I am a BIG fan if not a disciple of both Robert Greene and Nicholo Machiavelli, while Machiavelli died about 500 years ago ( 1527), Greene is still alive and soaring high, the two men  are no doubt the two greatest FORCES in the theory of power,

On publication in 1529, two years after Machiavelli's death, his book ,The Prince ,shocked the entire Florentine republic and Europe with its abandonment of conventional wisdom and advocacy for ruthless tactics in getting and holding unto power, while no doubt, the books advice is Amoral, it has gone a long way to become a kind of Power bible among many corporate managers , individuals, power elites and brokers, Nearly five hundred years later, in the year 1998, Robert Greene, A Jewish American came up with his brilliant[b] The 48 Laws of Power.[/b], an obvious modern version of Machiavelli's The Prince , though published just 12 years ago, The 48 laws of power has gone to become so famous around the world, one bloger recently accused President Barack Obama  of using the patterns of The 48 laws of power to run his historic 2008 successful presidential campaign,

While the central message and philosophy of Machiavelli's The Prince is Ruthlessness and cunning , Greene's The 48 laws of Power is no doubt mercilessness , mobility and subtlety, when the two books are compared to holy Bible, The Prince will be considered the Old testament while The 48 laws of power is ultimately the new testament of power.

I was just wondering if the two men were consulted by the northerner and the south south to advice them on what to do on the issue of Zoning and the 2011 elections, what their advice will be to the different parties.

For Machiavelli, i personal think he will advice the northerners the following.

1, Let some of your governors play along and pretend to support Gej, and disappoint him on the day of election, ( after all, machiavelli said in his book The prince, I hold it unto men to avoid insult and threats for neither of them diminish the strength of the enemy, the former makes him to hate you while the later makes him cautious, for it is enough to ask a man to surrender his sword without telling him that you intend killing him with it, once you have the sword , you can now do what ever you wish) .

2, Deceive Igbos by telling them that you will hand over power to them in 2015 if they support you in 2011 and  after they have supported you to win the 2011 election, disappoint them in 2015 if you want,  ( after all,  Machiavelli said in his book,  The prince, A prince need not keep his word or promise when it is disadvantageous or when the need  that prompted the promise no longer exist, this is because men are wretched creatures who will not keep their promise to you,you are not bound to keep your own promise with to them)

3, kill Gej so that Sambo will immediately take over power, ( Machiavelli is notorious for his advocacy of amoral tactics and ruthless action to acquire power and he advised a Prince not to be timid in taking such action as Murder, but let it be done once and for all)


As for the South southerners, Machiavelli will advice them the following,

Do not be bothered for taking over northern slot because yaradua died, and do not give it to them in 2011, if Obsanjo had died in the throne while he was president, Atiku would have taking over from him and will not have returned it to the south in 2003, he could have seized the power and ruled as much as he can, Machiavelli will further advice, as you go into 2011 election, use any means to win and hold unto power, make an exemplary action against any northerners who opposes you , but do every thing to have the good will of the masses, after the 2011 elections, use appointments to win some norther leaders over, but deny them military power.

Later, i will post what i think Robert Greene will advice the two parties, but i am sure he will advice  the northerners, NEVER OUTSHINE THE MASTER ( GEJ)

Readers of both Machiavelli The Prince and Greene's  The 48 laws of power, what do you Guys think Greene and Machiavelli will advice the northerners and the south southerners on the issue of zoning and 2011 presidential election.

banom:

i will poster later what i think Robert Greene will advice the two parties,

Big Banom

Nice article . . . . . .But I was almost ''killed'' by the above statement in BOLD

@ Banom

What a wonderful conjecture u had there.

I am a pupil of Machiavelli bt not Greene because one is original while d latter is just a cataloguer of other masters' ideas.

My best is Sun Tzu. His ideas r robust, matured and glorious. On such situation as u hav raised, he'd opened wt ' d sword is an ill omen, never draw it out unless its use is inevitable'. Dn he'd gone ahead to remind u dt d best victory is dt won without recourse to battle. Finally, he'd asked u to consider d seven grounds and make ur moves accordingly while keeping d form of water.

chosen04:

Big Banom

Nice article . . . . . .But I was almost ''killed'' by the above statement in BOLD

Baby you are looking for your guy's trouble, where did i say what you bolded above ?, mind yourself , i will slap you ooo, have you finished that money i gave you the other day ?

