Premise 1: Any true faith from God that is meant for the salvation of humanity must have been in existence from the beginning of humanity

Why ?

Since the faith was meant for the salvation of humanity, it would not make sense if some part of humanity have lived and died before the establishment of that faith. In fact, they would have a genuine excuse to tender before God



Premise 2: Any true faith from God that is meant for the salvation of humanity must be within the reach of every human being irrespective of the place and time of his (her) existence.

Why ?

Since the faith was meant for the salvation of humanity, it would not make sense if that faith is not within the reach of some part of humanity. Again, they would also have a genuine excuse to tender before God.

Presently in the world we have Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Sikhism, Jainism, Bahaism and Shintoism

Now let us test the compliance of all these faiths with the two premises cited above.

Premise 3; Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Sikhism, Jainism, Bahaism and Shintoism all GOT THEIR NAMES from the names (or locality) of their founders. That is to say Buddhism came from the name Buddha, Hinduism from Hindu, Confucianism from Confucius, Zoroastrianism from Zoroaster, Judaism from Judah etc
Since all these faiths got their names from the names or locality of their founders and their founders are not the first set of human being on earth, all these faiths could not have been in existence from beginning of humanity. Therefore, they all FAIL to comply with Premise 1. Again, all these faiths are not within the reach of every human being. Therefore, they also FAIL to comply with Premise 2.

Therefore, we are left with Christianity and Islam

Before you can become a sincere Christian, you must believe in ATONING WORK OF JESUS ON THE CROSS for your salvation.

But many generations of human being have lived and died BEFORE the arrival of Jesus and BEFORE his death on the cross. Hence, most of the PAST generations of human being are not opportuned to hear about Jesus and his atoning work on the cross; let alone believing in him as their Savior.
Therefore if, according to Christianity, Jesus is the ONLY TRUE WAY to reach God (John 14:6) and many generations have lived and died BEFORE his arrival, then Christianity also FAIL to comply with Premise 1 and Premise 2 because it was not started at the beginning and it is not within the reach of every human being.



Since we are able to FALSIFY all other faiths on the surface of the earth, the only faith EXPECTED to be approved by God for salvation of humanity is ISLAM.


But as we have done with other faiths, let us investigate whether Islam complies with Premise 1 and Premise 2 or also not.comply
Islam (from Arabic word 'aslama') simply means "Submission to the will of God at any point in time"

Qur'an declare as follows;
Yes- WHOEVER submits himself to God and is a doer of good,- he will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve ( Qur'an 2:112)

Therefore, the MINIMUM requirements for anyone to practice Islam (i:e Submission to will of God) and then become Muslim (i:e Submitter to the will of God) are;
1. Believe in oneness of God (which God has made known to every intelligent human being through many signs in His creation)
2. Submission to the will of God through performance of good deeds and avoidance of bad deeds ( which God has also made known to all human being through their conscience)

Therefore, if it happened that the past generations of human being were not opportuned to hear about any special revelation from God, then they can still become Muslims (submitters to the will of God) by fulfilling these minimum requirements.

But why these minimum requirements ? What about five daily prayers, fasting and other compulsory acts stipulated in the Qur'an brought by prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

God says in the Qur'an;
God does not impose upon any soul a duty but to the extent of its ability ( Qur'an 2:286).

Therefore, God cannot impose what is written in the Qur'an upon the people that never heard about any special revelation from God because it would have gone beyond their ablity.

Besides, it is not written in the Qur'an that Muhammad is the ONLY way as it is written in the Bible that Jesus is the ONLY way to reach God (John 14:6). So it is possible for the past generations of human being to become Muslims (i:e submitters to the will of God) just like Abraham, Moses and others have become Muslims even WITHOUT believing in Qur'an since it was yet to be revealed .

Practicing what is written in the Qur'an is ONLY a condition for the present human beings to become Muslims since it has now been revealed.

So being a Muslim just depend on submitting to the will of God base on what God has revealed at any particular point in time.

For example, one of the God's will that was revealed to Abraham is "Sacrifice your only son for Me". Since Abraham was able to submit to this very will, he has practiced Islam (i:e submission to God's will). Therefore, Abraham was a Muslim (submitter to the will of God). Yet we cannot say Abraham was a Christian because he has lived and died before the arrival of Jesus Christ, the person that make Christianity to be possible ( see John 14:6).

Qur'an States as follows;

Abraham was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was an upright and devoted Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists (Qur'an 3:67)

Hence, Islam (i:e submission to the will of God) is attainable by every human being irrespective of the place and time of his existence on the surface of the earth.
Therefore, Islam complies perfectly with Premise 1 and Premise 2.

This is the reason why Qur'an 3:19 declare as follows;
"Verily the only faith in the sight of God is Islam"

Do you think it is just a COINCIDENCE for Qur'an to contain this very verse while all other scriptures do not contain the names of their faiths talk less of saying their faiths are from God ?

Do you think it is just a COINCIDENCE for Islam to be named "Islam" rather than "Muhammadanism" ?

If the name of Islam is Muhammadanism then it would be in the same category with all other faiths that got their names from the names or title or locality of their founders (e.g Buddhism from Buddha, Hinduism from Hindu, Confucianism from Confucius, Zoroastrianism from Zoroaster, Christianity from Christ etc).

But Islam is UNIQUE among all other faiths on the surface of the earth. Its name is not derived from the word 'Muhammad' because Islam was never founded by him. Islam was founded by God Himself.

OBJECTION 1;
If the past generations of humanity can attain Islam without Prophet Muhammad, then what is the essence of his coming ?
REPLY;
God knew very well that Satan will incite some people to establish all other false faiths which would cause people to DEVIATE from original Islam (i:e believing in ONENESS of God and submitting to the will of God at any particular point in time). For example, Hindus believe in many gods, Buddhists believe that there is no need to believe in any God or god. Christians believe that God is three in one or one in three. Atheists believe that there is no God. Therefore, there is need for God to correct all these false teachings invented by Satan. This is one of the reasons God sent the Holy Qur'an through His last prophet to bring the humanity back to the original track. So prophet Muhammad (pbuh) came not to found a completely new faith but to REVIVE the original Islam.
OBJECTION 2;
So if Prophet Muhammad came to revive the original Islam with its MINIMUM requirements explained up there, then why ADDITIONAL requirements like five daily prayers, fasting, Zakat and other compulsory acts in Islam ?
REPLY:
Human beings are not in a position to understand completely the reasons why God commanded us to do some certain things. Yet we can still use our sense to fathom some of these reasons. The most obvious reason is that God want to test our obedience to His additional commands just like He tested the obedience of Abraham to the command of sacrificing his only son.
Another fathomable reason is that God want to create a specific mode of worship in Islam through which Muslims would be recognized among the people of other faiths.

