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Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me - Religion (18) - Nairaland

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Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Hairyrapunzel: 6:06pm On Dec 14, 2019
Maximus69:


I should answer for you not to die abi? cheesy cheesy cheesy cheesy cheesy

So you still don't have an answer or rather your gb has no answer to that question.
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 6:16pm On Dec 14, 2019
Barristter07:


You don't get? Spirit of man is not a person. Likewise Spirit of God , thats why Jesus said Only the Father knows. It's not a person.
The spirit of man is not a person but the Spirit of God is as evidenced by the many emotions, deeds and characters of His all through scriptures. It is very telling that the Spirit of God works with believers on the earth today whilst the Father is in heaven. This cannot be said about humans whose spirits reside within their being.
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Nobody: 6:32pm On Dec 14, 2019
chrmn1:

that's what I've been trying to say. The truine nature of man reflects God but not totally. The spirit of man is in man but the Spirit of God may be on the earth whilst the Father is in heaven.

When next you smash a mosquito, know now that a spirit comes out it and it's the same as that of man! Ecclesiastes 3:19-20

God himself is a SPIRIT {John 4:24} so he only sends out a powerful force to accomplish his purposes, that force is not an entity on it's own.

Angels are spirit beings too, but unlike our heavenly father, they can't send out such active force, they must use their very existence to carry out any task as spirits!

Jesus is also an angel too!

Note how a lady without notice tapped from Jesus' power, since Jesus is NOT the Almighty God he realized that power went out of his body without his concent!

God's holy spirit devoured Abel's sacrifice, caused and stopped the deluge in Noah's day, made Abraham and Sarah to have a child in their old age, parted the red sea, anointed Jesus at baptism, anointed over 120 persons at Pentecost just to mention few!

So God's holy spirit is not a person but what he uses to accomplish his own purposes.

You use each part of your body to do certain things, the same way God does whatever he wishes with his holy spirit!

The term HOLY simply means PURE, so don't expect this same spirit to do things that's NOT in accord with God's will, that's why you need to study your Bible to know what God's will is, so that you won't be deceived when demons are doing their works and pretending it's the work of God's holy spirit! Matthew 7:21-23, 2Corinthians 11:14

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Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 10:40pm On Dec 14, 2019
Maximus69:


When next you smash a mosquito, know now that a spirit comes out it and it's the same as that of man! Ecclesiastes 3:19-20

God himself is a SPIRIT {John 4:24} so he only sends out a powerful force to accomplish his purposes, that force is not an entity on it's own.

Angels are spirit beings too, but unlike our heavenly father, they can't send out such active force, they must use their very existence to carry out any task as spirits!

Jesus is also an angel too!

Note how a lady without notice tapped from Jesus' power, since Jesus is NOT the Almighty God he realized that power went out of his body without his concent!

God's holy spirit devoured Abel's sacrifice, caused and stopped the deluge in Noah's day, made Abraham and Sarah to have a child in their old age, parted the red sea, anointed Jesus at baptism, anointed over 120 persons at Pentecost just to mention few!

So God's holy spirit is not a person but what he uses to accomplish his own purposes.

You use each part of your body to do certain things, the same way God does whatever he wishes with his holy spirit!

The term HOLY simply means PURE, so don't expect this same spirit to do things that's NOT in accord with God's will, that's why you need to study your Bible to know what God's will is, so that you won't be deceived when demons are doing their works and pretending it's the work of God's holy spirit! Matthew 7:21-23, 2Corinthians 11:14

"For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from pthe dust, and to dust all return. Who knows whether qthe spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth"

You are quoting from Ecclesiastes but left out verse 21 above. But I'm not even sure how that applies to the discussion. The bible says the Spirit does all those things you mention. But more than that scriptures show that he has capacity to do things attributable to persons.

"when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come." (John 16:13)

"All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually has he wills." (1 Co 12:11)

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Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Nobody: 3:19am On Dec 15, 2019
chrmn1:


"For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from pthe dust, and to dust all return. Who knows whether qthe spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth"

You are quoting from Ecclesiastes but left out verse 21 above. But I'm not even sure how that applies to the discussion. The bible says the Spirit does all those things you mention. But more than that scriptures show that he has capacity to do things attributable to persons.

"when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come." (John 16:13)

"All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually has he wills."
(1 Co 12:11)

Jesus need to personalise the holy spirit to help his friends realizes how active it could be. In the same manner Jesus personalised "WISDOM" to help them understand that they can identify the group possessing this quality as if members of such a group are born to the same person! Luke 7:35

But if you compare Jesus' comment to that of Apostle Paul who is now (a born again Christian) writing letters under the inspiration of this same spirit, Paul reasoned with his fellow believers that God's holy spirit could be active in many ways! 1Corinthians 12:12-13

As for Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 the scriptures stated specifically that the spirit (breath) of all creatures comes from the same place and it all returned to the same place!
Verse 21 only makes us to understand that we shouldn't think the breath(spirit) of man is going to heaven while that of beasts goes to the grave.

All are from the same place and all returned to the same place, the only advantage humans have is the type of works we do {Matthew 7:23} if it's virtuous then we have a hope of coming back to live again! Ecclesiastes 3:22 compared to Job 14:14-15 and John 5:28-29

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by BIBLESPEAKS(m): 7:41am On Dec 15, 2019
Outline of Scriptures Showing That Jehovah The Father is God Alone.

1. God Alone = Jehovah (YHWH in Hebrew text) - Ps. 83:18; 86:10; Is. 37:16, 20 (and numerous Israelite personal names like 'Elijah' which mean ' God is Jehovah).
Psalms 83:18 "That they may know that thou
alone , whose name is Jehovah (YHWH), Art the Most High over all the earth." - ASV.
Ps. 86:10 "For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: Thou art God alone . 11 Teach me thy way, O Jehovah (YHWH); I will walk in thy truth: Unite my heart to fear thy name." - ASV.
Is. 37:16 " O Jehovah of hosts, the God of Israel, that sittest [above] the cherubim, thou art the God, even thou alone , of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth." - ASV.
.......................................................
2. Only Jehovah = the Father in heaven -Ps. 2:7 (Acts 13:33); Is. 64:8 (and numerous Israelite personal names like 'Abijah' which mean 'The
Father is Jehovah')
Psalms 2:7 "I will tell of the decree: Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son ; This day have I begotten thee. - ASV .
Acts 13:33 "That God hath fulfilled the same unto our children, in that he raised up Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son , this day have I begotten thee. - ASV.
Isaiah 64:8 "But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father ; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand."
But there are no personal names in Scripture which mean "Jehovah is the Son" or "Jehovah is the Messiah," or anything else to indicate that the firstborn son of God is Jehovah or is God.
.....................................................
3. The Father (Jehovah) is the God of the Messiah
Micah 5:2-4 " 2 And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth--to be ruler in Israel, And his comings forth [are] of old, From the days of antiquity. 3 Therefore he doth give them out till the time She who bringeth forth hath brought forth, And the remnant of his brethren return to the sons of Israel. 4 And he hath stood and delighted in the strength of Jehovah, In the excellency of the name of Jehovah his God - Young's.
Rom. 15:6 "so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord
Jesus Christ." - NASB.
Revelation 1:6 "and He [Jesus Christ in heaven] has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father --to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen." - NASB.
2 Corinthians 11:31 " The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, He who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying." - NASB.
................................................
4. The Father (Jehovah - see above) = only true God
John 17:1, 3 " Father , .... 3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. - NASB.
The Father (Jehovah) = only God for Christians - 1 Cor. 8:6
1 Corinthians 8:6 "yet for us there is one God , the
Father , from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." - RSV.
1 Corinthians 8:6 "yet there is for us only one God , the Father , who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live." - TEV.
Ephesians 4:6 " one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." - NASB.

