Homosexuality and lesbianism have been dubbed 'alternative life-styles', 'personal preference', 'natural variation', etc. In the West today, where homosexuality was once considered an illness by the Association of Psychiatrists, it has now been removed from the list and replaced by homophobia (the dislike of homosexuals and homosexuality). Consequently, Islam and Muslims are considered intolerant and biased due to their continued opposition. Arguments in favour of tolerance towards homosexuals are based on the assumption that homosexual behaviour is biologically based and not merely learned from society.

1.Early opposition to homosexuality was based on the argument that such behaviour was unnatural. Sodomy cannot produce children, which is one of the main natural consequences of sexual relations. 'Mother Nature' did not make us that way, it was argued. To counter such arguments, homosexual researchers scoured the earth until they found supposed homosexual behaviour among the animal kingdom. They found that the males of some species of exotic fishes off the coast of Japan imitated the behaviour of females of the species in order to prevent other males from impregnating their mates, and some rare butterflies from islands off the coast of Africa also had males exhibiting female behaviour during mating season, etc. However, if the animal kingdom is to be used to justify human behaviour, there also exists a spider in South America whose female is much larger than the male. When mating is complete, the female eats her mate.

2.During the 1980’s it was claimed that a gland in the base of the brain which is small in women and large in men was found to be small among homosexuals. However, this evidence, while seeming incontrovertible to the layman, was immediately refuted by scientists. The data was taken from cross-sections of the brains of dead adult humans whose sexual preference was identified prior to death. Consequently, the reduced size of that gland among homosexuals could have been a result of the practice and not its cause. That is, they could have been born with normal-sized glands which then became small due to their deviant lifestyle.

3.Recently, genetics has become the most commonly used foundation for the pro-gay argument. In 1993 Dr. Dean Hamer, a researcher at the National Cancer Institute, claimed to have discovered 'the first concrete evidence that ‘gay genes’ really do exist.' Homosexual orientation was supposedly transmitted to males on the X chromosome from the mother. Hamer’s findings, published in the prestigious journal 'Science', transformed his colourless career as a government scientist into a dynamic media personality and he penned his memoirs. He gave expert testimony to the Colorado Supreme Court that formed the basis of the victorious decision striking down anti-gay propositions. However, a replication of his study at the University of Western Ontario failed to find any linkage whatsoever between the X chromosome and sexual orientation. It was also found that Hamer’s study lacked a control group; a fundamental principle of scientific research.
Furthermore, in June 1994, the Chicago Tribune reported that a junior researcher in Hamer’s laboratory who assisted in the gene mapping in the homosexuality study, alleged that he selectively reported his data. She was then summarily dismissed from her post-doctoral fellowship in Hamer’s lab. But a National Institute of Health investigation substantiated her claims and gave her another position in a different lab. Though Dr. Hamer was coy about his own sexuality in his memoirs, he later admitted in his lectures that he was gay.

4.It should be noted that Islam, in its final form, did not introduce anti-gay legislature to the world. The texts of the Torah are replete with clear condemnations of such practices.

5.The consequence of AIDS is enough to prove that homosexuality is evil and dangerous to society. The early spread of AIDS was concentrated among the homosexual community. It later spread to the heterosexual and the so-called bisexual community through blood transfusions and intravenous drug usage. Its spread continues on a rampage among promiscuous heterosexuals.

6.Islam considers homosexuality to be the result of a choice. It is inconceivable that God made people homosexuals then declared it a crime and prescribed punishments for it in both this life and the next. To accept such a proposition is to accept that God is unjust. Inclinations can exist within humans for a variety of natural and unnatural acts, from fornication to rape and from necrophilia to bestiality. These inclinations may come from jinn-suggestions, media influence, or even from human whisperings or direct contact. Sodomy was common among the people of Prophet Loot (Lot), may Allah exalt his mention, who lived in Sodom, Palestine; after they had rejected his advice to give up this evil practice, Allah Almighty crushed and then annihilated their city. The Quran describes that punishment in the verse which means: "So when Our commandment came, We made the highest part [of the city] its lowest and rained upon them stones of hard clay in succession." [Quran: 11:82]
Human beings are not like robots who only do what they are programmed to. Humans choose and God holds them responsible for their choices. Were homosexuality a product of genetic destiny, it would be unfair for God to criminalise it and punish those who practice it. Currently, some scientists are even claiming that murder is of genetic origin. To accept that would mean to excuse murderers and tolerate murder.

7.Islam instructs parents to separate their children in their beds by the age of ten in order to avoid sexual experiences which may result from childhood experimentation. Such experiences may be reinforced by contacts in schools and through abuse from adults. Also, the distinctions between male and female are strongly made in Islamic teachings.

Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) (may Allah exalt his mention) cursed men who imitate women and women who imitate men. Abu Hurayrah, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "The Messenger of Allah sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) cursed the man who wears women’s clothes and the woman who wears men’s clothes." [Abu Dawood & Ibn Maajah]

By: Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips

Source

I have a different personal perspective on this topic.

Firstly I don't believe anyone is born homosexual, but the scientific debate on whether a person's sexuality is based upon nature or nurture is still on going and due to all the politics originating from the Western world an unbiased answer is hard to reach.

I consider homosexuality in the same group as other sexual paraphilia (such as pedophilia, necrophilia, zoophilia etc.) The issue with paraphilia as I can understand is that there is no known (non detrimental) cure for it. The individual with it experiences an involuntary and sometimes intense desire towards the given subject or object.