BTW, baby you know i am not happy with you, i cant seem to understand why my intelligent queen will always be supporting criminals and oppose  progressives, even when you know your bobby is a progressive, besides, i opened that romantic thread i told you about and you couldnt come for our chart, why why why ?

has another guy taking over my place ?

homerac7:

@ Banom

What a wonderful conjecture u had there.

I am a pupil of Machiavelli bt not Greene because one is original while d latter is just a cataloguer of other masters' ideas.

My best is Sun Tzu. His ideas r robust, matured and glorious. On such situation as u hav raised, he'd opened wt ' d sword is an ill omen, never draw it out unless its use is inevitable'. Dn he'd gone ahead to remind u dt d best victory is dt won without recourse to battle. Finally, he'd asked u to consider d seven grounds and make your moves accordingly while keeping d form of water.

Great guy,

I feel so happy to see a Sun TZU reader here, i have been reading The ART OF WAR for 12 years now, i read it twice every year, at times i get frustrated that i dont see any guy to share or discuss those strategies and tactics with,  you and i will keep each other company here with the discussions of those books, meanwhile do you stay in ABUJA or nearby ?

Secondly, i strongly think it is wrong  for you not to consider Greene's work original, the guy is just great, he is a genius, have you read all his works ?, The 48 laws of power, The art of Seduction , The 33 Strategies Of war, and  The 50th Law in colaboration with the rapper 50cent,  i love his four works and they are all master piece,

If you have read the 33 startegies of war, you will see where he explained how he writes, he used the same Master Mind communication strategy obviously invented by Machiavelli in his book The Prince, and Greene examplified the strategy with Machiavelli's The Prince and the great 20th century hollywood director, Aldred Hitchcook,

I have read many books on strategy and war including carl Von Clauzwart's On War, and Miyamoto Musashi's The book of five Rings,  I have also read other chinese treatise on war and strategy like The 36 chinese strategems ,and i have equally read  all mario puzo's series including  the God father,  but i can authoritatively say that Greene is far greter and more intelligent than all of them , if you have read  The art of Seduction, did you watch Obamas 2008 presidential campaign ?. what can you say about the brilliant campaign and the brilliant startegies in Greene's  The Art of Seduction ?

banom:

Great guy,

I feel so happy to see a Sun TZU reader here, i have been reading The ART OF WAR for 12 years now, i read it twice every year, at times i get frustrated that i dont see any guy to share or discuss those strategies and tactics with, you and i will keep each other company here with the discussions of those books, meanwhile do you stay in ABUJA or nearby ?

Secondly, i strongly think it is wrong for you not to consider Greene's work original, the guy is just great, he is a genius, have you read all his works ?, The 48 laws of power, The art of Seduction , The 33 Strategies Of war, and The 50th Law in colaboration with the rapper 50cent, i love his four works and they are all master piece,

If you have read the 33 startegies of war, you will see where he explained how he writes, he used the same Master Mind communication strategy obviously invented by Machiavelli in his book The Prince, and Greene examplified the strategy with Machiavelli's The Prince and the great 20th century hollywood director, Aldred Hitchcook,

I have read many books on strategy and war including carl Von Clauzwart's On War, and Miyamoto Musashi's The book of five Rings, I have also read other chinese treatise on war and strategy like The 36 chinese strategems ,and i have equally read all mario puzo's series including the God father, but i can authoritatively say that Greene is far greter and more intelligent than all of them , if you have read The art of Seduction, did you watch Obamas 2008 presidential campaign ?. what can you say about the brilliant campaign and the brilliant startegies in Greene's The Art of Seduction ?

You read and enjoy all these war books, yet you dis-credit HENRY OKAH for reading books on guerrilla warfares and taking notes of them.

What an IRONY!!!!

Banom my guy,

Abeg no vex say I no respond Sharp Sharp. Na garri money wey I dey find no gree me.

I live in lagos and I am avid lover of strategy of engagement topics, majorly combat and negotiatons. Afterall both two halves of a split bean.

