Genesis 3:16--unto the women he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thy shall bring forth children; and thy desire shall be unto thy husband and he shall rule over thee.

That was God saying to Eve having sinned against Him by eating of the forbidden fruit. My question (or questions) stems from the two last lines.


God said "...thy desire shall be unto thy husband and he shall rule over thee" What was the relationship of Adam and Eve like before the fall? Where was eve's desire attached to?

Were they said to be equal before the fall? hence God said "...he shall rule over thee"


Thank you. Happy Sunday

Genesis 3:6

Eve's desire was attached to the tree of knowledge. It was forbidden, therefore the basis for the husband's leadership was wrong, it was established in disobedience.

mikezuruki:
Genesis 3:16--unto the women he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thy shall bring forth children; and thy desire shall be unto thy husband and he shall rule over thee.

That was God saying to Eve having sinned against Him by eating of the forbidden fruit. My question (or questions) stems from the two last lines.

God said "...thy desire shall be unto thy husband and he shall rule over thee" What was the relationship of Adam and Eve like before the fall? Where was eve's desire attached to?

Were they said to be equal before the fall? hence God said "...he shall rule over thee"

Thank you. Happy Sunday

mikezuruki, because I am making the reply to be short and simple as possibly can, if I had left you lagging behind or somewhere in the dark, please dont hesistate to holler.

mikezuruki, Adam and Eve, were co-heirs in the beautiful and alluring world that God had set out before them. It will do you in good stead to accept and agree that Adam and Eve before the fall from grace had experienced and enjoyed the state of being calm, peaceful, untroubled and free from the ills of sin. There was nothing before their fall from grace, that disturbed the tranquillity of their garden of Eden life

mikezuruki, though, I am trying to make this short and simple, I think it is important to leap frog forward a bit and then will come back to return to the above to continue. So I leap frog to Mary and Jesus in John 2:4, where Jesus said to His mother Mary, the following words "Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.""

From Genesis 3:6 and John 2:4 above, woman, by a God design, will always, put forward (plan(s) or suggestion(s)) for consideration by others (i.e. to the first Adam or the second/last Adam) mikezuruki, when one thing is said, the smart person understands three, I trust you're a smart person, who can join the dots to see the emerged picture, so I will leave and return to continue, besides time no boku dey.

mikezuruki, God said "...thy desire shall be unto thy husband and he shall rule over thee", meaning you will put forward (plan(s) or suggestion(s)) for consideration by your husband, but he will reject the decision or your opinion of the subject under consideration.

The first Adam should have overruled the woman because the timing was wrong, the second/last Adam could have also overrruled the woman, but though His hour has not yet come, the timing was right to listen to her suggestion etcetera

I dont want to go into the first half of Genesis 3:16, about "unto the women he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thy shall bring forth children" because it'll turn the reply into information overload and defeat the keep it short and simple purpose, but the second half of Genesis 3:16 about "and thy desire shall be unto thy husband and he shall rule over thee." is explained as you've requested. In the beginning, Adam and Eve were in equal partnership with no one lording the other

Fake virgin mary could be eve. *I am not sure*

MuttleyLaff:
mikezuruki, because I am making the reply to be short and simple as possibly can, if I had left you lagging behind or somewhere in the dark, please dont hesistate to holler.

mikezuruki, Adam and Eve, were co-heirs in the beautiful and alluring world that God had set out before them. It will do you in good stead to accept and agree that Adam and Eve before the fall from grace had experienced and enjoyed the state of being calm, peaceful, untroubled and free from the ills of sin. There was nothing before their fall from grace, that disturbed the tranquillity of their garden of Eden life

mikezuruki, though, I am trying to make this short and simple, I think it is important to leap frog forward a bit and then will come back to return to the above to continue. So I leap frog to Mary and Jesus in John 2:4, where said to His mother Mary, the following words "Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.""

From Genesis 3:6 and John 2:4 above, woman, by a God design, will always, put forward (plan(s) or suggestion(s)) for consideration by others (i.e. to the first Adam or the second/last Adam) mikezuruki, when one thing is said, the smart person understands three, I trust you're a smart person, who can join the dots to see the emerged picture, so I will leave and return to continue, besides time no boku dey.

mikezuruki, God said "...thy desire shall be unto thy husband and he shall rule over thee", meaning you will put forward (plan(s) or suggestion(s)) for consideration by your husband, but he will reject the decision or your opinion of the subject under consideration.

