These are things I shouldn't have to tell adults.

prolog3111:


[s]I'm getting tired of all these.
You are way less intelligent than you think you are.
You have used several wrong reasonnings and pre-admitted conclusions and outright lies:[/s]

1) don't tell an Edo what his tradition says, he and he alone can telle you what his tradition says.

2) tradition, wtf ?

3) you take as a fact that the Edo account says that the Edo didn't wear beads before 1300, this is a higly illogical argument because no Edo has recollection of what took place more than 700 years before his grand father was born. And the Edo that I am has never heard any Edo say what you claim.

4) rather than only making claims of an excavation, provide a link to the lab which conducted the research and their work on the matter.

5) [s]fact: The beaded uniform of The Oba of Benin is older than any beads worn by any Yoruba. Indeed the early photos of Yoruba chiefs except those who belongs yo Benin empire (and accepted the label Yoruba in postcolonial or colonial Nigeria) don't show your chiefs wearing beads. And the beaded uniform of the Oba of Benin predator Nigeria, probably by some centuries.[/s]

6) the earliest records by Benin bronze show the Oba of Benin already wearing beads, and some of the bronzes were made as early as 1300. Besides, a close look at the beads on Yoruba statues shows they are not the same type as Benin needs. Benin beads are cylindrical while the Yoruba ones a spherical.

[s]Oh, I didn't read your name before replying. I had already noticed your lack of consistency in previous encounters with you and I clearly told you that you were too dumb to be in this conversation. My opinion hasn't changed. You only master the art of writing long texts, but there is no matter, no logics in what you write. Just some hot thin air, just a bluff. Try and act with intellectual honesty rather than hoping to bore the readers with long fraudulent texts which nobody has the time to completely address. To help make your transition into a real intellectual, just read my comments. The art of reasoning well is never a gift, you have to archive it through hard mental gymnastics. You are not there yet.[/s]

(1.) You may actually tell someone what their tradition says IF they are starkly ignorant about it, or they are bent on lying about it because of their low self-esteem. But provided there is evidence to substantiate such information.

Refer to your Benin website viz. http://www.edofolks.com/html/pub8.htm for evidence that Benin tradition claims that Ewuare1 was responsible for introducing beads into Benin culture.

See also an Academic attestation (of Yoruba people sorry, of the University of Iowa) to this Benin tradition: viz. https://africa.uima.uiowa.edu/topic-essays/show/4?start=1 confirming that the Benin tradition claims that Ewuare1 was responsible for introducing beads into Benin culture.


(3) Since you noted that you were, before now, unaware of what I said about Bini tradition's claim (that Ewuare1 introduced the use of coral beads to the Binis), I believe that you've now added something "substantial" to your knowledge base, courtesy the academic acknowledgement of the tradition as I have attached them.

And if you still don't believe your own Bini tradition on who it claims introduced the use of beads to the Edos, then what can I do?

Moreover, your claim that people cannot recount what took place before their grandfather was born is not only baseless but also absurd and ridiculous.

At the moment, I could recollect certain episodes narrated to me by my grandfather about an event which was not witnessed by him but by his own grandfather.

Read up on what is called oral-tradition, you ridiculous and desperate liar.


(4) You claimed that I'm simply "making claims of an excavation" as though the sculpture was actually excavated from Benin kingdom and not from Ife.

Anyways, just to enlighten you as you've requested to be enlightened, the sculpture was found at Ita Yemoo, Ife on "22 November 1957", and the British Art Historian and archaeologist of the University of Glasgow, Frank Willett, has documented a detailed report of this find as well his investigation from the same site (i.e. Ita Yemo) in the journal article: "Bronze and Terra-Cotta Sculptures from Ita Yemoo, Ife"

Refer to Frank Willett, "Bronze and Terra-Cotta Sculptures from Ita Yemoo, Ife", The South African Archaeological Bulletin Vol. 14, No. 56 (Dec., 1959), pp. 135-137

Find attached screenshots of the relevant pages (i.e. page 135 and Plate IV) for your use. And you may access the full report at: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3886983?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents


Moreover, at the time of publishing the foregoing article, the finds have not been dated. Frank Willett made this quite clear in pages 136 and 137 when he said that "so much of it occurs at Ita Yemoo that we can look forward soon to a fairly firm dating" and where he said, regarding the bronze sculptures, that "when and how this happened remains obscure."

However, a later work of the prominent Historian of African Art and Architecture, Professor Suzanne P. Blier of Havard University dates this particular Ife bronze/brass cast to the early fourteenth century. Refer to the third attached screenshot. You may also, refer to page 76 of the full work here:

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/blier/files/blier.pdf


(5) Provide evidence for your claim here.

Moreover, did you stop believing your own words that you can't know what took place many years before your grandfather was born? How come you know that the Oba of Benin's so-called "uniform" dates to very ancient times?


(6) Yes, it is true that some early Benin bronzes depict the use of beads in Benin kingdom.

But guess what, you LIED when you suggested that some of these Benin bronzes which depict the use of beads were made as early as 1300. --- Provide your evidence from any scholarly/academic source, I challenge you.

On the contrary, the Benin bronzes which depict the use of beads dates earliest to the 15th century (i.e. the 1400s) while some of them date to as late as the 19th century (i.e. the 1800s).

Refer to the British Museum Catalogue of Benin artefacts here for evidence of the dates of some of them. You may go through all the twenty-five slides if you wish.

https://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=610491&partId=1&searchText=benin+bronze+oba&page=1


You have just been busted again!

"Brass plaques and sculptures have been created by the Edo (known also as the Bini), the indigenous people of the Benin Empire, as early as the 13th century, prior to their contact with Europeans. "

(13th century: 1200's)


https://www.ancient-origins.net/artifacts-other-artifacts/benin-bronzes-tragic-story-slavery-and-imperialism-cast-brass-008565

I hate the author, and I disagree with his statement about Benin empire getting the raw material for the brass through slave trade, but here it is.

God, I hate talking to idiots. Tao, you are the biggest fool on nairaland who refuses to take corrections and would continue debating an already finished debate. A debate is not a shouting match. There have to be rules such as following logics and bowing down when proof is given, if not it is just a big nonsensical rubbish.

You act in the most irrational manner.
I catch you quoting preston Blair again ! You Yoruba it seems that womam is your God, you can' t even pretend to debate history without mentioning her name.

Also, no Benin item portraying the Oba shows him without Beads. Tao, I find it weird that you keep asking for proof while you provide none. You just make claims and ask whomever disagrees to disprove them while you never proved them in the first place.

Also I see the dating of your Yoruba item is just a big mess yet again. You couldn't provide proof of the dating...

