japan society not the dogma. Nigeria economically is still a backwater. This is not because she is more religious than the former but because she lacks the political will of the former.

I have not claimed Nigeria's non-development is because it is religious. I would however claim that the sort of religion practised in Nigeria is a factor in our lack of development.

Nations that treat their religions as 'beliefs' tend to be more backward than those that have advanced to 'understanding' their religion. Israel is an 'understanding' nation, while Nigeria is a 'believing' nation.

vaxx:
According to Buddha, you probably might not have come across ""Theravada Buddhism"", it is similar to Hinduism idea of reincarnation. It is believed one will recycle in birth, grow old and death (in higher lifeform or lower lifeform) again and again if one does not release from cycles of life (reach Nirvana) yet. This is reincarnation in a sense but differ from Yoruba concept ad well.

Vaxx will teach buda about Buddhism. Lol!

Within Japanese Zen, reincarnation is accepted by some, but rejected by others. A distinction can be drawn between "folk Zen", as in the Zen practiced by devotional lay people, and "philosophical Zen". Folk Zen generally accepts the various supernatural elements of Buddhism such as rebirth. Philosophical Zen, however, places more emphasis on the present moment.

The above applies to all religions. There is "folk religion" and "philosophical religion". Even in Yoruba religions you'd find a difference between the lay persons understanding and your's. Nations that predominantly practise "folk religion" are more likely to be more backward than those who don't. And by predominantly, I'm saying not by numbers, but by the leaders. Nations with more philosophically religious leaders progress further than nations where the leaders practise "folk religion".

Israel is an example of a nation that practices philosophical religion, while we Nigerians practise "folk religion". 'Philosophical' nations understand. 'Folk' nations believe.

budaatum:

Yes! All the research into it has not shown it to be untrue! And not accepting it isn't is equivalent to believing there's a million pounds in an empty pocket, and I am personally not that way inclined!

There is logical explanation for reincarnation Buddha. You only need to stop this prejudice and be open minded to the discussion.

budaatum:

I know you know what evidence is vaxx, and you have not provided any to back anything up!

Why would you not accept that creationism is probably true because there is no certainty?

creationism rebuttal had been debunked over time. I repeat. And the probability of their presentation being true is moving and getting closer to zeros.

One of the philosophical apraoch to reincarnation is this concept called ""problem of identity over time"" give it a read on Google.

vaxx:
There is logical explanation for reincarnation Buddha. You only need to stop this prejudice and give in an open minded to the discussion.

Hopefully you are aware that logical does not necessarily mean valid and true, nor is logical, evidence!

Still, provide your "logical explanation for reincarnation" vaxx.

vaxx:
creationism rebuttal had been debunked over time. I repeat. And the probability of their presentation being true is moving and getting closer to zeros.

One of the philosophical apraoch to reincarnation is this concept called ""problem of identity over time"" give it a read on Google.

No vaxx. I'm not accepting this throw the kitchen sink approach of yours! The "problem of identity over time" was dealt with in one of Johnydon22 wonderful threads where we discussed he and my Lordreed changing bodies, and whether a ship that had all it's parts changed was the same ship it was before. They might remind me what what the thread was called so you can read it.

The "problem of identity over time" is not in any way evidence for reincarnation but philosophical speculation, at best.

budaatum:

A minority vaxx!

The bottom line, isreal is a religious country. No need to go forth and back.

I have not claimed Nigeria's non-development is because it is religious. I would however claim that the sort of religion practised in Nigeria is a factor in our lack of development.

what ever religious dogma Nigeria followed does not have anything to do with development. Nigeria is more liberal than Qatar and saudi Arabia yet this nation are moving closer to a developed country.

Nations that treat their religions as 'beliefs' tend to be more backward than those that have advanced to 'understanding' their religion. Israel is an 'understanding' nation, while Nigeria is a 'believing' nation.

This is erroneous claim as you have no solid proof to back it up. Even in Africa, Egypt is practically doing well than than any African country bar south Africa. Yet she is very religious.

Vaxx will teach buda about Buddhism. Lol!

Within Japanese Zen, reincarnation is accepted by some, but rejected by others. A distinction can be drawn between "folk Zen", as in the Zen practiced by devotional lay people, and "philosophical Zen". Folk Zen generally accepts the various supernatural elements of Buddhism such as rebirth. Philosophical Zen, however, places more emphasis on the present moment.

You don't need to go thru all this jokes. Not all Christian even in Nigeria believe in heaven and hell . Some treat it as a state of the mind, not all Christian belive in hell fire. Different opinion to different people. So is Buddhism. I only identify the type of Buddha affiliate with such belive.

The above applies to all religions. There is "folk religion" and "philosophical religion". Even in Yoruba religions you'd find a difference between the lay persons understanding and your's. Nations that predominantly practise "folk religion" are more likely to be more backward than those who don't. And by predominantly, I'm saying not by numbers, but by the leaders. Nations with more philosophically religious leaders progress further than nations where the leaders practise "folk religion".

This isn't true. UAE , Qatar, Saudi Arabia proof this notion wrong.

Israel is an example of a nation that practices philosophical religion, while we Nigerians practise "folk religion". 'Philosophical' nations understand. 'Folk' nations believe.

i haven't heard of any nation practicing such except from you Buddha. The bottom line isreal is religion country which gives value and interpretation to religion in her constitution. Isreal the land of Jews.

budaatum:

No vaxx. I'm not accepting this throw the kitchen sink approach of yours! The "problem of identity over time" was dealt with in one of Johnydon22 wonderful threads where we discussed he and my Lordreed changing bodies, and whether a ship that had all it's parts changed was the same ship it was before. They might remind me what what the thread was called so you can read it.

The "problem of identity over time" is not in any way evidence for reincarnation but philosophical speculation, at best.

speculation is science and the first realm of knolwedge. Case close.