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Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? - Islam for Muslims (2) - Nairaland

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Has Any Muslim Had A Journey From Islam To Atheism And Back To Islam? / I think i am losing my faith to Atheism, i need guidance urgently. / Is Islam Inherently Peace Or Violent? (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 3:01pm On Jun 28
JeromeBlack:


I am not a Muslim and so I cannot be a reformer in Islam. It is up to muslims to organize and change their religion?

I dont agree with what Muslim people practice but I don't think its Islam that needs reforming I think it's the people.

The reality is most muslims actually dont believe in apostasy. They'd actually agree with my stance. Imagine if all over 1b muslims started executing everyone. We'd be in trouble.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 3:06pm On Jun 28
JeromeBlack:


Have you ever worked in Nigeria before?

You sound like a rich babe that travels around Europe.


I was like that too not so long ago. When you work in Nigeria under hard conditions with mental people, your perspective will change.

I'm only a baby girl. I've not started working yet.

Plz I wish oo. Amen! I claim it by the Grace of God.

That's just Nigeria and mental people though. As a Nigerian, do you feel the need to reform Nigeria?
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by tartar9(m): 3:06pm On Jun 28
JeromeBlack:


Lol.

I am not afraid of my in-laws murdering my wife if I marry a Christian or jew. Apostasy is a hell of a doctrine.
In judaism,apostacy is punishable by death! apostacy that was practiced by xtian countries undecided
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 3:09pm On Jun 28
JeromeBlack:



I broke a Muslim girl's heart actually. I stopped drinking alcohol but I couldn't just deal with her family. Her foolish brothers were pained that I was not a Muslim. They tried to intimidate me but I gave it to them. grin grin Good times


Another problem with Islam. Muslim women aren't allowed to marry outside the religion.

You too why are you following muslim girls ehn. Can you imagine. Lol face front, leave our sisters alone tongue

Ah. Are muslim women complaining ? How e take concern you? I dont see why that bothers non muslims so much. Mind ya business.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by JeromeBlack: 3:09pm On Jun 28
tartar9:

In judaism,apostacy is punishable by death! apostacy that was practiced by xtian countries undecided

False comparison.

No Christian country or Jewish country practices such today. Most western countries abolished apostasy and blasphemy laws almost a hundred years ago
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by tartar9(m): 3:15pm On Jun 28
JeromeBlack:


False comparison.

No Christian country or Jewish country practices such today. Most western countries abolished apostasy and blasphemy laws almost a hundred years ago
Did I say they are still practiced
That they no longer practice it still doesnt changes the fact that it exists in their religions.The same way Israel and other xtian countries recognize gay marrriages and are actively promoting it.
We Muslims shall remain true to our faith.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by JeromeBlack: 3:24pm On Jun 28
tartar9:

Did I say they are still practiced
That they no longer practice it still doesnt changes the fact that it exists in their religions.The same way Israel and other xtian countries recognize gay marrriages and are actively promoting it.
We Muslims shall remain true to our faith.


Feel free to anchor yourself in ancient Arabic caveman ideas. You will remain behind civilisation.

You want to defend blasphemy and apostasy laws? Nonsense
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by JeromeBlack: 3:26pm On Jun 28
Saucyxo:


You too why are you following muslim girls ehn. Can you imagine. Lol face front, leave our sisters alone tongue

Ah. Are muslim women complaining ? How e take concern you? I dont see why that bothers non muslims so much. Mind ya business.


Love is blind.

What if you meet a rich, smart and handsome guy, only to find out that he is a non Muslim?
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 3:28pm On Jun 28
JeromeBlack:



Love is blind.

What if you meet a rich, smart and handsome guy, only to find out that he is a non Muslim?

He and I would be great friends.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by JeromeBlack: 3:29pm On Jun 28
Saucyxo:


I dont agree with what Muslim people practice but I don't think its Islam that needs reforming I think it's the people.