Please which of the THREE PREMISES explained above is not true ?

I'm confused. What is premise three ?

Those religious got their names from their founders (which they didn't) so.... what does that have to do with anything ?

@saucyxo

That is to say Buddhism came from the name Buddha, Hinduism from Hindu, Judaism from Judah, Confucianism from Confucius, Zoroastrianism from Zoroaster etc.

Premise 3;

Since their founders are not the first set of human being on earth, all these faiths could not have been in existence from beginning. Therefore, they all FAILED to conform with Premise 1. Again, all these faiths are not within the reach of every human being. Therefore, they also FAILED to conform with Premise 2.

Abdulgaffar22:
@saucyxo

That is to say Buddhism came from the name Buddha, Hinduism from Hindu, Judaism from Judah, Confucianism from Confucius, Zoroastrianism from Zoroaster etc.

Premise 3;

Since their founders are not the first set of human being on earth, all these faiths could not have been in existence from beginning. Therefore, they all FAILED to conform with Premise 1. Again, all these faiths are not within the reach of every human being. Therefore, they also FAILED to conform with Premise 2.

So premise three is failure to comply to premise one and premise two ?

I thought these were all independent points. The last question is "Please which of the THREE PREMISES explained above is not true ?"
How can you ask that question when Premise three is simply that premise one and two is true.

@saucyxo

Premise 3 is NOT a failure to comply to premise 1 and Premise 2. Rather Premise 3 is the analysis of whether all those faiths comply with premise 1 and premise 2 or not

But if you think it is wrong to call that analysis a premise 3, then I agree with you. Thanks for the correction!

Abdulgaffar22:
@saucyxo

Premise 3 is NOT a failure to comply to premise 1 and Premise 2. Rather Premise 3 is the analysis of whether all those faiths comply with premise 1 and premise 2 or not

But if you think it is wrong to call that analysis a premise 3, then I agree with you. Thanks for the correction!

That's not an analysis at all. You're assuming premise one and premise two is true. You cant base another premise on your assumption.

Theres no proof premise one or premise two is true. Just because the Quran/Bible says so is not a logical deduction

@Saucyxo

Where did I say I got my premises from Qur'an or Bible ?
Pls did you really comprehend the topic of my post ? My topic says: "the only true faith approved by God for the salvation of humanity"

As you can see from the topic, I have already ASSUMED that God exist and I have already ASSUMED that only one faith is approved by God for salvation of humanity.

If these two assumptions are true, then my premises are perfectly true. However, if you think my premises are still not true even with these two assumptions, then state the reason why they are not true

But if you are having problems with these two assumptions, then let me know

Abdulgaffar22:
@Saucyxo

Where did I say I got my premises from Qur'an or Bible ?
Pls did you really comprehend the topic of my post ? My topic says: "the only true faith approved by God for the salvation of humanity"

As you can see from the topic, I have already ASSUMED that God exist and I have already ASSUMED that only one faith is approved by God for salvation of humanity.

If these two assumptions are true, then my premises are perfectly true. However, if you think my premises are still not true even with these two assumptions, then state the reason why they are not true

But if you are having problems with these two assumptions, then let me know

Sorry. I was talking about paragraph two where you justify your assumptions.

You said "Therefore, the MINIMUM requirements for anyone to practice Islam (i:e Submission to will of God) and then become Muslim (i:e Submitter to the will of God) are;
1. Believe in oneness of God (which God has made known to every intelligent human being through many signs in His creation)
2. Submission to the will of God through performance of good deeds and avoidance of bad deeds ( which God has also made known to all human being through their conscience)"

Where was it made clear prior to all the other prophets that one had to believe in the oneness of God? If you're going to assume that the Quran asked the first man, Adam, to Believe in the oneness of Allah then you can make the assumption about the Bible. Unless its explicitly written otherwise.

In that sense, one of the most important pillars of Islam is the Shahadah. Which explicitly asks you to accept Muhammad (SAW) as a messenger. Obviously Muhammad (SAW) wasn't there from the beginning of time. It's really no different from Christianity from your analysis. In fact the Quran explicitly says "Whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared a blaze for the unbelievers."

The bible also says. “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” Abraham was before the time of Jesus and his righteousness got him through.

@Saucyxo

You said : "Where was it made clear prior to all the other prophets that one had to believe in the oneness of God?"

The answer to the question you're asking is right there in my words you quoted above. But let me help you to quote it again;

"Believe in oneness of God (which God has made known to every intelligent human being THROUGH MANY SIGNS IN HIS CREATION)"

Do you really believe in any God ? If you believe in God, then oneness of God can be inferred as follows; if there are many gods controlling our physical world, there will be conflict of will between these gods which would result in chaos. Since our physical world is not in chaos but in perfect order, then there must be one supreme God.


Again you said Islam is not different from Christianity from my analysis. Please read below the qoute from my original post.

"Being a Muslim just depend on submitting to the will of God base on what God has revealed at any particular point in time.

For example, one of the God's will that was revealed to Abraham is "Sacrifice your only son for Me". Since Abraham was able to submit to this very will, he has practiced Islam (i:e submission to God's will). Therefore, Abraham was a Muslim (submitter to the will of God). Yet we cannot say Abraham was a Christian because he has lived and died before the arrival of Jesus Christ, the person that make Christianity to be possible ( see John 14:6).