The reason paraphilia emergence in people is at the moment unknown and most research shows its not really a matter of choice for the person that has it and most people with it are distressed and usually suffer from depression (and some suicidal thoughts) because of it.

Now, I was talking about the attraction itself and not the action which i believe is a matter of voluntary choice (like how committing zina is a matter of choice). It is unreasonable to let people with zoophilia to commit Beastiality or necrophilias to have intercourse with dead bodies just because they have involuntary control over what they find attractive, same goes for sodomy. The argument usually used against this is "The human sexuality and desire to procreate is meant for reproduction and continuation of the human species and since all paraphilia don't contribute to that, they are unnatural and should be stopped" this argument is not unreasonable, but it still doesn't help the displaced people.

Another reasonable argument used is "All forms of sexual promiscuity run the risk of spreading STDs in that community" and this is why Islam along with the other Abrahamic religions have harsh stances and punishments against premarital sex, adultery, sodomy, beastiality... because if any of these acts were openly allowed and not punished a fitnah(calamity) will befall that society and if you consider the fact things like anti-bacteria were non existent just a few hundred years ago and a simple infection like Gonorrhea was deadly and if allowed to spread was... Well let's say not good.

My position is this. Allah tests people through various ways and to these people this is their test. It may be unreasonable for me to say, but their test to control their desires and not commit any prohibited acts, they should pray to Allah to improve their condition, find help where they can and Allah shall reward and compensate them for their struggles and patience.

Salaam.

It seem this post might've been inspired by my recent post on effeminate men and emasculate women - 8. Curse & Put out Effeminate men and Emasculate women from your houses, where I explained that the behavior of such men and women may in fact be inborn and it'll be wrong to curse them and kick them out.

4. It should be noted that Islam, in its final form, did not introduce anti-gay legislature to the world. The texts of the Torah are replete with clear condemnations of such practices.

We can't take the words of the scriptures as absolute guide. The scriptures are filled with plenty of questionable information. The Qur'an, New Testament and Old Testament all contain ideas that we've quietly rejected.

5.The consequence of AIDS is enough to prove that homosexuality is evil and dangerous to society. The early spread of AIDS was concentrated among the homosexual community. It later spread to the heterosexual and the so-called bisexual community through blood transfusions and intravenous drug usage. Its spread continues on a rampage among promiscuous heterosexuals.

Homosexuals do not necessarily engage in anal sex. And not all homosexuals are promiscuous & indulge in anal sex with multiple partners.

6. Islam considers homosexuality to be the result of a choice. It is inconceivable that God made people homosexuals then declared it a crime and prescribed punishments for it in both this life and the next. To accept such a proposition is to accept that God is unjust. Inclinations can exist within humans for a variety of natural and unnatural acts, from fornication to rape and from necrophilia to bestiality. These inclinations may come from jinn-suggestions, media influence, or even from human whisperings or direct contact. Sodomy was common among the people of Prophet Loot (Lot), may Allah exalt his mention, who lived in Sodom, Palestine; after they had rejected his advice to give up this evil practice, Allah Almighty crushed and then annihilated their city.

How then do you explain intersex? Like persons that are genetically males but phenotypically females? There are all kinds of inborn anomalies in sexual orientations in human species, you cannot absolutely overrule the probability that homosexuality is one of these inborn anomalies.

Intersex Explained:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vDVUPjBJiM

The Quran describes that punishment in the verse which means: "So when Our commandment came, We made the highest part [of the city] its lowest and rained upon them stones of hard clay in succession." [Quran: 11:82]
Human beings are not like robots who only do what they are programmed to. Humans choose and God holds them responsible for their choices. Were homosexuality a product of genetic destiny, it would be unfair for God to criminalise it and punish those who practice it. Currently, some scientists are even claiming that murder is of genetic origin. To accept that would mean to excuse murderers and tolerate murder.

That's the thing. Do you believe that the human fetus is ever a blood clot(Qur'an 23:14)? Do you believe that human sexual fluid or gamete comes from between the lower back and the ribs(Qur'an86:6-7)? The Qur'an apparently teaches all these, you don't enforce such teachings, so why enforce the teachings criminalizing homosexuality?

7.Islam instructs parents to separate their children in their beds by the age of ten in order to avoid sexual experiences which may result from childhood experimentation. Such experiences may be reinforced by contacts in schools and through abuse from adults. Also, the distinctions between male and female are strongly made in Islamic teachings.

Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) (may Allah exalt his mention) cursed men who imitate women and women who imitate men. Abu Hurayrah, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "The Messenger of Allah sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) cursed the man who wears women’s clothes and the woman who wears men’s clothes." [Abu Dawood & Ibn Maajah]

The prophet also told us in hadith that senna is a cure for all diseases and that alcohol is not a medicine. Do enjoin such teachings?

We seen signs after signs of Last Age over and over again. And we have someone here defending this evil

Empiree:
We seen signs after signs of Last Age over and over again. And we have someone here defending this evil

It seems the western "progressive liberal" shaytan is infecting Muslims as well.
May Allah protect us.

Rashduct4luv:
Homosexuality and lesbianism have been dubbed 'alternative life-styles', 'personal preference', 'natural variation', etc. In the West today, where homosexuality was once considered an illness by the Association of Psychiatrists, it has now been removed from the list and replaced by homophobia (the dislike of homosexuals and homosexuality). Consequently, Islam and Muslims are considered intolerant and biased due to their continued opposition. Arguments in favour of tolerance towards homosexuals are based on the assumption that homosexual behaviour is biologically based and not merely learned from society.