The reality is most muslims actually dont believe in apostasy. They'd actually agree with my stance. Imagine if all over 1b muslims started executing everyone. We'd be in trouble.

Islam needs reforming just like christianity got reformed.

Mainstream Christians select and choose the parts of the bible they like. The accept that the bible is not everything.

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Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by JeromeBlack: 3:30pm On Jun 28
Saucyxo:


But is that because of Islam or because of Nigerias society. Or the society of people who have lived a certain way and experience something different ?

Jaysus that's everywhere babes lol. I dont smoke but my friends are CONSTANTLYYY trying to get me to smoke something. I'm muslim and I'm constantly getting invited to church. My mums a nurse and shes constantly trying to get me to study nursing. I think that's just people trying to hey you to live their way of life which is even more pronounced in Nigerian society.

I dont agree with this that's ridiculous. Is it against the law in northern Nigeria? Why would you then go against the law ? In Ireland, because of public health, you cant buy or sell alcohol after 10pm and on certain days. If you're caught you'd be arrested and fined. If I decided that, I dont drink much so I didnt contribute to the public health issue so I'm going to buy alcohol at 11pm. I'm still going to get arrested. It's their law.

Nigerians are homophobic lol. Like that's not a surprise at all. Even if there was no religion in nigeria they'd still be homophobic.

I did know that. They dont want you to insult their religion. Dont do it if you stay there.

Noooooooooo I do not agree. From my experience anyways. They arent. I've met arrogant muslims and arrogant athiests. The athiests I've met that are arrogant, it's another level.

Lol here we go. I've actually read studies like that too. And with all the logic athiests love working with, they really dont use much in their day to day life. Like you just said athiests are more versed in religion than religious people. Like Duh. Obviously. Most people that are religious are born into their religion. They see it as their way or life and they just go with it. Thats just normal. Most athiests however reach a point where they question some parts of their religion and eventually go and study and learn in order to educate themselves. Eventually they reach a point where they completely disagree or it doesn't make sense to them and they leave religion. Most of them go through different religions and they all have faults or dont make sense with reality. Obviously youd have to learn about religion before you reach this conclusion. And most religious people don't do that. It's just a way of life for them. I've spoken to many athiests and even though I dabbled in agnosticism and strong irreligious beliefs for a little bit no athiest was EVER able to use any sort of logic to dismantle my belief in God.

I do agree that religious people need to educate themselves more about their faith and their belief in God however. That is the "advantage" atheists use to dismantle small minded people.

Hey! I'm an average Nigerian and I'm not a slowpoke. Speak for yourself tongue
Sigh. I also read that study that athiests are more intelligent than religious people. Please be open minded to read and expand more on that. Its not true. I don't want to write a whole epistle about it.


You' d lose your religion if you ever met me.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by JeromeBlack: 3:31pm On Jun 28
Saucyxo:


He and I would be great friends.

Until you get belle. grin grin

That's when your eye will clear
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 3:31pm On Jun 28
JeromeBlack:


Islam needs reforming just like christianity got reformed.

Mainstream Christians select and choose the parts of the bible they like. The accept that the bible is not everything.

Christianity reformed? Lol I think it's just not Christianity anymore. It's just a different way of life that believes the same principle that Jesus is God.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by JeromeBlack: 3:32pm On Jun 28
Saucyxo:


Christianity reformed? Lol I think it's just not Christianity anymore. It's just a different way of life that believes the same principle that Jesus is God.

Welcome to modern christianity

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Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 3:34pm On Jun 28
JeromeBlack:


Until you get belle. grin grin

That's when your eye will clear

Lol. I got adequate sex education, handsomeness and intelligence wont make me off pant tongue. Much to Emp.iree's despair cry
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 3:34pm On Jun 28
JeromeBlack:


Welcome to modern christianity

Or just... a different way of life. smiley. It needs to look like a duck and quack like a duck to be a duck.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 3:36pm On Jun 28
JeromeBlack:



You' d lose your religion if you ever met me.