Qur'an States as follows;

Abraham was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was an upright and devoted Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists (Qur'an 3:67)"

If believing in Muhammad (pbuh) is ABSOLUTELY a necessary condition for any one to become Muslim (submitter to the will of God) as you claimed, then why did Allah call Abraham( who came BEFORE Muhammad) an upright and devoted Muslim in the verse quoted above ?

Can you show us a biblical verse where God or Jesus called Abraham a Christian ?

Believing in Muhammad is only a condition for the PRESENT PEOPLE to become Muslims; not the past. So that verse of Qur'an you quoted only apply to those that witness the arrival of Muhammad and still not believed in him

Abdulgaffar22:
@Saucyxo

You said : "Where was it made clear prior to all the other prophets that one had to believe in the oneness of God?"

The answer to the question you're asking is right there in my words you quoted above. But let me help you to quote it again;

"Believe in oneness of God (which God has made known to every intelligent human being THROUGH MANY SIGNS IN HIS CREATION)"

Do you really believe in any God ? If you believe in God, then oneness of God can be inferred as follows; if there are many gods controlling our physical world, there will be conflict of will between these gods which would result in chaos. Since our physical world is not in chaos but in perfect order, then there must be one supreme God.


Again you said Islam is not different from Christianity from my analysis. Please read below the qoute from my original post.

"Being a Muslim just depend on submitting to the will of God base on what God has revealed at any particular point in time.

For example, one of the God's will that was revealed to Abraham is "Sacrifice your only son for Me". Since Abraham was able to submit to this very will, he has practiced Islam (i:e submission to God's will). Therefore, Abraham was a Muslim (submitter to the will of God). Yet we cannot say Abraham was a Christian because he has lived and died before the arrival of Jesus Christ, the person that make Christianity to be possible ( see John 14:6).

Qur'an States as follows;

Abraham was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was an upright and devoted Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists (Qur'an 3:67)"

If believing in Muhammad (pbuh) is ABSOLUTELY a necessary condition for any one to become Muslim (submitter to the will of God) as you claimed, then why did Allah call Abraham( who came BEFORE Muhammad) an upright and devoted Muslim in the verse quoted above ?

Can you show us a biblical verse where God or Jesus called Abraham a Christian ?

Believing in Muhammad is only a condition for the PRESENT PEOPLE to become Muslims; not the past. So that verse of Qur'an you quoted only apply to those that witness the arrival of Muhammad and still not believed in him

@bolded. Where did you get that from ? So during the ancient times when people used to worship many gods. They used this exact logic to determine there were many gods.

Since our physical world is not in chaos ? What does that mean ? What's chaos ? I would consider tsunamis and earthquakes and wildfire chaos no? You're making an assumption and then only backing them up with any facts. You're making an assumption, backing them with assumptions and then claiming it makes your assumption correct.
This assumption only applies to people of faith because anyone who doesn't believe would have the Holy Books nullified.

You've completely lost me again with the Abraham story. As a Christian, who believes Jesus is God, when Abraham tried to sacrifice his son he was submitting to Jesus (God). Jesus is God. I'm sure if you're being unbiased here I wouldn't have to explain the concept of the trinity. Jesus said in the Bible that he existed before Abraham.

Just because the Quran states that Abraham is a muslim doesn't make it true. You cant compare two religions and then use one Holy book against the other. If you were to do that then you would have to take what both Books say as the absolute truth. You cant assume one is true and one is not.
In that case, Jesus talks about how he is the first and last and how he is the forgiver of sins and he is equal to God. If you were to take both Books as truth then Abraham worshiped God/Jesus.

Saucyxo:


@bolded. Where did you get that from ? So during the ancient times when people used to worship many gods. They used this exact logic to determine there were many gods.

Since our physical world is not in chaos ? What does that mean ? What's chaos ? I would consider tsunamis and earthquakes and wildfire chaos no? You're making an assumption and then only backing them up with any facts. You're making an assumption, backing them with assumptions and then claiming it makes your assumption correct.
This assumption only applies to people of faith because anyone who doesn't believe would have the Holy Books nullified.

You've completely lost me again with the Abraham story. As a Christian, who believes Jesus is God, when Abraham tried to sacrifice his son he was submitting to Jesus (God). Jesus is God. I'm sure if you're being unbiased here I wouldn't have to explain the concept of the trinity. Jesus said in the Bible that he existed before Abraham.

Just because the Quran states that Abraham is a muslim doesn't make it true. You cant compare two religions and then use one Holy book against the other. If you were to do that then you would have to take what both Books say as the absolute truth. You cant assume one is true and one is not.
In that case, Jesus talks about how he is the first and last and how he is the forgiver of sins and he is equal to God. If you were to take both Books as truth then Abraham worshiped God/Jesus.

Yes the ancient people believe that there is one supreme God. They were only using small gods as a means of INTERCESSION to reach this supreme God.




Tsunamis, earthquake and others are disasters. They are not chaos. Chaos means irregularity or inconsistency in the physical world. For example, we know that sun rise from the east and set at the west. If the opposite case occur, then that is chaos. But since all the physical laws of the universe remain the same, our physical world is in a perfect order. This shows that one supreme mind (not different minds) is in control


Yes Christians may believe that Jesus is God. But Bible clearly dispute this assertion. For example, consider the following verse from the Bible;

Mark 10:17-18 says as follows ; "Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.”.

If Jesus is God, why did he reject being called “good” and then submit that all goodness belongs only to God?


But I have already explained why Abraham can be called Muslim and why he cannot be called Christian before I brought that verse of Qur'an to buttress my point. See my explanation below;

"one of the God's will that was revealed to Abraham is "Sacrifice your only son for Me". Since Abraham was able to submit to this very will, he has practiced Islam (i:e submission to God's will). Therefore, Abraham was a Muslim (submitter to the will of God). Yet we cannot say Abraham was a Christian because he has lived and died before the arrival of Jesus Christ , the person that make Christianity to be possible ( see John 14:6)."
Before you can become a Christian you must believe that Jesus died for your sins on the cross. Can you show us any biblical verse to prove that Abraham had such believe ?


So it is understable why Abraham was a Muslim and not a Christian even without using any quotation either from the Bible or Qur'an.

Abdulgaffar22:


Yes the ancient people believe that there is one supreme God. They were only using small gods as a means of INTERCESSION to reach this supreme God.




