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Stats: 2,714,728 members, 6,415,277 topics. Date: Sunday, 01 August 2021 at 08:59 AM
|Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by etrange: 10:46am On Jun 16, 2019|
My name is etrange. I am putting this post here because it is response to the thread:
First, I would like to thank EternalBeing for bringing things into perspective and thus giving me grounds to stand on. I would not have been able to easily put my thoughts together if not for the clearer picture he painted with his writing skills. This thread is therefore with all due respect to him.
So I've heard a lot of people cry out about how our society has detoriated in recent times. These people would rather return to "the past". I agree with the first part but not the later. I believe a return to the past way of doing things is outrightly against the concept of progress. The bad aspects of our society today are direct or indirect results of the progress we've made in the good aspects. Like the two sides of a coin, these cannot be separated or treated in isolation.
Most times, we idolize the past because of certain things we believe were better then. We do not appreciate what change has brought our way in recent times. But what we fail to realise is that what we refere to as "the past" is only a selective phase of our existence. The fact that this prefered phase is different from the phases before it is as a result of change. Change comes with both good and bad. Therefore, before you take the nearest route to this wonderland, a holistic consideration might be necessary. Do you want to go back to the days when men married many wives as a sign of wealth? Do you want to go back to the days when women's genitals were being mutilated? Do you want to go back to the days when SS babies were harmed cause they were believed to be Ogbanje? Do you want to go back to the days when twins were killed by some people? Do you want to go back to the days when people didn't know Jesus? I guess not, these are not days you were referring to. You were probably referring to a more recent past, a prefered phase brought about by change. You appreciated the change that made this phase different, favourable and pleasant but wish it died afterwards so the phase may live forever. But then, that's not possible. There are people who are free today because of the recent changes. They would never wantto go back to your preferred phase.
Haven said that, I would like to add that I, personally, wouldn't want to just return to those days but I totally agree there are some things we had better then and retracing our steps in those regards would be great. I don't want to return to those days because I adore the mental freedom I enjoy today. It may seem ridiculous but the difference between those days of your prefered phase and now is freedom (IMO). In those days, society created norms and you must abide by them. People decided what was right and what was wrong on behalf of others. A man was expected to do certain things at different stages of his life: there was time to leave your father's house, there was time to get married, there was time to have kids, there was a way to talk, a way you must dress, etc. Anything out of these norms made one a social misfit. You dare not complain. There was no room for personality differences. Don't even mention preferences.
These societal cages are still there today but thanks to change, we are getting free gradually. Even those who criticise today's society are enjoying these freedom. Today, I can decide to start giving birth years after marriage, I can decide to stay single forever, I can decide to embrace any religion of my choice, I can decide to be a career woman, I can decide to be a female politician, I can decide to be a female pastor; but I can also decide to be a hoe (no gender is better off here).
The less progressive and more conservative folks believe that people with alternative choices are a threat to the sanity of our society. I do not see it this way. I believe society has been broken down into more personalised chunks since mankind now appreciates human differences. You are now allowed to create your own society just as you want it and let others create theirs just as they want provided no party is being harmed. Society is now your circle full of people that share your ideology. We must therefore learn to disagree in peace. Where necessary, we can be friendly but not friends. Let people live within their prefered society provided a third party is not harmed.
So here's my take: Mankind has gone through different stages and it will continue to do so. No stage is particularly better and we are not moving back to any passed stage based on selective aspects. We must bear in mind that some people have achieved great heights today cause of the changes that brought about the modern day society, some are even alive today cause of these changes. So there's no need clamouring for a return to a certain point in time cause it favours our own ideology. But we can borrow some leaves from different phases of the past and use them as guides for relating with people in our chosen societies. Above all, we must learn to live and let live.
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|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Dlee1(m): 1:10pm On Jun 16, 2019|
@O.P. I think what EthernalBeing was referring on his thread was the general life of the Christians in the past which was more of holiness than this present day Christians who are so treacherous. I believe you mistook him that he was referring to the olden days societal ways of life. Olden days Christians preached and lived holy life where as modern day Christians preaches prosperity and swims in sin.
This is just my observation, no string attached.