Wow, then you must have evidence/facts on what makes people homosexual.

1.Early opposition to homosexuality was based on the argument that such behaviour was unnatural. Sodomy cannot produce children, which is one of the main natural consequences of sexual relations. 'Mother Nature' did not make us that way, it was argued. To counter such arguments, homosexual researchers scoured the earth until they found supposed homosexual behaviour among the animal kingdom. They found that the males of some species of exotic fishes off the coast of Japan imitated the behaviour of females of the species in order to prevent other males from impregnating their mates, and some rare butterflies from islands off the coast of Africa also had males exhibiting female behaviour during mating season, etc. However, if the animal kingdom is to be used to justify human behaviour, there also exists a spider in South America whose female is much larger than the male. When mating is complete, the female eats her mate.

There's no phenomena that's unnatural in this natural world!, what's unnatural is the so-called spiritual realm.

Natural does not have to be positive or result to positive, I mean there are many phenomena that are harmful but still natural, there are phenomena that we don't even know it function, it causes but they are still natural e.g the causes and functions of "Yawning" are not known but it's still natural. Natural disasters, virus, diseases etc are chaotic but they are still natural.

And yes there are animals that have homosexual behavior, this is not about animals imitating another, this is something we don't fully understood. Whatever it's, it is natural!

I was expecting this article to start with definition of natural.

2.During the 1980’s it was claimed that a gland in the base of the brain which is small in women and large in men was found to be small among homosexuals. However, this evidence, while seeming incontrovertible to the layman, was immediately refuted by scientists. The data was taken from cross-sections of the brains of dead adult humans whose sexual preference was identified prior to death. Consequently, the reduced size of that gland among homosexuals could have been a result of the practice and not its cause. That is, they could have been born with normal-sized glands which then became small due to their deviant lifestyle.

3.Recently, genetics has become the most commonly used foundation for the pro-gay argument. In 1993 Dr. Dean Hamer, a researcher at the National Cancer Institute, claimed to have discovered 'the first concrete evidence that ‘gay genes’ really do exist.' Homosexual orientation was supposedly transmitted to males on the X chromosome from the mother. Hamer’s findings, published in the prestigious journal 'Science', transformed his colourless career as a government scientist into a dynamic media personality and he penned his memoirs. He gave expert testimony to the Colorado Supreme Court that formed the basis of the victorious decision striking down anti-gay propositions. However, a replication of his study at the University of Western Ontario failed to find any linkage whatsoever between the X chromosome and sexual orientation. It was also found that Hamer’s study lacked a control group; a fundamental principle of scientific research.
Furthermore, in June 1994, the Chicago Tribune reported that a junior researcher in Hamer’s laboratory who assisted in the gene mapping in the homosexuality study, alleged that he selectively reported his data. She was then summarily dismissed from her post-doctoral fellowship in Hamer’s lab. But a National Institute of Health investigation substantiated her claims and gave her another position in a different lab. Though Dr. Hamer was coy about his own sexuality in his memoirs, he later admitted in his lectures that he was gay.

Actually there are factors that was theorized by scientists on what makes people gay. There are Psychological, Environmental and Biological factors, but research favors biological factors most.

Scientists do not know what determines an individual's sexual orientation, but they theorize that it is caused by a complex interplay of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences, and do not view it as a choice. They favor biologically-based theories, which point to genetic factors, the early uterine environment, both, or the inclusion of genetic and social factors. Source

The main point we should hold is "we don't know why people are gay nor our sexual orientation" and I hold that gays don't have a choice on such sexual orientation just like heterosexual. What still strikes my thoughts is, countries like Saudi Arabia kill gays but then gays still exist in that country, I mean do people really don't thought of this that this is beyond environmental or imitating behavior?

4.It should be noted that Islam, in its final form, did not introduce anti-gay legislature to the world. The texts of the Torah are replete with clear condemnations of such practices.

But islam practice of barbarism on judging homosexuals is right? A book that suppose to be absolute moral is in infact the opposite of humanism.

5.The consequence of AIDS is enough to prove that homosexuality is evil and dangerous to society. The early spread of AIDS was concentrated among the homosexual community. It later spread to the heterosexual and the so-called bisexual community through blood transfusions and intravenous drug usage. Its spread continues on a rampage among promiscuous heterosexuals.

Erm, this is dumb. Does this means AIDs was caused by homosexuals because I'm still trying to understand this nonsense here.

So because it was first discovered among homosexual men suddenly mean they are the cause of the virus?

6.Islam considers homosexuality to be the result of a choice. It is inconceivable that God made people homosexuals then declared it a crime and prescribed punishments for it in both this life and the next. To accept such a proposition is to accept that God is unjust. Inclinations can exist within humans for a variety of natural and unnatural acts, from fornication to rape and from necrophilia to bestiality. These inclinations may come from jinn-suggestions, media influence, or even from human whisperings or direct contact. Sodomy was common among the people of Prophet Loot (Lot), may Allah exalt his mention, who lived in Sodom, Palestine; after they had rejected his advice to give up this evil practice, Allah Almighty crushed and then annihilated their city. The Quran describes that punishment in the verse which means: "So when Our commandment came, We made the highest part [of the city] its lowest and rained upon them stones of hard clay in succession." [Quran: 11:82]
Human beings are not like robots who only do what they are programmed to. Humans choose and God holds them responsible for their choices. Were homosexuality a product of genetic destiny, it would be unfair for God to criminalise it and punish those who practice it. Currently, some scientists are even claiming that murder is of genetic origin. To accept that would mean to excuse murderers and tolerate murder.