In my very own opinion, Robert Greene simply distills other masters' works and uses his brilliant skill as a seasoned writer to present them to a contemporary generation. An act wc is no really a crime or imbrilliance. But dt doesn't equate him wt d original masters. Though no man is an island of knowledge, bt u c d difference in hw d masters only have corresponding events to cite frm while our man simply quote others as listed in his bibliography.

Also, d impression painted by Greene is dt of a perfect square cut unemotional siberian born Russian KGB version of James Bond. Nichollo Macchiavelli's creation is dt of a ruthless and insensitive dictator dt owe not even his mother a dint of moral obligation. Sun Tzu produced a manual of unwilling bt unstoppable battle leader and went on to show how combat maneuvers is replicated in art of political governance. Master Mao Tse Tsun puts all better when he said politics is war wtout bloodshed while war is politics wt bloodshed. But d Japanese hav a more civil expression in saying business is war. Funnily, d converse is also true; war is business.

Master Mao Ws a hawkish administrator of Sun Tzu school whose style could only hav suited his post world war/Korean war and cold war regime when he actually existed. Dts probably y he Ws successful and able to achieve so much. Had same school of leaders been in China by now, she would hav been a pariah nation at d best wt another period of cold war wt d west. But d philosophy is more of midstream wt d present generation, Dts y u n I feel cool about them currently.

Nicolae Ceausescu of Romania Ws a typical representation of Macchiavellian school. His outdated brutal medieval age fashion of administration earned him a Christmas day summary execution by his own people.

A Robert Greene model of leader is not existent, at least not yet. Maybe d antichrist personality will b d best fit. But as described earlier, person of such perfection can only be found in holywood. Although I remember him making cases for different situations, I can't remember him making moral basis for any. Wc makes me hav less admiration for his poached styles.

In summary, though moral is less discussed in today's day to day affairs, it is nevertheless a strong character index in current theories of engagements albeit hypocritically. Master Sun's teachings reflects a non adventurous bt resolute considerations which can only be a thought of seasoned and wise sage.

Unfortunately, I am yet to lay hands on Clautzwarts and Mushishi's works. Though I won't mind if u will send me a soft copy of any if u hav. Probably it will influence my leaning.

Peace brother.

@ homarec,

That was great to hear, wait ooo, you sell or you buy garri ?

I still cant understand your beef with Greene, any way i wont persuade you to believe other wise, but i found him exceptional, infarct he has the greatest influence over my life, so unfortunately, i do not have the soft copy of Clauzwart and Musashi's book, and we are not staying any way close,but i am too sure you will get them in major book shops shops in Lagos.

Meanwhile have you read Greene's The 33 strategies of War, ? if you have, i would like us to start discussing the strategies one by one and see their real life application in our society, if you have not, then we can start the exercise with Sun Tzu's the art of war, Waiting , , .

this people have started using your brains again

chosen04:

You read and enjoy all these war books, yet you dis-credit HENRY OKAH for reading books on guerrilla warfares and taking notes of them.

What an IRONY!!!!

What else can i say, we were discussing important issue and important people, you suddenly brought in your cohort henry Okay, a criminal , terrorist and a foolish unpatriotic Nigerian who would bomb the progressives on our dearest day,

Dont worry, the investigation is still on, i wont be surprise if i ever hear that Chosen0444444 was implicated, after all , you and your criminal Uncle, Ngige, nearly Bombed your way to awka government house, if not that our God intervened.

Goodluck to every Body in Nigeria

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of the battle. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
- Sun Tzu

Nice thread.

bombay:

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of the battle. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
- Sun Tzu

I agree with that.

:-x :-x :-x

Bookmarks thread and makes a mental note to come back later

Master Sun says:

It's better to keep a nation intact dn to destroy it. It's better to keep an army, division,battalion, and unit intact dn to destroy it.( Du You interprets as: its best of an enemy nations comes and surrenders of its own accord(thru negotiaton). To attack and defeat is inferior to ds)

Niccolo Machiavelli says:

A prince is always compelled to injure dos who hav made him d new ruler, subjecting them to d troops and imposing other endless hardships wc his new conquest entails.

