jhgfxdxz

This is the aspect of religion that always makes the so-called believers look like candidates for an emergency lobotomy!!!

So many little children died of starvation in Africa in the 80s, I guess it was all part of their "god's divine" plan!!!

All the little children that were stillborn in their mother's womb? Was that also part of his plan? And they still worship him/her/it?

Niflheim:
This is the aspect of religion that always makes the so-called believers look like candidates for an emergency lobotomy!!!

So many little children died of starvation in Africa in the 80s, I guess it was all part of their "god's divine" plan!!!

All the little children that were stillborn in their mother's womb? Was that also part of his plan? And they still worship him/her/it?

Yes.

We still worship Him.

A God that can annihilate is a God we must never hate!!

Be warned!!!

Religion, especially Christianity teaches us to avoid questioning things. The more you reason about some things in this life, the more you realize maybe you've been lied to for so long. But they'll always tell us his ways are not our ways and that we can't question him.

An omni God is a result of human influence. A perfect God is a manmade idea because human consciousness seeks an objective paradigm of perfection.Perfection doesn't exist and as such we have enslaved ourselves with standards and prerequisites for attaining perfection that leaves us depressed and unfulfilled.I personally view God as something similar to the fictional character Rick(For some weird reason).A flawed being that's pretty much relatable.Drop the idea of a perfect God that demands perfection from it's creation and you'd find no difficulty in entertaining the idea of God.

Swissh:
Assuming God is omnipotent and omniscient that also created everything, he is ultimately responsible for everything that is happening in the world. He is responsible because he knew beforehand everything that will happen. Even the terrible things. He allowed everything in this universe to happen.
Imagine a being with infinite power that also has knowledge of everything that ever was and ever will be. That's Gods most common definition. He is aware of everything bad in this world and even created it. There are good things in the world, but that doesn't take away from the fact that God also allows his creations to suffer.
So, try to inform me on why God is NOT responsible for everything that is suffering, and everything that has suffered in the world he created. And why you choose to believe such a God exists?

God is not responsible.

God gave man the earth to rule. As far as God is concerned, the earth is under the authority of man.

If man needs assistance, God is always available. God can't do anything on earth without man's invitation. The best He can do is to warn man of impending danger but He can't stop it.

Swissh:
Assuming God is omnipotent and omniscient that also created everything,

Right

he is ultimately responsible for everything that is happening in the world.

Not quite. He is not responsible for sin.

He is responsible because he knew beforehand everything that will happen.

Can you explain how having a knowledge of the future makes God responsible for what beings with the ability and freedom to choose to do what they truly want to do, will do in the future?

Even the terrible things.

No. Misuse of the the ability to choose between right and wrong which God gave to created beings is the reason why there are terrible things in existence. Can you tell me example of "terrible" things though?

He allowed everything in this universe to happen.

This is more like it. He "allowed". Now what is the only other option to "allowing"? It is to create beings without the ability to choose to do what they truly want i.e. to create essentially robots which do only the things He wants them to do, with no power and freedom to do otherwise. It is not to create beings with the ability and freedom to makes choices that they truly want, and then interfere with their ability and freedom to do so.

Imagine a being with infinite power that also has knowledge of everything that ever was and ever will be. That's Gods most common definition.

True.

He is aware of everything bad in this world and even created it.

How? When God created the world, nothing was bad in the world. Absolutely nothing. If you're talking about God having knowing that things would still go wrong in the future, well, the only other option was to not create beings with freewill.

There are good things in the world,

A lot, refreshingly.

but that doesn't take away from the fact that God also allows his creations to suffer.

Yeah. He too suffers from what His Creation does. Jesus had to die to provide salvation for rebellious man (such love!) But He will not allow sin and suffering to continue forever, nor has He allowed it to continue for a while without a reason - the full development, before the spectatorship of the whole universe, of the character of sin and rebellion with all their inseparable attendant effects (unhappiness, injustice and suffering) will serve as an eternal safeguard to the peace and bliss which will exist when God finally annihilates sin and sinners, and only holy beings inhabit the worlds that He will make anew.

