Officialgarri:

But there's ministry of Labour for a reason and there exists Auditors for a reason.

They study every inflow and outflow of your company's finance over the year. So, under declaring their inflow is only something they can get away with only when they decide to pay bribe

Lolzzz understating income or profit is not something new. Auditors are aware of this and will even help you to prepare two FS. One for management, other for tax authorities.

Forget, that cannot work.

Best practice is for employers to fix pay,

Karleb:


This school I'm taking about, for S S S 3 alone, they have 150 students, these senior students pay at least N300k based on Jamb, WAEC and NECO charges.

The school's population is atleast 1,000 for the secondary alone.

The owner goes around, building hotels, building other schools and paying N49 at entry level. That's too poor.

You people should stop saying the "you'd see things differently when you become employer" line.

A lot of employer in Nigeria rip off their employee.

Do you know how much he invested to get the school to that level?

Gather 10 people together and pay them 49k monthly for a year in the name of starting a school, come back and give situation result.

Lol. I hope you know economy in this context means a country. Not that the concept of free market does not exist. No economy rely on it to achieve goals because market forces can not meet macroeconomic goals without intervention. In reality forces of demand and supply do not pan out like in theory; equilibrium do not always last like you think. This is simple economics. I'd advise you study macroeconomic deeply and pick up a text that delve into policies, that might help you understand better. I rest my case.

efficiencie:


Your macroeconomics is dead if it has no micro foundations. Any economist worth his salt should know this. Again I say to you that you are wrong to say government must CONSTANLTY intervene in the economy. It is so wrong that even in China, led by a communist party, they know it is wrong. The government only intervenes when it is needed and not CONSTANTLY. I even provided you with instances where government intervention is needed. You should study recent literature to confirm this.

Officialgarri:
This is no time to talk about the shortcomings or rather, incompetency of the Ministry of Labour.

I glanced through the recent version of Nigeria Labour law —Labour Act 2004, and I can agree it's a shallow draft that didn't know of its importance.

If I were to be bias, I would compare the Labour Act 2004 to the "Animal farm" laws that was tweaked to suit the farm leaders —Napoleon and the other pigs.

Without much ado, to avoid Under payment, I'm of the opinion that Employee's wages (instead being set by capitalist employers) — should be determined by the company's annual income and the Nigerian Labour body should follow up strictly on its compliance.
It is however left to the Employer's discretion to raise the wages higher than the set minimum wage.

If you left wages to the employer's discretion nobody would be able to earn a living wage

Even now employers would rather have you work for free than pay you any salary at all, especially in this part of the world where everyone views the other guy not as a human being made of flesh and blood but rather as a mere prop within their own reality.

Embell:
Lol. I hope you know economy in this context means a country. Not that the concept of free market does not exist. No economy rely on it to achieve goals because market forces can not meet macroeconomic goals without intervention. In reality forces of demand and supply do not pan out like in theory; equilibrium do not last like you think. This is simple economics. I'd advise you study macroeconomic deeply and pick up a text that delve into policies, that might help you understand better. I rest my case.

No dude. You should snap out of that Kenyesian thinking it's obsolete. No one reads macroeconomics nowadays the way you think they do. No policy analyst uses:
Y = C + I + G + X - M
as the sole basis for macroeconomic policy design. For example look at how C is determined. Gone are the days of Permanent income hypothesis, absolute income hypothesis and relative income hypothesis all these are obsolete and economists now model consumption using an inter temporal utility function and a dynamic budget constrain function both of which require micro assumptions! Here, look at this.
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www3.nd.edu/~esims1/consumption_notes.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwilgqu25ezxAhUR0uAKHREABlMQFjAWegQIGBAC&usg=AOvVaw0kM_LjWWapK5wPrdB3Z8Er). Saying the government must intervene constantly is patently wrong. I doubt anyone can defend such a proposition in theory or practice without running into serious design flaws. The government's job is to provide an enabling environment, a functioning criminal justice system, protect property rights, reduce government size, install communication/transportation infrastructure, build product quality assurance institutions and some of the other conditions (not all) stated in the Washington consensus. The government has no business meddling with the price mechanism unless in the case of market failures: common pool problem, free rider issues and the generation of externalities!

efficiencie:


...then instead of recruiting people employers will basically go capital intensive and deploy the use of automation to displace labor...when that happens you will be back to square one, capitalists get richer and employees remain unemployed in their sapa republic! The free market is best mechanism for price/wage determination unless you want to live and die as an employee. Any attempt to fix prices/wages (as obtainable in a command economy) will ultimately hurt the very same people you claim to protect!