Tsunamis, earthquake and others are disasters. They are not chaos. Chaos means irregularity or inconsistency in the physical world. For example, we know that sun rise from the east and set at the west. If the opposite case occur, then that is chaos. But since all the physical laws of the universe remain the same, our physical world is in a perfect order. This shows that one supreme mind (not different minds) is in control


Yes Christians may believe that Jesus is God. But Bible clearly dispute this assertion. For example, consider the following verse from the Bible;

Mark 10:17-18 says as follows ; "Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.”.

If Jesus is God, why did he reject being called “good” and then submit that all goodness belongs only to God?


But I have already explained why Abraham can be called Muslim and why he cannot be called Christian before I brought that verse of Qur'an to buttress my point. See my explanation below;

"one of the God's will that was revealed to Abraham is "Sacrifice your only son for Me". Since Abraham was able to submit to this very will, he has practiced Islam (i:e submission to God's will). Therefore, Abraham was a Muslim (submitter to the will of God). Yet we cannot say Abraham was a Christian because he has lived and died before the arrival of Jesus Christ , the person that make Christianity to be possible ( see John 14:6)."
Before you can become a Christian you must believe that Jesus died for your sins on the cross. Can you show us any biblical verse to prove that Abraham had such believe ?


So it is understable why Abraham was a Muslim and not a Christian even without using any quotation either from the Bible or Qur'an.

No they didn't. They believed there were many gods. A quick Google search will show you right from mesolithic times there was always polytheism. Monotheism is much recent. From ancient Egyptians to the Greeks to the Romans. All intelligent. All polytheists.

Really ? You mean to tell me that you feel the sun rising the opposite direction is chaos but the literal earth separating and spewing fire isn't ? Without modern science and technology, the first people could decipher that the sun rising one way and setting the other was chaos but powerful floods and shaking of the earth isn't? Right....


The same Bible that Jesus says he is equal to God and he is the son of God. Christians believe the Jesus on Earth is the human manifestation of God.

How did he practice Islam ?
Like I said previously, Jesus said in the Bible he was there before Abraham. Hes been there since the beginning of time. The people before Christ were believers. Like the quote I previously included, to Christians, Jesus is God. While on Earth Jesus was simply a human manifestation of God.

Saucyxo:


No they didn't. They believed there were many gods. A quick Google search will show you right from mesolithic times there was always polytheism. Monotheism is much recent. From ancient Egyptians to the Greeks to the Romans. All intelligent. All polytheists.

Yes they did believe in one supreme God in addition to many gods. Hardly do you see any ethnic group without having a name for supreme God. For example, in Yoruba land, Supreme God is called " Olorun or Eledumare". In Hausa land, Supreme God is called "Ubangidi". In Igbo land, Supreme God is called " Chineke". If they didn't believe in any Supreme God, then where did all these names come from ?

Saucyxo:


Really ? You mean to tell me that you feel the sun rising the opposite direction is chaos but the literal earth separating and spewing fire isn't ? Without modern science and technology, the first people could decipher that the sun rising one way and setting the other was chaos but powerful floods and shaking of the earth isn't? Right....

Hardly do you see an atheist among the ancient people. It was the theory of evolution that turn many scientists to atheists. Prior to Darwinism, most people believed in supernatural power. So there is no need for the ancient people to distinguish between chaos and disaster. They believed that flooding and earthquake is an handiwork of God or gods.

Saucyxo:


The same Bible that Jesus says he is equal to God and he is the son of God. Christians believe the Jesus on Earth is the human manifestation of God.

If Bible says Jesus is God and at same time says Jesus is not God, then that is a contradiction. This prove that Bible cannot be relied upon.

Saucyxo:


How did he practice Islam ?
Like I said previously, Jesus said in the Bible he was there before Abraham. Hes been there since the beginning of time. The people before Christ were believers. Like the quote I previously included, to Christians, Jesus is God. While on Earth Jesus was simply a human manifestation of God.

Abraham practiced Islam as follows;
One of the God's will that was revealed to Abraham is "Sacrifice your only son for Me". Since Abraham was able to submit to this very will, he has practiced Islam (i:e submission to God's will). Therefore, Abraham was a Muslim (submitter to the will of God).

Pls prove to us that Abraham was a Christian by showing us any biblical verse that says Abraham believed in the atoning work of Jesus on the cross.

Abdulgaffar22:
Premise 1: Any true faith from God that is meant for the salvation of humanity must have been in existence from the beginning of humanity

It doesn't change the fact religions are man-made.

Why ?

Your post is full of sentiments and confirmation bias.

Since the faith was meant for the salvation of humanity, it would not make sense if some part of humanity have lived and died before the establishment of that faith. In fact, they would have a genuine excuse to tender before God

Okay let's see.

Premise 2: Any true faith from God that is meant for the salvation of humanity must be within the reach of every human being irrespective of the place and time of his (her) existence.

Why ?

Since the faith was meant for the salvation of humanity, it would not make sense if that faith is not within the reach of some part of humanity. Again, they would also have a genuine excuse to tender before God.

Presently in the world we have Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Sikhism, Jainism, Bahaism and Shintoism

Every faith started and exist in their local area, the religion are like the culture of the region created by men who are power hungry and delusional.

Now let us test the compliance of all these faiths with the two premises cited above.

Premise 3; Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Sikhism, Jainism, Bahaism and Shintoism all GOT THEIR NAMES from the names (or locality) of their founders. That is to say Buddhism came from the name Buddha, Hinduism from Hindu, Confucianism from Confucius, Zoroastrianism from Zoroaster, Judaism from Judah etc
Since all these faiths got their names from the names or locality of their founders and their founders are not the first set of human being on earth, all these faiths could not have been in existence from beginning of humanity. Therefore, they all FAIL to comply with Premise 1. Again, all these faiths are not within the reach of every human being. Therefore, they also FAIL to comply with Premise 2.

Therefore, we are left with Christianity and Islam

Buddha is not a name but a philosophy and tittle, Hindu is not a name and so many of the religions, so I don't understand what makes Islam different here?

Islam was created by some Arab men in the desert and spread it through conquest.