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Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 7:41am On Dec 15, 2019
Maximus69:


Jesus need to personalise the holy spirit to help his friends realizes how active it could be. In the same manner Jesus personalised "WISDOM" to help them understand that they can identify the group possessing this quality as if members of such a group are born to the same person! Luke 7:35

But if you compare Jesus' comment to that of Apostle Paul who is now (a born again Christian) writing letters under the inspiration of this same spirit, Paul reasoned with his fellow believers that God's holy spirit could be active in many ways! 1Corinthians 12:12-13

As for Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 the scriptures stated specifically that the spirit (breath) of all creatures comes from the same place and it all returned to the same place!
Verse 21 only makes us to understand that we shouldn't think the breath(spirit) of man is going to heaven while that of beasts goes to the grave.

All are from the same place and all returned to the same place, the only advantage humans have is the type of works we do {Matthew 7:23} if it's virtuous then we have a hope of coming back to live again! Ecclesiastes 3:22 compared to Job 14:14-15 and John 5:28-29




Yes you can personalize non living things in a sense but like in one of the scriptures I pointed to you, the scriptures show that the Spirit has an initiative and knows so much more than he reveals to the church but only reveals per time the bit that the Father would have him reveal.

"He that searches the hearts knows what is in the mind of the Spirit" (Romans 8:27)

These are activities of persons. There is no scripture that specifically says the Spirit ain't a person.

"For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth"

Solomon was saying that humans and animals have a common source of vitality I.e. they were all activated by the breath of God. He says man has no advantage over beasts because man's body and animal's bodies return to dust but in talking specifically about the spirit of man/animals he makes a distinction but he is not even sure. He says "who knows". Do not base a theology on "who knows"

Lets see John 5:28-29: "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." He not only mentions people that have done good but also people that have done evil.

Also the same Ecclesiastes 12:7 reads:
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by BIBLESPEAKS(m): 7:55am On Dec 15, 2019
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Nobody: 8:31am On Dec 15, 2019
chrmn1:

Yes you can personalize non living things in a sense but like in one of the scriptures I pointed to you, the scriptures show that the Spirit has an initiative and knows so much more than he reveals to the church but only reveals per time the bit that the Father would have him reveal.

"He that searches the hearts knows what is in the mind of the Spirit" (Romans 8:27)

These are activities of persons. There is no scripture that specifically says the Spirit ain't a person

"For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth"

Solomon was saying that humans and animals have a common source of vitality I.e. they were all activated by the breath of God. He says man has no advantage over beasts because man's body and animal's bodies return to dust but in talking specifically about the spirit of man/animals he makes a distinction but he is not even sure. He says "who knows". Do not base a theology on "who knows"

Lets see John 5:28-29: "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." He not only mentions people that have done good but also people that have done evil.

Also the same Ecclesiastes 12:7 reads:
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

You're open-minded Sir, so i'll implore you to compare each text in different versions of the Bible to fully grasp what the author had in mind.

The Bible was originally written in three languages, the first 39 books were written in Hebrew and Aramaic, while the remaining 27 were written in Greek.

Each translators have to go and study this three languages, cultures, quotes and proverbs in other to fully understand any document written in those languages. For instance i'm a Yoruba man from Ogun, before a foreigner can translate any document in my dialect successfully, he/she needs to interact with my people and carefully study our quotes and proverbial expressions.

The Bible text translated as SPIRIT has various meaning based on the topic the writers had in mind, that's why it's advisable not to concentrate on one particular version to judge what others believe regarding the Bible texts!

*There is no scripture that specifically say that God's holy spirit is NOT a person neither is there any that say it is. Each of us is just speculating based on our past religious view regarding what God's holy spirit stands for.

God bless you Sir!

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 9:09am On Dec 15, 2019
Maximus69:


You're open-minded Sir, so i'll implore you to compare each text in different versions of the Bible to fully grasp what the author had in mind.

The Bible was originally written in three languages, the first 39 books were written in Hebrew and Aramaic, while the remaining 27 were written in Greek.

Each translators have to go and study this three languages, cultures, quotes and proverbs in other to fully understand any document written in those languages. For instance i'm a Yoruba man from Ogun, before a foreigner can translate any document in my dialect successfully, he/she needs to interact with my people and carefully study our quotes and proverbial expressions.

The Bible text translated as SPIRIT has various meaning based on the topic the writers had in mind, that's why it's advisable not to concentrate on one particular version to judge what others believe regarding the Bible texts!

*There is no scripture that specifically say that God's holy spirit is NOT a person neither is there any that say it is. Each of us is just speculating based on our past religious view regarding what God's holy spirit stands for.

God bless you Sir!

God bless you bro. You see at the end of the day I hope we find agreement but even if we do not, your prayer for me should be "Father open his eyes" if I am wrong and the same prayer I would extend to God for you if you are wrong.

My understanding from scriptutes is that indeed non living things can be personalized just as you stated but even the scriptute you pointed, we can easily intetpret it as "wisdom is justified by its fruits or results" but we cannot do same for some of those scriptures on the Holy Spirit.

Again this is my understanding.

Stay blessed!
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by BIBLESPEAKS(m): 10:17am On Dec 15, 2019
Ihedinobi3:

Hi. Your profile suggests that your are a Jehovah's Witness, so you are almost certainly just looking for an argument to prove that your position that Jesus Christ is not God is true.

I think that such a conversation would be a waste of time and energy, but in the event that you may be willing to consider that your position may be wrong, and also for the sake of other readers, I will answer you.

To begin, the three verses say that God the Father Who once communicated to human beings through human intermediaries called prophets has now given us His Last Word, so to speak, through His Son Who is such a perfect representation of Him as to seal up all His Communication to man.

When this Son of His had fulfilled His Mission to purify human beings from their sins, He was received back into Heaven to sit down at the Father's Right Hand.

Now, I would like to add a bit more of that chapter for useful context:

[6]And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "And let all the angels of God worship Him."
[7]And of the angels He says, "Who makes His angels winds, And His ministers a flame of fire."
[8]But of the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.
[9]"You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness above Your companions."
[10]And, "You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Your hands;
[11]They will perish, but You remain; And they all will become old like a garment,
[12]And like a mantle You will roll them up; Like a garment they will also be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end."