The reason some people mentioned your gender is the fact you are very irrational. And you don't even seem to be aware of your lack of common sense, your endless emotional outbursts, your inconsistencies and your shamelessness.

I deal with logics, not emotions. In my line of work you bow down to proof. You don't try to trick people. Truth and facts matter.

Try and make just one short comment with sense rather than all your long boring comments with 0 sense. You have already admitted to not being a scholar. Well, I am a scholar ! We do not belong to the same league or perhaps even species.

For the dating of the Oba of Benin's uniform, it is just pure facts and logics. That uniform was seized by the British military from Oba Ovonramwen when Benin lost the war against britain, it was later returned to Oba Eweka, the first son of Oba Ovonramwen. Some other uniforms of the Oba of Benin were not returned and some are still in the British museum.

Your ooni can testify, go to date 2:17 of the following video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxZAXb0XVwI

prolog3111:


"Brass plaques and sculptures have been created by the Edo (known also as the Bini), the indigenous people of the Benin Empire, as early as the 13th century, prior to their contact with Europeans. "

(13th century: 1200's)


https://www.ancient-origins.net/artifacts-other-artifacts/benin-bronzes-tragic-story-slavery-and-imperialism-cast-brass-008565

I hate the author, and I disagree with his statement about Benin empire getting the brass through slave trade, but here it is.

God, I hate talking to idiots. Tao, you are the biggest fool on nairaland who refuses to take corrections and would continue debating an already finished debate. A debate is not a shouting match. There have to be rules such as following logics and bowing down when proof is given, if not it is just a big nonsensical rubbish.

You act in the most irrational manner.

I catch you quoting preston Blair again ! You Yoruba it seems that womam is your God, you can' t even pretend to debate history without mentioning her name.

I would be repeating the obvious to call you a dummy!

The article you referenced unfortunately does not support what you're desperate to put forward.

Your contention which I challenged you on was your claim that:

Some Benin bronzes showing the Oba of Benin wearing beads were made as early as the 1300s.

I then challenged you to provide evidence of Benin bronzes depicting the use of beads as early as 1300.

In reply, you submitted a statement to the effect that the Binis casted some Bronze/brass plaques and sculpture as early as 13th century, without any mention of what these 13th-century plaques and sculptures are.

Your so-called evidence makes no mention of whether these earliest plaques and sculpture represent animals, objects, or even humans, let alone a king, and let alone a king adorned with beads.

Of course, every historian knows that bronze/brass casting was introduced to Benin during the reign of Oba Oguola (who reigned from 1280 to 1259 --- i.e. 13th century). But the question here is not about when the Binis became civilized into the art and craft of bronze/brass casting.

Instead, the question here is about your claim that there are some Benin bronze cast of certain OBAs OF BENIN, ADORNED IN BEADS, and dated to as early as the 1300s

This is the claim which you must provide evidence for, not your desperate modification about since when the Binis have casted any bronze at all.


On the other hand, I have provided you with a link to the British Museum Catalogue of Benin artefacts (although you feigned blind to it) which shows in some 25 slides, the specific dates (16th century earliest) of Benin bronze casts showing Obas of Benin adorned in beads.

I pity your willful ignorance.


Furthermore, I am not sure what your problem with the Havard Professor of the History of African Art and Architecture, Suzanne P. Blier is.

I think the burden lies with you to prove why you strongly believe that a Havard expert of the History of African Art and Architecture should never be cited when discussing the History of African Arts.

After proving that, then proceed to mention who should be cited (instead of experts) when discussing the History of African Arts.

Lol ...

There are more than 7000 Benin bronze which are known to have been plundered by the British. Showing only 25 pictures of Benin items and their dating is fairly ridiculous. Benin also made carved Ivory, carved wooden artworks, sculptures and so on. Many of these were seized by British soldiers. Almost all Benin artwork depict the Oba, his mother or hid generals. And they are all wearing beads. So it appears clear that if some of the bronze date yo the 13th century, then there are some Benin bronze made in the 13th century which show the Obs already wearing beads. Also Benin artwork are in many western museums, not just Britain, almost every western country has them. They inspired the likes of picasso and some of them ended up in the collections of the likes of rockfeller and queen Elizabeth.

prolog3111:
Also, no Benin item portraying the Oba shows him without Beads. Tao, I find it weird that you keep asking for proof while you provide none. You just make claims and ask whomever disagrees to disprove them while you never proved them in the first place.

Also I see the dating of your Yoruba item is just a big mess yet again. You couldn't provide proof of the dating...

The reason some people mentioned your gender is the fact you are very irrational. And you don't even seem to be aware of your lack of common sense, your endless emotional outbursts, your inconsistencies and your shamelessness.

I deal with logics, not emotions. In my line of work you bow down to proof. You don't try to trick people. Truth and facts matter.

Try and make just one short comment with sense rather than all your long boring comments with 0 sense. You have already admitted to not being a scholar. Well, I am a scholar ! We do not belong to the same league or perhaps even species.

(1) Point out a claim which I have made, for which you've requested a proof, and to which I have replied without providing the requested proof.

(2) Point out a claim which I made and which I requested you to disprove without I myself having already provided the proof for.

(3) Regarding your claim that I couldn't provide a date of the Ife king sculpture:

It is not my fault that you have a problem with Havard University or her don (or both of them) because I have already provided you with the dating provided from Havard in the work of the Havard Professor of the History of African Art and Architecture, Suzanne P. Blier.


But since you've vowed never to accept the submission of a Havard expert of the History of African Art whenever the History of African Arts is being discussed; what then can I do?


Emancipate yourself from the dungeon of tribal delusion and "intellectual" stagnation. Only you can help yourself.

prolog3111:
Therefore are more than 7000 Benin bronze which are known to have been plundered by the British. Showing only 25 pictures of Benin items and their dating is fairly ridiculous. Benin also made carved Ivory, carved wooden artworks, sculptures and so on. Many of these were seized by British soldiers. Almost all Benin artwork depict the Oba, his mother or hid generals. And they are all wearing beads. So it appears clear that if some of the bronze date yo the 13th century, then there are some Benin bronze made in the 13th century which show the Obs already wearing beads. Also Benin artwork are in many western museums, not just Britain, almost every western country has them. They inspired the likes of picasso and some of them ended up in the collections of the likes of rockfeller and queen Elizabeth.

There is a principle in logic known as Onus probandi.

You have made a claim that Some Benin bronze cast of certain OBAs OF BENIN, ADORNED IN BEADS dated to as early as the 1300s.; It is you who must prove your own claim (i.e. this specific claim), I am not obliged to disprove you, stop being unfortunate.

So, provide your evidence, we are waiting.