The first Adam should have overruled the woman because the timing was wrong, the second/last Adam could have also overrruled the woman, but the though the His hour has not yet come, the timing was right to listen to her suggestion etcetera

I dont want to go into the first half of Genesis 3:16, about "unto the women he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thy shall bring forth children" because it'll turn the reply into information overload and defeat the keep it short and simple purpose, but the second half of Genesis 3:16 about "and thy desire shall be unto thy husband and he shall rule over thee." is explained as you've requested. In the beginning, Adam and Eve were in equal partnership with no one lording the other

I saw the connection made. Thank you. Insightful

OpenYourEyes1:
Fake virgin mary could be eve. *I am not sure*

I don't get the point you are trying to make here

mikezuruki:
Genesis 3:16--unto the women he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thy shall bring forth children; and thy desire shall be unto thy husband and he shall rule over thee.

That was God saying to Eve having sinned against Him by eating of the forbidden fruit. My question (or questions) stems from the two last lines.


God said "...thy desire shall be unto thy husband and he shall rule over thee" What was the relationship of Adam and Eve like before the fall? Where was eve's desire attached to?

Were they said to be equal before the fall? hence God said "...he shall rule over thee"


Thank you. Happy Sunday

Hello.

Before there was any sin, it was the man to whom God gave the only command of the Garden of Eden. It was his responsibility to teach it to his wife as well when God gave her to him. So, the authority structure existed, but it was honorary, just as Satan's earlier position as a guardian cherub and the positions of the four Cherubim today was and are honorary positions, since God is invulnerable to any attacks at all.

That authority structure only became fully active after Adam sinned and God Himself activated it. He did so, not only because the man was created first, but also because he was not deceived as Eve was. Eve and all women after her were made subject to their husbands and to male authority in the assembly of believers because it was Eve who was deceived, not Adam (1 Corinthians 11:8-10; 1 Timothy 2:11-14).

The issue of desire was also in order to make sure that we would continue to procreate, because sin is actually arrogance. If the Lord did not put in those checks that He did after Adam sinned (for example, closing the way to the Tree of Life and throwing the couple out of Eden; cursing the earth; and the issue in question here), mankind would fail. Through His curse upon the woman, He gave her an instinct strong enough to challenge our new sin nature. That instinct was one to get married to a man. Without it, women would be too arrogant to yield to a mutually beneficial child-bearing relationship. This is evident in the world today. Unless a woman is willing to accept the authority of a man, marriage is simply impossible and the world would be filled with children born outside of stable homes. It is obvious that something like that would not be a good situation for the human race. So, the provision of a natural desire to have a man for herself in a stable and legal relationship made marriage and the stable expansion of the human race a possibility and even a guarantee.

Of course, corresponding to this desire that the woman was given is the man's own natural urge to "leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife." But that was there before the Fall.

As for being equal before the Fall, as I said, an authority structure existed even before the Fall, but the existence of an authority structure does not really make one person of superior or inferior value to the other (1 Corinthians 11:11-12). What it does is provide order to counteract the effects of sin nature (1 Corinthians 11:16). So, it is entirely to keep human relationships stable that the Lord made the authority structure active.

Edited.

mikezuruki:
I saw the connection made. Thank you. Insightful

Thank you for creating the opportunity with this thread to build and/or make others grow in learning. If there's something in the dark, that needs to shine a torchlight upon, please, biko, joor, dont hesistate to shout out about it.

Ihedinobi3:

Hello.

Before there was any sin, it was the man to whom God gave the only command of the Garden of Eden. It was his responsibility to teach it to his wife as well when God gave her to him. So, the authority structure existed, but it was honorary, just as Satan's earlier position as a guardian cherub and the position of the four Cherubim today was and are honorary positions, since God is invulnerable to any attacks at all.

That authority structure only became fully active after Adam sinned and God Himself activated it. He did so, not only because the man was created first, but also because he was not deceived as Eve was. Eve and all women after her were made subject to their husbands and to male authority in the assembly of believers because it was Eve who was deceived, not Adam.

