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The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum - Religion - Nairaland

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Don't Be Deceived, These Are The Churches You Shouldn't Be Attending. / The Many Mistakes Of Apostle Paul's Teachings: Mistake No. 7 Correction / Letter To The Church Of Thyatira(the Seductress) (2) (3) (4)

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The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by Anas09: 1:07pm On Sep 01, 2019
Refer to the blue fonts for the things the church was commended for, refer to the red one for their mistakes;

The mistakes of the church of Pergamos;

Revelation 2 v 12-17;

12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.



The mistakes of the Church of Thyatira;

Revelation 2 v 18-29;

18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



can you see both churches were full of zealous believers earnestly wanting to serve the Lord, but still had issues to contend with arising from their ignorance of the wiles of the devil? Is it that they were not focused on the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles and yet were still deceived? Hmmm?

2 Likes

Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by Anas09: 1:17pm On Sep 01, 2019
OKcornel or Okaicornel.
This thread is actually opened for you to outline the mistakes of the Church in Thyatira and Pergamum.
Keep these in mind.

1. What does the 'Seat of Saran' means?

2. What are the Doctrines of Balaam? And how are those doctrines casting stumbling blocks on today's Christians?

3. What is the Doctrine of the Nicolaitans?

4. Who was Jezebel there and what were her teachings?

5. What are the 'Depth of Satan or the Secret things of satan?

And lastly, what do you mean by this;

can you see both churches were full of zealous believers earnestly wanting to serve the Lord, but still had issues to contend with arising from their ignorance of the wiles of the devil? Is it that they were not focused on the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles and yet were still deceived? Hmmm?

Pls clear straight to the point analyzes using Scriptures to interpret revelation Chapter 2.

God bless.

2 Likes

Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkaiCorne(m): 1:30pm On Sep 01, 2019
Anas09:
OKcornel or Okaicornel.
This thread is actually opened for you to outline the mistakes of the Church in Thyatira and Pergamum.
Keep these in mind.

1. What does the 'Seat of Saran' means?

2. What are the Doctrines of Balaam? And how are those doctrines casting stumbling blocks on today's Christians?

3. What is the Doctrine of the Nicolaitans?

4. Who was Jezebel there and what were her teachings?

5. What are the 'Depth of Satan or the Secret things of satan?

And lastly, what do you mean by this;

can you see both churches were full of zealous believers earnestly wanting to serve the Lord, but still had issues to contend with arising from their ignorance of the wiles of the devil? Is it that they were not focused on the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles and yet were still deceived? Hmmm?

Pls clear straight to the point analyzes using Scriptures to interpret revelation Chapter 2.

God bless.

Hi Anas09, thanks for taking out time to create this thread for us to discuss.

I will bring both the scriptures and historical evidences to put Revelation 2 as regards Thyatira and Pergamos in perspective. And answer your questions as well.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkaiCorne(m): 1:55pm On Sep 01, 2019
Anas09, Let us set the ball rolling with the church of Pergamos. Before we move into the scriptures in Revelation 2, let's have an brief overview of the historical and culture prevalent in the city of Pergamos as at the time John wrote a letter to them.

HISTORICAL BACKGROUND OF THE CITY OF PERGAMOS
Pergamos was a rich ancient Greek city with most of it's income coming from trade by the sea ports and tourism (majorly from visitors thronging the various temples).

For a coastal city as such, which was a melting pot of trade, commerce and tourism, idolatry and sexual immorality was the order of the day and a way of life in a decadent Roman Empire. Devotion to many idols, temple prostitution to glorify the fertility goddess Athena and other sexual immoral acts were seen as the norm, culture and way of life in Pergamos.

The city of Pergamos had three temples dedicated to the worship of the Roman emperor, another for the goddess Athena, and the Great Altar of Zeus, the king of the Greek gods. The Altar of Zeus is what many bible scholars considered as the seat of satan referred to by Jesus in Revelation 2.

I have given a brief summary on the background of the ancient Greek city of Pergamos now in modern day Turkey.

For detailed expose on Pergamos, you can refer to this source;
https://www1.cbn.com/700club/seat-satan-ancient-pergamum

I would have pasted more links and resources, but I'm cautious of the anti-spam bot.


Antipas, a church leader at Pergamos was martyred for the sake of the gospel (Revelation 2 v 13). He was roasted alive in a bronze bull for the testimony of Jesus. See picture below for further details on how excruciating that kind of death is. You can also check Foxe's Book of Martyrs on that.

Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkaiCorne(m): 2:11pm On Sep 01, 2019
Now let's look into the scriptures having an understanding of the background of the city of Pergamos, and the mistakes of believers which Jesus scolded them for in Revelation 2 v 12-17;

12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth
.

17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.



The fonts bolded in blue refers to their strengths. The fonts bolded in blue refers to their failures and shortcomings. In my next post, I will answer your questions regarding the Pergamos Church on;

1. What does the 'Seat of Satan' means? - Please note, I have answered this in my preceding post to mean the three great pagan temples, particularly that of Zeus. All sorts of diabolical and occultic things were the order of the day in that city all in the name of worshiping those pagan gods.

2. What are the Doctrines of Balaam? And how are those doctrines casting stumbling blocks on today's Christians?
3. What is the Doctrine of the Nicolaitans?
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkaiCorne(m): 2:20pm On Sep 01, 2019
here we go;

THE DOCTRINE OF BALAAM

A quick glance at Numbers chapter 22 - 25 tells the story of Balaam, Balak and how the Israelites were seduced into idolatry and fornication.

Particularly Numbers 25 v 1-3;
1 While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women,
2 who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate the sacrificial meal and bowed down before these gods.
3 So Israel yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor.
And the Lord’s anger burned against them.
4 The Lord said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord’s fierce anger may turn away from Israel.”


Numbers 31 v 15-18 further shows that Balaam adviced Balak to do this in order to ensure the children of Israel would anger and grieve God so God can destroy them;

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them.
16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people.
17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.


Anas09, recall that the city of Pergamos was well known for idolatry and sexual immorality as a way of life for those resident there. Even the believers who were called out to live holy lives in service to the Lord still had those justifying and endorsing these traditions & culture in their midst, rather than full obedience to the instructions of Jesus.

