Thia is an interesting/educative tread and i must admit we have some healthy folks on here. Katsumoto has a lucid and coherent way of delivering his point that I'm gonna vote for you.

What you see in the social world depend mainly on where you stand - whether you are a realist, liberal or conservative will reflect your judgment and decisions. So there is really no best point of view, its just mine and yours.

cap28 says Obama is working for the elites then i have to implore him to point out a single US president that has taken the opposite direction since Woodrow Wilson. The fact is that the system was designed for the elites, the America Federal Reserve System is the legitimate legal fiscal entity with a Congressional delegated mandate to coin and print money, manage credit and the banking industry, to ensure the American economy maintains stability and health YET it is not either controlled or regulated by the American government . I think it is safe to say the restrainer of the money system are the real owners of the system, they created the first depression, they have a fair share in this crisis and they print money out of nothing, lend it to the America government and take interest from it. Obama cannot do anything about this - it is bigger than him. That is a whole different story.

cap28 - you have to be a realist because your point is pure fact but unfortunately the world likes fiction more - so lets talk fiction.

yeswecan:

Thia is an interesting/educative tread and i must admit we have some healthy folks on here. Katsumoto has a lucid and coherent way of delivering his point that I'm gonna vote for you.

What you see in the social world depend mainly on where you stand - whether you are a realist, liberal or conservative will reflect your judgment and decisions. So there is really no best point of view, its just mine and yours.

cap28 says Obama is working for the elites then i have to implore him to point out a single US president that has taken the opposite direction since Woodrow Wilson. The fact is that the system was designed for the elites, the America Federal Reserve System is the legitimate legal fiscal entity with a Congressional delegated mandate to coin and print money, manage credit and the banking industry, to ensure the American economy maintains stability and health YET it is not either controlled or regulated by the American government . I think it is safe to say the restrainer of the money system are the real owners of the system, they created the first depression, they have a fair share in this crisis and they print money out of nothing, lend it to the America government and take interest from it. Obama cannot do anything about this - it is bigger than him. That is a whole different story.

cap28 - you have to be a realist because your point is pure fact but unfortunately the world likes fiction more - so lets talk fiction.

I totally agree with your comments about the Fed.

I think there have been a few US presidents that have tried to challenge the powerful international banking elite that control the US govt, unfortunately all of these people have paid for this with their lives, Lincoln and JFK are the ones that immediately come to mind.

JFK is the one that im more familiar with, he tried to challenge the international banking elite and was murdered for doing so, one of his  proposals which attracted the anger of the ruling elite was the introduction of a US dollar backed by silver which was to replace the fiat dollar which the fed reserve prints out of thin air, this effectively would have meant that the US treasury would no longer have to rely on the Fed for loans along with  crippling interest , effectively this would have taken power away from the Fed.

its for this reason that many people beleive that  Kennedy was assassinated.  The white washed investigation known as the warren commission concluded that JFK was assassinated by a lone assassin.

Lincoln before him i think also tried to challenge the stranglehold that the fed reserve had over the printing and loaning of money to the US govt and also met with an untimely death, I am not saying that I expect Obama to be any different im simply trying to point out the fact to all of Obama's faithful followers who see him as  a messiah figure that he is not the man they think he is, the sooner people realise this the clearer all his policies and decisions will become.

The international banking elite have been running america for over 100 years - they are made up of some of the most powerful banking interests in the world. They will do anything to protect their self interests, if they could murder Kennedy who himself was a member of the elite, imagine what they would do to Obama if he dared stepped out of line.

So yes, you are right the situation is bigger than Obama and there isnt much he can do about it.

cap28:

I do not know you but i respond to you based on the way you project yourself on here and for the most part you come across as a pretentious wannabe.

Going by your logic, anyone who argues passionately against capital punishment for murderers must equally be a pretentious wannabe murderer.

@cap28
in lincoln's day, there was no federal reserve. The federal reserve was established in 1913 under democratic president Woodrow Wilson, infact Lincoln established a single currency for the whole country.

pres-elect:

@cap28
in lincoln's day, there was no federal reserve. The federal reserve was established in 1913 under democratic president Woodrow Wilson, infact Lincoln established a single currency for the whole country.

thanks for that pres elect, you're right the fed was estblshed in 1913, not sure why Lincoln was assassinated though, i suspect it might be to do with his emancipation of slaves, i know the southerners lost a of lot of money following the abolition of slavery, the southern slave owners must have wanted lincoln dead.

My guess is that Lincoln was assasinated by John Wilkes booth bc mr Booths, like most southerners of his day, believed Lincoln was a tyrant. Lincoln unilaterally made the emancipation proclamation freeing all the slaves in the south. They didn't like it.

But there are conspiracy theories that Lincoln made a single currency for the whole US. This currency was under the control of the govt through treasury dept. The capitalists of the day wanted to control the money but lincoln's govt stood in thier way. The SS was established by the Lincoln administration to protect the US dollar from criminals who wanted to make counterfeit and have some control over the dollar. This put the govt in absolute control of the $ to the chagrin of the 19th century wall street hogs. Yes, the secret service was established Yo control money. So the cospiracy theory is that the capitalists got him killed. In 1913 the capitalists of the day struck a deal with the democratic candidate Woodrow wilson that they will help him win, by causing a split in the republican party, and he will give them federal reserve where they will absolutely control the dollar.