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|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by etrange: 2:06pm On Jun 16, 2019|
He sighted examples of what referred to as the days of old. Those weren't picked from the lives of early Christians. Those were instances of what our society used to be prior to the media age. Selective instances by the way.
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|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Marvyx(m): 2:07pm On Jun 16, 2019|
Exactly my thoughts when I read halfway through his write up. We can decide to progress as a society in technology, knowledge et al but the ways of Christians aren't supposed to change which. That was what brought revival as those days. Read about men of old like Babalola, people in thousands were turned to Christ and that greatly influenced the society to shun unholy practices. I can't even begin to document my heart cry here. Our generation is surely worse than sodom and gomorrah in terms of sinning if we tell ourselves the truth.
May God help us.
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|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by etrange: 3:08pm On Jun 16, 2019|
I don't think he was referring to lives of the early Christians as taught in religious studies because those days predates the advent of Christianity in Nigeria and his examples of what things used to be like then were all locally mined. It only shows he was referring to a more recent past, a time in our history when things were supposedly better. But then again, even if he was talking about the EC's, we in this part of the world never lived like the early Christians. All we know about them were what we were thought by same Christians. Glossy and sugary in terms of inter human relationship but we don't know how the minority faired. Those whose story we never got to hear. Those who didn't want to be circumcised. Those woman who wanted more in society. Those scholars whose findings contradicted the teachings of religious leaders.
All these are just by the way though. My main stance is that religion as of old would not fair well today without some changes. This is what we need to know. This is what bokoharam guys need to know. Culture is evolving and it's taking religion along with it. At a point, it was ok to marry many wives; at a point it wasn't. In both cases religion/Christianity condoned it. Before, women couldn't teach in churches, today they do. In both cases, religion found a way to fall in line. The white man criminalized homosexuality, today it's acceptable over there and guess what, religion is condoning it. As we evolve, as we learn more, we keep changing and anything that refuses to be refined becomes toxic (as in the case of bokoharam).
I don't know how to say this without coming off as anti Christian but this efforts to separate religion from other aspects of societal modifications are not practical. The truth is, religion can hardly be treated in isolation. As a matter of fact, it is a component of culture and as such bound to be influenced by other parts of the bigger picture. My point is, while the basic values of Christianity might remain fairly intact, the practices are definitely going to evolve with respect to what is obtainable in society. This progression accounts for the differences between the old and new testament and if we one should write another book of the bible today, I bet it'll reflect the factors that nuances today's society from what was obtainable when the new testament was written. People know better today and insisting on old religious practices in the face of facts against it will make us not any different from Bokoharam. Women are gradually finding their bearing in society today, abortion has saved lives and aided birth control, blood transfusion is saving lives today, slavery is illegal in many countries, etc. These heights wouldn't have been possible if we didn't know where and when to shun religion.
Hope you see my point.
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|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by budaatum: 4:10pm On Jun 16, 2019|
Christianity of the past solved the problems of the past but is very ineffective at solving the problems of today. That's why understandings of religion evolves just as the issues they solve have evolved as clearly taught by Jesus' "ideology of love" evolving from Yahweh's wrath.
Our current Christianity is a "Christianity of 'belief", as dictated by the Word, but we are slowly evolving to a "Christianity of Understanding and Knowing" according to the Comforter, which arrives like a thief in the night.
Come Lord! Come Now!
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|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by etrange: 4:15pm On Jun 16, 2019|
If only all Christians shared this view!
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|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by budaatum: 4:16pm On Jun 16, 2019|
etrange:Soon come. We are preaching it.
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Palehair: 4:41am On Jun 17, 2019|
etrange:Ok, i wish I could like this a billion times
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Elvis778(m): 7:37am On Jun 18, 2019|
etrange:oh lord, this is exactly what I've been trying to explain to these over religious folks, thinz are changing but they won't understand,
at a point in the Bible, it was very ok to sleep with your brother's wife after your brother's death, infact, God punished a man cuz he failed to do so, but today it is a sin......
At a point, slavery wasn't bad, people had slaves as sign of wealth, it wasn't bad either.......
At a point, anointed men like samson slept with harlots, it wasn't bad then..........these are all adjustments, then, it was the general way of life and everything had to be adjusted to fit into the society.