Anas09, Do you have any clarification before I proceed further and finalize on the Pergamos church in my next two posts?
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by Anas09: 2:55pm On Sep 01, 2019
OkaiCorne:
Anas09, Let us set the ball rolling with the church of Pergamos. Before we move into the scriptures in Revelation 2, let's have an brief overview of the historical and culture prevalent in the city of Pergamos as at the time John wrote a letter to them.

HISTORICAL BACKGROUND OF THE CITY OF PERGAMOS
Pergamos was a rich ancient Greek city with most of it's income coming from trade by the sea ports and tourism (majorly from visitors thronging the various temples).

For a coastal city as such, which was a melting pot of trade, commerce and tourism, idolatry and sexual immorality was the order of the day and a way of life in a decadent Roman Empire. Devotion to many idols, temple prostitution to glorify the fertility goddess Athena and other sexual immoral acts were seen as the norm, culture and way of life in Pergamos.

The city of Pergamos had three temples dedicated to the worship of the Roman emperor, another for the goddess Athena, and the Great Altar of Zeus, the king of the Greek gods. The Altar of Zeus is what many bible scholars considered as the seat of satan referred to by Jesus in Revelation 2.

I have given a brief summary on the background of the ancient Greek city of Pergamos now in modern day Turkey.

For detailed expose on Pergamos, you can refer to this source;
https://www1.cbn.com/700club/seat-satan-ancient-pergamum

I would have pasted more links and resources, but I'm cautious of the anti-spam bot.


Antipas, a church leader at Pergamos was martyred for the sake of the gospel (Revelation 2 v 13). He was roasted alive in a bronze bull for the testimony of Jesus. See picture below for further details. You can also check Foxe's Book of Martyrs on that.
Pls no links. Let everything be posted here. You can copy and paste but no links.

Continue.

1 Like

Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkaiCorne(m): 2:57pm On Sep 01, 2019
Anas09:

Pls no links. Let everything be posted here. You can copy and paste but no links.

Continue.

okay, thanks.

Do you have anything question so far on the church of Pergamos as regards the seat of Satan and the doctrine of Balaam?

So I can finalize that bit with my next two posts on the doctrine of the Nicolaitans...before we proceed to the Thyatira church.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by Anas09: 10:30pm On Sep 01, 2019
OkaiCorne:


okay, thanks.

Do you have anything question so far on the church of Pergamos as regards the seat of Satan and the doctrine of Balaam?

So I can finalize that bit with my next two posts on the doctrine of the Nicolaitans...before we proceed to the Thyatira church.
Address the points I raised first.

1 Like

Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkaiCorne(m): 10:33pm On Sep 01, 2019
Anas09:

Address the points I raised first.

The ones I've addressed so far;

1. The seat of Satan

2. The doctrine of Balaam.

Any further clarifications on these ones before I proceed further on the other ones?
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by Anas09: 11:07am On Sep 02, 2019
OkaiCorne:
here we go;

THE DOCTRINE OF BALAAM

A quick glance at Numbers chapter 22 - 25 tells the story of Balaam, Balak and how the Israelites were seduced into idolatry and fornication.

Particularly Numbers 25 v 1-3;
1 While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women,
2 who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate the sacrificial meal and bowed down before these gods.
3 So Israel yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor.
And the Lord’s anger burned against them.
4 The Lord said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord’s fierce anger may turn away from Israel.”


Numbers 31 v 15-18 further shows that Balaam adviced Balak to do this in order to ensure the children of Israel would anger and grieve God so God can destroy them;

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them.
16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people.
17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.


Anas09, recall that the city of Pergamos was well known for idolatry and sexual immorality as a way of life for those resident there. Even the believers who were called out to live holy lives in service to the Lord still had those justifying and endorsing these traditions & culture in their midst, rather than full obedience to the instructions of Jesus.

Anas09, Do you have any clarification before I proceed further and finalize on the Pergamos church in my next two posts?
Going by your analysis here, it shows that the people of Israel committed sin and grieved their God by associating with the wrong company whose eyes, ears and mouths were not with YHWH right?

Going bsck to why this thread was opened, if the Children of God kept theirs eyes on the Mark (That is live, and talk their God), the woes that came on them wouldn't have, right?

Can't you then see why YHWH doesn't want us Christisns taking our eyes, ears and mouths away from him? The Lord preached the Kingdom of Light all through His ministry on earth without much emphasis of the Kingdom of darkness, that is not because it wasn't there.

The doctrines of Balaam the Lord frowns at both in the days of the Apostles and still today, came also by association.

Bad company corrupts good manners is what the Lord said.
When you keep the wrong company, there's the tendency that you wld live and talk like your associates. It's natural and easier to bend towards evil than to good. That is why i say, let Children of God, talk God. Be profused with the Testimonies of Jesus and treat the kingdom of darkness as our God did. Becos the Lord says 'Guard your heart with all diligence for out of it comes the issues of Life. Prov. 4:23. And He also said that Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Lk 6:45. As a man's heart is, so is he.

What you say, you wld see. All of these can come by associating with the right or wrong company.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by Anas09: 11:31am On Sep 02, 2019
OkaiCorne:


The ones I've addressed so far;

1. The seat of Satan

2. The doctrine of Balaam.

Any further clarifications on these ones before I proceed further on the other ones?
Your analysis of the doctrines of Balaam is very accurate within scriptural context. Weldone.
But, let's add this.

THE SEAT OF SATAN
We are Christians. We have Church assemblies.
The Israelitish Church had the Temple, and in the Temple they had the Mercy Seat. And we are told that the Mercy Seat is where God dwells. In other words, the Seat of God.
Today, that Mercy Seat has been tranfered into our individual hearts. We carry it about and are instructed to still gather together in fellowships, as our gathering exults a stronger Presence of God.
Now, Whether Jews or Gentile believers When we gather the Mercy Seat rests in our midst (Altho invisible). What do we do when we gather in those assemblies? We talk God. We hear God, we are instructed by God, we exhort and admonish each other by God. Only through His Words Which are His thoughts and ways.

Now, come to the SEAT OF SATAN, and as you rightly said, it is the temple of idols. Whether Physically in visible locations or in the Hearts of men as it were. What happens there? Wld they be talking Jesus? Hearing Jesus, being instructed and admonished by Jesus? No.

They wld talk about their master satan.

Why then shd the Children of God gather and be all about satan?