Abdulgaffar22:
Before you can become a sincere Christian, you must believe in ATONING WORK OF JESUS ON THE CROSS for your salvation.

Yes.

But many generations of human being have lived and died BEFORE the arrival of Jesus and BEFORE his death on the cross. Hence, most of the PAST generations of human being are not opportuned to hear about Jesus and his atoning work on the cross; let alone believing in him as their Savior.
Therefore if, according to Christianity, Jesus is the ONLY TRUE WAY to reach God (John 14:6) and many generations have lived and died BEFORE his arrival, then Christianity also FAIL to comply with Premise 1 and Premise 2 because it was not started at the beginning and it is not within the reach of every human being.

Jesus according to Christians is one with Yahweh/Jehovah and in the old testament prophets were sent to the Jews, in their belief does people before Jesus will be save too.

But I will say the people before Jesus were practicing Judaism so according to their belief they are save.

Since we are able to FALSIFY all other faiths on the surface of the earth, the only faith EXPECTED to be approved by God for salvation of humanity is ISLAM.

With what did you falsify all other Faiths? This is Hokum Nonsense!

Every faith claim to be right and preach salvation, they all believe their God sent them with their religions, no religion is superior and can use it sentiments to falsify another faith. It's like saying Arsenal is the right football club so therefore Chelsea is a false football club.

Islam is under the category along side all other religions, there's nothing special about it, other religions don't give a damn about Islam, infact the religion(Islam) to them is false!

But as we have done with other faiths, let us investigate whether Islam complies with Premise 1 and Premise 2 or also not.comply
Islam (from Arabic word 'aslama') simply means "Submission to the will of God at any point in time"

Qur'an declare as follows;
Yes- WHOEVER submits himself to God and is a doer of good,- he will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve ( Qur'an 2:112)

Therefore, the MINIMUM requirements for anyone to practice Islam (i:e Submission to will of God) and then become Muslim (i:e Submitter to the will of God) are;
1. Believe in oneness of God (which God has made known to every intelligent human being through many signs in His creation)
2. Submission to the will of God through performance of good deeds and avoidance of bad deeds ( which God has also made known to all human being through their conscience)

Therefore, if it happened that the past generations of human being were not opportuned to hear about any special revelation from God, then they can still become Muslims (submitters to the will of God) by fulfilling these minimum requirements.

But why these minimum requirements ? What about five daily prayers, fasting and other compulsory acts stipulated in the Qur'an brought by prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

God says in the Qur'an;
God does not impose upon any soul a duty but to the extent of its ability ( Qur'an 2:286).

Therefore, God cannot impose what is written in the Qur'an upon the people that never heard about any special revelation from God because it would have gone beyond their ablity.

Besides, it is not written in the Qur'an that Muhammad is the ONLY way as it is written in the Bible that Jesus is the ONLY way to reach God (John 14:6). So it is possible for the past generations of human being to become Muslims (i:e submitters to the will of God) just like Abraham, Moses and others have become Muslims even WITHOUT believing in Qur'an since it was yet to be revealed .

Practicing what is written in the Qur'an is ONLY a condition for the present human beings to become Muslims since it has now been revealed.

So being a Muslim just depend on submitting to the will of God base on what God has revealed at any particular point in time.

This is a lie. To be a Muslim is not about believing in God, it's about believing in a specific deity founded in Arabia, and one must believe in Muhammad, people before Muhammad don't even know about Islam, they don't practice Islam nor Allah sent prophets to all the nation, they are just lies and fairytales.

For example, one of the God's will that was revealed to Abraham is "Sacrifice your only son for Me". Since Abraham was able to submit to this very will, he has practiced Islam (i:e submission to God's will). Therefore, Abraham was a Muslim (submitter to the will of God). Yet we cannot say Abraham was a Christian because he has lived and died before the arrival of Jesus Christ, the person that make Christianity to be possible ( see John 14:6).

Qur'an States as follows;

Abraham was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was an upright and devoted Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists (Qur'an 3:67)

Hence, Islam (i:e submission to the will of God) is attainable by every human being irrespective of the place and time of his existence on the surface of the earth.
Therefore, Islam complies perfectly with Premise 1 and Premise 2.

Abraham is Hebrew who is said to be the founder of Judaism according to the Hebrew scriptures, Abraham doesn't know Allah nor Islam, Abraham deity is El now Yahweh.

Christianity and Islam came copying the Jewish religion.

This is the reason why Qur'an 3:19 declare as follows;
"Verily the only faith in the sight of God is Islam"

Do you think it is just a COINCIDENCE for Qur'an to contain this very verse while all other scriptures do not contain the names of their faiths talk less of saying their faiths are from God ?

Do you think it is just a COINCIDENCE for Islam to be named "Islam" rather than "Muhammadanism" ?

Hokum!

Have you read other religion scriptures to know if their God didn't mention the name of the religion? What has name even got to do with the validity of a religion?

Religion is a belief system not about names.

If the name of Islam is Muhammadanism then it would be in the same category with all other faiths that got their names from the names or title or locality of their founders (e.g Buddhism from Buddha, Hinduism from Hindu, Confucianism from Confucius, Zoroastrianism from Zoroaster, Christianity from Christ etc).

Actually Islam is among the category of other religions. Like I said Buddha is not a name but a philosophy, Hindu is not a name, Christ is not a name.

And stop making names of religion as bases of an argument, it's nonsensical.

But Islam is UNIQUE among all other faiths on the surface of the earth. Its name is not derived from the word 'Muhammad' because Islam was never founded by him. Islam was founded by God Himself.

Nah Islam was founded by an Ignorant Arab illiterate that came up with the religion in a desert cave.

tintingz:


It doesn't change the fact religions are man-made.

Provide an irrefutable evidence to prove that all religions are man made

tintingz:


Your post is full of sentiments and confirmation bias.

Where are those sentiments and confirmation bias ?

tintingz:

Okay let's see.

See what ?

tintingz:


Every faith started and exist in their local area, the religion are like the culture of the region created by men who are power hungry and delusional.