Hebrews 1:6-12 NASB

As you can see, the angels are commanded by the Father to worship the Son (v.6). Since only God must be worshipped, this is a clear Scriptural witness to the Deity of the Son.

You can also see that the Son is being contrasted with the angels here (vv.7-8 ), so that it makes no sense to think that He is or was ever one of them.

You should also note that from verses 8 to 12, God the Father Who is the Subject of Hebrews 1 is addressing the Son as God and speaking of His timelessness and eternity as well as His absolute superiority to all the created universe.

These things are only a drop in the bucket of staggering Scriptural evidence of the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

The History of the development of the Trinity Doctrine.

It is certain that, in spite of the popularity of such concepts as Trinity in the false religions surrounding them, the faithful Jewish people and prophets of the Old Testament never accepted a three-in-one God. It is true that the unfaithful among the Israelites often borrowed pagan gods, pagan customs, and pagan concepts (including Baal and Astarte) and added them to their God-given religion. But there is no record (scriptural or secular) of a trinity concept even among them.

Faithful Israel had only one God and He was always a single individual named Jehovah (possibly pronounced "Yahweh" or "Yehowah" in Hebrew - see the PRONOUNCE study), their Father in heaven - (Deut. 6:4, 5; Is. 64:8; Ps. 83:16-18). That is the concept known as monotheism (meaning "one person alone is God" .

"The religion of the [Old Testament] and Judaism is monotheistic and personal. 1. In the [Old Testament] the words el, eloah, and elohim , from related roots, are generic designations of God. Alongside and alternating with them stands the
individual, personal name Yahweh [Jehovah] ." -
The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology , vol. 2, p. 67.

Professor of ecclesiastical history L. L. Paine L. L. Paine, A Critical History Of The Evolution Of Trinitarianism , p. 4, tells us :
"The Old Testament is strictly monotheistic. God is a single personal being . The idea that a trinity is to be found there ... is utterly without foundation." [ 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 ]
And Lohse states:
"From the very beginning, of course, Christians not only believed in God in the sense in which the Jews did , but they also believed in Jesus Christ ." - p. 38 , A Short History of Christian Doctrine , Bernard Lohse, 1985, Fortress Press.

This, then, was the faith that Jesus passed on to his Apostles. This is the truth that the Apostles passed on to their followers (who lived and taught this very same concept up to at least 150 A. D.).
"In this period [1st century A.D.] churches were still regarded as synagogues, whose members prayed three times a day and fasted twice a week like Jews... They professed monotheism in the same terms as did the Jews . .... Within individual congregations they continued to think, argue, and act like their Jewish counterparts." - pp. 121-122,
The Rise of Christianity, W. H. C. Frend (trinitarian), 1985, Fortress Press.

It was not until over 300 years after the death of Jesus that the trinity concept was fully developed, refined, and officially and finally accepted by Christendom through a decree by the Church at Rome.
" Speculative thought began to analyze the divine nature until in the 4th century an elaborate
theory of a threefoldness in God appears. In this Nicene or Athanasian form of thought God is said to consist of three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all equally eternal, powerful and glorious." -
Encyclopedia Americana, 1944, v. 6, p. 619, "Christianity".

Yes, finally, by the end of the 4th century A.D., the trinity idea had been fully developed. The Roman Church had officially decreed the following points as being necessary for all Christians to believe:
There are said to be three divine persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - in the
Godhead .
(1) Each of these separate persons is said to be
eternal, none coming before or after the other in time.
(2) Each is said to be almighty , with none greater or lesser than the other.
(3) Each is said to be omniscient , knowing all things.
(4) Each is said to be true God .
(5) However, it is said that there are not three Gods but only one God .
But we should understand that in the more than 2,000 years from Abraham to the death of the last Apostle, John, Judaeo-Christianity had only one God, Jehovah ("YHWH" , the Father
alone . (Cf. Ps. 83:18, KJV , ASV; Is. 63:16, ASV;
and John 17:1, 3 - compare Jer.10:10, ASV).
But what about the powerful religious systems around them which controlled or profoundly influenced the entire known civilized world?

Babylon, Egypt, India, Greece etc. all had Trinitarian concepts in their worship of many Gods.

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Nobody: 11:21am On Dec 15, 2019
chrmn1:

God bless you bro. You see at the end of the day I hope we find agreement but even if we do not, your prayer for me should be "Father open his eyes" if I am wrong and the same prayer I would extend to God for you if you are wrong.

My understanding from scriptutes is that indeed non living things can be personalized just as you stated but even the scriptute you pointed, we can easily intetpret it as "wisdom is justified by its fruits or results" but we cannot do same for some of those scriptures on the Holy Spirit.

Again this is my understanding.

Stay blessed!

Thanks! smiley
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Ihedinobi3: 1:12pm On Dec 15, 2019
BIBLESPEAKS:


The History of the development of the Trinity Doctrine.

It is certain that, in spite of the popularity of such concepts as Trinity in the false religions surrounding them, the faithful Jewish people and prophets of the Old Testament never accepted a three-in-one God. It is true that the unfaithful among the Israelites often borrowed pagan gods, pagan customs, and pagan concepts (including Baal and Astarte) and added them to their God-given religion. But there is no record (scriptural or secular) of a trinity concept even among them.

Faithful Israel had only one God and He was always a single individual named Jehovah (possibly pronounced "Yahweh" or "Yehowah" in Hebrew - see the PRONOUNCE study), their Father in heaven - (Deut. 6:4, 5; Is. 64:8; Ps. 83:16-18). That is the concept known as monotheism (meaning "one person alone is God" .

"The religion of the [Old Testament] and Judaism is monotheistic and personal. 1. In the [Old Testament] the words el, eloah, and elohim , from related roots, are generic designations of God. Alongside and alternating with them stands the
individual, personal name Yahweh [Jehovah] ." -
The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology , vol. 2, p. 67.

Professor of ecclesiastical history L. L. Paine L. L. Paine, A Critical History Of The Evolution Of Trinitarianism , p. 4, tells us :
"The Old Testament is strictly monotheistic. God is a single personal being . The idea that a trinity is to be found there ... is utterly without foundation." [ 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 ]
And Lohse states:
"From the very beginning, of course, Christians not only believed in God in the sense in which the Jews did , but they also believed in Jesus Christ ." - p. 38 , A Short History of Christian Doctrine , Bernard Lohse, 1985, Fortress Press.

This, then, was the faith that Jesus passed on to his Apostles. This is the truth that the Apostles passed on to their followers (who lived and taught this very same concept up to at least 150 A. D.).
"In this period [1st century A.D.] churches were still regarded as synagogues, whose members prayed three times a day and fasted twice a week like Jews... They professed monotheism in the same terms as did the Jews . .... Within individual congregations they continued to think, argue, and act like their Jewish counterparts." - pp. 121-122,
The Rise of Christianity, W. H. C. Frend (trinitarian), 1985, Fortress Press.