So, try to inform me on why God is NOT responsible for everything that is suffering, and everything that has suffered in the world he created.

Simply, freewill. The ability to choose voluntarily to do what you truly want to do. However, choices and actions have consequences. Choosing to disobey God has, as consequences, suffering and death. That is in fact what is happening in the world today.

And why you choose to believe such a God exists?

Because the Bible says so.

DoctorAlien:

Right
Not quite. He is not responsible for sin.

Can you explain how having a knowledge of the future makes God responsible for what beings with the ability and freedom to choose to do what they truly want to do, will do in the future?

No. Misuse of the the ability to choose between right and wrong which God gave to created beings is the reason why there are terrible things in existence. Can you tell me example of "terrible" things though?

This is more like it. He "allowed". Now what is the only other option to "allowing"? It is to create beings without the ability to choose to do what they truly want i.e. to create essentially robots which do only the things He wants them to do, with no power and freedom to do otherwise. It is not to create beings with the ability and freedom to makes choices that they truly want, and then interfere with their ability and freedom to do so.

True.

How? When God created the world, nothing was bad in the world. Absolutely nothing. If you're talking about God having knowing that things would still go wrong in the future, well, the only other option was to not create beings with freewill.

A lot, refreshingly.

Yeah. He too suffers from what His Creation does. Jesus had to die to provide salvation for rebellious man (such love!) But He will not allow sin and suffering to continue forever, nor has He allowed it to continue for a while without a reason - the full development, before the spectatorship of the whole universe, of the character of sin and rebellion with all their inseparable attendant effects (suffering and death) will serve as an eternal safeguard to the peace and bliss which will exist when God finally annihilates sin and sinners, and only holy beings inhabit the worlds that He will make anew.

Simply, freewill. The ability to choose voluntarily to do what you truly want to do. However, choices and actions have consequences. Choosing to disobey God has, as consequences, suffering and death. That is in fact what is happening in the world today.

Because the Bible says so.

The classic response has too many holes.
God knows what you will do, what you think, why you think what you think. Everything negative that you think can be attributed to either genetics or environmental disposition. There are no such things as thoughts created entirely from individuality, because every possible 'cause' was made by God himself.
To make the concept simpler to follow, it's similar to a man holding a hostage and forcing the hostage to make a choice of whether or not to help the criminal. Yes he has 'free choice' but 'free choice' and 'free will' are entirely different. There is no free will when it comes to God because he laid out the terms for you. Help him out, worship him or face spiritual death.

Neymar1095:

The classic response has too many holes.
God knows what you will do, what you think, why you think what you think. Everything negative that you think can be attributed to either genetics or environmental disposition. There are no such things as thoughts created entirely from individuality, because every possible 'cause' was made by God himself.
To make the concept simpler to follow, it's similar to a man holding a hostage and forcing the hostage to make a choice of whether or not to help the criminal. Yes he has 'free choice' but 'free choice' and 'free will' are entirely different. There is no free will when it comes to God because he laid out the terms for you. Help him out, worship him or face spiritual death.

Absolutely! If you can stop a murder, but do not, you are just as much to blame as the murderer. Also we are not talking about men, we are talking about a supposed “all powerful” “all good” being. If he was really all good, why would he want to see pain and suffering.
As for free will. It’s a cop out excuse at best. If god gave us free will, he knew we would sin and cause pain. Yet he instigated it any way.

Swissh:

Absolutely! If you can stop a murder, but do not, you are just as much to blame as the murderer. Also we are not talking about men, we are talking about a supposed “all powerful” “all good” being. If he was really all good, why would he want to see pain and suffering.
As for free will. It’s a cop out excuse at best. If god gave us free will, he knew we would sin and cause pain. Yet he instigated it any way.

Absolutely God made us, knowing full well what would happen over the course of our life, so our free will is ultimately irrelevant. Or is he you saying God has no idea what we will do? That kinda destroys the basis for God powers.

Neymar1095:

The classic response has too many holes.

Okay.

God knows what you will do, what you think, why you think what you think.

Any problem with that?

Everything negative that you think can be attributed to either genetics or environmental disposition.