Just like I have done in the case of the Ife bronze/brass sculpture of a full figure king excavated from Ita Yemoo, where I identified the sculpture, and I then showed its date in the work of a redoubtable scholar of the History of African Art.

Point out at least one artefact of Benin which similarly depicts the use of beads and also shows a date of 1300 or thereabout.


You already admitted that they are so many. So, we're waiting, just one is enough.

Obviously I have much better things to do than continue an already ended debate (which I won) with a slowpoke by the name tao.
Oh, I will have you reminded that Preston Blair is not a proper historian, she specialises on Yoruba art. Your endless mention of her name shows how little arguments you have. Your approach to history revolves around quoting Preston Blair.

As for architecture, I have seen photos of precolinal Yoruba "palaces" they look like crap. Benin had an advanced architecture, the palace of the Oba was large, beautiful and an architectural marvel. The doors even had locks.

My people can't be compared to yours, we had an advanced civilisation while your ancestors were nothing but savages or slaves or citizens of Oyo, dahomey, slaves in Brazil, slaves in fulani settlement ...

Also I am done. I have got work to do and also wasting my time on nairaland, I have done too much of that and can not reasonably afford too much of these or I might end up losing my job or my girlfriends.

Sayonara. Tao, you are one dumb person.

TAO11:


There is a principle in logic known as Onus probandi.

You have made a claim that Some Benin bronze cast of certain OBAs OF BENIN, ADORNED IN BEADS dated to as early as the 1300s.; It is you who must prove your own claim (i.e. this specific claim), I am not obliged to disprove you, stop being unfortunate.

So, provide your evidence, we are waiting.

Just like I have done in the case of the Ife bronze/brass sculpture excavated from Ita Yemoo, where I identified the sculpture, and I the showed its date in the work of a redoubtable scholar of the History of African Art.

Point out at least one artefact of Benin which similarly depicts the use of beads and also shows a date of 1300 or thereabout.


You already admitted that they are so many. So, we're waiting, just one is enough.

A little bit of advise: stop over hyping the people whom you quote. You sound like a broken uneducated record. Whomever you quote is the "best and most cmpetent human being on earth...". Justvrember you are nit selling a product. The work of the person you are quoting should speak for itself. It shouldn't need you as a spokesperson.
The dating of your Yoruba item is inexistant or without actual scientific backing.

And I am not a magician, I do not have Benin artwork in my possession. I can not provide what you ask for unless I do more digging up on the matter or visit a western museum. I live in France, so I can do both.

Don't you find it weird that The Edo art was actual fourniture in the Oba's palace while yours was dug up from the ground ?

prolog3111:
Obviously I have much better things to do than continue am already ended debate with a mirror by the name tao.
Oh, I will have you reminded that Preston Blair is not a proper historian, she specialises on Yoruba art. Your endless mention of her name shows how little arguments you have. Your approach to history revolves around quoting Preston Blair.

As for architecture, I have seen photos of precolinal Yoruba "palaces" they look like crap. Benin had an advanced architecture, the palace of the Oba was large, beautiful and an architectural profile. The doors even had locks.

My people can't be compared to yours, we had an advanced civilisation while your ancestors were nothing but savages or slaves or citizens of Oyo, dahomey, slaves in Brazil, slaves in fulani settlement ...

Also I am done. I have got work to do and also wasting my time on nairaland, I have done too much of that and can not reasonably afford too much of these or I might end up losing my job or my girlfriends.

Sayonara. Tao, you are one dumb person.

You will receive no further attention from me.

prolog3111:
Obviously I have much better things to do than continue am already ended debate with a mirror by the name tao.
Oh, I will have you reminded that Preston Blair is not a proper historian, she specialises on Yoruba art. Your endless mention of her name shows how little arguments you have. Your approach to history revolves around quoting Preston Blair.

As for architecture, I have seen photos of precolinal Yoruba "palaces" they look like crap. Benin had an advanced architecture, the palace of the Oba was large, beautiful and an architectural profile. The doors even had locks.

My people can't be compared to yours, we had an advanced civilisation while your ancestors were nothing but savages or slaves or citizens of Oyo, dahomey, slaves in Brazil, slaves in fulani settlement ...

Also I am done. I have got work to do and also wasting my time on nairaland, I have done too much of that and can not reasonably afford too much of these or I might end up losing my job or my girlfriends.

Sayonara. Tao, you are one dumb person.

Suzanne P. Blier is one of the leading (if not the leading) Professor of the History of African Art and Architecture in the world today.

Moreover, her works encompass both the History of Yoruba Art, as well as the History of Benin Art, among other notable African Arts.

And interestingly, the issue in relation to which I have cited her work here was the dating of an Ife Art --- an issue which even your poor sorry self admitted that she is an expert at.

Furthermore, you may also find attached the eminent fourteen-page CV of this Havard Professor of the History of African Art and Architecture for your sweet perusal https://haa.fas.harvard.edu/files/history-artsarchitecture/files/cv-lg._2018a.pdf


Moreover, her biography found at https://scholar.harvard.edu/blier/biocv states very clearly that she is:

"Suzanne Preston Blier (Ph.D. 1981 Columbia, Allen Whitehill Clowes Professor of Fine Arts and of African and African American Studies, Harvard University) is an HISTORIAN OF AFRICAN ART and architecture in both the History of Art and Architecture and African and African American Studies Departments."


It becomes clear therefore that my "endless mention of her name" when necessary is simply due to the fact that the issue under discussion is about the History of African Arts and she is one of the leading scholars and academics in the world in the field of the History of African Arts.


Like I had mentioned earlier, the burden still lies with you to explain why you strongly believe that a Havard Professor of the History of African Art should never be cited when discussing the History of African Arts.

Also, you should be willing, after proving the foregoing, to recommend who should be cited (instead of experts) when discussing the History of African Arts.



Regarding architecture:

Although you provided no evidence (other than your filthy word-of-mouth) for your brainless wishful claim that Benin palace architecture was more advanced than the Yorubas'.

The attached is a photograph sneak-peek of what a Yoruba palace architecture looks like even in 1948.

I challenge you to provide me with any photograph, not an imaginative drawing of what the Benin palace architecture looks somewhat like around the same time. I bet you, it can never take a stand beside the Yoruba's.


No, it is my people who can not be compared to yours because we conquered, rescued and civilized Igodomigodo people who were on the brink of extermination and extinction.

Finally, I am glad that, as always, I again frustrated your attempt to distort history thereby causing you to run away in tears.


In summary:

I have shown conclusively with relevant evidence that obalufon was right in his assertion that "beads dressing and wrapper tying" was an ancient Ife dressing. We see a hard evidence of this in an archaeological find which has been shown with scholarly attestation to have been dated to the early 14th century (i.e. early 1300s).