It was not until over 300 years after the death of Jesus that the trinity concept was fully developed, refined, and officially and finally accepted by Christendom through a decree by the Church at Rome.
" Speculative thought began to analyze the divine nature until in the 4th century an elaborate
theory of a threefoldness in God appears. In this Nicene or Athanasian form of thought God is said to consist of three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all equally eternal, powerful and glorious." -
Encyclopedia Americana, 1944, v. 6, p. 619, "Christianity".

Yes, finally, by the end of the 4th century A.D., the trinity idea had been fully developed. The Roman Church had officially decreed the following points as being necessary for all Christians to believe:
There are said to be three divine persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - in the
Godhead .
(1) Each of these separate persons is said to be
eternal, none coming before or after the other in time.
(2) Each is said to be almighty , with none greater or lesser than the other.
(3) Each is said to be omniscient , knowing all things.
(4) Each is said to be true God .
(5) However, it is said that there are not three Gods but only one God .
But we should understand that in the more than 2,000 years from Abraham to the death of the last Apostle, John, Judaeo-Christianity had only one God, Jehovah ("YHWH" , the Father
alone . (Cf. Ps. 83:18, KJV , ASV; Is. 63:16, ASV;
and John 17:1, 3 - compare Jer.10:10, ASV).
But what about the powerful religious systems around them which controlled or profoundly influenced the entire known civilized world?

Babylon, Egypt, India, Greece etc. all had Trinitarian concepts in their worship of many Gods.
https://www.nairaland.com/5352739/please-need-trinitarians-explain-hebrews#81157181
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Barristter07: 10:07am On Dec 17, 2019
chrmn1:

The spirit of man is not a person but the Spirit of God is as evidenced by the many emotions, deeds and characters of His all through scriptures. It is very telling that the Spirit of God works with believers on the earth today whilst the Father is in heaven. This cannot be said about humans whose spirits reside within their being.

But it can know the things of a man, Isn't that personification ? You have answered your own questions regarding the spirit of God knowing , it's a personification . Not that it's a person

The point still remains that, The Dillema here is we must admit TWO PERSONS exist who knows if Holy spirit is a person , which would make Jesus a liar . He said the knowledge is reserved for the Father, but does SOMEONE else know ?

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Janosky: 11:17am On Dec 18, 2019
shadeyinka:


Lame argument of people with two gods.
Is any human called "a mighty god?"

Isa 44:6:
"Thus said the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God ."

Isa 44:8:
"Fear you not, neither be afraid: have not I told you from that time, and have declared it? you are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yes, there is no God; I know not any."

Isa 45:21:
"Tell you, and bring them near; yes, let them take counsel together: who has decla[b][/b]red this from ancient time? who has told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me."

Hos 13:4:
"Yet I am the LORD your God from the land of Egypt, and you shall know no god but me: for there is no savior beside me."

Hosea summarised it, there is no SAVIOUR beside me.

I rest my case!

Psalms 82:1,6.
" God standeth in the congregation of the
mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

6. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you
are children of the most High."

Hebrew 'EL' (God, god(s)) = Mighty One.
Man is a mighty God .
EL gibbowr is a title applied to man, Jesus and his Father, Yahweh.

****
Is the God of Isaiah 44:6,8 "I", or triune?

Is the God of Isaiah 44:8, 45:21 & Hosea13:4 "Me" or triune?
The "Me" in Isaiah44:8, 45:21 & Hosea13:4 is how many persons?

Triune pagan deity devotee pretending to be Christian...

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Hairyrapunzel: 12:38pm On Dec 18, 2019
Janosky:


Psalms 82:1,6.
" God standeth in the congregation of the
mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

6. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you
are children of the most High."

Hebrew 'EL' (God, god(s)) = Mighty One.
Man is a mighty God .
EL gibbowr is a title applied to man, Jesus and his Father, Yahweh.

****
Is the God of Isaiah 44:6,8 "I", or triune?

Is the God of Isaiah 44:8, 45:21 & Hosea13:4 "Me" or triune?
The "Me" in Isaiah44:8, 45:21 & Hosea13:4 is how many persons?

Triune pagan deity devotee pretending to be Christian...

Just like your pagan belief that your gb will go to heaven while you and the remaining followers will live forever on earth.
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by PrincewithGod(m): 2:30pm On Dec 18, 2019
A Doctrine that Unites and Divides
The doctrine of the Trinity has been called the most puzzling doctrine in the Christian faith and the central truth of the Christian faith. Which is it? Inscrutable puzzle or central truth? The answer is, both are true.

This doctrine unites all true Christians and separates us from those who are not Christian. You may believe and still not be a Christian, but if you deny this doctrine in your heart, you are not a Christian at all.

The Trinity is a doctrine that all Christians believe but no one really understands. That much should be clear from this message. If you try to explain the Trinity, you will lose your mind. But if you deny it, you will lose your soul.

Someone asked Daniel Webster, who happened to be a fervent Christian, "How can a man of your intellect believe in the Trinity?" "I do not pretend fully to understand the arithmetic of heaven now," he replied. That's a good phrase—the arithmetic of heaven.

The Trinity should cause us to bow in humble adoration before a God who is greater than our minds could ever comprehend.

Let us rejoice that we have a Triune God who has provided for a Trinitarian salvation. When we were lost in sin, our God acted in every Person of his being to save us. The Father gave the Son, the Son offered himself on the Cross, and the Holy Spirit brought us to Jesus. We were so lost that it took every member of the Godhead to save us.

In 1774 a man named Ignaz Franz wrote a hymn of praise to the Trinity: Holy God, We Praise Your Name. Verse three may serve as an apt conclusion to this message.

"Holy Father, Holy Son, Holy Spirit, Three we name you;
While in essence only one, undivided God we claim you.
Then, adoring, bend the knee, and confess the mystery."

Indeed it is a mystery, and with all the saints we bend the knee in worship before our great God—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

-Dr. Ray Pritchard is the president of Keep Believing Ministries.
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Janosky: 3:32pm On Dec 18, 2019
PrincewithGod:
A Doctrine that Unites and Divides
The doctrine of the Trinity has been called the most puzzling doctrine in the Christian faith and the central truth of the Christian faith. Which is it? Inscrutable puzzle or central truth? The answer is, both are true.

This doctrine unites all true Christians and separates us from those who are not Christian. You may believe and still not be a Christian, but if you deny this doctrine in your heart, you are not a Christian at all.

The Trinity is a doctrine that all Christians believe but no one really understands. That much should be clear from this message. If you try to explain the Trinity, you will lose your mind. But if you deny it, you will lose your soul.

Someone asked Daniel Webster, who happened to be a fervent Christian, "How can a man of your intellect believe in the Trinity?" "I do not pretend fully to understand the arithmetic of heaven now," he replied. That's a good phrase—the arithmetic of heaven.

The Trinity should cause us to bow in humble adoration before a God who is greater than our minds could ever comprehend.