Are you getting my perspective?

1 Like

Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by Anas09: 11:33am On Sep 02, 2019
Okaicornel. Moving forward.

Keep the focus on the mistakes of the Churches and bear in mine that their mistakes prevail in Churches today.
While we discuss, let's endeavor to keep the Op on point.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkCornel(m): 1:10pm On Sep 02, 2019
Anas09:

Your analysis of the doctrines of Balaam is very accurate within scriptural context. Weldone.
But, let's add this.

THE SEAT OF SATAN
We are Christians. We have Church assemblies.
The Israelitish Church had the Temple, and in the Temple they had the Mercy Seat. And we are told that the Mercy Seat is where God dwells. In other words, the Seat of God.
Today, that Mercy Seat has been tranfered into our individual hearts. We carry it about and are instructed to still gather together in fellowships, as our gathering exults a stronger Presence of God.
Now, Whether Jews or Gentile believers When we gather the Mercy Seat rests in our midst (Altho invisible). What do we do when we gather in those assemblies? We talk God. We hear God, we are instructed by God, we exhort and admonish each other by God. Only through His Words Which are His thoughts and ways.

Now, come to the SEAT OF SATAN, and as you rightly said, it is the temple of idols. Whether Physically in visible locations or in the Hearts of men as it were. What happens there? Wld they be talking Jesus? Hearing Jesus, being instructed and admonished by Jesus? No.

They wld talk about their master satan.

Why then shd the Children of God gather and be all about satan?

Are you getting my perspective?

Hi Anas09, No believer would talk about Satan in the context of glorifying his works. The focus ought to be on exposing the works of darkness and shaming them with testimonies of triumph.

That is where the focus lies. But like I've said over and over again, people will fall for the error of seeing one part of the story and closing their eyes to the testimonies of victory.


The question is, what is the motive? - Obviously, it is not to worship the works of darkness, but to expose and shame them.

And where is the focus on? - The focus ought to be on the testimonies of victories and triumph over the works of wickedness and darkness.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkCornel(m): 1:10pm On Sep 02, 2019
Thanks for the update Anas09, we'll continue later in the day.

Cheers.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by Anas09: 2:04pm On Sep 03, 2019
OKcornel. I'm still waiting
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkCornel(m): 2:34pm On Sep 03, 2019
Anas09:
OKcornel. I'm still waiting

No vex, later today I'll continue. Tight hectic schedule lately.

We'll come catch-up later tonight.

Thanks for your patience.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkCornel(m): 2:49am On Sep 04, 2019
Anas09:

Going by your analysis here, it shows that the people of Israel committed sin and grieved their God by associating with the wrong company whose eyes, ears and mouths were not with YHWH right?

Going bsck to why this thread was opened, if the Children of God kept theirs eyes on the Mark (That is live, and talk their God), the woes that came on them wouldn't have, right?

Can't you then see why YHWH doesn't want us Christisns taking our eyes, ears and mouths away from him? The Lord preached the Kingdom of Light all through His ministry on earth without much emphasis of the Kingdom of darkness, that is not because it wasn't there.

The doctrines of Balaam the Lord frowns at both in the days of the Apostles and still today, came also by association.

Bad company corrupts good manners is what the Lord said.
When you keep the wrong company, there's the tendency that you wld live and talk like your associates. It's natural and easier to bend towards evil than to good. That is why i say, let Children of God, talk God. Be profused with the Testimonies of Jesus and treat the kingdom of darkness as our God did. Becos the Lord says 'Guard your heart with all diligence for out of it comes the issues of Life. Prov. 4:23. And He also said that Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Lk 6:45. As a man's heart is, so is he.

What you say, you wld see. All of these can come by associating with the right or wrong company.


I will address this with two scriptures;

2 Corinthians 2 v 10-12;
10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
12 Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ's gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord.

Colossians 2 v 8-10;
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.



You can see Paul clearly stating in the scriptures that believers are not ignorant of the devices of the devil. Bring out the works of the kingdom of darkness, expose it to the light and shame them with testimonies of triumph in Christ over them. No one would have that excuse of ignorance of the devices of the devil all in the name of focusing on pleasing God. These are warnings.

On the other hand, Paul also admonished in Colossians 2 v 8, no one should be distracted by matters as these (i.e. works of the kingdom of darkness) and make a philosophy out of them. The distracted ones, and the ones pre-disposed to fear would have the tendencies of falling into the error of focusing on what the kingdom of darkness can do, rather than the testimonies of victory over them.

That is why I have been shouting myself hoarse many times on that thread, the focus should be on the testimonies of victory...and not just the works of wickedness in the kingdom of darkness.


Exposing the works of darkness to the light, and sharing testimonies of triumph over these is not the same thing as eating food offered to idols and fornication the Pergamos church was guilty of.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkCornel(m): 2:51am On Sep 04, 2019
DOCTRINE OF BALAAM CONT'D - HOW THIS A STUMBLING TODAY ON CHRISTIANS, LIKE THE PERGAMOS CHURCH AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.

Anas09, recall the economic, socio-cultural and paganistic setting of the city of Pergamos prior to when the gospel of salvation and the kingdom of God got there and the church was established.

The church (i.e. ekklessia or called out ones or believers) in Pergamos prior to being saved, would have lived their lives seeing idolatry and sexual immorality as the norm and way of life, as though there's nothing absolutely wrong with it. But unfortunately, the traditions of men cannot be substituted for the standards of God.

Having heard the gospel, and taken their decision to follow Christ and living spirit-led holy lives bearing fruits of repentance...unfortunately, the corrupters of truth among them, those who mix traditions of men with the truth out of ignorance or for ulterior motives began to sow seeds of tolerance for age-old Pergamos culture and beliefs within the church. That explains why they had a mixed report card from Jesus in the book of revelation, as believers were partly following the truth of Christ teachings on one hand thus leading to the good works they were commended for, and partly following the Pergamos culture of sexual immorality and feasting on foods offered to idols. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if there were believers in Pergamos who wrongly interpreted Paul's teachings on food offered to idols in 1 Corinthians 8 v 1-7 to justify their actions, despite Paul's warning in verse 9 to 13


WHAT IS GOD'S REQUIREMENT OF BELIEVER'S TODAY?
God requires those who believes in Him and worships Him in Spirit and Truth to look up to Him for salvation, repent from our past, sinful lifestyles, and keep on this with this life of repentance.