In your dreams. Been there. Done that. It's now a throwback. I've never lost belief in God though. It seems pretty logical to me that theres a higher being out there. Aliens, FSM, whatever you want to call it.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by JeromeBlack: 4:06pm On Jun 28
Saucyxo:


Lol. I got adequate sex education, handsomeness and intelligence wont make me off pant tongue. Much to Emp.iree's despair cry

Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by budaatum: 4:13pm On Jun 28
"I'm trying to describe my point to you in the most eloquent manner I can but its hard so I'll say it the best way I know how." Me too. So lets try hard to understand what we are both imperfectly saying.

Saucyxo:

I dont agree. I think theres a difference between belief and practice of religion. In the context of the OP then practice is what would cause someone to be intolerant to others religion. I guess I meant most Christians in the UK are non practicing. Non practicing in the way that it doesnt affect their day to day at all. In the slightest. It wasnt only scientific revolution that suppressed religion in Europe. It had more to do with discrimination from the Church.
There is "a difference between belief and practice of religion", since one can believe a thing and practise the doctrine therein or not, practise being what I accuse UK of. UK takes care of it's citizens (free healthcare, money to feed) according to the doctrine that teaches that one should love one another. UK also loves it's neighbours as is seen by the amount it spends on foreign aid. Both these practises are an advanced form of what is taught in the Gospels - love one another and your neighbours - so I would say instead of UK 'believing' what they should practise, they 'know' what to practise and practise it specifically in their day to day life.

And it was indeed the scientific revolution (a revolution that brought in the use of the senses and not what was religiously handed down in ancient texts by people who had no glasses), that has suppressed the take up of religion. People cannot go on believing for long that which opposes their senses. Eventually they must concede to what their senses perceive. And there is no doubt that we see a lot better than the ancients did.

Saucyxo:

I don't agree. Lol sorry. I think religion is a way of life. A doctrine that dictates ones belief and purpose in life.
"Dictate", at it's early stage (up to 16th century in Europe, and after Mohammed in the Arab world), but you'd know how humans react to 'dictators'. God dictated to Adam and Eve but they went ahead and revolted.

In an advanced age, as in, long after the old ways of religion, which is the dictating of beliefs, have died off and the age of reason kicks in, people don't accept being dictated to because they now understand they have senses of their own and the right to dictate is in themselves if they use their senses.

Saucyxo:

Hmm. I'm trying to describe my point to you in the most eloquent manner I can but its hard so I'll say it the best way I know how. Forgive me if it sounds a little simplistic. I agree theres an overlap between overly religious countries and lack of education and poverty. But I dont think correlation indicates causation in this context. Most of europe were still very under practicing religious doctrines when they did the not so religious things they needed to do in order to advance. I dont see any religious doctrines that would really pull a nation backwards if used correctly.
Religion was simply how education was done in the past with its students being told to believe. Education today has evolved into teaching the abilities to understand and reason as opposed to 'believe', so I'd call them points on the same scale with one evolving into the other, and not "correlation" or "causation". The fact does remain that societies that advocate the individual use of the senses prospers more than one which just uncritically accepts that which they are told by a few ancient prophets.

Do note that it is my view that Buddha, Mohammed and Jesus, along with numerous others through the ages are teachers that advocated the use of the senses. It is we who contraditorily argue that we must believe.

Saucyxo:

I dont understand what you mean by "It is the reason that church dwindles and schools proliferate both in number and in the quality of the education that they deliver." Did the dwindling of churches have anything to do with the proliferation of schools ? The dwindling of churches happened because people stopped going to churches and didn't agree with the practices of the church. The proliferation of schools, which still teach religion in a positive manner, happened because people wanted to be educated. I don't see what one has to do with the other.
The dwindling of Church happened because people saw and adopted a superior alternative which is education and so they stopped going to Church and went to school instead. In UK, Church saw this and evolved into schools but still taught religion (belief) until the scientific era took over and the curriculum changed accordingly. UK still has Church (and other religion) schools but you can't be teaching the curriculum according to God without Ofsted sanctioning you.