If there is a God that's all merciful, perfect, all-knowing and the absolute planner then whatever happens in this world is God responsibility, God is responsible for whatever happen because if he knew gays will exist and they will be punished cruelly then such thing has gay shouldn't exist in the first place. It's either God is malevolent or imperfect!

I have created a thread on this before. >> https://www.nairaland.com/4928579/did-allah-know-what-happen

If scientists said murder is genetic they don't mean it is morally good, science has nothing to do with what's moral and what's not, if murder is harming a fellow human then it should not be accepted, it should be regulated.

7.Islam instructs parents to separate their children in their beds by the age of ten in order to avoid sexual experiences which may result from childhood experimentation. Such experiences may be reinforced by contacts in schools and through abuse from adults. Also, the distinctions between male and female are strongly made in Islamic teachings.

Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) (may Allah exalt his mention) cursed men who imitate women and women who imitate men. Abu Hurayrah, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "The Messenger of Allah sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) cursed the man who wears women’s clothes and the woman who wears men’s clothes." [Abu Dawood & Ibn Maajah]

By: Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips

Source

And how exactly does this stop homosexuality?

I just gave example of homosexual existing in Saudi Arabia that kill gays, does this stop it?

Even playing along with the strongly separating male from female, does this not in any way trigger homosexual behavior?

IMAliyu:
I have a different personal perspective on this topic.

Firstly I don't believe anyone is born homosexual, but the scientific debate on whether a person's sexuality is based upon nature or nurture is still on going and due to all the politics originating from the Western world an unbiased answer is hard to reach.

Give your reasons @bolded.

I consider homosexuality in the same group as other sexual paraphilia (such as pedophilia, necrophilia, zoophilia etc.) The issue with paraphilia as I can understand is that there is no known (non detrimental) cure for it. The individual with it experiences an involuntary and sometimes intense desire towards the given subject or object.

The reason paraphilia emergence in people is at the moment unknown and most research shows its not really a matter of choice for the person that has it and most people with it are distressed and usually suffer from depression (and some suicidal thoughts) because of it.

If any actions as regard paraphilia has to do with hurting someone then it should not be accepted. Pedophilia is practiced in the muslim world and accepted because the religion made it permissible.

Now, I was talking about the attraction itself and not the action which i believe is a matter of voluntary choice (like how committing zina is a matter of choice). It is unreasonable to let people with zoophilia to commit Beastiality or necrophilias to have intercourse with dead bodies just because they have involuntary control over what they find attractive, same goes for sodomy. The argument usually used against this is "The human sexuality and desire to procreate is meant for reproduction and continuation of the human species and since all paraphilia don't contribute to that, they are unnatural and should be stopped" this argument is not unreasonable, but it still doesn't help the displaced people.

Lol, so you think homosexuals don't procreate? Are you in the cave or what?

How can you stop what is natural? You can't stop what's natural but regulate it. Like i said there's no phenomena that's unnatural in this natural world, can you tell me how you place a phenomena that it cause is unknown or not a choice something unnatural, can you explain how you arrive at "unnatural"?

And don't place homosexual in same place with paraphilia, homosexuality is classified as sexual orientation (in same category with heterosexual).

Another reasonable argument used is "All forms of sexual promiscuity run the risk of spreading STDs in that community" and this is why Islam along with the other Abrahamic religions have harsh stances and punishments against premarital sex, adultery, sodomy, beastiality... because if any of these acts were openly allowed and not punished a fitnah(calamity) will befall that society and if you consider the fact things like anti-bacteria were non existent just a few hundred years ago and a simple infection like Gonorrhea was deadly and if allowed to spread was... Well let's say not good.

I would like to know how adultery, promiscuity, homosexuality etc deserve a cruel punishment like killing them. What exactly is their offense?

The argument that they spread STDs is lame because even in marriages this won't stop spreading. There are other diseases, problems that's not even related to this, what would say about that?

Your God that is suppose to have given reasonable solution to this problems from onset gave barbaric judgement, a God that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, a God that's all-knowing and perfect. I wonder how you people see reasons in this nonsense.

My position is this. Allah tests people through various ways and to these people this is their test. It may be unreasonable for me to say, but their test to control their desires and not commit any prohibited acts, they should pray to Allah to improve your condition, find help where they can and Allah shall reward and compensate them for their struggles and patience.

Testing is meaningless if your God is all-knowing and can see the future in details!

IMAliyu:

It seems the western "progressive liberal" shaytan is infecting Muslims as well.
May Allah protect us.

You haven't seen anything yet. Dont believe in that crap called progressive. They have agenda. You will see gay Imams and proud in America. Dajjal's deception is real. Progressive ideology that i subscribed to is the one based on knowledge of Quran that evolves with time and not rigid. But progressive that allows vices and defends it like the dude is doing by trying to reinterpret Quran is no no for me.

IMAliyu:

It seems the western "progressive liberal" shaytan is infecting Muslims as well.
May Allah protect us.

Empiree:
You haven't seen anything yet. Dont believe in that crap called progressive. They have agenda. You will see gay Imams and proud in America. Dajjal's deception is real. Progressive ideology that i subscribed to is the one based on knowledge of Quran that evolves with time and not rigid. But progressive that allows vices and defends it like the dude is doing by trying to reinterpret Quran is no no for me.