Look at the patterns in the Scriptures;

1) God saved the Israelites from their Egyptian oppressors and called them out of that land to the land He promised them. On mount Sinai, He gave Moses the terms and conditions of the covenant which they were to abide to inclusive of which is "You shall have no other gods before me", "You shall not commit adultery". As time went on, these 10 laws further evolved into 613 instructions which formed the Mosaic Law as we know it. The Israelites broke the terms of the covenant on multiple occasions in the desert, from worshiping the golden calf, to falling to the wiles of the seductresses of Moab as incited by Balaam to commit fornication and idolatry, thus grieving God and meting out instantaneous punishment on the trespassers.

2) God saved the believers in Pergamos and called them to live a holy lives in accordance with His will. The expectation was to live spirit-led lives with repentance from their past sinful lives. Unfortunately, they began to make excuses and tolerate sinful lifestyle of sexual immorality and idolatry (eating food offered to idols) within their midst. Jesus warned them sternly about this in Revelation 2. God's standard cannot be compromised to accommodate a willful sinful lifestyle.

Look at what is happening in the Church today;

Today, the church is rife with lopsided messages of salvation more often without repentance. All sorts of doctrines are coming up to justify and tolerate sinful lifestyle (a lifestyle where people derive pleasure from sin and actively seek the thrill for it) under the guise that "we are saved".

Jude saw this coming, little wonder he wrote of this in Jude 1 v 4;
For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Now we see doctrines of fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, and distorted teachings on Grace prevalent in the church today.

Any message of salvation without repentance is a perversion of the truth that would lead many to deceit and destruction.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkCornel(m): 4:01am On Sep 04, 2019
THE DOCTRINE OF THE NICOLAITANS;

Revelation 2 v 15-16
15 Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans.
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

An introduction to the founder of the doctrine of the Nicolaitans is adjudged to be deacon Nicolas. Remember deacon Nicolas was appointed as one of the seven deacons to attend to administrative issues in the church in Acts 6 v 5. Early church fathers such as Irenaeus identified Deacon Nicolas as the founder of the Nicolaitan sect.

The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, [when they are represented] as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practice adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols.

— Irenaeus, Adversus haereses, i. 26, §3[17]


The doctrine of the Nicolaitans is closely connected with the doctrine of Balaam considering their tolerance for sexual immorality, and encouraging early believers to participate in pagan rites and traditions under the guise of "we are no longer under the Law, but now under Grace". A truth which was distorted to promote immorality as Jude warned in Jude 1 v 4.

Indeed, we are under grace, but not to be taken as liberty to live sinful lives.

The two posts below gives more insight on the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, with links to further resources for study.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkCornel(m): 4:05am On Sep 04, 2019
DOCTRINES OF THE NICOLAITANS CONT'D

Things to note about Nicolas;

1. He came from paganism and had deep pagan roots, very much unlike the other six deacons who came from a pure Hebrew line. Nicolas’ pagan background meant that he had previously been immersed in the activities of the occult.

2. He was not afraid of taking an opposing position, evidenced by his ability to change religions twice. Converting to Judaism would have estranged him from his pagan family and friends. It would seem to indicate that he was not impressed or concerned about the opinions of other people.

3. He was a free thinker and very open to embracing new ideas and concepts. Judaism was very different from the pagan and occult world in which he had been raised. For him to shift from paganism to Judaism reveals that he was very liberal in his thinking, for most pagans were offended by Judaism. He was obviously not afraid to entertain or embrace new ways of thinking.

4. When he converted to Christ, it was at least the second time he had converted from one religion to another. We don’t know if, or how many times, he shifted from one form of paganism to another before he became a Jewish proselyte. His ability to easily change religious “hats” implies that he was not afraid to switch direction in midstream and go a totally different direction.



According to the writings of the Early Church leaders, Nicolas taught a doctrine of compromise, implying that total separation between Christianity and the practice of occult paganism was not essential.

From Early Church records, it seems apparent that this Nicolas of Antioch was so immersed in occultism, Judaism, and Christianity that he had a stomach for all of it. He had no problem intermingling these belief systems in various concoctions and saw no reason why believers couldn’t continue to fellowship with those still immersed in the black magic of the Roman empire and its countless mystery cults.

In the city of Pergamos, there were numerous dark and sinister forms of occultism, causing Pergamos to be one of the most wicked cities in the history of the ancient world. In both of these cities (Ephesus & Pergamos), believers were lambasted and persecuted fiercely by adherents of pagan religions, forced to contend with paganism on a level far beyond all other cities.

https://renner.org/who-were-nicolaitans-what-was-doctrine-deeds/
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkCornel(m): 4:16am On Sep 04, 2019
Nicolaitans
(followers of Nicolas ), a sect mentioned in ( Revelation 2:6 Revelation 2:15 ) whose deeds were strongly condemned.

They may have been identical with those who held the doctrine of Balaam. They seem to have held that it was lawful to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit fornication, in opposition to the decree of the Church rendered in Acts 15:20 Acts 15:29.

The teachers of the Church branded them with a name which expressed their true character. The men who did and taught such things were followers of Balaam. ( 2 Peter 2:15 ; Jude 1:11 )

They, like the false prophet of Pethor, united brave words with evil deeds. In a time of persecution, when the eating or not eating of things sacrificed to idols was more than ever a crucial test of faithfulness, they persuaded men more than ever that was a thing indifferent. (Revelation 2:13 Revelation 2:14)

This was bad enough, but there was a yet worse evil. Mingling themselves in the orgies of idolatrous feasts, they brought the impurities of those feasts into the meetings of the Christian Church.

And all this was done, it must be remembered not simply as an indulgence of appetite: but as a part of a system, supported by a "doctrine," accompanied by the boast of a prophetic illumination, (2 Peter 2:1) It confirms the view which has been taken of their character to find that stress is laid in the first instance on the "deeds" of the Nicolaitans.


To hate those deeds is a sign of life in a Church that otherwise is weak and faithless. (Revelation 2:6) To tolerate them is well nigh to forfeit the glory of having been faithful under persecution. (Revelation 2:14 Revelation 2:15)
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/nicolaitans/
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkCornel(m): 4:19am On Sep 04, 2019
Anas09, any question or clarification or contribution at this point? So we can proceed to the Thyatira church...