I rather favour a salary system negotiated at employment and a yearly profit based commission.

Officialgarri:
This is no time to talk about the shortcomings or rather, incompetency of the Ministry of Labour.

I glanced through the recent version of Nigeria Labour law —Labour Act 2004, and I can agree it's a shallow draft that didn't know of its importance.

If I were to be bias, I would compare the Labour Act 2004 to the "Animal farm" laws that was tweaked to suit the farm leaders —Napoleon and the other pigs.

Without much ado, to avoid Under payment, I'm of the opinion that Employee's wages (instead being set by capitalist employers) — should be determined by the company's annual income and the Nigerian Labour body should follow up strictly on its compliance.
It is however left to the Employer's discretion to raise the wages higher than the set minimum wage.

Will you be willing to take a part of the end of year profit if it reads a negative value?

Chuks9000:
It's at the discretion of the employer.
But they should be mandated to have an established pay structure so as to remove manipulation.

I am migrating a small business from manual to automated HR and Payroll. Omo I have seen things! First of all to get them to share the spreadsheet they use was one hell of a task. Dem dey guard am like who dey guard central bank vault. I understand that it is a confidential document but there's nothing confidential that an ERP person hasn't seen.

Turned out that their salary structure get one kind leg. Some people get benefits not available to all employees. Pension deduction and all get as e be. No employee had ever gotten a payslip in all their time there

CodeTemplar:

I rather favour a salary system negotiated at employment and a yearly profit based commission.

At the point of negotiation is great but as a government policy prescription backed by law, terrible! One key does not open all doors.

CodeTemplar:


Will you be willing to take a part of the end of year profit if it reads a negative value?

Don't mind them...they can easily say this now because they have been SAPArified. Let serious money enter their hand and they open a business the same persons will go back on their earlier position.

Karleb:


This school I'm taking about, for S S S 3 alone, they have 150 students, these senior students pay at least N300k based on Jamb, WAEC and NECO charges.

The school's population is atleast 1,000 for the secondary alone.

The owner goes around, building hotels, building other schools and paying N49 at entry level. That's too poor.

You people should stop saying the "you'd see things differently when you become employer" line.

A lot of employer in Nigeria rip off their employee.

Strictly speaking, employees are not slaves. They can always walk away if they want to.

If an employee strongly feels he should earn more, he can reach out to other employers, bargain a better compensation package, and leave.

If he cannot, maybe because his services do not add as much value as he thinks, or because there are many others with similar skills willing to do the same job, at same or even lesser pay, then why should the employer pay more?

If an employer is forced to pay higher wages for services valued at far lower prices, he reserves the option to purchase same services from economies/countries where he can pay less. Or refuse to invest if the resultant profit margin is unacceptable.

This is why American firms moved to China to set up shop, and Americans suffered increase in unemployment. Such a policy thus ends up hurting those it is meant to protect.

On the other hand, it can lead to proliferation of immigrants, as undocumented immigrants might happily accept what citizens won't. The influx of Latin Americans into US is a point in study. Same has happened in Europe. In fact, Brexit happened because a lot of UK citizens wanted to end the situation where immigrants from EU states do the jobs they do for far less pay.
In all these, the question is - If the pay was that bad, why are people willing to take risks, cross the borders and take up the jobs?

In all, it's better to let the market manage the costs of labour. Government and regulating agencies can set up guidelines to curtail sharp practices and exploitation, but fixing prices arbitrarily will hurt the employees, rather tan the employer.

Officialgarri:
This is no time to talk about the shortcomings or rather, incompetency of the Ministry of Labour.

I glanced through the recent version of Nigeria Labour law —Labour Act 2004, and I can agree it's a shallow draft that didn't know of its importance.

If I were to be bias, I would compare the Labour Act 2004 to the "Animal farm" laws that was tweaked to suit the farm leaders —Napoleon and the other pigs.

Without much ado, to avoid Under payment, I'm of the opinion that Employee's wages (instead being set by capitalist employers) — should be determined by the company's annual income and the Nigerian Labour body should follow up strictly on its compliance.
It is however left to the Employer's discretion to raise the wages higher than the set minimum wage.

Una get laws in that country?
The only time they employ any law is when it is for oppressing people

igbodefender:
The government and legislature always have a role to play to prevent exploitation.

that is tyranny. So if the govt say you must pay 1 million for pure water your eye go clear

Officialgarri:

There's only a thin line between Slavery and Employee.