Conspiracy theory.

tintingz:
Give your reasons @bolded.

I don't believe anyone is born homosexual as much as i don't believe anyone is born straight.
Sexuality results from a combination of both biological and environmental factors, but heterosexuality is still where majority of people end up and the perceived norm.

If any actions as regard paraphilia has to do with hurting someone then it should not be accepted. Pedophilia is practiced in the muslim world and accepted because the religion made it permissible.

True and quite unfortunate
I'm thinking about opening a thread around this and other bad habits we have.

Lol, so you think homosexuals don't procreate? Are you in the cave or what?

How can you stop what is natural? You can't stop what's natural but regulate it. Like i said there's no phenomena that's unnatural in this natural world, can you tell me how you place a phenomena that it cause is unknown or not a choice something unnatural, can you explain how you arrive at "unnatural"?

Yeah.. I've never heard of two biological males or females being able to conceive on their own. I do know that gay couples do have kids through surrogacy or adoption though.
I'm assuming you are responding to this quote "The human sexuality and desire to procreate is meant for reproduction and continuation of the human species and since all paraphilia don't contribute to that, they are unnatural and should be stopped" I was just showing the most common argument used to oppose homosexuality and not to argue whether it is something natural or not. The fact that homosexuality is almost everywhere in human history would lead me to believe it is a natural occurrence, but I tried looking at things from a natural selection point of view and I can't honestly understand why this is the case. Like why would homosexuality evolve if it doesn't have any advantages?

And don't place homosexual in same place with paraphilia, homosexuality is classified as sexual orientation (in same category with heterosexual).

Ok.

I would like to know how adultery, promiscuity, homosexuality etc deserve a cruel punishment like killing them. What exactly is their offense?

The argument that they spread STDs is lame because even in marriages this won't stop spreading. There are other diseases, problems that's not even related to this, what would say about that?

The believed reason why marriage exists in most cultures around the world is this. It is a social integration, control and constraints over human sexual desires and actions (there are other reasons like child care, faith, property sharing etc. but I'm only going to focus on the sex part) this establishes a contract between the married individuals (in that they know who they sleep with and have faith in themselves to not sleep with anyone outside) and the society they live in expecting them to uphold that contract. And the breach of this contract runs the risk of creating social problems and Potential spread of STDs
An example of what I'm talking about https://www.avert.org/professionals/hiv-around-world/sub-saharan-africa/nigeria
This is probably my own personal view, but I see the harsh punishments as serving more of a deterrent purpose rather than something to actually be exacuted.

Your God that is suppose to have given reasonable solution to this problems from onset gave barbaric judgement, a God that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, a God that's all-knowing and perfect. I wonder how you people see reasons in this nonsense.

Testing is meaningless if your God is all-knowing and can see the future in details!

We went through a back and forth on this subject a while ago and i don't feel like going through it again. And to add you don't believe in the existence of God, tests and don't believe in any of these stories. So it's useless to explain myself here.

tintingz:




Conspiracy theory.

Are we not allowed to have theories about conspiracies between ourselves again?

IMAliyu:

Are we not allowed to have theories about conspiracies between ourselves again?

Well, if you wanna keep being delusional.

IMAliyu:


I don't believe anyone is born homosexual as much as i don't believe anyone is born straight.
Sexuality results from a combination of both biological and environmental factors, but heterosexuality is still where majority of people end up and the perceived norm.

Well, like I said whatever the cause of sexual orientation is, it's natural.

True and quite unfortunate
I'm thinking about opening a thread around this and other bad habits we have.

Ok

Yeah.. I've never heard of two biological males or females being able to conceive on their own. I do know that gay couples do have kids through surrogacy or adoption though.

They still procreate that's the point.

I'm assuming you are responding to this quote "The human sexuality and desire to procreate is meant for reproduction and continuation of the human species and since all paraphilia don't contribute to that, they are unnatural and should be stopped" I was just showing the most common argument used to oppose homosexuality and not to argue whether it is something natural or not. The fact that homosexuality is almost everywhere in human history would lead me to believe it is a natural occurrence, but I tried looking at things from a natural selection point of view and I can't honestly understand why this is the case. Like why would homosexuality evolve if it doesn't have any advantages?

It's evolving because it's a natural feeling. What causes this feeling is still something not clearly understood.

The believed reason why marriage exists in most cultures around the world is this. It is a social integration, control and constraints over human sexual desires and actions (there are other reasons like child care, faith, property sharing etc. but I'm only going to focus on the sex part) this establishes a contract between the married individuals (in that they know who they sleep with and have faith in themselves to not sleep with anyone outside) and the society they live in expecting them to uphold that contract. And the breach of this contract runs the risk of creating social problems and Potential spread of STDs
An example of what I'm talking about https://www.avert.org/professionals/hiv-around-world/sub-saharan-africa/nigeria
This is probably my own personal view, but I see the harsh punishments as serving more of a deterrent purpose rather than something to actually be exacuted.

Human naturally are polygamous and monogamous, and yes marriage was created to control this but then it can't totally control what's natural. There's nothing one can do.

I don't see adultery, homosexuality, promiscuity as a threat in the society when it's a consensual thing and not harmful, I don't see why there should be harsh punishment or death penalty for this, there are worse threats we should be worried about instead of this.

Religions(Abrahamic religion especially) should get over this archaic punishment.