Nigeria is tending towards the same by eventually understanding that church has always been a driver to increase knowledge and understanding so more churches build schools. They still teach God done it in six days, but eyes are being opened to see that myth.

Saucyxo:
Lol. That's a bit rude. Lol are you saying religious people are in pits and athiests are on hills grin grin. Do you mind giving me an example of what words that we religious people have been stuck on ? I'm just curious.
Religion does not just get stuck on words, but also on phrases. And it gets stuck through its beliefs which by their nature imply knowing already when the opposite is exactly the case.

Religion (the ancient way of educating) gives the false confidence of knowledge. Education (the modern form of religion, as advocated by the light shiners), puts a foundation underneath those beliefs where there is one, and weeds out that which is not knowledge.

The evidence suggests that both the religious and the atheists are in pits with neither having a comprehension of things. I would claim the pit the atheist is in is deeper only because the atheist knows there is a pit but not that they themselves are in it, while the religious think they are on the hill when they are not. But the depth of the pit matters not in the whole scheme of things since we all deceive ourselves, each thinking the little we know is the whole truth when the truth is neither even sees. It takes an acceptance of ones limitation and ignorance to accept that one knows so little, but thread after thread you'd see the ego of ignorance claiming knowledge that it lacks.

I'll borrow from the Bible to illustrate.

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

A lot of people believe the above to be true, but in which way is it true? Would a better understanding not make it truer? In UK, it is known that if they learn about the natural world (the earth, fish, sea etc), and understand how to manipulate it to their advantage (rule and subdue it), they will have more resources to live longer and grow (be blessed), so instead of worshipping God with tithes and prayers, they worship by seeking and learning to understand the knowledge of the entire universe and all that is therein (Kingdom of God ), wealth that they store where moths can't get at it and are blessed because of their seeking.

Now, look at my country Nigeria which many would claim 'worships' God and tell me if we are blessed.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 4:13pm On Jun 28
[quote author=JeromeBlack post=79752010][/quote]

Uncle Empiree, I see you eyeing the thread. Abeg biko I was only playing withu.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 4:15pm On Jun 28
Budaatum. Do you live or have you lived in the UK ?
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Empiree: 4:17pm On Jun 28
JeromeBlack:


I am an atheist
hypocrite! Why then you worry about Muslim women not marrying outside their faith?.

Listen, I cornered you in my first post because I knew where you were driving at. I was ahead of you. If Jews in Israel are either not practing or are essentially atheists, we can infer that they are Judeo/Christian/atheists intolerant terrorists occupiers of Palestinians and killing them. Therefore atheists are intolerant. We don't need you to tell us what's tolerateted and what is not.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Empiree: 4:19pm On Jun 28
Saucyxo:


Uncle Empi.ree, I see you eyeing the thread. Abeg biko I was only playing withu.
no worries, lady. cheesy
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by budaatum: 4:22pm On Jun 28
Saucyxo:
Budaatum. Do you live or have you lived in the UK ?
You asking for my credentials? Born and lived in UK ⅔ of my life.

You?
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by budaatum: 4:28pm On Jun 28
JeromeBlack:


False comparison.

No Christian country or Jewish country practices such today. Most western countries abolished apostasy and blasphemy laws almost a hundred years ago
Most Muslims don't practise it neither!
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by budaatum: 4:29pm On Jun 28
Saucyxo:


Lol. I got adequate sex education, handsomeness and intelligence wont make me off pant tongue. Much to Emp.iree's despair cry
See! Education is glue to your pant.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 4:52pm On Jun 28
budaatum:
"I'm trying to describe my point to you in the most eloquent manner I can but its hard so I'll say it the best way I know how." Me too. So lets try hard to understand what we are both imperfectly saying.