Thanks.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by Anas09: 7:35pm On Sep 04, 2019
You are yet to react to my posts.
OkCornel:

Hi Anas09, No believer would talk about Satan in the context of glorifying his works. The focus ought to be on exposing the works of darkness and shaming them with testimonies of triumph.
The questionnis, where are these Christians taking precedence from?

The One who called them told them to talk about the Kingdom of God, so where did they see exposing and shaming the kingdom of satan from?
Is there any Christian who knows the kingdom of satan like the Lord Jesus? Why didn't He expose and shame it?
Where are the Testimonies of triumph you keep talking about?

How many people knew so.much about satan and that knowledge led to their conversion to Christ?
How many turned away from sin as a result of knowing so much about satan?

How many receive power over fear of the devil knowing the ways of satan?

Pls I need you to answer these before you go further

OkCornel:

That is where the focus lies. But like I've said over and over again, people will fall for the error of seeing one part of the story and closing their eyes to the testimonies of victory.
You keep talking about the Testimonies of Victory as if that justifies it.

Why didn't Jesus do this? Didn't He know the Testimonies involved? Were you commanded to do this?
Can you see that Jesus knew that these wld cast fear into people's minds, hence he refused to talk about satan?
Who are you following because it's not Jesus.

OkCornel:

The question is, what is the motive? - Obviously, it is not to worship the works of darkness, but to expose and shame them.
Hmmm. To an unsuspecting eye, that seems genuine and good intended, but to a sensitive mind, that's a lie.
I asked you and you are yet to answer. Why didn't Jesus do this?
Jesus says as my father has sent me, so send I you.
What did his father sent him to do, preach the Kingdom of God. If He is sending you to do what he did, is exposing and shaming satan what he sent you to do?

Can't you see that you have misplaced priorities yet by all means are trying to justify your error?

In the Temple of God we talk God, why are you talking satan in the Temple of God?
OkCornel:

And where is the focus on? - The focus ought to be on the testimonies of victories and triumph over the works of wickedness and darkness.
Who sent you this message is the question youbhave not answered. And I asked again, victory over what? Sin?

Has knowing satan stopped people from lying, stealing, cheating Lesbianism or Homosexuality?has it stopped people from pride and malice, anger, unforgiveness and murder? Has it delivered people from sex demons? Or hard drugs addictions?

What victory are you even on about?

From now let's use the Word of God when making our points, I'm not here to speak my mind. It has to be the Word of God.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkCornel(m): 7:39pm On Sep 04, 2019
Anas09, seems you want a refresher of the testimonies you were shown a few days ago.

I'm coming, lemme adjust properly and address this your post.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by Anas09: 8:28pm On Sep 04, 2019
OkCornel:

I will address this with two scriptures;

2 Corinthians 2 v 10-12;
10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
12 Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ's gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord.
I talked about Association Whether good or bad, which made the Children of God commit sin against their God, but instead of you to follow in that line, you went off completely to bring in 2Cor 2: 10-12, which as no bearing at all as far as this conversation is concerned.

Now let me tell you within context what Apostle meant to warn believers against and what he meant by The devices of the ebemy.
Read from Verse 1 of 2Cor 2, when you get to verse 7 this is what it says 7When people sin, you should forgive and comfort them, so they won't give up in despair. 8You should make them sure of your love for them.

I will forgive anyone you forgive. Yes, for your sake and with Christ as my witness, I have forgiven whatever needed to be forgiven.

I have done this to keep Satan from getting the better of us. We all know what goes on in his mind.

OKcornel. What is Apst Paul is warning Christians against here is holding grudges and malice which leads to Unforgiveness which can give satan room to hinder believers. Jesus says if you forgive not others, your heavenly father will not forgive you.

'The device of the enemy' Paul meant here is 'Unforgiveness', not exposing satan, whatever that means.

The question you shd answer is, how many devises of saran did Apst Paul expose and shame? Show me with scriptures pls.

OkCornel:

Colossians 2 v 8-10;
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and [b]the elemental spiritual forces of this world
rather than on Christ.[/b]
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.
OKcornel. Can't you see that the bolded testify against you?
What are The Elemental Spiritual forces of this world?
Have you seen that Apstle Paul in so clear terms warns that we steer clear from elemental spiritual forces which are demons and focus on Christ?
Have you seen that that scripture supports my point from the beginning?


OkCornel:

You can see Paul clearly stating in the scriptures that believers are not ignorant of the devices of the devil. Bring out the works of the kingdom of darkness, expose it to the light and shame them with testimonies of triumph in Christ over them.
If that is what you want that scripture to mean, it will mean that to you, but within context, that is not what it says. Apostle Paul didn't say you shd bring the works of satan to light and expose them. He says stay away from people who wld want to deceive and crowd you with these philosophies. People who wld want to make you focus of the demons instead of the on Christ
That is what that scripture says.

OkCornel:

No one would have that excuse of ignorance of the devices of the devil all in the name of focusing on pleasing God. These are warnings.
You wld be walking on your own as Christ never called you into that ministry.
Again. The device of the enemy within context is Malice and unforgiveness. Pls stop talking scriptures out of context.

OkCornel:

On the other hand, Paul also admonished in Colossians 2 v 8, no one should be distracted by matters as these (i.e. works of the kingdom of darkness) and make a philosophy out of them. The distracted ones, and the ones pre-disposed to fear would have the tendencies of falling into the error of focusing on what the kingdom of darkness can do, rather than the testimonies of victory over them.
This is completely wrong sir. Apst Paul says, Don't let anyone fool you by using senseless arguments. These arguments may sound wise, but they are only human teachings. They come from the powers of this world and not from Christ.
Read carefully. He didn't say 'No one shd be distracted. He says ('Dont, let anyone fool you'), in other words, do not allow anyone deceive you into human teachings about the powers of this world.
What are the powers of this world? Exactly what EnthronedbyGod was doing is what that scripture warns against.

OkCornel:

That is why I have been shouting myself hoarse many times on that thread, the focus should be on the testimonies of victory...and not just the works of wickedness in the kingdom of darkness.
No one send you that work in the first place, so no matter how noble you seem, it still falls flat and ungodly.