We went through a back and forth on this subject a while ago and i don't feel like going through it again. And to add you don't believe in the existence of God, tests and don't believe in any of these stories. So it's useless to explain myself here.

This is a topic I will keep debating those that believe we have freewill together with destiny and a God is testing us when he's all-knowing and the planner.

I mean the paradox is obvious.

tintingz:


Wow, then you must have evidence/facts on what makes people homosexual.

There's no phenomena that's unnatural in this natural world!, what's unnatural is the so-called spiritual realm.

Natural does not have to be positive or result to positive, I mean there are many phenomena that are harmful but still natural, there are phenomena that we don't even know it function, it causes but they are still natural e.g the causes and functions of "Yawning" are not known but it's still natural. Natural disasters, virus, diseases etc are chaotic but they are still natural.

And yes there are animals that have homosexual behavior, this is not about animals imitating another, this is something we don't fully understood. Whatever it's, it is natural!

I was expecting this article to start with definition of natural.



Actually there are factors that was theorized by scientists on what makes people gay. There are Psychological, Environmental and Biological factors, but research favors biological factors most.

Scientists do not know what determines an individual's sexual orientation, but they theorize that it is caused by a complex interplay of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences, and do not view it as a choice. They favor biologically-based theories, which point to genetic factors, the early uterine environment, both, or the inclusion of genetic and social factors. Source

The main point we should hold is "we don't know why people are gay nor our sexual orientation" and I hold that gays don't have a choice on such sexual orientation just like heterosexual. What still strikes my thoughts is, countries like Saudi Arabia kill gays but then gays still exist in that country, I mean do people really don't thought of this that this is beyond environmental or imitating behavior?

But islam practice of barbarism on judging homosexuals is right? A book that suppose to be absolute moral is in infact the opposite of humanism.

Erm, this is dumb. Does this means AIDs was caused by homosexuals because I'm still trying to understand this nonsense here.

So because it was first discovered among homosexual men suddenly mean they are the cause of the virus?

If there is a God that's all merciful, perfect, all-knowing and the absolute planner then whatever happens in this world is God responsibility, God is responsible for whatever happen because if he knew gays will exist and they will be punished cruelly then such thing has gay shouldn't exist in the first place. It's either God is malevolent or imperfect!

I have created a thread on this before. >> https://www.nairaland.com/4928579/did-allah-know-what-happen

If scientists said murder is genetic they don't mean it is morally good, science has nothing to do with what's moral and what's not, if murder is harming a fellow human then it should not be accepted, it should be regulated.

And how exactly does this stop homosexuality?

I just gave example of homosexual existing in Saudi Arabia that kill gays, does this stop it?

Even playing along with the strongly separating male from female, does this not in any way trigger homosexual behavior?

Atheist comments as usual! How many of your generations were homosexuals? So if one of your kin starts now, it will be deemed natural right?

The posts said AIDS was spread by homosexuals and you are saying AIDS was caused by them!
I don't have your time Mr. Strawman!

Rashduct4luv:


Atheist comments as usual! How many of your generations were homosexuals? So if one of your kin starts now, it will be deemed natural right?

Lol, So what gave you the impression non of my and your generations before us were not homosexuals? Homosexuality does not stop people from procreating.

And yes if any of kin is gay, I will take it natural and embrace such person. I'm not a sadist barbaric person that kill humans because of their sexual orientation.

The posts said AIDS was spread by homosexuals and you are saying AIDS was caused by them!
I don't have your time Mr. Strawman!

Ok, assuming gay doesn't exist, do you think AIDS won't exist?

Africa has the highest HIV/AIDS rate and majority countries in Africa don't even practice nor legalize homosexuality, please tell me how it got so spread?

usermane:
Salaam.

It seem this post might've been inspired by my recent post on effeminate men and emasculate women - 8. Curse & Put out Effeminate men and Emasculate women from your houses, where I explained that the behavior of such men and women may in fact be inborn and it'll be wrong to curse them and kick them out.



We can't take the words of the scriptures as absolute guide. The scriptures are filled with plenty of questionable information. The Qur'an, New Testament and Old Testament all contain ideas that we've quietly rejected.



Homosexuals do not necessarily engage in anal sex. And not all homosexuals are promiscuous & indulge in anal sex with multiple partners.



How then do you explain intersex? Like persons that are genetically males but phenotypically females? There are all kinds of inborn anomalies in sexual orientations in human species, you cannot absolutely overrule the probability that homosexuality is one of these inborn anomalies.

Intersex Explained:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vDVUPjBJiM



That's the thing. Do you believe that the human fetus is ever a blood clot(Qur'an 23:14)? Do you believe that human sexual fluid or gamete comes from between the lower back and the ribs(Qur'an86:6-7)? The Qur'an apparently teaches all these, you don't enforce such teachings, so why enforce the teachings criminalizing homosexuality?



The prophet also told us in hadith that senna is a cure for all diseases and that alcohol is not a medicine. Do enjoin such teachings?

Inasmuch as i want to minimise responding to atheists and people with unknown/warped ideologies hiding in this section, i still will like to clarify some of your mistakes on the Qur'an. The Qur'an was revealed in Arabic and translators may select translated words based on there perceived knowledge as at that specific time. We ask Allah to grant immense rewards to those sincere translators.

Qur'an 23:14 is translated thus in 4 different Qur'an translations:

MUHSIN KHAN
Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators.

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah, the best of creators.