If a ruler wants to keep hold of his new possession, he must bear two things in mind: first , dt d family of d old prince must b destroye; next, he must change d law of their taxes.

Machiavelli's work is at best a treatise for proactive expansionists (imperialists), While Sun Tzu is reactionary.

It's only obvious from above segregation dt Machiavelli's doctrines is outdated wt d current civilization and has only few and extreme applications. Sun Tzu's doctrines r more in consonance wt modern day politics where u live-and-let-live while also prepared to strike deeply,effectively, quickly and withdraw.

homerac7:

Machiavelli's work is at best a treatise for proactive expansionists (imperialists), While Sun Tzu is reactionary.

It's only obvious from above segregation dt Machiavelli's doctrines is outdated wt d current civilization and has only few and extreme applications. Sun Tzu's doctrines r more in consonance wt modern day politics where u live-and-let-live while also prepared to strike deeply,effectively, quickly and withdraw.

I agree with you, though i personally think that Machiavelli based his amoral philosophy on his pragmatic understanding of human nature, and also do not forget that he advocated acting out of necessity than in terms of good and bad, and human nature is timeless and universal,

i personally operate by integrating Mater Sun Tzu and Machiavelli's idea to give me inspiration on each situation.
but wait, you sure love sun Tzu,

@ homerac7,

You seem to base your acceptance of an authors work on morality, but you and i knows quite too well that War for instance is beyond good and evil. and life is war.

^^^

Banom my man, nothing do u at all!

Yes, I have great respect and admiration for Sun Tzu. My reservation for Machiavelli is not to claim dt his strategies r inferior or untrue. Rather from experience, I have learnt dt it calls for rapid, merciless and total usurpation. After wc u start to fortify ur positions n throw picemeals to d masses to keep them from rising against u. Like I mentioned b4, its a perfect template for imperial expansion, wc d human nature will sooner or later revolt against. It's a guide to sure but temporal success, u earn greater enemies alliances as end.

On d other hand, Sun Tzu is more conservative. He teaches more on preparation, sustenance,invasion and evasion. It's a more tactical approach dt is meant to create a sustainable conquered territory.

But basically, they r different in dt Machiavelli's treatise is more on individual ruler character while Sun Tzu is on an army discipline and strategy as indivual unit. A proportionate blend of d two schools is more holistic doctrine of engagement t ;Do me.

Why anyone would have to read a book to learn how to be a "real" man is still beyond me. Everytime I see people extolling books like those from Green and Macchiavelli(?), I'm always astonished. Well, I guess its okay to dream other people's fantasies. You can't "Learn" how to become a leader.You're either born a leader or you're not. No book can teach you the art of split second decisiveness if its not part of your natural instincts already. Nor, can you get taught the cruel, merciless act of mindless, indifferent brutality if you don't have the stomach for it. I'm not denigrating anyone's reading habits, but, You can read The Art of War, or literature written by Pol Pot himself, all you want the point remains: YOU ARE EITHER BORN WITH IT OR YOU WEREN'T. Niccholo's words will keep amazing you, and that's where its gonn end!

jaygetta:

Why anyone would have to read a book to learn how to be a "real" man is still beyond me. Everytime I see people extolling books like those from Green and Macchiavelli(?), I'm always astonished. Well, I guess its okay to dream other people's fantasies. You can't "Learn" how to become a leader.You're either born a leader or you're not. No book can teach you the art of split second decisiveness if its not part of your natural instincts already. Nor, can you get taught the cruel, merciless act of mindless, indifferent brutality if you don't have the stomach for it. I'm not denigrating anyone's reading habits, but, You can read The Art of War, or literature written by Pol Pot himself, all you want the point remains: YOU ARE EITHER BORN WITH IT OR YOU WEREN'T. Niccholo's words will keep amazing you, and that's where its gonn end!

That is your own view any way, but i personally read books due to the nature of my job, I am an election campaign strategist and i need to read a lot at least to be able to some extent predict my opponents actions/reactions. election campaign is one of the toughest job on earth.