And as has been shown from scholarly evidence, the Binis at that time had not yet made use of beads, because their own traditions state, from the academic reference already cited, that the use of beads wasn't introduced until during the reign of Oba Ewuare1 (i.e. 1440 to 1473).

A little bit of advise: stop over hyping the people whom you quote. You sound like a broken uneducated record. Whomever you quote is the "best and most cmpetent human being on earth...". Justvrember you are nit selling a product. The work of the person you are quoting should speak for itself. It shouldn't need you as a spokesperson.

The dating of your Yoruba item is inexistant or without actual scientific backing.

And I am not a magician, I do not have Benin artwork in my possession. I can not provide what you ask for unless I do more digging up on the matter or visit a western museum. I live in France, so I can do both.

Don't you find it weird that The Edo art was actual fourniture in the Oba's palace while yours was dug up from the ground ?

You will receive no further attention from me.

To inform you on what you did not know about a scholar, or to present the scholar's eminent credentials (especially when you've been caught trying to distort facts and discredit them unduly) is very very appropriate.

I am shocked that you're mad at me for presenting the credibility of Suzanne P. Blier as found on her own University's webpage (i.e. Havard University). Should you really be mad because of this??

The sources I have cited so far are respected academic and scholarly sources namely: The University of Iowa, Harvard University (Suzanne P. Blier), the eminent historian and archaeologist Frank Willett of the University of Glasgow, among others.

Again, why are you mad that I cited the scholars, and I presented their biography when you tried to distort and discredited them?

You don't like to be exposed I guess.

The dating of the Ife sculpture excavated from Ita Yemoo has already been shown in the work of Suzanne P. Blier who is a leading Professor of the History of African Art and Architecture to be dated to the early 14th century (i.e. the early 1300s)

And I am 1000% sure that Havard University (including any of its faculty members e.g. Suzanne P. Blier) do not conduct supernatural, spiritual, or metaphysical dating of archaeological artefacts. Rather, the technique is scientific.

My question remains why do you insist that experts on the History of African Arts should never be cited when discussing the History of African Arts?

Who then should be cited?

Lol!

Cc: Prolog3111

An other boring and way too long write up with no substance and no logics.
My comment which you are quoting already contains a proof the word Oba belongs to the Edo. It is the title of the Edo king. I can't elaborate any simpler or further than what is already contained in the comment which you are quoting. So let me serve it to you again.

I notice you have huge comprehension problems.

Logics and semantics:

1) British word for king: king
British title for king: king
2) Russian word for king: tsar
Russian title for king: tsar
3) French word for king: roi
French title for king: roi
4) Benin kingdom word for king: Oba
Benin title for king: Oba
5) German word for king: keizer
German title for king: keizer
6)Oyo word for king: alafin
Oyo title for king: alafin
7) ife word for king: ooni
Ife title for king: ooni

This destroys your argument once again. Indeed the human species has a habit of having the title of king and the word for king to be the very same word:

Word for king = title for king !!!!!

It is amazing that you don't realize how dumb you are.

I also noticed you trying to put words in my mouth just like you try to put claims in my "tradition" and make pretend claims of my people. You know you have no argument when you resort to telling your interlocutor what he thinks or putting words into his mouth.

I just saw your claim about Egypt. To make such a claim, you need to back it up with actual documents, provide links research works.

I will also have you reminded that there are two zones in Egypt which were functioning independently as two different countries with two different kings until they were unified. That makes at least two titles for king only one being used ( but for the fact that Egypt has very old records dating back thousands of years, the other words wouldn't even be known) Egypt was also invaded and subjected by at least one of its neighbours, that might have made way for yet an other title. Anyways, Egypt has records way too old to be put at the same level as any other people on earth. Therefore the use of Egypt as an example is fraudulent. The oldest records of our region are less than 700 years old.

Also languages evolve over time. Ask youself what the english language would look like in 3000 years or what it looked like 3000 years ago. That is the absurdity of Egypt having incredibly old records.

Also, as languages evolve, words change : e.g the english word for "friend" was something else, util the vikings started invading them and the word became the viking word " friend".

In the case of the Yoruba, my comment which you quoted has proven it all. The word Oba was borrowed from the Edo. Stop beating around the bush and accept reality with a pinch of salt. When proof is given, the debate is ended, no sentence can be proven and disproven (logics).
End of story.

Regardless of how many languages you make reference to (and assuming you're correct on all of them), your whole analysis breaks down if there is just one exception to what you're pushing for. And in this case (as I have shown and will show again) there are already two exceptions yet, namely ancient Egyptian language and Yoruba language.


Again, in the Yoruba language, the word "Eleko" does NOT mean "King" even though the word "Eleko" is reserved exclusively for any king that would rule Eko. --- It simply means "the sovereign of Eko"

Also, the word "Olubadan" does NOT mean "King" even though the word "Olubadan" is reserved exclusively for any king that would rule Ibadan. --- It simply means "the sovereign of Ibadan"

Similarly, the word "Alaafin" does NOT mean "King" even though the word "Alaafin" is reserved exclusively for any king that would rule Oyo. --- It simply means "the sovereign of the palace"

And finally, the word "Ooni" does NOT mean "King" even though the word "Ooni" is reserved exclusively for any king that would rule Ife. --- It simply means "the one who owns"



Regarding, the ancient Egyptian word "Pharaoh", this word was obviously reserved exclusively for the kings of ancient Egypt. But the point I was making is simply that this word itself does not mean "King", rather it means, "The great house".

My point obviously eluded you.

And regarding your request for evidence that the word "Pharaoh" actually means "The great house" instead of "King"; I already provided you with the appropriate reference to the entry "Pharaoh" in I. Shaw & P. Nicholson, "British Museum Dictionary Of Ancient Egypt", 1995, British Museum Press: London, p. 222.

I am not obliged to do more than that. I guess what you wanted me to do is that I should not simply provide you with the reference, but I should also check it up for you. ... Really!?

But since you've asked to be spoon-fed, I choose to oblige to your request on this occasion. See link to I. Shaw & P. Nicholson, "British Museum Dictionary Of Ancient Egypt" below, and scroll down to the entry "Pharaoh":

https://archive.org/stream/TheBritishMuseumDictionaryOfAncientEgyptBySamy/The+British+Museum+Dictionary+of+Ancient+Egypt+By+Samy_djvu.txt


It has been demonstrated thus that the ancient Egyptian word "per-aa" (or "pharaoh" in the Anglicized form) itself does not mean "King" (but rather means "The great house" ) even though the word "per-aa" or "pharaoh" was reserved exclusively for any king that would rule ancient Egypt.