DR. GHALI
Thereafter We created the sperm-drop into a clot, (Or: embryo) then We created the clot into a chewed up morsel, then We created the chewed up morsel into bones, then We dressed the bones (in) flesh; thereafter We brought him into being as another creation. So Supremely Blessed be Allah, The Fairest of creators.

DR. MUSTAFA KHATTAB, THE CLEAR QURAN
then We developed the drop into a clinging clot ˹of blood˺, then developed the clot into a lump ˹of flesh˺, then developed the lump into bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, then We brought it into being as a new creation. So Blessed is Allah, the Best of Creators.

On the lower back and the ribs from (Qur'an86:6-7)

There are some serious problems with this translation and the assumptions made therein.

To begin with, these verses say nothing whatsoever about the creation of sperm or the creation of anything else. Consequently, they do not inform us of where the creation of sperm takes place. They merely say that the substances under discussion come out form the places being described. The word being used is "yakhruj" meaning "to exit, leave, come out, emerge". It in no way implies anything related to creation or origination.

Secondly, the phrase "mâ' dâfiq" (emitted fluid) is not restricted in meaning to sperm but is used in Arabic for both the sperm and the egg. Ibn Kathîr, in his commentary on this verse, writes: "It emanates from the man and the woman, and with Allah's permission, the child comes forth as a product of both."

Thirdly, the words translated as "backbone" (sulb) and "ribs" (tarâ'ib) are not understood in Arabic to belong to the same person. Arabs understand the "sulb" to refer to a part of the male body and the "tarâ'ib" to a part of the female. Ibn Kathîr states: "It refers to the 'sulb' of the man and the 'tarâ'ib' of the woman, which is the area of her chest." He then quotes this interpretation on the authority of the Prophet's companion Ibn `Abbâs. This same understanding is given in all the major classical works of Qur'anic commentary.

Moreover, the word "sulb" should not necessarily be translated as "backbone". This word has many possible meanings and backbone is only one of them. It is also quite commonly used to mean the loins of a man. This is how it is used elsewhere in the Qur'ân. Allah says: "Prohibited to you (for marriage) are.wives of your sons proceeding from your loins (aslâb, the plural of sulb)." [Sûrah al-Nisâ': 23] There can be no problem with sperm coming out from the area of a man's loins.

Likewise, when we look at the word being translated as "ribs" (tarâ'ib, the plural of tarîbah) we find that it is used linguistically for the general are of the chest and the abdomen. In al-Qâmûs, the famous classical dictionary of al-Fayrûzabâdî it is defined as a number of things: "the bones of the chest or what comes after the two collarbones or what comes between the collarbones and the chest or the four ribs to the right of the chest or the four ribs to the left of the chest or the hands, eyes and feet or the collarbones." Some Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and some Successors had also provided many possible meanings, like the lower ribs and al-Dahhâk's statement that it is the area between the breasts and feet and the eyes (a mere indication of centrality).

This word clearly has a very broad and diverse definition. It is so ambiguous a word that the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) could not give it a precise definition. Scholars of Qur'ânic commentary have consistently admitted to there being at least three different possible meanings for this word as it is used in the verse. This is an admission that they do not know for certain what the tarâ'ib are, except that they generally agree it refers to an area of the woman's body. It can apply to any region nearing the ribcage. Therefore, the area of the ovaries, the fallopian tubes, or the uterus can easily fit into the general area that is being indicated by these verses.

What we are dealing with here is a gross error in translation and not a scientific error at all.

I think you should stop speaking beyond what you know.

Is ok I dey hear

Homosexuality is as natural as the air we breathe. There are different shades of grey not every thing is black and white. Religion needs to stop this archaic pokenose into sex. I don't get the obsession of religion and sex.

In fact deep Islamic Arabs engage in Homosexuality secretly but will come out to condemn it!

HOMOPHOBIA IS SUCH HARD WORK, DON'T YOU THINK?

apcmustwin:
Homosexuality is as natural as the air we breathe. There are different shades of grey not every thing is black and white. Religion needs to stop this archaic pokenose into sex. I don't get the obsession of religion and sex.

Homosexuality is not natural but Pedophilia is, to Islam. Imagine being bothered by what two consenting adults chose to do with their sex lives.

Temple1288:
In fact deep Islamic Arabs engage in Homosexuality secretly but will come out to condemn it!

That's what disgusts me about religious people, in many Islamic places even northern Nigeria here, homosexuality is very regular even young boys and girls ain't spared. just don't get caught or their fellow hypocrites will want to use you as an example for their religion

taqiyya...

it's simple, islams position about homosexuality has been clear from the 7th century. death is the punishment for homosexuality. no Need to post all those long gibberish. let's go to the hadith & tasfir if you argue with me.

IamBlanco:
taqiyya...

it's simple, islams position about homosexuality has been clear from the 7th century. death is the punishment for homosexuality. no Need to post all those long gibberish. let's go to the hadith & tasfir if you argue with me.

To brand everything said by a Muslim that doesn't flue your one dimensional antagonistic view of Islam as taqiyya is lazy.
And if you had the eyes to read, no Muslim on this thread is advocating for a position on homosexuality contrary to the generally accepted one in Islam.

IMAliyu:

To brand everything said by a Muslim that doesn't flue your one dimensional antagonistic view of Islam as taqiyya is lazy.
And if you had the eyes to read, no Muslim on this thread is advocating for a position on homosexuality contrary to the generally accepted one in Islam.

then which is the generally accept one in Islam?

IamBlanco:


then which is the generally accept one in Islam?