Your employees are the one building the company, generating income. Would it be fair to make 20 billion for your company and you are paid only 0.0001 percent? Obviously, the Employee treatment has been crossed into slavery.

There's a ministry that ought to cater for treatment of staff, but they seem to be looking elsewhere
A valid point here. But what about a system where every registered company is insured by the Government —state or federal government —depending on the size and nature of the business.
And then if the company runs at loss and can't keep up with a minimum wage, the Government would step in for the period to complete the payments.

I think this is an issue to be raised by the senate.

very wide line, an employee can leave, a slave cannot .
Where will the insurance money come from.
What if everybody claims to be down the way petroleum marketers always claim to be down. You lazy ppl just think you know better than nature

yomi007k:

The former description is for a capitalist society while later decribes a socialist economy. It will be difficult for government to fix prices unless they want to pay part of the production cost. The government will prefer to charge both employer and employee if possible without giving much in return. We run a "corrupt" capitalist system. That is why slavery in the nation is overboard.

capitalism cannot be corrupt. It is socialism that breeds corruption.

Officialgarri:

This is cowardice, I must say.

So we must wait on others to take a step before we imitate? . what's wrong in being a pioneer?

so you want to move from fuel subsidy to salary subsidy. What could go wrong? Why don't you suffer to gather capital and start a business then start paying your workers according to profit you make. Hope the employees will also understand to take good less or zero when the company is making a loss. Think before you talk

OmovuduTheBeast:
Onome Agbamu, you will not die well. God will surely punish that your big coconut head

Na so you carry people papa take dey play,
Dey pay full grown adult 17k every month and you dey fly your entire family go Europe any time you like.

Thank God say life is better today.
If men were God

how much should he pay them.

valentineuwakwe:
Let Nigerian govt and employees pay wages and salaries like in western world, every 2 weeks or 21days!

so that what will happen. 16 K. Per month is same as 4K. Per week. In fact maybe less cop they have to pay 4 accountants to make payroll

laplace12:

Do you know how much he invested to get the school to that level?

Gather 10 people together and pay them 49k monthly for a year in the name of starting a school, come back and give situation result.

Look at what you are saying?

If the work is so easy, why not do it yourself?

This school I'm talking about is notorious for using its worker.


I'm very sure you voted Buhari the second time with this line of reasoning.

Karleb:


This school I'm taking about, for S S S 3 alone, they have 150 students, these senior students pay at least N300k based on Jamb, WAEC and NECO charges.

The school's population is atleast 1,000 for the secondary alone.

The owner goes around, building hotels, building other schools and paying N49 at entry level. That's too poor.

You people should stop saying the "you'd see things differently when you become employer" line.

A lot of employer in Nigeria rip off their employee.

A private school that charge as high as 150k, with 1000 students ? Unless it is a school own by a Religious institution, it is just an exaggerated figure. Now imagine how many staffs will be needed to cater for 1000 students even if it is true. That school will have nothing less than 60 Academic and non-staffs. Entry level is 49k according to you which means we have others earning above that.
And no one care if the school fees arent paid. It is the owner's cup of tea. Like i said initially, we are good at calculating what people earn without calculating the number of expenses that must be sorted for the existence of the business.
I know some employers are cruel cos i have worked for people before starting my business 7 yrs ago but we still have good employers who are doing their best for their employees but arent appreciated.
The truth of the matter is that, if we keep up arguing we wont stop talking till tomorrow.

Beedude:

A private school that charge as high as 150k, with 1000 students ? Unless it is a school own by a Religious institution, it is just an exaggerated figure. Now imagine how many staffs will be needed to cater for 1000 students even if it is true. That school will have nothing less than 60 Academic and non-staffs. Entry level is 49k according to you which means we have others earning above that.
And no one care if the school fees arent paid. It is the owner's cup of tea. Like i said initially, we are good at calculating what people earn without calculating the number of expenses that must be sorted for the existence of the business.
I know some employers are cruel cos i have worked for people before starting my business 7 yrs ago but we still have good employers who are doing their best for their employees but arent appreciated.
The truth of the matter is that, if we keep up arguing we wont stop talking till tomorrow.

Baba! I know what I'm saying.

I've known this school since I was born. In fact, I even understated the values.

If registered S S S 3 students could be upto 150, now imagine how many the S S S 2 would be. At least double. How about the lower classes?