Not true. Sin arose in the heart of Lucifer in a holy environment in Heaven. Man too had no genetic tendencies predisposing him to sin when he fell.

There are no such things as thoughts created entirely from individuality,

This would have been true if atoms alone jumbled and jumbled for billions of years to produce man and everything in him. Then it would mean that human thoughts are but results of random interaction of atoms with themselves. But God created man with a mind capable of thinking, and with a conscience, and with the ability and freedom to make choices that he truly wants.

because every possible 'cause' was made by God himself.

what according to you is the cause of man's thoughts?

To make the concept simpler to follow, it's similar to a man holding a hostage and forcing the hostage to make a choice of whether or not to help the criminal.

This analogy doesn't apply here. Rather than being held "hostage", man is actually very free to do whatever he wants. Or are you not?

Yes he has 'free choice' but 'free choice' and 'free will' are entirely different.

Really? Can you differentiate between both?

There is no free will when it comes to God because he laid out the terms for you. Help him out, worship him or face spiritual death.

I see you have qualms with the fact that choices have consequences. But have you imagined living in a world where choices don't have consequences?

You're funny..how can you blame someone else for man's actions. You make it look like humanity is a story that God should manipulate. If we men think evil thoughts and commit evil actions, then you expect God to swoop in and become superman.

He is omnipotent and yes he tries in his way to stop most things. It's called a conscience. That little voice in your head telling you not to do bad things. How many people listen, no but they expect to live without consequences. Don't you think that is selfish. We are not willing to change but we want to tell God to keep wiping the slate so it can be beds and roses for more sin. Good luck in your search for answers.

You don't need a pastor to answer your questions. I will advise you go through the bible from start to finish and ask God himself to answer your questions. He will answer you trust me. He too is interested in your opinions more than we folks on nairaland.

Swissh:
Assuming God is omnipotent and omniscient that also created everything, he is ultimately responsible for everything that is happening in the world. He is responsible because he knew beforehand everything that will happen. Even the terrible things. He allowed everything in this universe to happen.
Imagine a being with infinite power that also has knowledge of everything that ever was and ever will be. That's Gods most common definition. He is aware of everything bad in this world and even created it. There are good things in the world, but that doesn't take away from the fact that God also allows his creations to suffer.
So, try to inform me on why God is NOT responsible for everything that is suffering, and everything that has suffered in the world he created. And why you choose to believe such a God exists?

And now you blame God for poverty, really? Have you ever tried to move close to poor people and study how they reason? A typical poor person will get a 13 year old pregnant without work, and by the time he hits 20 he was would have 10 kids running around saying Papa. They don't think of family planning, they don't even try to plan on how to make a living. Poverty is as a result of wrong choices. When you fail, you get up and try again but a poor man will prefer to stay by the road and beg. Or they resort to drinking palm wine. You blame God for this? Really?

For the still borns and child deformities, yoy still blame God. Do you know that women ought to learn the best ways to manage pregnancies. There are certain foods, herbs and drugs that should be avoided. When a woman fails to live under the proper conditions to manage a pregnancy, what do you expect. You still blame God for this?.

Children with kwashiorkor, their parents keep breeding more and don't even have a livelihood to raise one child not to talk of 10 and you all still blame God for this?

Well I think we should also blame God for lack of electricity, war and visa refusals. Oh yes blame him all you want but the fact remains, we do things and for every action there is an equally opposite reaction.

Anyway that's my opinion. I'm just saying

Niflheim:
This is the aspect of religion that always makes the so-called believers look like candidates for an emergency lobotomy!!!

So many little children died of starvation in Africa in the 80s, I guess it was all part of their "god's divine" plan!!!

All the little children that were stillborn in their mother's womb? Was that also part of his plan? And they still worship him/her/it?

You are all fools.

peggywebbs:
And now you blame God for poverty, really? Have you ever tried to move close to poor people and study how they reason? A typical poor person will get a 13 year old pregnant without work, and by the time he hits 20 he was would have 10 kids running around saying Papa. They don't think of family planning, they don't even try to plan on how to make a living. Poverty is as a result of wrong choices. When you fail, you get up and try again but a poor man will prefer to stay by the road and beg. Or they resort to drinking palm wine. You blame God for this? Really?