All forms of same sex intercourse and sodomy is haram(prohibited) and if anyone is caught in the action with sufficient witnesses and proof to be punished according to the law(derived from the religious text).

usermane:
Salaam.

It seem this post might've been inspired by my recent post on effeminate men and emasculate women - 8. Curse & Put out Effeminate men and Emasculate women from your houses, where I explained that the behavior of such men and women may in fact be inborn and it'll be wrong to curse them and kick them out.



We can't take the words of the scriptures as absolute guide. The scriptures are filled with plenty of questionable information. The Qur'an, New Testament and Old Testament all contain ideas that we've quietly rejected.



Homosexuals do not necessarily engage in anal sex. And not all homosexuals are promiscuous & indulge in anal sex with multiple partners.



How then do you explain intersex? Like persons that are genetically males but phenotypically females? There are all kinds of inborn anomalies in sexual orientations in human species, you cannot absolutely overrule the probability that homosexuality is one of these inborn anomalies.

Intersex Explained:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vDVUPjBJiM



That's the thing. Do you believe that the human fetus is ever a blood clot(Qur'an 23:14)? Do you believe that human sexual fluid or gamete comes from between the lower back and the ribs(Qur'an86:6-7)? The Qur'an apparently teaches all these, you don't enforce such teachings, so why enforce the teachings criminalizing homosexuality?



The prophet also told us in hadith that senna is a cure for all diseases and that alcohol is not a medicine. Do enjoin such teachings?

I disagree with you here. Homosexuality is a serious sexual perversion that must never be tolerated in any society. There is no any definitive scientific proof that concludes that 'homosexual' urge in in-born. This is an excuse made up by the proponents of this evil practices to make it acceptable in any given society. It shouldn't even be open to civil debate but for the moral degradation of Europe and the US, the advocates are punishing a satanic agenda to the public.

true2god:
I disagree with you here. Homosexuality is a serious sexual perversion that must never be tolerated in any society. There is no any definitive scientific proof that concludes that 'homosexual' urge in in-born. This is an excuse made up by the proponents of this evil practices to make it acceptable in any given society. It shouldn't even be open to civil debate but for the moral degradation of Europe and the US, the advocates are punishing a satanic agenda to the public.

Do you have proof on what causes sexual orientation?

And why does homosexual behavior exist in the animal kingdom?

sanpipita:


That's what disgusts me about religious people, in many Islamic places even northern Nigeria here, homosexuality is very regular even young boys and girls ain't spared. just don't get caught or their fellow hypocrites will want to use you as an example for their religion

You people should stop acting as if you are always clever when you are just showing us how shallow you are in understanding

Why should religion not tell us how we should mate when marriage which is mainly for sexual procreation is at the core of religious ethics.
I think you guys have sniffed too much stupidity to be vomiting this trash.

And the way some of you validate queer behaviour I won't be surprised if you advocate that those who steal and kidnap should be left alone as far they did not kidnap you,it is fair and good;and we should mind our business since the kidnapping is not affecting us.

This how stupid some of argue and this how foolish you will keep going.

As the world gotten any better since you "consenting adults " bull crap" excuse you keep making?

Robynwelo1:


Homosexuality is not natural but Pedophilia is, to Islam. Imagine being bothered by what two consenting adults chose to do with their sex lives.

What do you even understand by the word "pedophilia?"

And tell us how Islam is promoting it?

I have observed that some of you just blab like toddlers learning how to speak without thinking through what you say.
After all,you don't really care, as far as everybody is saying it why shouldn't I say the same.
This is the compound foolishness many of you are suffering from.
This kind of herd mentality is what is killing innocent people in this country.
Nonsense!

tintingz:
Do you have proof on what causes sexual orientation?

And why does homosexual behavior exist in the animal kingdom?

We are now using animal behavior to validate how humans should acts?

So this is what atheism and atheist are bent on doing.
They want us to do away with religion and adopt another set of ideas promoted by them, but they refuse to call it religion because it will sound one kind.
Do I really blame you people.

And we all. know that there are many things science can't define.

Can you tell us if your so called metric of scientific validity
can explain to. us what love is? Does it exist? If it does, what its origin,weight,form,smell and chemical composition?

What does science have to say about determination?

What does science has to say about sadness?

what does science has to say about grief?

What does science has to say about hate?

There are many things atheist in their so called logical confusion can't fully tell us yet they want us to embrace another set of codes made by them for us to follow.


Back to the topic.

Homosexuality is a matter of choice;you can choose to act out what you feel and you can also choose to subdue it through other means.
Saying homosexuality is innate is similar to. saying becoming a thief or a fraudster is innate,becaue I have come across people who say they feel stealing is okay just like you hear those who validate fraud to be okay.
And blaming God for their action because he "pre-planned " it is like blaming God that you don't believe in; that He is making you to say things against Him.

Oh! did God pre-planned it that you would speak against Him and question some of His actions and will?
Or you are just under some "control" that is making you to talk and act the way you feel but you don't know why you speak and act the way you do?

I think this is another level of logical inconsistency and intellectual buffoonery being exhibited by a self acclaimed intellectual.

And it seems there is more to this that you are not telling us.

Temple1288:
In fact deep Islamic Arabs engage in Homosexuality secretly but will come out to condemn it!

If Islamic Arabs engage in such act how does it validate it?
Sometimes you people argue with you nose in your anus.

So, if somebody from my race or tribe steals it means stealing is natural.
Is this not stupidity?!