This example is sufficient enough to demolish your numerous listing of languages such as British, Russian, French, and German languages and so forth.

In other words, it is a cultural and linguistic reality that certain words which are reserved exclusively for the king may not even itself mean "King".

Your long listing of languages doesn't help you, neither does your YouTube videos on language evolution have any helpful relevance for you.


However, it would be absurd to reason and conclude that because of this, then the ancient Egyptians did not have any word in their lexicon which simply means "King".

Yes, every language and culture that has ever had kings and queens obviously have a word meaning "King" in their lexicon, be it ancient Egyptian culture/language or Yoruba culture/language.




Having demonstrated that the presence, in Yoruba lexicon, of words such as "Ooni", "Eleko", "Olubadan", "Alaafin", etc. (none of which even means "King" in the first place), does not rule out the presence of another word which simply means "king"; I turn now to the word "Oba" itself:


Your claim which you couldn't substantiate with evidence is to the effect that the word "Oba" (for "King" ) belongs originally to the Edo lexicon, and that it came into the Yoruba lexicon from Edo as what is known as a "loanword".

This claim is false and the reverse is actually true as I will demonstrate in due course.


**If the word "Oba" (for "King" ) truly belongs originally to a particular language, then the etymological derivation of the word "Oba" must not only come from that language, but must also mean "King" (and not something else) even at the root level in that language.

However, it will be seen shortly that this foregoing truth-conditional proposition is not in harmony with the Edo language at all, but instead gels perfectly with the Yoruba language; thus showing that the present usage of the word "Oba" (for "King" ) in Edo language is a "loanword" from the Yoruba language.


In Edo language, an original Edo word exists which is also spelt exactly the same way as the word "Oba" (for "King" ). This word has been the source of conflation for many, but an etymological analysis of this word shows it to be a clearly distinct and entirely different word (which is even toned differently) from the word "Oba" (for "King" ). The similarity of these two words begins and ends in their spelling.

This different word is also written as "Oba", and it comes from the Edo root-word, "BA".

This Edo root word "BA" clearly, simply, and unambiguously means "BRIGHTEN" or "SHINE".

The derived form "OBA" from this root "BA" therefore becomes: "That which BRIGHTENS" or "That which SHINES"

This is in no way equivalent (or even synonymous) to the English word "KING" by any stretch of the imagination.

Thus demonstrating from an etymological analysis that the word "Oba" (for "King" ) does not belong originally to the Edo lexicon, as its etymology is not found there.


What about in the Yoruba language?

In the Yoruba language, the word "Oba" (for "King" ) comes from the Yoruba root-word "BA".

This Yoruba root-word "BA" clearly, simply, and unambiguously means "RULE". An example is seen in the Yoruba phrase: "Oba BA lori ohun gbogbo".


The derived form "OBA" from this root "BA" therefore becomes: "One who RULES".

This is precisely, exactly, and unmistakably the equivalence of the English word "King".

The etymology of the word "Oba" (for "king" ) is therefore found in the Yoruba language but not in the Edo language.

This proves again that the word "Oba" (for "king" ) is originally Yoruba and only present in the Edo language today as a "loanword".


One may then ask, what then is the original Edo word which means "King" since "Oba" (for "King" ) has been clearly demonstrated to be originally alien to the Edo lexicon:

The answer to this is short and simple. An original word exists in Edo lexicon which simply and unambiguously means "King".

This original extant Edo word for "King" is "OGIE".

Confirm this from any of your Benin elders and if they would not feel inferior to the Yorubas, they would definitely confirm this word to you as meaning "KING".

Cc: Prolog3111

TAO11:


Hi geosegun and Olu317:

I feel deeply humbled and pleased by your generous descriptions of my ordinary self. The words are so kind and generous that I feel undeserving of them. Thank you very much.

Regarding gender: It's only courteous and respectful that individuals be addressed only how they've made it quite clear that they want to be addressed (regardless of how "intimidating" or "weak" their words come across as) unless they confirm otherwise on an individual/personal basis.

I personally feel that other people's gender identity should be the least of our problems (if at all it should be part of our problems). We have more urgent, important, pressing, and interesting issues and problems to discuss or solve, I believe.


On "collaboration": Although it is not entirely clear to me what this is to be about; I like to, first of all, acknowledge that your burning and deep passions for anything Yorùbá is not unnoticeable. I really commend you guys for that.

However, I regret to say that I have other views on "collaboration" in this area. I personally do not think that non-scholars/non-academics of Yoruba like us (at least like me) are well placed or equipped to undertake a serious independent investigation of newer areas of Yoruba history.

The idea of not being a scholar or academic of Yoruba is, to me, mutually exclusive to the idea of undertaking a serious investigation.

I feel very strongly that if they're not scholars and academics, then their so-called investigations can not be taken seriously (especially in academia); and if it was a serious investigation, then it was never undertaken by rookies, mere enthusiasts or non-scholars/non-academics.

Some individuals with the appropriate scholarly and academic competence (who have been through the relevant formal training and experience) are best reserved, for such serious work.

Moreover, I believe that a quite thorough investigation of the history of the Yorubas (which looks more closely into the sources, the evidence, and the contemporary or prevailing scholarly consensus) have recently been published in the works of S. Adebanji Akintoye's A History of The Yoruba People, Amalion Publishing, 2010.


Lastly, I took up reading Yoruba history and commentary on Nairaland only as a pastime. I do this just to ease off the stress from my other packed and tough engagements in my own area of research/interest. This especially may not allow me the time for other thorough, serious, and novel research into new areas of Yoruba history even if I have the scholarly competence which I believe others (and not me) do have. We should task the experts on new areas of investigation.

This is my humble submission on "collaboration".

Cheers!

Wow! This is quite elaborate as the information indeed has given me a lee way to understanding your love for Yoruba history and culture. God bless you Ma'am.

As regard, ‘collaboration' , you surmised your view for being actively involved in this Culture section to what you do and term,‘ pasttime' ,which many people do but not I,because my purpose is to be taken seriously as a scholar on this discipline. With due respect, do I repeat that you and others with meaningful contribution on nairaland Culture's Section have been awesome. Bless you all


With much respect to scholars who have contributed to the history of Yoruba history from all angle, irrespective of their certification. However, there are area with flaws which Yoruba historians , ethnographers, etc haven't rectified, which scholars have to look into. In which is the someone as I, and others use scholarly angle to contribute our own quota. Mind you, historians are limited and restricted to certain level of information based on narrative they have access to from the local or indigenes

Ilorin as a case study,showed Yorubas founded this city but its a cosmopolitan city. God forbid, but Imagine if Yorubas, were wiped out of that city when Afonja died or killed, who do think would have reconstructed the histroy of the city to suit themselves? The new group of course, which affirm to a Yoruba proverb,which says, ‘ ẹ́ní mọ́ ìtán lo nì'lẹ́ (One with seemingly vast knowledge of a location is the owner of the land). Invariably, a suppressed version on such land or history is null and void,if it is based solely on historical angle. As far as I am concern, Ethnography (anthropology), hieroglyphic, ideogram, Archeology, Linguistics etc need be used to verify claims by Historians because being a scholar is beyond what a lot people assume through African perspective because it is about having a universal knowledge, in which one become a master in such specific area of interest. To further butress my point on a scholar, as follows:

i. A student; one who studies at school or college.

ii. A specialist in a particular branch of knowledge.

iii. A learned person; a bookman.

iv. People who educate themselves for their whole life.