For the still borns and child deformities, yoy still blame God. Do you know that women ought to learn the best ways to manage pregnancies. There are certain foods, herbs and drugs that should be avoided. When a woman fails to live under the proper conditions to manage a pregnancy, what do you expect. You still blame God for this?.

Children with kwashiorkor, their parents keep breeding more and don't even have a livelihood to raise one child not to talk of 10 and you all still blame God for this?

Well I think we should also blame God for lack of electricity, war and visa refusals. Oh yes blame him all you want but the fact remains, we do things and for every action there is an equally opposite reaction.

Anyway that's my opinion. I'm just saying

peggywebbs:
You're funny..how can you blame someone else for man's actions. You make it look like humanity is a story that God should manipulate. If we men think evil thoughts and commit evil actions, then you expect God to swoop in and become superman.

He is omnipotent and yes he tries in his way to stop most things. It's called a conscience. That little voice in your head telling you not to do bad things. How many people listen, no but they expect to live without consequences. Don't you think that is selfish. We are not willing to change but we want to tell God to keep wiping the slate so it can be beds and roses for more sin. Good luck in your search for answers.

You don't need a pastor to answer your questions. I will advise you go through the bible from start to finish and ask God himself to answer your questions. He will answer you trust me. He too is interested in your opinions more than we folks on nairaland.

Evil isn't God's creation, it emanated from creatures. Evil however has a contingent existence, it doesn't have a necessary existence. It's transient, only good lasts forever.

Good luck... taking advise from a person that died alone without wife and kids. A person that taught people not to worry about life and ended up spending all his life chasing life's philosophy and failing to live to appreciate what love and family offers. A person that died alone and most of his philosophy was a copy of what other philosopher's were making noise about. Very unoriginal.. mtchew

Dantedasz:

peggywebbs:
Good luck... taking advise from a person that died alone without wife and kids. A person that taught people not to worry about life and ended up spending all his life chasing life's philosophy and failing to live to appreciate what love and family offers. A person that died alone and most of his philosophy was a copy of what other philosopher's were making noise about. Very unoriginal.. mtchew

Leave the messenger. Address the message.

Ok I have left the messenger for now as for the message.

Is God willing to prevent evil but not able?
First of all what is evil? It means profoundly immoral and wicked. Evil started from the very beginning from the sin of the first man. Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree because they were tempted. The devil was able to proof that man was not infallible and wanted to show to God that his precious humans are not as perfect as he is. That is why the devil is referred to as the accuser of man.

You see the tree gave us knowledge of both good and bad, evil and pure and almost made us like God himself. Now you see, we had free will. We could choose. To be fair, God sent not only man away from heaven but he also sent the devil too.

Time after time, he hoped man will redeem himself by making right decisions but here again Cain killed his brother Abel because of jealousy. Even though the bible makes reference to only one example but we all know that there were many things that piled up in Cain's mind to kill his brother. Sin did not stop there.

Did God try to prevent evil? Yes. He did when he cleansed the earth with water and left Noah but did that stop sin from happening No. This pained God because he wasn't happy to destroy what he had created and that was the very first time he made a vow never to destroy the earth with water ever again.

Next the Israelites after crying persistently for freedom got it but did they stop evil. No. Instead they carried the gods of their slave masters and were worshipping them even though they knew they were saved. Even with all the signs and wonders, did they change . No.

God then sent he son Jesus Christ. Jesus came to show them who God was because most people just like you then were wondering if God was real because they never saw him. Despite all the truth they saw. What did man do, they were afraid of his power, kings were scared of losing authority, temple leaders were scared too and what did they do? They killed him. This is just but a few examples of how God intervened in the life of man and this is in times past. Today, he still does, he sends men of God and religious leaders to the Government to counsel them, he speaks to the hearts and minds of men but just like the Israelites, we don't listen. If God were to smite every evil person in the world, we can would all be dead.