There is "a difference between belief and practice of religion", since one can believe a thing and practise the doctrine therein or not, practise being what I accuse UK of. UK takes care of it's citizens (free healthcare, money to feed) according to the doctrine that teaches that one should love one another. UK also loves it's neighbours as is seen by the amount it spends on foreign aid. Both these practises are an advanced form of what is taught in the Gospels - love one another and your neighbours - so I would say instead of UK 'believing' what they should practise, they 'know' what to practise and practise it specifically in their day to day life.

And it was indeed the scientific revolution (a revolution that brought in the use of the senses and not what was religiously handed down in ancient texts by people who had no glasses), that has suppressed the take up of religion. People cannot go on believing for long that which opposes their senses. Eventually they must concede to what their senses perceive. And there is no doubt that we see a lot better than the ancients did.


"Dictate", at it's early stage (up to 16th century in Europe, and after Mohammed in the Arab world), but you'd know how humans react to 'dictators'. God dictated to Adam and Eve but they went ahead and revolted.

In an advanced age, as in, long after the old ways of religion, which is the dictating of beliefs, have died off and the age of reason kicks in, people don't accept being dictated to because they now understand they have senses of their own and the right to dictate is in themselves if they use their senses.


Religion was simply how education was done in the past with its students being told to believe. Education today has evolved into teaching the abilities to understand and reason as opposed to 'believe', so I'd call them points on the same scale with one evolving into the other, and not "correlation" or "causation". The fact does remain that societies that advocate the individual use of the senses prospers more than one which just uncritically accepts that which they are told by a few ancient prophets.

Do note that it is my view that Buddha, Mohammed and Jesus, along with numerous others through the ages are teachers that advocated the use of the senses. It is we who contraditorily argue that we must believe.


The dwindling of Church happened because people saw and adopted a superior alternative which is education and so they stopped going to Church and went to school instead. In UK, Church saw this and evolved into schools but still taught religion (belief) until the scientific era took over and the curriculum changed accordingly. UK still has Church (and other religion) schools but you can't be teaching the curriculum according to God without Ofsted sanctioning you.

Nigeria is tending towards the same by eventually understanding that church has always been a driver to increase knowledge and understanding so more churches build schools. They still teach God done it in six days, but eyes are being opened to see that myth.


Religion does not just get stuck on words, but also on phrases. And it gets stuck through its beliefs which by their nature imply knowing already when the opposite is exactly the case.

Religion (the ancient way of educating) gives the false confidence of knowledge. Education (the modern form of religion, as advocated by the light shiners), puts a foundation underneath those beliefs where there is one, and weeds out that which is not knowledge.

The evidence suggests that both the religious and the atheists are in pits with neither having a comprehension of things. I would claim the pit the atheist is in is deeper only because the atheist knows there is a pit but not that they themselves are in it, while the religious think they are on the hill when they are not. But the depth of the pit matters not in the whole scheme of things since we all deceive ourselves, each thinking the little we know is the whole truth when the truth is neither even sees. It takes an acceptance of ones limitation and ignorance to accept that one knows so little, but thread after thread you'd see the ego of ignorance claiming knowledge that it lacks.

I'll borrow from the Bible to illustrate.

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

A lot of people believe the above to be true, but in which way is it true? Would a better understanding not make it truer? In UK, it is known that if they learn about the natural world (the earth, fish, sea etc), and understand how to manipulate it to their advantage (rule and subdue it), they will have more resources to live longer and grow (be blessed), so instead of worshipping God with tithes and prayers, they worship by seeking and learning to understand the knowledge of the entire universe and all that is therein (Kingdom of God ), wealth that they store where moths can't get at it and are blessed because of their seeking.

Now, look at my country Nigeria which many would claim 'worships' God and tell me if we are blessed.