Having posits the meaning through English Dictionary proofs that you and others with fantastic information are scholars and capable if you desire to complement yourself with additional paper,in other to write journal on this area of choice . Although, you may refuse to decide not to further yourself on this area of Yoruba culture based on self conviction. However, you can always remain a ‘Maven', to many of us.


Lastly, teaching people what I know is the reason I submit to it humbly when one of us made projection on collaboration. Plainly, Quran is written in a Semite language and Yoruba do study it as reading . Thus, the over 4000 years symbol (writing) of the classical Levant, can be read if caucasians can educate themselves in it . Why not us the Yorubas doing same? At least, it helps expands one's understanding of tje worldview from another angle.


Stay bless,
Cheers

gregyboy:


I keep telling you stop posting craps from the internent that lacks proper research and archeological data .....
Lol....ooh now its a benin website not eghrevbas account again i shoukd believe ...so now you choose to post an edo website not eghrevbas works again pathetic ....spit*

And again you have made me go over board to bring valid data from archeological findings just again eweka reigned from about the 13century when beads were said to have originated in benin according to archeological findings no account ever mentioned him introducing beads but he wore beads and all other edo regalia

This findings on the date were gotten from the muesum i will advice you to stop the big grammer and research before you write....

According to account the benin empire still older than the so called oyo empire if it existed

You're obviously dumber than your kinsman whom I just finished flogging.

You've submitted loads of red herring, straw man and outright irrelevant craps.

Nowhere did I tell you to trust Egharvba ONLY. Moreover, the Bini revisionists did not shy away from every single submission of the renowned Bini historian Egharevba.

The only fact of which there is evidence remains that Benin traditions claim that Ewuare1 introduced coral beads' use (i.e. Ivie and Ekan ) to Benin in the 15th century, --- many centuries after Ife had already mastered the art of beads.

Find an academic reference to this Benin tradition below:

https://africa.uima.uiowa.edu/topic-essays/show/4?start=1


Every other thing you wrote is without evidence.

What I expected is evidence which shows clearly that the use beads in Benin kingdom dates to before Ewuare1.

What you have provided instead is a Wikipedia post which says that metal casting was practiced in Benin since as early as the 13th century.

How is this supposed to be evidence for the use of beads in Benin before Ewuare1??


Furthermore, the following comment goes out to your brother Prolog3111 who mentioned somewhere that while the Binis use "cylindrical" shaped beads the Ifes use ONLY "spherical" shaped ones and never "cylindrical" shaped ones.

If your brother really knows even the most basic of solid Euclidean geometry, then he should have known that the beads enclosed in between the two "line" highlights in the attachment below are not "spherical" but "cylindrical".

I guess he (Prolog3111) is even a rookie in his self-acclaimed field of Mathematics. Come and learn some Maths boy, okay?

The attached evidence (including the highlight) shows clearly that the Ifes used both tubular shaped beads (or "cylindrical" shaped beads as he may prefer to call it ) as well as spherical shaped ones.

Cheers!

TAO11:


You're obviously dumber than your kinsman whom I just finished flogging.

You've submitted loads of red herring, straw man and outright irrelevant craps.

Nowhere did I tell you to trust Egharvba ONLY. Moreover, the Bini revisionists did not shy away from every single submission of the renowned Bini historian Egharevba.

The only fact remains of which there is any evidence remain that Benin traditions claim that Ewuare1 introduced coral beads' use (i.e. Ivie and Ekan ) to Benin in the 15th century, many centuries after Ife had already mastered the art of beads.

Find an academic reference to this Benin tradition below:

https://africa.uima.uiowa.edu/topic-essays/show/4?start=1


Every other thing you wrote is without evidence. What I expected is evidence which shows clearly that the use beads in Benin kingdom dates to before Ewuare1. What you have provided instead is a Wikipedia post which says that metal casting was practiced in Benin since as early as the 13th century.

How is this supposed to be evidence for the use of beads in Benin before Ewuare1??


Furthermore, the following comment goes out to your brother Prolog3111 who mentioned somewhere that while the Binis use "cylindrical" shaped beads the Ifes use ONLY "spherical" shaped ones and never "cylindrical" shaped ones.

If your brother really knows even the most basic of solid Euclidean geometry, then he should have known that the beads enclosed in between the two "line" highlights in the attachment below are not "spherical" but "cylindrical".

I guess he (Prolog3111) is even a rookie in his self-acclaimed field of Mathematics. Come and learn some Maths boy, okay?

The attached evidence (including the highlight) shows clearly that the Ifes used both tubular shaped beads (or "cylindrical" shaped beads as he may prefer to call it ) as well as spherical shaped ones.

Cheers!

You really dump and fool of crap because the acedemic reference stated l"engend say's " the beginning of topic

I have checked the oldest picture of yoruba monarchs on net and i found that this yoruba kings seem not to have worn hand bead unlike the sculpture of oduduwa ....not even round beeds too until recently
This are foreign custom to the yorubas ....

Your onni of today is seen fluenting coral beads and even hand beeds the beeds we all knows came from the Portuguese i dont see why the ooni is wearing a coral beads when its not original to them the only yorubas allowed to wear such beeds are the ekitis and ondo which were once under the benin vassal state....back to discussion to all this proves and the benin claim to oduduwa dont you think it maybe correct.....

Here are pics of the ekan beeds and even benin hand and round beed

gregyboy:



[s]You really dump and fool of crap because the acedemic reference stated l"engend say's " the beginning of topic[/s]

I have checked the oldest picture of yoruba monarchs on net and i found that this yoruba kings seem not to have worn hand bead unlike the sculpture of oduduwa ....not even round beeds too until recently

This are foreign custom to the yorubas ....

Your onni of today is seen fluenting coral beads and even hand beeds the beeds we all knows came from the Portuguese i dont see why the ooni is wearing a coral beads when its not original to them the only yorubas allowed to wear such beeds are the ekitis and ondo which were once under the benin vassal state....back to discussion to all this proves and the benin claim to oduduwa dont you think it maybe correct.....