Now what is evil, if you thinking it only means to kill, then you're joking, even the smallest lie is evil, anything not good is evil.

So is God willing to prevent evil? Yes he is. Is man willing to stop evil? No

Is he able but not willing?

If he were to reason like you and I, by your definition of preventing evil, then I'm sure you know the answer. Because God is not malevolent, he gives us more than second chances to change. That is why the theif of today thinks they've gotten away until their chances run out. He is merciful and hopes that the heart of man will repent and choose the right way.

Is he both able and willing?

They said there is nothing impossible for God to do. But he sees beyond our own literal thoughts. We think of solutions today and do not anticipate the consequences. He sees beyond that. God works with results. He wants man to discover the truth, to learn from their wicked ways and retrace their steps. If you listen to his voice, you would know better to always follow the truth.

Whence cometh evil?

Evil does not come from God. It comes from the desires of the flesh. Man desires power, pleasure, lust, food and so much more and they are ready and willing to kill for it. All these things they seek are natural and our birth right but because of greed we are never content. How do you blame God for man's greed when he has given us all that we desire.

Why do we call him God?

He is God because he makes everything you see around you possible. Have you asked yourself where man came from, where the clouds come from, even the gases that scientists decieve themselves studying , were do they come from. Man can't even create an actual skin or flesh, we can't make even the sand on the ground. We don't know who constructed the womb of a woman and how it fertilizes eggs and forms a child. No man can create the seas, nor the wind nor the mountains, or the molten magma. No man can build a world in circle that will be able to hold thrillions of people in it. Think about it.. where did they all come from, the birds, animals, the creeping insects, the angels, the beasts. The nine planets, the bright sun that till today no human being can get close but yet who positioned the earth to get light from it during the day and the moon at night. So what else do you call a supernatural being which no one can see but people have testified to hearing his voice, that has done all of these things which no man, Philosopher can do? It is God.

No matter how much you believe in Philosophy, science and your inner self, you can never explain the wonders of this world. As for evil. It has an end. Read the Book of Revelations.

Dantedasz:


Leave the messenger. Address the message.

peggywebbs:
Ok I have left the messenger for now as for the message.

Is God willing to prevent evil but not able?
First of all what is evil? It means profoundly immoral and wicked. Evil started from the very beginning from the sin of the first man. Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree because they were tempted. The devil was able to proof that man was not infallible and wanted to show to God that his precious humans are not as perfect as he is. That is why the devil is referred to as the accuser of man.

You see the tree gave us knowledge of both good and bad, evil and pure and almost made us like God himself. Now you see, we had free will. We could choose. To be fair, God sent not only man away from heaven but he also sent the devil too.

Time after time, he hoped man will redeem himself by making right decisions but here again Cain killed his brother Abel because of jealousy. Even though the bible makes reference to only one example but we all know that there were many things that piled up in Cain's mind to kill his brother. Sin did not stop there.

Did God try to prevent evil? Yes. He did when he cleansed the earth with water and left Noah but did that stop sin from happening No. This pained God because he wasn't happy to destroy what he had created and that was the very first time he made a vow never to destroy the earth with water ever again.

Next the Israelites after crying persistently for freedom got it but did they stop evil. No. Instead they carried the gods of their slave masters and were worshipping them even though they knew they were saved. Even with all the signs and wonders, did they change . No.

God then sent he son Jesus Christ. Jesus came to show them who God was because most people just like you then were wondering if God was real because they never saw him. Despite all the truth they saw. What did man do, they were afraid of his power, kings were scared of losing authority, temple leaders were scared too and what did they do? They killed him. This is just but a few examples of how God intervened in the life of man and this is in times past. Today, he still does, he sends men of God and religious leaders to the Government to counsel them, he speaks to the hearts and minds of men but just like the Israelites, we don't listen. If God were to smite every evil person in the world, we can would all be dead.

Now what is evil, if you thinking it only means to kill, then you're joking, even the smallest lie is evil, anything not good is evil.

So is God willing to prevent evil? Yes he is. Is man willing to stop evil? No

Is he able but not willing?