The new testament also adjusted to fit into the society before them before and after the death of Christ.
But some folks in our own society feel it's a sin to adjust too,
but it won't last though, cuz change is constant and can't be suppressed,
at most, the suppressing factor will be cut off by the majority,
just like most of our African tradition was cut off long ago.
And am sure we wouldn't want that to happen....
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|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by etrange: 8:45am On Jun 18, 2019|
Thanks for seeing my point.
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by etrange: 8:48am On Jun 18, 2019|
You've said it all. Society will keep changing. It's either other factors tag along or they'll be left behind.
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|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Flairoqy(m): 2:44pm On May 24, 2020|
To think there are some thread meant for intellects on NL, like a special private group of people.
I like reading more than contributing because I might just elevate way off the main point.
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|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Kobojunkie: 5:24am On May 27, 2020|
Dlee1:Engineered/Mechanical Holiness is no better than what we have today!
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by kkins25(m): 4:16am On May 28, 2020|
Elvis778:and most importantly; these books of wisdom demonstrate the structure of society as human awareness evolved. GOD has only one law; LOVE. As we gather more understanding of LOVE, we alter our scriptures and consequently our laws.
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|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by donjazet(m): 10:25am On Aug 05, 2020|
Very good thread.
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Dtruthspeaker: 10:28am On Aug 05, 2020|
The Truth is in the past! Today, we live in a world full of Lies and Lying!
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Dtruthspeaker: 10:34am On Aug 05, 2020|
Christianity is not the Problem but the Doing of the Right and the Good is.
Which was both in the past, as it is now and shall be tomorrow until judgment day.
So you are not saying anything different from Eternalbeing, for you are both complaining about the Doing of Wrongs and Wickedness which A True Christian says No one must do!
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Dtruthspeaker: 10:42am On Aug 05, 2020|
The Everlasting Law is to Do That Which is Good and not to do that which is wrong or bad or wicked or evil, whether in History or Present or Mystery (future)
But man keeps making his own way so as to avoid obeying this Eternal Law!
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Dtruthspeaker: 10:48am On Aug 05, 2020|
I do not know which books of wisdom you have in mind but my Book of Wisdom tells us that No matter what we do and how many times we try to change and evade The King of All, The Mighty God and King, and His Laws and His Truths shall Never Change and We shall All Be Judged on That Day by These Set and UnchangedTruths and Laws, On That Day!
So man can change all he wants But He Shall Never Escape the Eternal Unflinching and Unwavering Truth of God!
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by kkins25(m): 6:44pm On Aug 05, 2020|
Dtruthspeaker:is it that difficult that the book of wisdom is practically referring to the Bible, which i presumed most people take as ultimate word of God. Why are you arguing with me when i only just paraphrased Jesus's teachings on LOVE being the ultimate Law.
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Dtruthspeaker: 6:56pm On Aug 05, 2020|
Sorry, I was not certain it was the Bible you were referring.
Crossing swords with these wicked souls here makes me wary of unclear statements. I do apologize.
Our Lord Advocated Love as you said but we have the evil one and his children here with us, So Wisdom is also Strongly Advocated especially in these last days of Scoffers and Derailers and Perverters of Righteousness and Goodness.
Men, I hate these days, they are truly wicked times and I do not enjoy living with or among these wicked souls.
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Elvis778(m): 9:55pm On Aug 05, 2020|
Dtruthspeaker:What is the definition off GOOD and BAD??
That's the p, my point is, the definition of GOOD and BAD changes with time.....our different cultures defines these terms for us, and our culture is subject to change.....in the old testament, the isreali ancient culture defined the two terms for them and from there they drafted their laws, and obeyed it,
right now, our present culture is redefining it and we can't stop the process cuz new matters and situations arises everyday,, of which our culture try to carry along, everyother thing is changing and u don't expect those definition not to change too.
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Dtruthspeaker: 10:36pm On Aug 05, 2020|
No it does not!
The most simple test of Good and Bad beyond definition is simply, if they do that which is bad to you, would you smile about it happily or would you frown andcomplain bitterly?
Our True Responses to either of them have never changed and shall never change.