Here are pics of the ekan beeds and even benin hand and round beed

Legend says! Which legend? Yoruba legend? No, Benin legend. If you don't trust your own tradition, then provide the alternative which would help your case, but with evidence.

(1) I have shown you evidence of beads production in Ife dating to as early as the 12th century (i.e. the 1100s --- many centuries before European contact) but you've suddenly had a short memory.

For evidence, refer one more time to the academic paper at the following link:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281149310_Glass_Beads_from_Igbo-Olokun_Ile-Ife_Chemical_Composition_Production_and_Regional_Interaction

This link contains the scholarly academic paper entitled:  "Glass Beads from Igbo-Olokun, Ile-Ife: Chemical Composition, Production, and Regional Interaction"

This paper was presented at an annual conference of the "Society for American Archaeology."

And it states clearly in the Abstract, and I quote here:

"The site of Igbo Olokun in the city of Ife, in southwestern Nigeria has been identified as a primary glass and glass beads production center dating to the “Classic” period (12th-15th c.)"


(2) I have shown you an early 14th-century (i.e. early 1300s) bronze casting of an Ife king (with his Ife facial scarification which you admitted was an Ife thing and never a Benin thing) with rounded beaded regalia. Yet you're now pretending to have lost your memory.

This foregoing two points alone already destroys everything you've made up above concerning beads among the Yorubas.


Furthermore, the photograph you've attached is of Oba Ovoranmwen Nogbaisi of Benin kingdom who ruled from 1888-1897.

How is this photograph of a man in the 19th/20th century supposed to be an evidence that beads were used before Ewuare1 who had reigned in the 15th century (i.e. 1400s)??

Are you sure you're not retarded??




Someday you would eventually stop lying hopefully, and you would share the testimony, of how I helped, with your kids.

TAO11 Weldon ma. You are really a well patriotic Yoruba woman at heart. If this people were really still looking for their lost Izoduwa or becouse their lie lie oracle told them is our own Oduduwa pls ma just ignore all their crap they are not ready and willing to learn or carried along with this modern age research technics. They were just a bunch of confused people. But our own Oranmiyan (Ogboota ode) had really installed their own blood oba for them let them go and wine and dine with him don't kill their brain with research work thank you.

TAO11:


Legend says! Which legend? Yoruba legend? No, Benin legend. If you don't trust your own tradition, then provide the alternative which would help your case, but with evidence.

(1) I have shown you evidence of beads production in Ife dating to as early as the 12th century (i.e. the 1100s --- many centuries before European contact) but you've suddenly had a short memory.

For evidence, refer one more time to the academic paper at the following link:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281149310_Glass_Beads_from_Igbo-Olokun_Ile-Ife_Chemical_Composition_Production_and_Regional_Interaction

This link contains the scholarly academic paper entitled:  "Glass Beads from Igbo-Olokun, Ile-Ife: Chemical Composition, Production, and Regional Interaction"

This paper was presented at an annual conference of the "Society for American Archaeology."

And it states clearly in the Abstract, and I quote here:

"The site of Igbo Olokun in the city of Ife, in southwestern Nigeria has been identified as a primary glass and glass beads production center dating to the “Classic” period (12th-15th c.)"


(2) I have shown you an early 14th-century (i.e. early 1300s) bronze casting of an Ife king (with his Ife facial scarification which you admitted was an Ife thing and never a Benin thing) with rounded beaded regalia. Yet you're now pretending to have lost your memory.

This foregoing two points alone already destroys everything you've made up above concerning beads among the Yorubas.


Furthermore, the photograph you've attached is of Oba Ovoranmwen Nogbaisi of Benin kingdom who ruled from 1888-1897.

How is this photograph of a man in the 19th/20th century supposed to be an evidence that beads were used before Ewuare1 who had reigned in the 15th century (i.e. 1400s)??

Are you sure you're not retarded??

...lol i have no time for this



Someday you would eventually stop lying hopefully, and you would share the testimony of how I helped with your kids.

A picture showing 14c palace and the guards with full regalia i hope this counter your claims

I will revist this your comment one after the other but not today stay on

gregyboy:


A picture showing 14c palace and the guards with full regalia i hope this counter your claims

I will revist this your comment one after the other but not today stay on

Lwkmd!

Just to tell you what you already knew:

The so-called Judy Evans is another random unknown layperson like your poor sorry self commenting on an everyday blog-like post like Nairaland.

I like the fact that I have kept you busy though. You seem to be a good boy!

However, I'm still waiting on you to provide expert scholarly academic evidence showing the use of beads in Benin prior to Ewuare1 (i.e. prior to the 1400s).

It is only if you are able to do the foregoing that we can then discard the Benin tradition (which attributes the first use of beads in Benin to Ewuare1) as nonsensical.

TAO11:


Lwkmd!

Just to tell you what you already knew:

The so-called Judy Evans is another random unknown layperson like your poor sorry self commenting on an everyday blog-like post like Nairaland.

I like the fact that I have kept you busy, good boy!

However, I'm still waiting on you to provide expert scholarly academic evidence showing the use of beads in Benin prior to Ewuare1 (i.e. prior to the 1400s).

It is only if you are able to do the foregoing that we can then discard the Benin tradition (which attributes beads' use in Benin to Ewuare1) as nonsensical.

Eware reigned at the 15c then i showed you an artefact of full military men on beaded wears of 14c you still asking prove God ....am done
This is the issue with transgendered

gregyboy:


Eware reigned at the 15c then i showed you an artefact of full military men on beaded wears of 14c you still asking prove God ....am done
This is the issue with transgendered

Yes, Ewuare1 reigned in the 15th century (i.e. 1400s).

Yes, you attached a picture of certain men depicted by a "Benin sculpture".

But No, you did not adduce any expert, scholarly, or academic source to show when the casting dates to.

You may cry me a river baby!

All I know is that you will never again lie and go scot-free, while I'm still on Nairaland.

Mhen the obsession with Benin people is real

TAO11:


Yes, Ewuare1 reigned in the 15th century (i.e. 1400s).

Yes, you attached a picture of certain men depicted by a "Benin sculpture".

But No, you did not adduce any expert, scholarly, or academic source to show when the casting dates to.

You may cry me a river baby!

All I know is that you will never again lie and go scot-free, while I'm still on Nairaland.