Ehn. Ehn. I think that's the belief that we've been forced to believe. Health care isn't free anyways. Everyone pays for healthcare with taxes lol. I hope that remains after brexit sha. I dont think it's because they care about eachother at all. I think it's so they can charge ridiculously high taxes and no one will complain. Really The UK loves its neighbours ? Maybe I'm being biased. The UK is one of the countries I detest the most in this entire world. The UK doesnt love it's own people never mind its neighbours. Brexit is LITERALLY the UK saying how much it hates its neighbours. The biggest most successful campaign of brexit was closing its doors and helping people.
Really ? Lol the UK is the WORST example you could have chosen to show any sort of religious or moral integrity. Anyways, none of this has anything to do with religion. I honestly dont see the religious basis of anything the UK as well as most EU countries do.

That's not true. The reformation had everything to do with money and how the catholic church treated it's people. It had very very little to do with science. The fall of Catholicism happened during the reformation. The rennasiance was the first period of alot of science and art in Europe. Catholics were still very highly in power. Then came the reformation which was the demise of Catholicism. Then came the age of englightenment. The age of englightenment is where we see alot of scientific discoveries. The reformation was caused my the mistreatment of the catholic church and its members.

Lol. Let's not use dictate then. Guides ? smiley.

Really ? Regardless of the senses of my own, we still learn every day. I dont think theres any compulsion in religion but everyone follows a doctrine. No one lives freely on their own to the will of their own senses. That would make for a very messy situation no ?

I actually dont agree with that statement at all. In today's society, I honestly don't see how one uses their own individual senses in order to prosper. I just think newer ways of life have been evolved. We all live by a doctrine, maybe cultural or religious or even societal doctrines. They're never individual rulings though.
Is your issue with religion that its foundations are old ?

Wouldn't that just be a different way to look at the same thing ? I dont believe, religion itself that has forced people to remain in a misunderstood state. I think some people just choose to take words literally and not advance. I think people should be educated in all forms of education available so they can better interpret their religion in the way that applies to their lives. There are some things in religion that are very very clear and not open to interpretation. In this context, I dont see how practicing those rules has contributed to the lack of progression in religious countries.

I think alot of poverty filled countries just see religion as an escape. I dont believe that the increase of education will decrease faith and belief in God if one truly understands their faith. In Nigeria, there are many factors at play as to why there are more churches than there are schools. Lack of education, greediness and extreme poverty. Religion has been almost a drug that provides a sense of hope.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 4:54pm On Jun 28
budaatum:

You asking for my credentials? Born and lived in UK ⅔ of my life.

You?

.

1 Like

Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 4:56pm On Jun 28
budaatum:

See! Education is glue to your pant.

Are they mutually exclusive though. You can do both.

Religion has also glued it oo. If it wasn't for religion grin tongue grin grin
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by budaatum: 5:03pm On Jun 28
Saucyxo:

Maybe I'm being biased. The UK is one of the countries I detest the most in this entire world. The UK doesnt love it's own people never mind its neighbours.
You are more than biased, you actually detest, and I can only say that detestation is a form of blindness that is similar to believing as both stop one from seeing and learning, for which lots of objective use of the senses is required, and which, if you understood what I've written so far, is what I'm advocating, and not the blindness that some religious people tend to adopt.

Why is UK one of the countries you detest the most in this entire world? Have you ever been or lived there? For how long? And did you learn how they got to where they are today, their history so to speak?
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by budaatum: 5:06pm On Jun 28
Saucyxo:


Are they mutually exclusive though. You can do both.

Religion has also glued it oo. If it wasn't for religion grin tongue grin grin
You've completely missed where I said "religion is early education". When you have children, I bet they are more likely to learn to keep their pants on in honour of God, than be scared to keep them on by the fear of God.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by budaatum: 5:07pm On Jun 28
Saucyxo:


I've lived in the EU all my life. Including the UK.
How old are you? Ballpark would do.

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