So all the prophets sent by God are deliberate liars ?

tintingz:


Buddha is not a name but a philosophy and tittle, Hindu is not a name and so many of the religions, so I don't understand what makes Islam different here?

Buddha is a title, Hindu is a name of locality. Islam is different because its name is not derived from name or title given to Muhammad (pbuh)

tintingz:


Islam was created by some Arab men in the desert and spread it through conquest.

Try to create your own and see how it is very easy to create a religion that would reach every part of the globe.

Abdulgaffar22:

Provide an irrefutable evidence to prove that all religions are man made

Religious beliefs are thoughts and fantasies of some people, religion in history started as a form Ignorance and to control the people.

You should wonder how every region, tribes has it own beliefs and cultures, there's no evidence to prove religion to be divine, no evidence to proof some deity spoke to some archaic men, you can only read them in a fairy book.

Where are those sentiments and confirmation bias ?

I just pointed out your sentiments.

See what ?

See Your Ignorance.

So all the prophets sent by God are deliberate liars ?

There are no prophets sent by God, we just have some deluded folks fantasizing their imaginary friends.

Buddha is a title, Hindu is a name of locality. Islam is different because its name is not derived from name or title given to Muhammad (pbuh)

Buddha is a title of a philosophy (someone who's awaken), Hindu is not someone's name, so tell how is this different from Islam? Islam is even Arabic.

Name of a religion is irrelevant, you can't use your fairytale to disprove another fairytale, it's nonsensical.

Try to create your own and see how it is very easy to create a religion that would reach every part of the globe.

Is this an argument?

Because I can use this to against your religion.

tintingz:

Yes.

Thanks for not denying the truth as you have done up there

tintingz:


Jesus according to Christians is one with Yahweh/Jehovah and in the old testament prophets were sent to the Jews, in their belief does people before Jesus will be save too.

Jesus is not one with Yahweh (see Mark 10:17-18, John 17:3, John 14:28, Luke 6:12, Mark13:32 etc). All the people (whetpost
Jews or not) before Jesus would be saved if and only if they practice Islam(i:e if they submit to the will of Yahweh).

tintingz:


But I will say the people before Jesus were practicing Judaism so according to their belief they are save.

You don't need to say anything. The sincere followers of Moses before Jesus practice Islam(submission to will of God) not Judaism.

tintingz:


With what did you falsify all other Faiths? This is Hokum Nonsense!

With their failure to premises 1 and 2 in my original post

tintingz:


Every faith claim to be right and preach salvation, they all believe their God sent them with their religions, no religion is superior and can use it sentiments to falsify another faith. It's like saying Arsenal is the right football club so therefore Chelsea is a false football club.

As far as you know. Scrutinize the religious scriptures very well, you will discover that all the religions in the world never claim that religion originate from God except Islam.

tintingz:


Islam is under the category along side all other religions, there's nothing special about it, other religions don't give a damn about Islam, infact the religion(Islam) to them is false!

But the fact that they believe Islam to be false does not really make it to be false

tintingz:


This is a lie. To be a Muslim is not about believing in God, it's about believing in a specific deity founded in Arabia, and one must believe in Muhammad, people before Muhammad don't even know about Islam, they don't practice Islam nor Allah sent prophets to all the nation, they are just lies and fairytales

If what you are claiming is true, then why did Qur'an called Abraham (that came before Muhammad) a Muslim if believing in Muhammad is absolutely a necessary condition for any one to become Muslim ?

tintingz:



Have you read other religion scriptures to know if their God didn't mention the name of the religion? What has name even got to do with the validity of a religion?

It is left for you to bring up the verses that show the name of their religions in their scriptures.

All other names of religions have no reasonable meaning except Islam which means submission to the will of God at any point in time. So names are very important when considering the validity of a religion because God would never give an unreasonable name to only religion approved by Him.

@ tintingz

Do you really believe in existence of God ?

Abdulgaffar22:

Thanks for not denying the truth as you have done up there

What's the truth?

Jesus is not one with Yahweh (see Mark 10:17-18, John 17:3, John 14:28, Luke 6:12, Mark13:32 etc). All the people (whetpost
Jews or not) before Jesus would be saved if and only if they practice Islam(i:e if they submit to the will of Yahweh).

According to Christian belief, Jesus is one with Yahweh since old testament.

Jesus came before Islam, Yahweh has nothing to do with Islam, no one practiced Islam until Muhammad came, Yahweh is a Jewish deity.

You don't need to say anything. The sincere followers of Moses before Jesus practice Islam(submission to will of God) not Judaism.

Can you provide evidence the people before Jesus practiced Islam?

With their failure to premises 1 and 2 in my original post

The premises are nonsensical.

As far as you know. Scrutinize the religious scriptures very well, you will discover that all the religions in the world never claim that religion originate from God except Islam.

Vishnu is the God of Hindus, are you saying Vishnu didn't sent down the Religion to them?

But the fact that they believe Islam to be false does not really make it to be false

And it also goes reversed, the fact that you believe other religions are false does not really make it false!

If what you are claiming is true, then why did Qur'an called Abraham (that came before Muhammad) a Muslim if believing in Muhammad is absolutely a necessary condition for any one to become Muslim ?

Lol, are you saying i should confirm your claim from a book that promote your religion? This is circular reasoning fallacy!

It's true Superman can fly because DC comics said so. Is this logical to you?

It is left for you to bring up the verses that show the name of their religions in their scriptures.

No, it's not left for me to do that, you made a claim then provide your prove.

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat "the burden of the proof lies upon him who affirms, not him who denies"

All other names of religions have no reasonable meaning except Islam which means submission to the will of God at any point in time. So names are very important when considering the validity of a religion because God would never give an unreasonable name to only religion approved by Him.

The names of various Religions have meanings to their adherents.

Islam is submission to the will of Allah, so, what's special about it?

Buddha means someone who's awaken, doesn't this make more sense that submitting to some imaginary master in the sky?

Abdulgaffar22:
@ tintingz

Do you really believe in existence of God ?

No.

Then what do you to have to say about what is written below;





According to the atheists, nature is all that exist; there is no any supernatural being.
But if nature is all that exist and nothing can give to itself what it does not possess, then what causes the nature to possess some AMAZING FEATURES which are no where to be found in the same nature in the past ?