Ooh i see ...lol..that bronze art is been sold in hundreds of euro and do you think they would in the date for such a thing... Remember it is renowed foreign site for selling pictures and sculpture....
Hmm...even if you disagree my friend am ok i have schooled you on this

gregyboy:



Ooh i see ...lol..that bronze art is been sold in hundreds of euro and do you think they would in the date for such a thing... Remember it is renowed foreign site for selling pictures and sculpture....
Hmm...even if you disagree my friend am ok i have schooled you on this

Again, your willful ignorance is very thick.

Like I have schooled you earlier, the so-called Judy Evans is another random unknown layperson like your poor sorry self commenting on an everyday public online platform.

Stop being inferior to a layperson like your poor sorry self. Whatever the so-called Judy Evans wrote in her comment on the public online platform (including the supposed date and price of the "Benin artefacts" ) is only her wishful statement and thus unauthoritative.


Instead, you're expected to adduce an expert scholarly academic reference which dates the use of beads in Benin kingdom to the pre-Ewuare1 era --- in other words, to the 1300s or earlier, since Ewuare reigned in the 1400s.

It is only if you are able to do the foregoing that we can then discard the Benin tradition (which attributes the introduction of beads' use in Benin culture to Ewuare1) as nonsensical.

For the dating of the Oba of Benin's uniform, it is just pure facts and logics. That uniform was seized by the British military from Oba Ovonramwen when Benin lost the war against britain, it was later returned to Oba Eweka, the first son of Oba Ovonramwen. Some other uniforms of the Oba of Benin were not returned and some are still in the British museum.

Your ooni can testify, go to date 2:17 of the following video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxZAXb0XVwI

Hahaha! Did you really turn yourself into a "Nobody" after being beaten black and blue?? Wonderful!!


Anyways, I'm patiently waiting for you to provide the manufacture date attributed to the so-called uniform of the Oba of Benin by scholars, experts, or academics who have scientifically dated it.

And nowhere in the video you attached did the Ooni confirm that the so-called uniform of the Oba of Benin dates to the pre-Ewuare1 era, neither did he make any "confirmation" whatsoever.

Stop lying in the hope of deceiving your fellow gull!ble Binis.

Prolog3111

TAO11:


Hahaha! Did you really turn yourself into a "Nobody" after being beaten black and blue?? Wonderful!!


Anyways, I'm patiently waiting for you to provide the manufacture date attributed to the so-called uniform of the Oba of Benin by scholars, experts, or academics who have scientifically dated it.

And nowhere in the video you attached did the Ooni confirm that the so-called uniform of the Oba of Benin dates to the pre-Ewuare1 era, neither did he make any "confirmation" whatsoever.

Stop lying in the hope of deceiving your fellow gull!ble Binis.

Prolog3111

Ewuare never rained in 15 centuries but 13 to 14th century get your fact right.

And also Benin bronze beads was known from 14th century while Yoruba bronze beads was known from ending of 18th to 19th century.

Now tell me which is the oldest unless you can prove to me that Yoruba was known before 18th century I will never take you seriously

I see many Yorubas here lying since with no fact let me remind you this.

Oyo, Yoruba, Yoruba bronze, Yoruba beads Yoruba territory, Yoruba map, land was known in the worlds from 18th century before 18th century there was noting like Yoruba in world map or anything related to Yoruba, people that was in west Africa guinea was known as Benin Ghana dahomey Cameroon or biafra.

Accept if you can prove me wrong with a fact not from Yoruba site or person or people born after 18th century

and also people that was taken from Yoruba as slaves was taken from bight of Benin, Benin empire not Yoruba there was no name as Yoruba or Oyo in the world until 18th century.

Below is a legit map and they are hundreds of them drawn by different people before 19th century and it pictured out same kingdoms here please don't bring fake map the one draw by Yoruba or people after 18th century.

goalernestman:


Ewuare never rained in 15 centuries but 13 to 14th century get your fact right.

And also Benin bronze beads was known from 14th century while Yoruba bronze beads was known from ending of 18th to 19th century.

Now tell me which is the oldest unless you can prove to me that Yoruba was known before 18th century I will never take you seriously

Who sent you here so that I may roast you? Such person is your enemy, run away from them.

Anyways, I won't roast you.

I will only crucify you on your first claim, after which I will simply ask you to provide the evidence for your second and third claims thereby giving you the opportunity to realize by your own self that the statements are FALSE.

Here we go:

(1) Ewuare1 rained reigned in the 15th century from the year 1440 to the year 1473.

Don't take my word for it, take the words of your own Bini website https://www.edoworld.net/Obas.html which contains a listing of the kings of Benin kingdom from the first to the present.

See the first attached screenshot in case you're too busy to click the link.

Having now been exposed as a liar, and having endowed you with some proper education, note that it would be hard before anyone would take you seriously no more.

Always get your emotions right!


(2) Your second claim says that certain Benin bronze heads date to the 14th century, and that Yoruba bronze heads date to the 18th and 19th century.

You're not the first Bini on Nairaland to make this false statement. Two of your brothers namely Prolog3111 and gregyboy have made this claim before you.

But guess what, they are still searching for the evidence to substantiate this false claim since over two weeks ago when I sent them on the errand to substantiate their own claim.

Now join them on this errand, may be you would be the game changer.

But in case you become wiser than them during your search, and become repentant, and come to retract this false statement; then I will demonstrate to you that, in fact, the most extant Ife bronze sculptures have been dated by experts to the earliest of the 12th century (i.e. the 1100s) while the most extant indigenous Benin bronze sculptures (depicting use of beads) have been dated by experts to the earliest of the 15th century (i.e. the 1400s).


(3) Regarding your third remark, although you did not make your position clear as to whether or not you yourself believe that Yorubas were unknown prior to the 18th century --- that is, unknown in the 1600s or earlier.

Nevertheless, I would provide you with a piece of factual historical information. Please refer to the second attachment!

goalernestman:
I see many Yorubas here lying since with no fact let me remind you this.

Oyo, Yoruba, Yoruba bronze, Yoruba beads Yoruba territory, Yoruba map, land was known in the worlds from 18th century before 18th century there was noting like Yoruba in world map or anything related to Yoruba, people that was in west Africa guinea was known as Benin Ghana dahomey Cameroon or biafra.

Accept if you can prove me wrong with a fact not from Yoruba site or person or people born after 18th century

It's funny that on seeing my comment you immediately fled from your moniker to "guest". Wonderful!!

Anyways, you just joined the ranks of Bini liars whom I have rubbished as per the claims of artefact.

So, instead of merely claiming that Yorubas on Nairaland were lying, you could have simply demonstrated with evidence that they lied. Nay, you "dashed" a golden opportunity. Lol!


And lastly, since you requested to be proven wrong, please note that you've just been proven wrong (in my 2nd attachment above) on your claim that Yorubas were not on record prior to the 18th century.