Let us rejoice that we have a Triune God who has provided for a Trinitarian salvation. When we were lost in sin, our God acted in every Person of his being to save us. The Father gave the Son, the Son offered himself on the Cross, and the Holy Spirit brought us to Jesus. We were so lost that it took every member of the Godhead to save us.

In 1774 a man named Ignaz Franz wrote a hymn of praise to the Trinity: Holy God, We Praise Your Name. Verse three may serve as an apt conclusion to this message.

"Holy Father, Holy Son, Holy Spirit, Three we name you;
While in essence only one, undivided God we claim you.
Then, adoring, bend the knee, and confess the mystery."

Indeed it is a mystery, and with all the saints we bend the knee in worship before our great God—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

-Dr. Ray Pritchard is the president of Keep Believing Ministries.

Dey there dey deceive yourself....
Rev 3:5,12 and John20:17,30,31,the words of Jesus Christ in heaven and earth are irrevocable truth throwing the Trinity FRAUD into the sewage dump.

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by BlueAngel444: 12:19pm On Dec 19, 2019
chrmn1:

He would always rever the Father. I would not expect the man Jesus to do otherwise. To put it in another way, God the Father did not create the world solely without the involvement of His Spirit and Word.

But did God create "Space"

https://www.nairaland.com/5589661/did-god-create-space#85044838
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Janosky: 8:55pm On Dec 19, 2019
* I will REFUTE this misleading info BELOW twisting the truth about John1:1.
https://ichthys.com/mail-John%201-1.htm

What does "the Word was with God" mean
in John 1:1-2?
Question: Dear Dr. Luginbill, I am wondering
about the phrase in John 1:1 : "And the Word
was with God". I know that the words are
pros ton theon, if I'm not mistaken. Doesn't
that literally mean that The Word was
"toward" God? I have been in a discussion
with some people who think that pros ton
theon means "pertaining to God." Can it be
interpreted this way? Anyway, I would
appreciate your expert opinion on it. Thank
you and God bless you.
Response: Your understanding of the Greek
preposition pros is essentially correct. Just
like any English preposition, it covers a lot
of ground. And, more to the point, just like
any English preposition, it is possible to use
it in ways that are somewhat unusual (and
so command attention). John's use of pros
in Jn.1:1-2 is unique. If John had used the
dative case, it would mean something like
the Word was "with God" or even "at God's
place" (in the sense of the French chez moi ),
for that is the typical usage. It can mean, as
your correspondents suggest, "related to"
and often does have this meaning, but in the
following sense: "we were talking/thinking/
having a discussion about/concerning/
related to [something] (where the
"something" would be the object of pros). In
the absence of a verbal context to indicate
what this "related topic" would be (as is the
case in Jn.1:1 ), we don't find this use of
pros (i.e., it doesn't mean "related to" in the
sense of "kith and kin", only in the sense of
"concerning"wink. No, the use of pros in John
1:1-2 is a very unusual one, and it defies
English translation. You suggest "face to
face", and that is pretty close (although the
idea of "a face" is not in the preposition).
"Directed/oriented towards [on a common
level]" is closer, though this too is hard to
work into a translation. Here are two
possible ways to bring through the meaning
of pros in John 1:1-2 :
The Word existed in the beginning: the
Word was both present with the [Father]
God
[before creation] and the Word was God
[in His own right]. This same One was
present with the [Father] God in the
beginning
The Word [Jesus Christ] existed at the
very beginning, and there was
reciprocity between the Word and God
[the Father]. This One both existed and
enjoyed reciprocity with God from the
very beginning.
It is clear to me that John, under the
guidance of the Spirit, has gone to great
lengths (i.e., coming up with this inspired
use of pros) to make clear that while the
Word was in the presence of God, the Word
was also separate from God the Father, and
at the same time not inferior to God the
Father. These are all crucial points for
understanding our Lord Jesus Christ's 1)
co-equal divinity, 2) separate Person, and 3)
unique role in the Father's plan (see on the
Trinity, Bible Basics: Essential Doctrines of
the Bible; Part 1: Theology: The Study of
God
). We can compare Paul's similarly careful
(and similarly unusual) language in
Philippians chapter two, where he likewise
wishes to describe Christ's pre-incarnate
divinity (with the word harpagmos in verse
six giving translators fits):
You too should have this attitude
which Christ Jesus had. Since He
already existed in the very form of
God, equality with God was
[certainly] not something He
thought He had to grasp for. Yet
in spite of this [co-equal divinity
He already possessed], He
deprived Himself of His status
and took on the form of a slave,
[and was] born in the likeness of
men. He humbled Himself,
becoming obedient to the point of
death, even [His] death on [the]
cross [for us all].
Philippians 2:5-8
To return to our main passage and your
specific question, "pertaining to God",
suggested by your correspondents, can't
work as a translation, because there is no
transitive verbal idea for the Word to "pertain
to" here (it doesn't work with the copulative
verb "to be"wink. On the other hand, translating
simply "with" doesn't bring out the idea of
the Word and God the Father facing each
other on an equal basis. I don't much like
"face to face" because it is so
anthropomorphic, and because John could
easily have said prosopon pros prosopon
(literally, "face to face"wink had he wanted to (it
is a very common NT usage). After all, we
too who are most definitely not divine will
"see Him face to face": 1Cor.13:12 ; cf.
1Jn.3:2 ). But the simple, spare pros
conveys everything to us in a powerful way,
God the Father and the Word, together as
One, yet unique and distinct, and with
distinct roles in the Plan of God.
As I mentioned, you can find out more about
the Trinity in Bible Basics: Essential
Doctrines of the Bible; Part 1: Theology: The
Study of God
. I quote here footnote #6 from that study,
because the information it contains is
particularly relevant to this discussion:
In verse one of John 1:1-3 , the
clause "the Word was God"
cannot legitimately be translated
"the Word was a God". First,
earlier in the verse, the apostle
John had used the definite article
with the Greek word theos to refer
to the Father according to
customary usage ("the [sc.
Father] God"wink, and so to use the
identical combination again to
refer to the Word would be
potentially confusing, making it
seem as if "the Word" was really
identical to "the [sc. Father] God",
one of the very points that John
is disproving here. Secondly,
Greek does not possess an
indefinite article ("a/an"wink, but it
does have an indefinite pronoun
("a certain one"; Greek tis) - the
very word that a Greek reader
would expect here if the point
was that Christ was somehow a
god, but not really "God". So John
only had three ways to write this:
1) the Word was "the God" (but
this would mean that there was
no real distinction between the
Father and Christ); 2) the Word
was "a certain god" (but this
would mean that Christ was a
lesser sort of divinity, not God on
the level of the Father); or 3) the
Word was "God" - what John
actually did write, thus fully and
unambiguously attributing deity
to the Word as distinct from the
Father.
Hope this helps!
Yours in the Word.
Bob L.
*******
I will REFUTE this misleading info twisting the truth about John1:1

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Janosky: 9:31pm On Dec 19, 2019
Dr. Luginbill says:
"Directed/oriented towards [on a common
level]" is closer, though this too is hard to
work into a translation."