@Banom,   please i will like to ask u a questn about your job as election campaign strgist,i love that job,i want to be one,please how do i go about it,am not a political sc student but an economics student,do i still have a chance to be an election campagin strgist?i will be greatful if u explain to me how to go about it. thanks my email is joseph.yusuf49@yahoo.com. Please were in lagos can i buy robert greene and niccholos machiavelli books? Waitin 4 your reply, thanks.

Hmmmmm Banom,

Now I knw y u r hawkish, in dt case I would apply Machiavelli's principles. Ds just changed d course of d analyses.

Finally, we readers of Go Rin No Sho (The Book of five rings) meet. Nice to know other followers of musashi and sun tzu. I use musashi's techniques too when programming.

"Do nothing that is of no use"
— Miyamoto Musashi (The Book of Five Rings) 

"Whatever the Way, the master of strategy does not appear fast….Of course, slowness is bad. Really skillful people never get out of time, and are always deliberate, and never appear busy."
— Miyamoto Musashi (Book of Five Rings)


and of course the favourite quote of all polymaths and wanna-be geniuses:

"It is difficult to realize the true Way just through sword-fencing. Know the smallest things and the biggest things, the shallowest things and the deepest things."
— Miyamoto Musashi (The Book of Five Rings: Miyamoto Musashi)

bejay247:

@Banom, please i will like to ask u a questn about your job as election campaign strgist,i love that job,i want to be one,please how do i go about it,am not a political sc study but an economics study,do i still have a chance to be an election campagin strgist?i will be greatful if u explain to me how to go about it. thanks my email is joseph.yusuf49@yahoo.com. Please were in lagos can i buy robert greene and niccholos machiavelli books? Waitin 4 your reply, thanks.

man that is very great to hear,

Election campaign strategizing is one of the toughest jobs on earth,  it is very rewarding and exciting, and it can give you a great power while not not been in any position, it is tough because it is a matter of win or loose, and much is always at stake,

To be a strategist, you must first of all understand what strategy is all about, and you must be highly knowledgable in your area of concentration ( election campaign) it needs critical reasoning , ruthlesness , it is war and morality has no place in war, it needs prudence, self control and mastery and an ability to in advance forsee your opponents actions and reactions, understand your opponents strenghts and weakness, ( i once made the following analysis on IBB some months ago https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=514737.msg6804048#msg6804048  and this one too  https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=524206.msg6863340#msg6863340 )

I am just too busy now and will be back soonest to tell you more about it and how you can go about it.

kodewrita:

Finally, we readers of Go Rin No Sho (The Book of five rings) meet. Nice to know other followers of musashi and sun tzu. I use musashi's techniques too when programming.

"Do nothing that is of no use"
— Miyamoto Musashi (The Book of Five Rings) 

"Whatever the Way, the master of strategy does not appear fast….Of course, slowness is bad. Really skillful people never get out of time, and are always deliberate, and never appear busy."
— Miyamoto Musashi (Book of Five Rings)


and of course the favourite quote of all polymaths and wanna-be geniuses:

"It is difficult to realize the true Way just through sword-fencing. Know the smallest things and the biggest things, the shallowest things and the deepest things."
— Miyamoto Musashi (The Book of Five Rings: Miyamoto Musashi)

uhhmm ,more on musashi please. musashi is my man.

I read the first few pages of Niccolo's book before I dumped it. . . If everyone follows the principles of that book there will be no such thing as power. Just violence, hate, wars which will eventually amount to nothing.

Mobinga:

I read the first few pages of Niccolo's book before I dumped it. . . If everyone follows the principles of that book there will be no such thing as power. Just violence, hate, wars which will eventually amount to nothing.

You should have finished it.

@banom am very grateful for the reply.i wil be wait for your next post when u are lase busy.can i be your aprantice?so that when am on holiday i can be with u to learn about the job.i will be very greatful if u can reply me through my email joseph.yusuf49@yahoo.com. thanks

bejay247:

@banom am very grateful for the reply.i wil be wait for your next post when u are lase busy.can i be your aprantice?so that when am on holiday i can be with u to learn about the job.i will be very greatful if u can reply me through my email joseph.yusuf49@yahoo.com. thanks

Great, you have to be a little  patience so that i can have enough time to tell you all the way forward , how has been your day ?