If he were to reason like you and I, by your definition of preventing evil, then I'm sure you know the answer. Because God is not malevolent, he gives us more than second chances to change. That is why the theif of today thinks they've gotten away until their chances run out. He is merciful and hopes that the heart of man will repent and choose the right way.

Is he both able and willing?

They said there is nothing impossible for God to do. But he sees beyond our own literal thoughts. We think of solutions today and do not anticipate the consequences. He sees beyond that. God works with results. He wants man to discover the truth, to learn from their wicked ways and retrace their steps. If you listen to his voice, you would know better to always follow the truth.

Whence cometh evil?

Evil does not come from God. It comes from the desires of the flesh. Man desires power, pleasure, lust, food and so much more and they are ready and willing to kill for it. All these things they seek are natural and our birth right but because of greed we are never content. How do you blame God for man's greed when he has given us all that we desire.

Why do we call him God?

He is God because he makes everything you see around you possible. Have you asked yourself where man came from, where the clouds come from, even the gases that scientists decieve themselves studying , were do they come from. Man can't even create an actual skin or flesh, we can't make even the sand on the ground. We don't know who constructed the womb of a woman and how it fertilizes eggs and forms a child. No man can create the seas, nor the wind nor the mountains, or the molten magma. No man can build a world in circle that will be able to hold thrillions of people in it. Think about it.. where did they all come from, the birds, animals, the creeping insects, the angels, the beasts. The nine planets, the bright sun that till today no human being can get close but yet who positioned the earth to get light from it during the day and the moon at night. So what else do you call a supernatural being which no one can see but people have testified to hearing his voice, that has done all of these things which no man, Philosopher can do? It is God.

No matter how much you believe in Philosophy, science and your inner self, you can never explain the wonders of this world. As for evil. It has an end. Read the Book of Revelations.

Now this is why I try to avoid having discussions with Christians/religionists. A simple question of why an almighty omniscient and omnipotent creator God has refused to destroy evil which is his creation and you take me on a rigmarole of all the stories in a book of ancient goat herders?
This is why I prefer responding to Christians/religionists with animations/cartoons or meme's so I don't waste my brain cells. I don't want to keep slamming my head on a wall of irrationality.

Now for the last time the question is-WHY DOES AN OMNIPOTENT AND OMNISCIENT CREATOR GOD ALLOW EVIL TO EXIST?

Lol @ the long epistle. It's not my fault. I'm not the one who quoted Epicurus who by the way wrote over 300 books to convince people about his ideas. I just mentioned some points in one book.


WHY DOES AN OMNIPOTENT AND OMNISCIENT CREATOR GOD ALLOW EVIL TO EXIST?

God does not allow Evil to exist. He doesn't want to wipe out our existence. If you don't want evil to exist, then I think the whole world will be wiped out because you and I have done evil things at one point in our lives. There is no small or big evil. Thank you. Unless you have a basis for weighing evil.

Dantedasz:



Now this is why I try to avoid having discussions with Christians/religionists. A simple question of why an almighty omniscient and omnipotent creator God has refused to destroy evil which is his creation and you take me on a rigmarole of all the stories in a book of ancient goat herders?
This is why I prefer responding to Christians/religionists with animations/cartoons or meme's so I don't waste my brain cells. I don't want to keep slamming my head on a wall of irrationality.

Now for the last time the question is-WHY DOES AN OMNIPOTENT AND OMNISCIENT CREATOR GOD ALLOW EVIL TO EXIST?

peggywebbs:
Lol @ the long epistle. It's not my fault. I'm not the one who quoted Epicurus who by the way wrote over 300 books to convince people about his ideas. I just mentioned some points in one book.


WHY DOES AN OMNIPOTENT AND OMNISCIENT CREATOR GOD ALLOW EVIL TO EXIST?

God does not allow Evil to exist. He doesn't want to wipe out our existence. If you don't want evil to exist, then I think the whole world will be wiped out because you and I have done evil things at one point in our lives. There is no small or big evil. Thank you. Unless you have a basis for weighing evil.

I give up.....

I swear I can't stop laughing.

Dantedasz:


I give up.....