OkCornel:

Exposing the works of darkness to the light, and sharing testimonies of triumph over these is not the same thing as eating food offered to idols and fornication the Pergamos church was guilty of.
For crying out loud. You came up with the mistakes of the Church of Pergamum and according to what its written there, these were the things the Lord holds against them.

So far, your arguments hasn't shown the mistakes of these Churches.

And ,I'm here for you to show me their mistakes. But, if critically observed, what you call their mistakes are the same mistakes EnthronedbyGod has been making which we have been screaming against.

2 Likes

Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkCornel(m): 8:32pm On Sep 04, 2019
Anas09, the truth is too plain for everyone on this thread to see what the mistake of the Pergamos Church is here.

Tolerance for idolatry (eating food offered to idols) and fornication.

How does exposing the works of darkness and testimonies of victory over them automatically translate to eating food offered to idols and fornication?

1 Like

Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by Anas09: 8:55pm On Sep 04, 2019
This is a long post, so, I'd shorten it.
OkCornel:

DOCTRINE OF BALAAM CONT'D - HOW THIS A STUMBLING TODAY ON CHRISTIANS, LIKE THE PERGAMOS CHURCH AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.
Focus on the mistakes as you said.

OkCornel:

Anas09, recall the economic, socio-cultural and paganistic setting of the city of Pergamos prior to when the gospel of salvation and the kingdom of God got there and the church was established.
This is irrelevant as you had already stated this.

OkCornel:

The church (i.e. ekklessia or called out ones or believers) in Pergamos prior to being saved, would have lived their lives seeing idolatry and sexual immorality as the norm and way of life, as though there's nothing absolutely wrong with it. But unfortunately, the traditions of men cannot be substituted for the standards of God.
What has this to do with the errors of the pergamum believers?

OkCornel:

Having heard the gospel, and taken their decision to follow Christ and living spirit-led holy lives bearing fruits of repentance...unfortunately, the corrupters of truth among them, those who mix traditions of men with the truth out of ignorance or for ulterior motives began to sow seeds of tolerance for age-old Pergamos culture and beliefs within the church. That explains why they had a mixed report card from Jesus in the book of revelation, as believers were partly following the truth of Christ teachings on one hand thus leading to the good works they were commended for, and partly following the Pergamos culture of sexual immorality and feasting on foods offered to idols.
I believe I listed out the things the Lord called them out for. I was expecting you'd dwell on them, but you are not. Why?

OkCornel:

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if there were believers in Pergamos who wrongly interpreted Paul's teachings on food offered to idols in 1 Corinthians 8 v 1-7 to justify their actions, despite Paul's warning in verse 9 to 13
Are they different kinds of food sacrificed to idols? The same thing Paul warned against, the Master frowns at, because Paul was declaring the mind of the Master. How can that be misinterpreted?

OkCornel:

WHAT IS GOD'S REQUIREMENT OF BELIEVER'S TODAY?
God requires those who believes in Him and worships Him in Spirit and Truth to look up to Him for salvation, repent from our past, sinful lifestyles, and keep on this with this life of repentance.
How is this relevant to the Op?
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkCornel(m): 8:56pm On Sep 04, 2019
Anas09:
You are yet to react to my posts.

So far, I have answered the following questions regarding the Pergamos Church

1. Meaning of the seat of Satan
2. The doctrines of Balaam, and how are those doctrines casting stumbling blocks on today's Christians
3. The doctrines of the Nicolaitans

Anas09:

The questionnis, where are these Christians taking precedence from?

The One who called them told them to talk about the Kingdom of God, so where did they see exposing and shaming the kingdom of satan from?
Is there any Christian who knows the kingdom of satan like the Lord Jesus? Why didn't He expose and shame it?

This question you are asking is a joke right? What was Jesus teaching in Matthew 12 v 43-45? What was Jesus teaching in Matthew 17 v 15-21?

Anas09:

Where are the Testimonies of triumph you keep talking about?

After pasting the various screenshots of people's testimonies on that thread, you are repeating this question again? REALLY?

I will refresh your memories with the testimonies again, plus the extra ones that came in the last 3 days.

Anas09:

How many people knew so.much about satan and that knowledge led to their conversion to Christ?
How many turned away from sin as a result of knowing so much about satan?
How many receive power over fear of the devil knowing the ways of satan?

We can start with the number of testimonies of victory na. Plus the numerous testimonies of victory from Kenneth Hagin and other similar ministers. Countless testimonies you are unwilling to look at.


Anas09:

Pls I need you to answer these before you go further

You keep talking about the Testimonies of Victory as if that justifies it.

Why didn't Jesus do this? Didn't He know the Testimonies involved? Were you commanded to do this?
Can you see that Jesus knew that these wld cast fear into people's minds, hence he refused to talk about satan?
Who are you following because it's not Jesus.

Jesus spoke about Satan quite well. As a matter of fact, Jesus conversed with Satan in His temptation at the wilderness. He also spoke about Satan when the 70 He sent out came back with testimonies of good report. He said He saw Satan fall like lightening from heaven. Also, Satan was the enemy referred to that sowed tares among the wheat while men slept. Satan was the one referred to as the wicked one that snatches the word from the heart of people that never understood it, when He was preaching about the parable of the seed.
Jesus also made to clear to Peter that He interceded on his behalf so Satan will not destroy him.

Anas09:

Hmmm. To an unsuspecting eye, that seems genuine and good intended, but to a sensitive mind, that's a lie.
I asked you and you are yet to answer. Why didn't Jesus do this?
Jesus says as my father has sent me, so send I you.
What did his father sent him to do, preach the Kingdom of God. If He is sending you to do what he did, is exposing and shaming satan what he sent you to do?

Again, I ask you...what was Jesus teaching in Matthew 12 v 43-45 and Matthew 17 v 15-21? Jesus must have been very wrong to also teach Kenneth Hagin extensively on the operations of demons too!

Anas09:

Can't you see that you have misplaced priorities yet by all means are trying to justify your error?


There's no misplaced priority here, rather...you are the one persistently refusing to see the bigger picture at play here.

Anas09:

In the Temple of God we talk God, why are you talking satan in the Temple of God?

And why did Paul clearly admonish believers not to be ignorant of the wiles of the devil? Hmmm?