(In other words "The Word was with the God = "Directed/oriented towards is closer " English equivalent of Greek John1:1.
Dr. Luginbill says:
** : "this too is hard to
work into a translation."
*** My QUESTION: Why is this too hard to work into English translation" of John1:1?
The closer English equivalent to Greek John 1:1 DOES NOT support the Trinity FRAUD at all..
No hint of "common level" in Greek John1:1. Dr Lunginbill inserted that to claim coequality.

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Janosky: 10:01pm On Dec 19, 2019
Dr. Luginbill says:
"Here are two
possible ways to bring through the meaning
of pros in John 1:1-2 :
The Word existed in the beginning: the
Word was both present with the [Father]
God
[before creation] and the Word was God
[in His own right]. This same One was
present with the [Father] God in the
beginning "

(*2)
The Word [Jesus Christ] existed at the
very beginning, and there was
reciprocity between the Word and God
[the Father]. This One both existed and
enjoyed reciprocity with God from the
very beginning."

The problem with (*1) is that Dr Luginbill is telling us Greek John 1:1 has 2 Gods.
The ( Father) God and another being, the Word "(God in his own right)". Both are Gods.
It's idiocy to deny it.

*(2).
Psalms 110:1 & Hebrew 10:12-13 occurred in the spirit realm, therefore refutes the fallacious claims: "enjoyed reciprocity with God from the
very beginning."

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Janosky: 10:02pm On Dec 19, 2019
Dr. Luginbill says:
"Here are two
possible ways to bring through the meaning
of pros in John 1:1-2 :
The Word existed in the beginning: the
Word was both present with the [Father]
God
[before creation] and the Word was God
[in His own right]. This same One was
present with the [Father] God in the
beginning "

(*2)
The Word [Jesus Christ] existed at the
very beginning, and there was
reciprocity between the Word and God
[the Father]. This One both existed and
enjoyed reciprocity with God from the
very beginning."

The problem with (*1) is that Dr Luginbill is telling us Greek John 1:1 has 2 Gods.
The ( Father) God and another being, the Word "(God in his own right)". Both are Gods.
It's idiocy to deny it.

*(2).
Psalms 110:1 & Hebrew 10:12-13 occurred in the spirit realm, therefore refutes the fallacious claims: "enjoyed reciprocity with God from the
very beginning."
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Janosky: 11:15pm On Dec 19, 2019
Dr Lubingill says:
"It is clear to me that John, under the
guidance of the Spirit, has gone to great
lengths (i.e., coming up with this inspired
use of pros) to make clear that while the
Word was in the presence of God, the Word
was also separate from God the Father, and
at the same time not inferior to God the
Father. "

***
Shadeyinka, come and see your "spirit filled" Trinitarian friend DISPROVE your "the Word is Yahweh" FRAUD.

So much confusion among "spirit filled" triune pagan deity devotees.
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Janosky: 12:34am On Dec 20, 2019
Dr Lubingill says:
"I quote here footnote #6 from that study,
because the information it contains is
particularly relevant to this discussion:
In verse one of John 1:1-3 , the
clause "the Word was God"
cannot legitimately be translated
"the Word was a God".
( ** Big LIE from Dr Lubingill.
Why?
Because "the Word is a God attributes divine nature (divinity) to the Word as distinct from the (Father )God"wink


(#*A1)
First,
earlier in the verse, the apostle
John had used the definite article
with the Greek word theos to refer
to the Father according to
customary usage ("the [sc.
Father] God"wink, and so to use the
identical combination again to
refer to the Word would be
potentially confusing, making it
seem as if "the Word" was really
identical to "the [sc. Father] God",
one of the very points that John
is disproving here.
(#*A2)
Secondly,
Greek does not possess an
indefinite article ("a/an"wink, but it
does have an indefinite pronoun
("a certain one"; Greek tis) - the
very word that a Greek reader
would expect here if the point
was that Christ was somehow a
god, but not really "God".

(#*A3)
So John
only had three ways to write this:
1) the Word was "the God" (but
this would mean that there was
no real distinction between the
Father and Christ); 2) the Word
was "a certain god" (but this
would mean that Christ was a
lesser sort of divinity, not God on
the level of the Father); or 3) the
Word was "God" - what John
actually did write, thus fully and
unambiguously attributing deity
to the Word as distinct from the
Father."

(#*A1)
Shadeyinka,MuttleyLaff,Solite3 disagree.
They said the Word is Yahweh(God) himself, no distinction.

(#*A2)
Dr Lubingill DUBIOUSLY placed "a CERTAIN", this word (" a CERTAIN"wink distorted the contextual meaning of Greek John 1:1.
What is Greek theos ?
Greek theos= God, a god).
To translate theos = a god (is still very accurate).
Tov Theon is NOT the Word (whether you like it or not).
In Every Greek Lexicon Tov Theon ('the God') is exclusive to Yahweh,the only true God.
If Jesus is "really God" ,Dr Lubingill is really confused & LYING.
He earlier said :
" to use the identical combination (God) again to
refer to the Word would be
potentially confusing, making it
seem as if "the Word" was really
identical to "the [sc. Father] God",
one of the very points that John
is disproving here."
(Tov ("the"wink was removed from Ihedinobi3 and Shadeyinka's Trinitarian Greek lexicon to deceive the gullible that "The Word was Theon/theos (God) is the same being as Yahweh.

(#*A3)
So John
only had three ways to write this:
1) the Word was "the God" (but
this would mean that there was
no real distinction between the
Father and Christ);
Tov (the) is the game changer.......
They removed Tov (the) from the lexicon, so that Theon/theos will appear to be the same being..

That's the Trinity FRAUD for you.
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by MuttleyLaff: 4:59am On Dec 20, 2019
Janosky:
Dr Lubin Gill says: "I quote here footnote #6 from that study, because the information it contains is particularly relevant to this discussion: In verse one of John 1:1-3 , the clause "the Word was God" cannot legitimately be translated "the Word was a God". ( ** Big LIE from Dr Lubinga. Why? Because "the Word is a God attributes divine nature (divinity) to the Word as distinct from the (Father) God'')

(#*A1) First, earlier in the verse, the apostle John had used the definite article with the Greek word theos to refer to the Father according to customary usage ("the [sc. Father] God" wink, and so to use the identical combination again to refer to the Word would be potentially confusing, making it seem as if "the Word" was really identical to "the [sc. Father] God", one of the very points that John is disproving here..

(#*A2)Secondly, Greek does not possess an indefinite article ("a/an" wink, but it does have an indefinite pronoun ("a certain one"; Greek tis) - the very word that a Greek reader would expect here if the point was that Christ was somehow a god, but not really "God".
Do you see how you've shot yourself in the foot here Janosky, lol

Janosky:
(#*A3)
So John only had three ways to write this:
1) the Word was "the God" (but this would mean that there was no real distinction between the Father and Christ);
2) the Word was "a certain god" (but this would mean that Christ was a lesser sort of divinity, not God on the level of the Father);
or 3) the Word was "God" - what John actually did write, this fully and unambiguously attributing deity to the Word as distinct from the Father."