The issue of desire was also in order to make sure that we would continue to procreate, because sin is actually arrogance. If the Lord did not put in those checks that He did after Adam sinned (for example, closing the way to the Tree of Life and throwing the couple out of Eden; cursing the earth; and the issue in question here), mankind would fail. Through His curse upon the woman, He gave her an instinct strong enough to challenge our new sin nature. That instinct was one to get married to a man. Without it, women would be too arrogant to yield to a mutually beneficial child-bearing relationship. This is evident in the world today. Unless a woman is willing to accept the authority of a man, marriage is simply impossible and the world would be filled with children born outside of stable homes. It is obvious that something like that would not be a good situation for the human race. So, the provision of a natural desire to have a man for herself in a stable and legal relationship made marriage and the stable expansion of the human race a possibility and even a guarantee.

Of course, corresponding to this desire that the woman was given is the man's own natural urge to "leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife." But that was there before the Fall.

As for being equal before the Fall, as I said, an authority structure existed even before the Fall, but the existence of an authority structure does not really make one person of superior or inferior value to the other. What it does is provide order to counteract the effects of sin nature. So, it is entirely to keep human relationships stable that the Lord made the authority structure active.

I think I saw the point you were trying to make however I have some reservations. Thanks nevertheless

mikezuruki:


I think I saw the point you were trying to make however I have some reservations. Thanks nevertheless

That is fine by me. My job as a pastor-teacher is to teach the Truth to anyone who will hear it, not to force them to accept what I say in part or in whole, so it's okay for you to have reservations. Besides, even those who are mature in the Truth don't agree on every single thing. Our job is to be loyal to what the Bible says, not to seek to please each other regardless what the Bible says.

You're quite welcome.

mikezuruki:
Genesis 3:16--unto the women he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thy shall bring forth children; and thy desire shall be unto thy husband and he shall rule over thee.
That was God saying to Eve having sinned against Him by eating of the forbidden fruit. My question (or questions) stems from the two last lines.
God said "...thy desire shall be unto thy husband and he shall rule over thee" What was the relationship of Adam and Eve like before the fall? Where was eve's desire attached to?
Were they said to be equal before the fall? hence God said "...he shall rule over thee"
Thank you. Happy Sunday

There was mutual understanding between the first couple.
Adam loved her as his own soul and Eve respected him just like a daughter does her daddy. Genesis 2:18-25

But after eating the forbidden fruit (knowledge of good and evil) both desires to do things their own way. Meaning they now feel like having absolute freedom (independence) from God who supposed to be their grand instructor. Hence each will begin behaving irrational due to the inbuilt nature in them. The male (now irrational) will start treating the female like a second class creature, while the female will always be looking forward to please her man otherwise she'll be intimidated, maltreated or even battered!

Adam and Eve were PERFECT creatures so this curse did not affect them much, they managed to live with the regret throughout their lives.
But their imperfect descendants are now suffering badly due to the curse. No wonder women are now clamoring for gender equality due to so much oppression from males.

However God knew their makeup better, his advice for them is "if they really want to live happily as man and wife The man MUST LOVE his wife, and the woman MUST have DEEP RESPECT for her husband" Ephesians 5:33

Of course THEY ARE NOT EQUALS by nature so each must be well aware of what the other NEEDED for them to continue living together with Bliss!

God bless you!

Maximus69:


There was mutual understanding between the first couple.
Adam loved her as his own soul and Eve respected him just like a daughter does her daddy. Genesis 2:18-25

But after eating the forbidden fruit (knowledge of good and evil) both desires to do things their own way. Meaning they now feel like having absolute freedom (independence) from God who supposed to be their grand instructor. Hence each will begin behaving irrational due to the inbuilt nature in them. The male (now irrational) will start treating the female like a second class creature, while the female will always be looking forward to please her man otherwise she'll be intimidated, maltreated or even battered!

Adam and Eve were PERFECT creatures so this curse did not affect them much, they managed to live with the regret throughout their lives.
But their imperfect descendants are now suffering badly due to the curse. No wonder women are now clamoring for gender equality due to so much oppression from males.

However God knew their makeup better, his advice for them is "if they really want to live happily as man and wife The man MUST LOVE his wife, and the woman MUST have DEEP RESPECT for her husband" Ephesians 5:33

Of course THEY ARE NOT EQUALS by nature so each must be well aware of what the other NEEDED for them to continue living together with Bliss!

God bless you!

There seems to be many twist here. Thank you

mikezuruki:


There seems to be many twist here. Thank you

You are welcome, though curious about the so called twist