Anas09:

Who sent you this message is the question youbhave not answered. And I asked again, victory over what? Sin?
Victory over oppression, and yes ... victory over sinful habits. Wait till I bring more testimonies of victories here.

Anas09:

Has knowing satan stopped people from lying, stealing, cheating Lesbianism or Homosexuality?has it stopped people from pride and malice, anger, unforgiveness and murder? Has it delivered people from sex demons? Or hard drugs addictions?

What victory are you even on about?

From let's use the Word of God when making our points, I'm not here to speak my mind. It had to be the Word of God.


Yes it has! The numerous testimonies of victories and triumph proves that!

1 Like

Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by OkCornel(m): 9:21pm On Sep 04, 2019
Anas09:

I talked about Association Whether good or bad, which made the Children of God commit sin against their God, but instead of you to follow in that line, you went off completely to bring in 2Cor 2: 10-12, which as no bearing at all as far as this conversation is concerned.

Now let me tell you within context what Apostle meant to warn believers against and what he meant by The devices of the ebemy.
Read from Verse 1 of 2Cor 2, when you get to verse 7 this is what it says 7When people sin, you should forgive and comfort them, so they won't give up in despair. 8You should make them sure of your love for them.

I will forgive anyone you forgive. Yes, for your sake and with Christ as my witness, I have forgiven whatever needed to be forgiven.

I have done this to keep Satan from getting the better of us. We all know what goes on in his mind.

OKcornel. What is Apst Paul is warning Christians against here is holding grudges and malice which leads to Unforgiveness which can give satan room to hinder believers. Jesus says if you forgive not others, your heavenly father will not forgive you.

'The device of the enemy' Paul meant here is 'Unforgiveness', not exposing satan, whatever that means.

Anas09, Stop twisting the words of Paul. Paul clearly stated DEVICES (Plural) of Satan. Not device (singular) as you are painting it to be. How can unforgiveness (one of the numerous tricks of the enemy) suffice for DEVICES (more than one trick)?

Anas09:

The question you shd answer is, how many devises of saran did Apst Paul expose and shame? Show me with scriptures pls.

Ephesians 2 v 2-3; Ephesians 6 v 11-12; 2 Corinthians 2 v 10-12

Anas09:

OKcornel. Can't you see that the bolded testify against you?
What are The Elemental Spiritual forces of this world?
Have you seen that Apstle Paul in so clear terms warns that we steer clear from elemental spiritual forces which are demons and focus on Christ?
Have you seen that that scripture supports my point from the beginning?

It is because you have chosen a parochial view to interpreting the scriptures, that was why I put 2 Corinthians 2 v 10-12 and Colossians 2 v 8.

Satan's work must be exposed to the light, so no man will have any excuse of ignorance. And as the exposure goes on, weak and distracted believers ought not to focus on (be taken captive) of what the kingdom of darkness is capable of, but rather testimonies of triumph over them. Put those two scriptures side by side, and that is the interpretation. Rather than having a narrow tunnel view interpreting them in isolation of each other.


Anas09:

If that is what you want that scripture to mean, it will mean that to you, but within context, that is not what it says. Apostle Paul didn't say you shd bring the works of satan to light and expose them. He says stay away from people who wld want to deceive and crowd you with these philosophies. People who wld want to make you focus of the demons instead of the on Christ
That is what that scripture says.

Read 2 Corinthians 2 v 8-10 and tell us how Paul was conscious of the DEVICES of the devil in the first place.

Anas09:

You wld be walking on your own as Christ never called you into that ministry.
Again. The device of the enemy within context is Malice and unforgiveness. Pls stop talking scriptures out of context.
Stop quoting Paul out of context! He said DEVICES (Plural) and not device (singular)

Anas09:

This is completely wrong sir. Apst Paul says, Don't let anyone fool you by using senseless arguments. These arguments may sound wise, but they are only human teachings. They come from the powers of this world and not from Christ.
Read carefully. He didn't say 'No one shd be distracted. He says ('Dont, let anyone fool you'), in other words, do not allow anyone deceive you into human teachings about the powers of this world.
What are the powers of this world? Exactly what EnthronedbyGod was doing is what that scripture warns against.

Nonsense, and the evil spirits Jesus was giving His apostles a lecture on how to deal with them are what? Powers of planet Mars? EnthronedbyGod exposed the works of the devil to liberate those suffering needlessly from their ignorance of such. He wasn't teaching people with the intention to go and worship those powers. That is the clear difference here. No one is fooled.

Anas09:

No one send you that work in the first place, so no matter how noble you seem, it still falls flat and ungodly.

For crying out loud. You came up with the mistakes of the Church of Pergamum and according to what its written there, these were the things the Lord holds against them.

So far, your arguments hasn't shown the mistakes of these Churches.

And ,I'm here for you to show me their mistakes. But, if critically observed, what you call their mistakes are the same mistakes EnthronedbyGod has been making which we have been screaming against.


In summary, the mistakes of the Church of Pergamos was tolerating their age old beliefs in paganism (eating food offered to idols) and fornication alongside the teachings of Jesus. Please, how does exposing the works of Satan and testimonies of victory over them automatically translate into idolatry and fornication?

1 Like

Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by Anas09: 9:28pm On Sep 04, 2019
OkaiCorne:

Look at the patterns in the Scriptures;

1) God saved the Israelites from their Egyptian oppressors and called them out of that land to the land He promised them. On mount Sinai, He gave Moses the terms and conditions of the covenant which they were to abide to inclusive of which is "You shall have no other gods before me", "You shall not commit adultery".
Unnecessary. This says nothing relating to the Op.

OkaiCorne:

As time went on, these 10 laws further evolved into 613 instructions which formed the Mosaic Law as we know it. The Israelites broke the terms of the covenant on multiple occasions in the desert, from worshiping the golden calf, to falling to the wiles of the seductresses of Moab as incited by Balaam to commit fornication and idolatry, thus grieving God and meting out instantaneous punishment on the trespassers.[/b]
The bolded are the doctrines of Balaam. And I said this happened as a result of wrong company. Listening to wrong things, seeing wrong things, saying wrong things which eventually led to wrong actions. And all these happened in the camp of satan, not God. And I said, in the Camp of God, we talk God. So why was EnthronedbyGod not talking God but satan? You justify that by saying he was focusing on the victories. Which victories?