(#*A1)
Shadeyinka, MuttleyLaff, Solite3 disagree.
They said the Word is Yahweh(God) himself, no distinction.
"For in Christ lives all the fullness of God (i.e. Godhead) in a human body."
- Colossians 2:9

Janosky take your lying self comot for road, go and siddon for corner somewhere, make beta pipul waka pass enter jor ojaare, lol. John 1:1 was written in Greek language. It had the Word was "the God" written, but this does not mean that there was no real distinction between the Father and Christ. Of course the Father is distinct from the Son, in respect of, it is the Son who physically is human, nonetheless, we are still talking of being God here, which both the Father and Son, essentially and in a natural way, fully are

Fyi, MuttleyLaff, unlike you Janosky, disagrees that Jesus is a smallcase letter "g" god and this is because of the theological fact that Jesus is a co-equal with God (i.e. Christ is on same level as God the Father) Now knowing Janosky for whom Janosky is, just watch as Janosky, inspite of illuminating Colossians 2:9 above, aims to go for the jugular and without properly understanding the context of John 14:28, try to make a kill with using John 14:28, lol, smh. Jesus Christ, the Word is Yahweh (i.e. God) in human flesh and/or human body. Jesus Christ, the Word is Yahweh (i.e. God) embodied in human flesh, lol. Janosky, John 1:14, from Bible 101, attests to this, lol.

God, the Father and the Word, who is what happened to become Jesus Christ, are both uncreated. Tbh with you Janosky, I know what your problem is, your confusion here and your skepticism problem Janosky, that Jesus Christ is not God, stems from you believing that Jesus Christ was created, lol, smh.

Janosky:
(#*A2)
Dr Lubingill DUBIOUSLY placed "a CERTAIN", this word (" a CERTAIN"wink distorted the contextual meaning of Greek John 1:1. What is Greek theos ? Greek theos= God, a god). To translate theos = a god (is still very accurate). Tov Theon is NOT the Word (whether you like it or not). In Every Greek Lexicon Tov Theon ('the God') is exclusive to Yahweh,the only true God. If Jesus is "really God" ,Dr Lubingill is really confused & LYING. He earlier said : " to use the identical combination (God) again to refer to the Word would be potentially confusing, making it seem as if "the Word" was really identical to "the [sc. Father] God", one of the very points that John is disproving here." (Tov ("the"wink was removed from Ihedinobi3 and Shadeyinka's Trinitarian Greek lexicon to deceive the gullible that "The Word was Theon/theos (God) is the same being as Yahweh..
"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
"
- Isaiah 9:6

Stop being crafty by half Janosky. If you know whats best for you, you'll just suck it up, go lick your bruises in a corner, put on band-aid, and get some healing while you deal with Isaiah 9:6, lol

Janosky:
(#*A3)
So John only had three ways to write this: 1) the Word was "the God" (but this would mean that there was no real distinction between the Father and Christ); Tov (the) is the game changer....... They removed Tov (the) from the lexicon, so that Theon/theos will appear to be the same being..
Grammatically writing in English it makes no sense to retain "Tov (i.e. the)" when transliterating and translating (i.e. it will be grammatcally incorrect)

John was writing in Greek, so he had to use "the God". If John were to write all over again but start first with writing in English language, he would have removed "Tov (i.e. the)" too, he would have had to leave "Tov (i.e. the)" out and not put "Tov (i.e. the)." Capisce? lol.

Janosky:
That's the Trinity FRAUD for you.
No trinity fraud anywhere, you're unnecessarily merely getting worked up for nothing and/or losing precious sleep over nothing, lol. Given that trinity is all-important, you still fail to understand that trinity, really, is not a, "be all, end all" of the Godhead, lol
cc: Finallydead
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Finallydead: 1:16pm On Dec 20, 2019
MuttleyLaff:
Do you see how you've shot yourself in the foot here Janosky, lol

"For in Christ lives all the fullness of God (i.e. Godhead) in a human body."
- Colossians 2:9
...God, the Father and the Word, who is what happened to become Jesus Christ, are both uncreated...
cc: Finallydead

In honor to your invitation, I will do something I don't do. As a rule, I generally don't try to satisfy atheists'/agnostics' inquiries, hence staying off threads like this. This, of course, is not because there is any of their inquiries which cannot be answered by very simple logic, but because if anyone at all was able to do so, it will still prove pointless, hence a loss of time and resources, until the knowledge of God is spiritually(rather than intellectually), revealed to them by His grace. Take Paul, the intellectual, for instance. But if you, sir, will gain anything in this, I may.
The divinity of the Lord Jesus is a major benchmark in separating between the believer(life) from the unbeliever(death).(1Jn 4:1-3, 5:5-12, 1Tim3:16). There is no room for arguments around it but a simple declaration of one's side of the divide. The witness God has left about it is actually not just in a book(bible, which will not suffice) but in His very flesh and blood given for humanity.(Jn6:51-54, Lk 22:19-20). Indeed, the taste of this "pudding" is totally in the eating. If anyone wants to verify the divinity of Christ, he should eat of His flesh and blood. If it reveals the unique divine righteousness in one, then He is God, otherwise, He is not. The one who does will know in himself. He who doesn't like it, after eating, may freely discard it and return to his previous state of condemnation(Heb 10:29). Case closed.
But consider this, when men sow their seed in women, a baby is born, all things being equal. Yet, this baby, though just being seen and perceived had always existed as seed form inside the man. So, with God and Mary, the mother of Jesus.
#Modifiied#
Cc: MuttleyLaff

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Janosky: 1:29pm On Dec 20, 2019
MuttleyLaff:
Do you see how you've shot yourself in the foot here Janosky, lol

"For in Christ lives all the fullness of God (i.e. Godhead) in a human body."
- Colossians 2:9

Janosky take your lying self comot for road, go and siddon for corner somewhere, make beta pipul waka pass enter jor ojaare, lol. John 1:1 was written in Greek language. It had the Word was "the God" written, but this does not mean that there was no real distinction between the Father and Christ. Of course the Father is distinct from the Son, in respect of, it is the Son who physically is human, nonetheless, we are still talking of being God here, which both the Father and Son, essentially and in a natural way, fully are

Fyi, MuttleyLaff, unlike you Janosky, disagrees that Jesus is a smallcase letter "g" god and this is because of the theological fact that Jesus is a co-equal with God (i.e. Christ is on same level as God the Father) Now knowing Janosky for whom Janosky is, just watch as Janosky, inspite of illuminating Colossians 2:9 above, aims to go for the jugular and without properly understanding the context of John 14:28, try to make a kill with using John 14:28, lol, smh. Jesus Christ, the Word is Yahweh (i.e. God) in human flesh and/or human body. Jesus Christ, the Word is Yahweh (i.e. God) embodied in human flesh, lol. Janosky, John 1:14, from Bible 101, attests to this, lol.