In fact, the entire story of atheism is a series of miraculous events.

Miracle No 1; lifeless and physical nature is blind, yet after some billions of years, some creatures that can see suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention.


Miracle No 2; lifeless and physical nature is deaf, yet after some billions of years, some creatures that can hear suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention


Miracle No 3; lifeless and physical nature is dumb, yet after some billions of years, some creatures that can talk and speak different languages suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention.


Miracle No 4; lifeless and physical nature cannot move voluntarily and controllably yet after some billions of years, some creatures that can move voluntarily and controllably suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention.


Miracle No 5; lifeless and physical nature can not experience any emotional feelings yet after some billions of years, some creatures that can experience feelings like love, hatred, anger, happiness, sadness (etc) suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention.



Miracle No 6; lifeless and physical nature cannot think yet after some billions of years, some creatures that can think logically and formulate a rational argument suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention.


Miracle No 7; lifeless and physical nature has no knowledge about itself yet after some billions of years, some creatures that possesed every aspect of knowledge about nature suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention.
You will notice that the only factor responsible for all the miraculous events taking place in an atheistic world is a VERY LONG TIME (like billions of years).
So according to the atheists, given enough time;

A blind entity can see without any external intervention


A deaf entity can hear without any external intervention.


A dumb entity can speak different languages without any external intervention.


A motionless entity can move voluntarily and controllably without any external intervention


An emotionless entity can become emotional without any external intervention


An unthinkable entity can become thinkable without any external intervention


A completely ignorant entity can become knowledgeable without any external intervention


See the series of miraculous events that atheists must believe for rejecting the belief in existence of God . Yet they will be blaming and mocking those who believe in God

Abdulgaffar22:
Then what do you to have to say about what is written below;





According to the atheists, nature is all that exist; there is no any supernatural being.
But if nature is all that exist and nothing can give to itself what it does not possess, then what causes the nature to possess some AMAZING FEATURES which are no where to be found in the same nature in the past ?

In fact, the entire story of atheism is a series of miraculous events.

Miracle No 1; lifeless and physical nature is blind, yet after some billions of years, some creatures that can see suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention.


Miracle No 2; lifeless and physical nature is deaf, yet after some billions of years, some creatures that can hear suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention


Miracle No 3; lifeless and physical nature is dumb, yet after some billions of years, some creatures that can talk and speak different languages suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention.


Miracle No 4; lifeless and physical nature cannot move voluntarily and controllably yet after some billions of years, some creatures that can move voluntarily and controllably suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention.


Miracle No 5; lifeless and physical nature can not experience any emotional feelings yet after some billions of years, some creatures that can experience feelings like love, hatred, anger, happiness, sadness (etc) suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention.



Miracle No 6; lifeless and physical nature cannot think yet after some billions of years, some creatures that can think logically and formulate a rational argument suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention.


Miracle No 7; lifeless and physical nature has no knowledge about itself yet after some billions of years, some creatures that possesed every aspect of knowledge about nature suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention.
You will notice that the only factor responsible for all the miraculous events taking place in an atheistic world is a VERY LONG TIME (like billions of years).
So according to the atheists, given enough time;

A blind entity can see without any external intervention


A deaf entity can hear without any external intervention.


A dumb entity can speak different languages without any external intervention.


A motionless entity can move voluntarily and controllably without any external intervention


An emotionless entity can become emotional without any external intervention


An unthinkable entity can become thinkable without any external intervention


A completely ignorant entity can become knowledgeable without any external intervention


See the series of miraculous events that atheists must believe for rejecting the belief in existence of God . Yet they will be blaming and mocking those who believe in God

You're simply appealing to Ignorance, using "god of the gap" fallacy.

tintingz:


You're simply appealing to Ignorance, using "god of the gap" fallacy.

"God of the gaps" is a theological perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence.
"God of the gaps" simply says ignorant people used what is yet to be known in science as an evidence for the existence of God.

According to this theological perspective, when scientific knowledge is complete, then people would no longer invoke God as an explanation for mysterious things.

But I am telling you now; even if our knowledge about the nature is 100% complete and there is no longer gaps in our scientific knowledge, then another mystery has just started. This is where MIRACLE NO 7 comes in;
" Lifeless and physical nature has NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ITSELF yet after some billions of years, some creatures that POSSESSD EVERY ASPECT OF KNOWLEDGE about nature suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention "

Let us consider the the theory of knowledge. In any aspect of knowledge, there is always a "KNOWER" and the "KNOWN".

A "KNOWER" is the person that know something while the "KNOWN" is that very something that is known by a KNOWER .

For example, Mathematician is the 'KNOWER while mathematics is the 'KNOWN'.

Astronomer is the KNOWER while astronomy is the KNOWN.

Geographer is the KNOWER while geography is the KNOWN.

As you can see from above, there is always a DEMARCATION between the "knower" and the "known".

Therefore, if our knowledge about the nature is 100% complete and there is no longer gaps in our scientific knowledge, then we still need to identify the "KNOWER" and the "KNOWN".

We are very sure that the KNOWN is the nature. But who is the KNOWER ?

As we have established above, there is always a DEMARCATION between the " KNOWER" and the "KNOWN".

Therefore, if the KNOWN is the nature, then the KNOWER cannot be the nature.
And if the KNOWER cannot be the nature, then it has be a supernatural entity (human soul or spirit).
The only reasonable source for this supernatural entity is God

Therefore, even if the gaps in our scientific knowledge disappear, the evidence for the existence of God can never disappear.

tintingz:


You're simply appealing to Ignorance, using "god of the gap" fallacy.

"God of the gaps" is a theological perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence.
"God of the gaps" simply says ignorant people used what is yet to be known in science as an evidence for the existence of God.

According to this theological perspective, when scientific knowledge is complete, then people would no longer invoke God as an explanation for mysterious things.