Haven't you seen from the scriptures you pulled up that dwelling on the things of satan does not push people away from satan, but pulls them in?

Which victories did the Islraelites record by listening to the wrong things of Moab?

[quote author=OkaiCorne post=81814680]
2) God saved the believers in Pergamos and called them to live a holy lives in accordance with His will. The expectation was to live spirit-led lives with repentance from their past sinful lives.
Yes, but they had people like EnthronedbyGod in their midst who kept telling them about things they didn't need to hear, which led to them falling into doing them.

What you listen to, you become.

OkaiCorne:

Unfortunately, they began to make excuses and tolerate sinful lifestyle of sexual immorality and idolatry (eating food offered to idols) within their midst. Jesus warned them sternly about this in Revelation 2. God's standard cannot be compromised to accommodate a willful sinful lifestyle.
Yes, but eating food sacrificed to idols today may no necessarily be literal Eba and soup. We are told to eat the Word of God, what that means is that, reading or listening to the Word of God can be termed eating it.
If we are fed with wrong teachings, we are being fed with food sacrificed to idols because those teachings will pollute us.

Secondly. Committing fornication doesn't only mean having sex outside marriage. It means embracing other ideologies outside of Christ's.

So, if teach the people teaching which will make people have other ideologies different from the teachings of Christ, you are leading people to commit fornication. Read the book of Isaiah and Jeremiah and see how God kept saying the Israelites were committing fornication and Adultery because they embraced other gods.
OkaiCorne:

Look at what is happening in the Church today;
Today, the church is rife with lopsided messages of salvation more often without repentance. All sorts of doctrines are coming up to justify and tolerate sinful lifestyle (a lifestyle where people derive pleasure from sin and actively seek the thrill for it) under the guise that "we are saved".
You may be mistaking denominations to mean 'The Church'. Sir. The Church of Jesus is good. No one can corrupt the bride of Christ. No one pollute the wife of the Master.

The Lord and Apst Paul warned that we wld see what is happening today in the world, and it is happening. People arw repenting genuinely everyday. People serving God genuinely. You are not seeing because your mind is seeing what you want it to see. And, it's not even for you to see. Mind your bizness. You are not the Husband of the Church. So, run your race.
OkaiCorne:

Jude saw this coming, little wonder he wrote of this in Jude 1 v 4;
For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
Why then are you surprised that prophecies are being fulfilled?

OkaiCorne:

Now we see doctrines of fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, and distorted teachings on Grace prevalent in the church today.
Are these the mistakes of the Church Pergamos which you said they committed?

You made it seem like they made mistakes of not knowing more about the dev hence they fell into sin. That's why I opened this thread.

How did their mistakes connect with what EnthronedbyGod was doing in his thread?

OkaiCorne:

Any message of salvation without repentance is a perversion of the truth that would lead many to deceit and destruction.
This is not the Op. Pls focus on the Op.
Re: The Mistakes Of The Churches Of Thyatira And Pergamum by Anas09: 9:56pm On Sep 04, 2019
OkCornel:

Anas09, Stop twisting the words of Paul. Paul clearly stated DEVICES (Plural) of Satan. Not device (singular) as you are painting it to be. How can unforgiveness (one of the numerous tricks of the enemy) suffice for DEVICES (more than one trick)?
Can you pls explain within contexts what occasioned Paul to say "We are not ignorant of the devices of the enemy. And If I remember correctly, I mentioned malice, unforgiveness, anger, pride etc. Or you didn't see them?
OkCornel:

Ephesians 2 v 2-3; Ephesians 6 v 11-12; 2 Corinthians 2 v 10-12
What do these scriptures say? I can't remember just posting chapters and verses to you. Post and explain them.

OkCornel:

It is because you have chosen a parochial view to interpreting the scriptures, that was why I put 2 Corinthians 2 v 10-12 and Colossians 2 v 8.
One has no bearing with the op at all, anf the other one testifies against you.

OkCornel:

Satan's work must be exposed to the light, so no man will have any excuse of ignorance. And as the exposure goes on, weak and distracted believers ought not to focus on (be taken captive) of what the kingdom of darkness is capable of, but rather testimonies of triumph over them. Put those two scriptures side by side, and that is the interpretation. Rather than having a narrow tunnel view interpreting them in isolation of each other.
Those scriptures are not even related so how can they be talking about exposing satan?
One says to forgive so that satan will not take advantage of the believers, the other warns believers to stay away from philosophies that talks about demons.

How you dey interprete scriptures o.

OkCornel:

Read 2 Corinthians 2 v 8-10 and tell us how Paul was conscious of the DEVICES of the devil in the first place.
Paul just like everyone who believes the Bible knows what satan is up to and how he traps people in. That is not the same as dwelling on the activities of satan.

[quote author=OkCornel post=81927015]
Stop quoting Paul out of context! He said DEVICES (Plural) and not device (singular)
Can you tell me what these devises are and how they mean exposing satan?


OkCornel:

Nonsense, and the evil spirits Jesus was giving His apostles a lecture on how to deal with them are what? Powers of planet Mars?
Where did Jesus give a lecture about evil spirits?
Lol. So, This cannot go out except by fasting and prayer, is giving a lecture about a demon?
Okay, what name did Jesus call the demon? Which hierarchy did He say the demon operated? And, how did Jesus say the demon manifests?
Answers this pls.

OkCornel:

EnthronedbyGod exposed the works of the devil to liberate those suffering needlessly from their ignorance of such. He wasn't teaching people with the intention to go and worship those powers. That is the clear difference here.
Who is his predecessor who did it for him to follow? Isaiah, Jeremiah, David, Daniel, Jesus, Paul, Peter? Who?
No matter how noble you try to paint this, it won't pass. The commission is, 'Go into the world and preach the Good News'. That is what liberates and sets free, not knowledge of satan and hiw he works.

OkCornel:

In summary, the mistakes of the Church of Pergamos was tolerating their age old beliefs in paganism (eating food offered to idols) and fornication alongside the teachings of Jesus. Please, how does exposing the works of Satan and testimonies of victory over them automatically translate into idolatry and fornication?
Who called you into the ministry of exposing satan? And which victories do you keep talking about?

There's no victory except against the victory over Sin and death, and that only comes by hearing the Word of God, not the Word of demons that you and yours preach.

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