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Kobojunkie: 10:36pm On Aug 05, 2020|
Elvis778:What man did God punish for not sleeping with his brother's wife?
Elvis778:I think you are making a mistake brushing all of civilization with the same brush.... At the point you state, Israel was already under the Old Covenant and so, the holding of slaves was under the law and this old Covenant applied to the descendants of Israel.
Under the same Covenant, when Samson slept with Harlots, he was wrong... No adjustments were made to the law to excuse his sins either. It was not the general way of life, as you assume, to sleep with harlots
Elvis778:During the life of Jesus Christ the New Covenant, the old Covenant was still law among the jews and not even Jesus Christ attempted to do away with that.
Elvis778:While society will definitely undergo many changes over time, do not in fact expect religions to do the same. For example, as a follower of Jesus Christ, I live according to the laws of the New Covenant. Society's definition of what is good and what is bad might change... but that is likely to have no direct impact on what is sin and what is not as far as I as a person am concerned.
You have to at least be able to separate moral reasonings of society from the individual beliefs of persons.
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Kobojunkie: 10:38pm On Aug 05, 2020|
kkins25:I doubt you were indeed referring to the Bible.
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|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Kobojunkie: 10:46pm On Aug 05, 2020|
Elvis778:Moral laws are definitely fluid, but when it comes to religion, you will find there are two different reasonings at play .
Culture has always redefined itself....it is built on ideas and moods of men which tend to be fluid. However, as concerns a belief in God, that is a whole nother story in and of itself. As that is dependent on the one who defined the belief and His desire to make those changes when He deems them fit.
For instance, 2000 years ago, through Jesus Christ, a New Covenant was established. The same contract define what is sin, and what is right for those who accept the contract. 2000 years later, I sit living my life according to those 2000 year old ideas of right and wrong. While cultural and moral laws has changed and will continue to all around me, I cling to what I believe and know to be True, the 2000 year-old agreement which I made with Jesus Christ stil.
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Elvis778(m): 7:40am On Aug 06, 2020|
Kobojunkie:Onan, Genesis 38:8-10.....he preferred to spill his seeds on the floor while having sexual relations with his sister in-law than getting her pregnant as instructed by his father....at a point, pork meat and some other animals were marked unclean.....but that changed in the new testament, today Christians eat just any meat....
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Elvis778(m): 7:47am On Aug 06, 2020|
Dtruthspeaker:Am not talking about the response to Good and bad, am talking about what we consider good and what we consider bad.....for example, in the old testament, and early in.the new testament, some certain animals were marked unclean and considered bad, you dare not make contact with these animals talkmore of eating them, they were bad omen...but today, these animals are a great deal of our diet and are considered good....also, impregnating a widowed sister in-law was seen as a necessity in other to continue the lineage especially if she has never put to bed....but today, it's a taboo, and considered bad.....bottom line is, what we consider good and bad has always been subject to change....
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Dtruthspeaker: 9:37am On Aug 06, 2020|
For man And by man, thing is good or bad because of Who Complains about it and is affected by it, subject to Flow and Direction the Spirit of God, which determines at that material point in time.
Hence, a thing may be Prohibited at one time and may be allowed at another.
But, there are many things which have been Prohibited since the beginning and they can never be Permissible eg Wickedness and evil things!
However, it is not the jurisdiction of any man to make any alteration or change or even determine that which is good or bad. No it is not, It is the Full Power of The Lord Most High, King of the World, To Determine these things!
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by Dtruthspeaker: 10:33am On Aug 06, 2020|
The True Laws that Regulate all human affairs is Natural Law or Morality or Moral Laws as you say.
This is one of the Lies Propagated by Wicked People in Relegating the True Natural Law Issued by God Himself, king of this world, to mere conducts and practices of a certain type of people (Righteouse People) thereby deceiving them, so that they could present and promote their false laws as an alternative.
|Re: Do We Really Want To Go Back To The Old Ways? by kkins25(m): 11:32am On Aug 06, 2020|
Kobojunkie:On what premise does thou conclude i wasn't referring to the bible?
After all, is it not written that true Religion is nothing but Love shown to thy neighbours?
Or do i read you wrongly, do you mean that the bible is not the only book that commands Love to be the language of us all?
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