But I am telling you now; even if our knowledge about the nature is 100% complete and there is no longer gaps in our scientific knowledge, then another mystery has just started. This is where MIRACLE NO 7 comes in;
" Lifeless and physical nature has NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ITSELF yet after some billions of years, some creatures that POSSESSD EVERY ASPECT OF KNOWLEDGE about nature suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention "

Let us consider the the theory of knowledge. In any aspect of knowledge, there is always a "KNOWER" and the "KNOWN".

A "KNOWER" is the person that know something while the "KNOWN" is that very something that is known by a KNOWER .

For example, Mathematician is the 'KNOWER while mathematics is the 'KNOWN'.

Astronomer is the KNOWER while astronomy is the KNOWN.

Geographer is the KNOWER while geography is the KNOWN.

As you can see from above, there is always a DEMARCATION between the "knower" and the "known".

Therefore, if our knowledge about the nature is 100% complete and there is no longer gaps in our scientific knowledge, then we still need to identify the "KNOWER" and the "KNOWN".

We are very sure that the KNOWN is the nature. But who is the KNOWER ?

As we have established above, there is always a DEMARCATION between the " KNOWER" and the "KNOWN".

Therefore, if the KNOWN is the nature, then the KNOWER cannot be the nature.
And if the KNOWER cannot be the nature, then it must be a supernatural entity (human soul or spirit).
The only reasonable source for this supernatural entity is God

Therefore, even if the gaps in our scientific knowledge disappear, the evidence for the existence of God can never disappear.

Abdulgaffar22:


"God of the gaps" is a theological perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence.
"God of the gaps" simply says ignorant people used what is yet to be known in science as an evidence for the existence of God.

According to this theological perspective, when scientific knowledge is complete, then people would no longer invoke God as an explanation for mysterious things.

But I am telling you now; even if our knowledge about the nature is 100% complete and there is no longer gaps in our scientific knowledge, then another mystery has just started. This is where MIRACLE NO 7 comes in;
" Lifeless and physical nature has NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ITSELF yet after some billions of years, some creatures that POSSESSD EVERY ASPECT OF KNOWLEDGE about nature suddenly emerged from the same very nature WITHOUT any external intervention "

Let us consider the the theory of knowledge. In any aspect of knowledge, there is always a "KNOWER" and the "KNOWN".

A "KNOWER" is the person that know something while the "KNOWN" is that very something that is known by a KNOWER .

For example, Mathematician is the 'KNOWER while mathematics is the 'KNOWN'.

Astronomer is the KNOWER while astronomy is the KNOWN.

Geographer is the KNOWER while geography is the KNOWN.

As you can see from above, there is always a DEMARCATION between the "knower" and the "known".

Therefore, if our knowledge about the nature is 100% complete and there is no longer gaps in our scientific knowledge, then we still need to identify the "KNOWER" and the "KNOWN".

We are very sure that the KNOWN is the nature. But who is the KNOWER ?

As we have established above, there is always a DEMARCATION between the " KNOWER" and the "KNOWN".

Therefore, if the KNOWN is the nature, then the KNOWER cannot be the nature.
And if the KNOWER cannot be the nature, then it has be a supernatural entity (human soul or spirit).
The only reasonable source for this supernatural entity is God

Therefore, even if the gaps in our scientific knowledge disappear, the evidence for the existence of God can never disappear.

Your logic is hokum!

If we know and can explain 100% things in our universe then we have know all, no more gaps, it's all closed, God is meaningless and completely useless if he's not important among the gaps.

Can you tell us why the knower cannot be nature, why must it be a spirit and therefore call it source a God?

Are you not falling into the same fallacy in my premise and contradicting yourself?

tintingz:
Your logic is hokum!

If we know and can explain 100% things in our universe then we have know all, no more gaps, it's all closed, God is meaningless and completely useless if he's not important among the gaps

Can you tell us why the knower cannot be nature, why must it be a spirit and therefore call it source a God?

Are you not falling into the same fallacy in my premise and contradicting yourself?

The "KNOWER" and the "KNOWN" will continue to exist even if we know all and there is no more gaps in our scientific knowledge.

There are TWO LOGICAL reasons why the KNOWER cannot be inside the nature ;

1. If nature is all that exist and nature is not a KNOWER ( i:e a knowledgeable entity) in the PAST, then it can never be a KNOWER at the PRESENT. This is because nothing can give to itself what it doesn't have.


2. For a nature to CHANGE from none knowledgeable entity to knowledgeable entity (i:e KNOWER) there must be an EXTERNAL CAUSE (remember that for every change there must be a sufficient cause) . Since nature is a closed system according to the atheists, then there is no room for such external cause. Therefore, such a change cannot occur.


Therefore, if the KNOWER cannot be inside the nature, then it must be something OUTSIDE the nature. Hence the KNOWER is a supernatural entity. The only reasonable source for this supernatural entity is God.

Abdulgaffar22:


The "KNOWER" and the "KNOWN" will continue to exist even if we know all and there is no more gaps in our scientific knowledge.

There are TWO LOGICAL reasons why the KNOWER cannot be inside the nature ;

1. If nature is all that exist and nature is not a KNOWER ( i:e a knowledgeable entity) in the PAST, then it can never be a KNOWER at the PRESENT. This is because nothing can give to itself what it doesn't have.


2. For a nature to CHANGE from none knowledgeable entity to knowledgeable entity (i:e KNOWER) there must be an EXTERNAL CAUSE (remember that for every change there must be a sufficient cause) . Since nature is a closed system according to the atheists, then there is no room for such external cause. Therefore, such a change cannot occur.


Therefore, if the KNOWER cannot be inside the nature, then it must be something OUTSIDE the nature. Hence the KNOWER is a supernatural entity. The only reasonable source for this supernatural entity is God.

First of all, we don't know if there is another dimensional space or not.

Ok, to point how your flaws in your argument using your omnipotent and omniscient deity to your argument.

- So if we assume God is the knower here, then God knowledge evolve with time, God learn from prior events? And note, change doesn't necessarily need an "external cause" it can need "cause or causes", you don't have to assume "external" to it.

- And secondly, if God is outside the universe then how come he intervenes to a very tiny dust in the milky way galaxy earth?

- Thirdly, if God is outside the universe doing his thing then he must be in another space and time bound to a law or the universe is infinite and God is bound to it.