God, the Father and the Word, who is what happened to become Jesus Christ, are both uncreated. Tbh with you Janosky, I know what your problem is, your confusion here and your skepticism problem Janosky, that Jesus Christ is not God, stems from you believing that Jesus Christ was created, lol, smh.

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
"
- Isaiah 9:6

Stop being crafty by half Janosky. If you know whats best for you, you'll just suck it up, go lick your bruises in a corner, put on band-aid, and get some healing while you deal with Isaiah 9:6, lol

Grammatically writing in English it makes no sense to retain "Tov (i.e. the)" when transliterating and translating (i.e. it will be grammatcally incorrect)


]

Dr Lubingill DUBIOUS quote is what you ascribed to Janosky. blatant dishonesty from MuttleyLaff.

.
"lol. John 1:1 was written in Greek language. It had the Word was "the God" written" MuttleyLaff LIAR.

́Fyi, MuttleyLaff, unlike you Janosky, disagrees that Jesus is a smallcase letter "g" god and this is because of the theological fact that Jesus is a co-equal with God (i.e. Christ is on same level as God the Father)" MuttleyLaff LIAR.

" 'In heaven,who is giving commands to The 'God' of MuttleyLaff @ Psalms 110:1. Hebrews 10:12-13 "Sit at my right hand." ?

"Grammatically writing in English it makes no sense to retain "Tov (i.e. the)" when transliterating and translating (i.e. it will be grammatcally incorrect)" MuttleyLaff LIAR.
But your English has grammatical correctness to write : In the beginning(John 1:1), while the Greek says : in beginning" (without "the"wink.
Wayo MuttleyLaff.

@ Colossians 2:9 Greek theiotēs= divine nature.

theiotēs

1) divinity, divine nature

Part of Speech: noun feminine

Relation: from G2304

Citing in TDNT: 3:123, 322

*********

DICTIONARY
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divinity
/dɪˈvɪnɪti/
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noun
1.
the state or quality of being divine.
"Christ's divinity"
Similar:
divine nature


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Divinity | Definition of Divinity at Dictionary.com
noun, plural di·vin·i·ties. ... a being having divine attributes, ranking below God but above humans: minor divinities. ...

..*****.
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Divinity dictionary definition | divinity defined - YourDictionary
divinity definition: Divinity is defined as a divine being, or the quality of being divine,"

Triune pagan devotees, your triune Godhead is NOT theiotēs( divine nature.)
MuttleyLaff throway your triune pagan Godhead for sewage dump.

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by MuttleyLaff: 1:29pm On Dec 20, 2019
Finallydead:
In honor to your invitation, I will do something I don't do. As a rule, I generally don't try to satisfy atheists'/agnostics' inquiries, hence staying off threads like this. This, of course, is not because there is any of their inquiries which cannot be answered by very simple logic, but because if anyone at all was able to do so, it will still prove pointless, hence a loss of time and resources, until the knowledge of God is spiritually(rather than intellectually), revealed to them by His grace. Take Paul, the intellectual, for instance. But if you, sir, will gain anything in this, I may.
The divinity of the Lord Jesus is a major benchmark in separating between the believer(life) from the unbeliever(death).(1Jn 4:1-3, 5:5, 1Tim3:16). There is no room for arguments around it but a simple declaration of one's side of the divide. The witness God has left about it is actually not in a simple book(bible, which will not suffice) but in His very flesh and blood given for humanity.(Jn6:51-54, Lk 22:19-20). Indeed, the taste of this "pudding" is totally in the eating. If anyone wants to verify the divinity of Christ, he should eat of His flesh and blood. If it reveals the unique divine righteousness in one, then He is God, otherwise, He is not. The one who does will know in himself. He who doesn't like it, after eating, may freely discard it and return to his previous state of condemnation(Heb 10:29). Case closed.
But consider this wisdom, when men sow their seed in women, a baby is born, all things being equal. Yet, this baby, though just being seen and perceived had always existed in a certain form inside the man.
Wow, so this means Janosky had tasted Jesus, but has decided not to swallow and keep Jesus well down within and onsode him but rather preferred to spit Jesus out and wash the taste of Jesus, as God, out of his tongue and/or mouth, smh.
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by MuttleyLaff: 1:38pm On Dec 20, 2019
Janosky:
Dr Lubingill DUBIOUS quote is what you ascribed to Janosky. blatant dishonesty from MuttleyLaff.

"lol. John 1:1 was written in Greek language. It had the Word was "the God" written" MuttleyLaff LIAR.

́Fyi, MuttleyLaff, unlike you Janosky, disagrees that Jesus is a smallcase letter "g" god and this is because of the theological fact that Jesus is a co-equal with God (i.e. Christ is on same level as God the Father)" MuttleyLaff LIAR.

" 'In heaven,who is giving commands to The 'God' of MuttleyLaff @ Psalms 110:1. Hebrews 10:12-13 "Sit at my right hand." ?

"Grammatically writing in English it makes no sense to retain "Tov (i.e. the)" when transliterating and translating (i.e. it will be grammatcally incorrect)" MuttleyLaff LIAR.
But your English has grammatical correctness to write : In the beginning(John 1:1), while the Greek says : in beginning" (without "the"wink.
Wayo MuttleyLaff.

theiotēs

1) divinity, divine nature

Part of Speech: noun feminine

Relation: from G2304

Citing in TDNT: 3:123, 322
Maybe when you learn to make comments without having to copy and paste other people's original thought and work here, we might have a sensible discussion and you wouldn't be persistently advertising your ignorance and lack of understanding here everytime.

Try to make comments here, using your own words, your own understanding, your own thoughts and not be so quick to be bring in third parties, who aren't here to talk for themselves or able to defend what they've typed that you have brought on to the thread. You aren't the originator of those any of those literary works you repeat here on this thread and so you wouldn't be in a position to defend any of them.
Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by Janosky: 1:53pm On Dec 20, 2019
MuttleyLaff:
Maybe when you learn to make comments without having to copy and paste other people's original thought and work here, we might have a sensible discussion and you wouldn't be persistently advertising your ignorance and lack of understanding here everytime.

Try to make comments here, using your own words, your own understanding, your own thoughts and not be so quick to be bring in third parties, who aren't here to talk for themselves or able to defend what they've typed that you have brought on to the thread. You aren't the originator of those any of those literary works you repeat here on this thread and so you wouldn't be in a position to defend any of them.

I can see that the truth dey pain you for brain.
The major reason NL triune pagan devotees hate the Greek Lexicon for the exposure of their FRAUD.

2 Likes

Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by MuttleyLaff: 2:04pm On Dec 20, 2019
Janosky:
I can see that the truth dey pain you for brain.
The major reason NL triune pagan devotees hate the Greek Lexicon for the exposure of their FRAUD.
I am sure you didn't read and/or didnt understand Finallydead's assessment of you, lol.

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