The school is pure boarding. Now it has day. Same school, different buildings. One for day, the other for boarding. Which is separate from the primary school.

Let's not decieve ourselves, only few people get to earn so much. Even if he has 100 staffs, which would comprises of a lot of non academic staff, only few would be earning well over hundred. Let's say 20 percent.

The S S S3 students alone has paid the salary for more than 2 terms.

Talking of expenses, the S S S 2 school fees for a year would clear off the yearly expenses.

I hate to calculate another person's money but nothing stop that school from paying N100k at entry level, it doesn't even affect them in any way.

There is another school here that prints millions monthly but still pay N30k as salary.

Of course we always agree to disagree but it's the reason why Nigeria is still very poor today. There is money but the money is within a small percentage of the population's reach. Majority are poor even though they work very hard.

At the initial stage of a company, I don't expect the pay to be so great but when you are now mature and in deep annual profit, nothing, absolutely nothing stops you from paying your employees well enough.


Some companies started with 30k, ten years later, they are still paying 30k.

Karleb:




Baba! I know what I'm saying.

I've known this school since I was born. In fact, I even understated the values.

If registered S S S 3 students could be upto 150, now imagine how many the S S S 2 would be. At least double. How about the lower classes?

The school is pure boarding. Now it has day. Same school, different buildings. One for day, the other for boarding. Which is separate from the primary school.

Let's not decieve ourselves, only few people get to earn so much. Even if he has 100 staffs, which would comprises of a lot of non academic staff, only few would be earning well over hundred. Let's say 20 percent.

The S S S3 students alone has paid the salary for more than 2 terms.

Talking of expenses, the S S S 2 school fees for a year would clear off the yearly expenses.

I hate to calculate another person's money but nothing stop that school from paying N100k at entry level, it doesn't even affect them in any way.

There is another school here that prints millions monthly but still pay N30k as salary.

Of course we always agree to disagree but it's the reason why Nigeria is still very poor today. There is money but the money is within a small percentage of the population's reach. Majority are poor even though they work very hard.

At the initial stage of a company, I don't expect the pay to be so great but when you are now mature and in deep annual profit, nothing, absolutely nothing stops you from paying your employees well enough.


Some companies started with 30k, ten years later, they are still paying 30k.

Oga, this time you use to calculate the man profit, you for use am think of how to start a school.

If you think school business is easy and profitable then go into it.

Even among employees some earn way higher than others based on how difficult, technical and risky the job is.

Entrepreneurs earn higher because they do the most difficult, technical and risky jobs.

I have worked, now I run a business. I understand all these.

Officialgarri:
This is no time to talk about the shortcomings or rather, incompetency of the Ministry of Labour.

I glanced through the recent version of Nigeria Labour law —Labour Act 2004, and I can agree it's a shallow draft that didn't know of its importance.

If I were to be bias, I would compare the Labour Act 2004 to the "Animal farm" laws that was tweaked to suit the farm leaders —Napoleon and the other pigs.

Without much ado, to avoid Under payment, I'm of the opinion that Employee's wages (instead being set by capitalist employers) — should be determined by the company's annual income and the Nigerian Labour body should follow up strictly on its compliance.
It is however left to the Employer's discretion to raise the wages higher than the set minimum wage.

He that pays the piper.....

laplace12:

Oga, this time you use to calculate the man profit, you for use am think of how to start a school.

If you think school business is easy and profitable then go into it.

Even among employees some earn way higher than others based on how difficult, technical and risky the job is.

Entrepreneurs earn higher because they do the most difficult, technical and risky jobs.

I have worked, now I run a business. I understand all these.

You people should stop all these emotional blackmail and pay your staff well.

Officialgarri:

If I were to be bias, I would compare the Labour Act 2004 to the "Animal farm" laws that was tweaked to suit the farm leaders —Napoleon and the other pigs.

Without much ado, to avoid Under payment, I'm of the opinion that Employee's wages (instead being set by capitalist employers) — should be determined by the company's annual income and the Nigerian Labour body should follow up strictly on its compliance.
It is however left to the Employer's discretion to raise the wages higher than the set minimum wage.

You cannot form an opinion of somebody's else company. It is not in your prerogative. Establish your own company and do whatever you please, but climbing on the fence to see what your neighbors are having for dinner is worrisome.

Go and read the history of communist states before you start referring to communism. And if Nigeria doesn't work for you, relocate to Venezuela or Cuba or North Korea... you may be better off