The cospiracy theory goes on to say that all the four presidents that were killed were the ones who had something to do with fighting the banks. Also, the first assasination attempt on a US president was on Andrew Jackson who fought the 2nd national bank to death. He survived the assasination attempt, destroyed the bank and was and still is, the only president to leave office without any debt. 1836.

My thread fon derail, lol.

Cap28 and Pres-Elect,

In its early days, Wall street was controlled by pawn brokers, auctioneers and loan sharks.

If you dig deeper into that turf battle and control of the treasury between Government and Wall street you will end up with same conclusion that the Nazis did in regard to the concentration of capital power in a few hands.

From its inception, and uptil today. . . . the Board of Governors of the Federal Bank are majority Zionists. Nothing happens on Wall street without their approval and consent.

You cannot separate corruption on Wall street from the boardroom of the Feds. The two are interwoven.

,

I have been to the US so many times and as a UK citizen i don't need a visa to get there, I can move to the US anytime i want to but i have chosen not to, the next place that i will be going to will be my father's land - nigeria.

Why are you so concerned about me and my qualifications, try focusing on how your beloved america has failed black people like you and continues to treat you as second class citizens.  Your so caught up in your dream world thinking that you are above africans that you can't see how white america has screwed you up mentally.  They taught you how to hate yourself to the extent that you don't want to be affiliated to the land of your ancestors, the other day i was reading one of your posts headed "thank god for slavery" is it any wonder white people in america treat people like you like garbage.  Who would respect someone who hates themself?

In almost all of your posts you keep trying to convince yourself that you are above africans and how grateful you are to have been born an african american, and yet this great america that you love so deeply has throughout history shown you nothing but hatred and contempt.

I feel sorry for you because you are so confused and twisted, it must be mental torture being you - you're not wanted in the land of your birth and you have refused to embrace the land of your ancestors.

Like i said get ready for the imminent collapse of the US empire - the handwriting is on the wall, and you will be the first one to be affected - you only have to look at all the major cities where blacks are in the majority ie detroit, washington and see the level of unemployment, rising crime and despair, and you will understand what i mean.

Detroit , michigan which is a predominantly black city has been one of the hardest hit since this recession started - the auto industry which used to be a major employer of african americans has shed so many of its workers , unemployment in detroit now stands at  27%  -take a look at the place now:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCm1tQfuHeg&NR=1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eR5bZ-lRL4&NR=1&feature=fvwp


see what corporate america has done to your people:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamL1H-rjhw

is this the sort of place you think i'd want to leave the UK to come live in? you must be crazy??

   

Everybody in Amerikka know that  Nigerians are liars.  Yet all your post are about Amerikka.  Which means Amerikkka STAYS in the forefront on your mind.  And please, u do not want me to start posting pictures about Nigeria or the Carribbeans that cannot stand Nigerians.

Everybody in Amerikka know that Nigerians are liars

. . . . . this is why when we cough the price of oil goes up in NYSE. If we were truthful the likes of you will find us boring and uninteresting. . . . . you will not become part of our community in NL. Our lies are endearing!

People can be SOOO ungrateful you see! Imagine, this bi-racial man risking his own life due to his ethnic make up, by challenging the "norm" and running for office to "right the wrongs" to clean to mess of ANOTHER man who was careless with funds and American lives on and off the battlefield. This Man, Obama, with so many expectations and hard work ahead of him, devote HIS time to try to clean the economy first stating the obvious "it will get worse before it gets better" and when everyone is high off of the "black president" hype, he gets standing ovations but when the reality of his words sets in, he's all sorts of "house nigga", "chicken", "sell out", "punk" and yes even - "devil"! .

People are failing to realize that we have voted in a true champion. He offered bi-partisanship, knowing his every suggestion would be mocked, yet he was willing to take the humiliation and propaganda with open arms. Yes as tax paying citizens we want to be able to enjoy the fruit of our labor and not have to add extra jobs, worries; etc. I understand but the man is under pressure. People wanted to join his campaign with the idea that "when this man gets in to office, we will ALL be rolling in the dough" but failing to realize that in 8 YEARS we sat back and watched Bush's "anarchical" presidential (They Sr. and Jr. Bushs swore they were royalty and treated their terms as if they were) terms destroy every fiber of our old selves and now that he is out of office collecting his "for life" pensions, you all want to divert your anger @ Obama?

No president before OR after Obama, "calls the shots". Presidents do NOT run things they only can yay or nay (veto) bills. Congress and extremely wealthy Americans make the decisions while the president listens, adds his say so and becomes their mouth peice. I am more than positive Obama answers to people but is also making strides to them to look out for common man and not just "bail out" corp.executive companies/employees. Give the man the respect that is due and keep the faith!

President Obama is becoming more weak as the days progress. The man could not stand up against the Republicans on an issue he campaigned against. No tax cuts for the wealthy. And look what he did. He compromised with them on a major issue.

I know what he is trying to do. He is trying to move to the center like former President Clinton did during the early 90s. But the difference between these men, is that Clinton had a record of being a moderate. President Obama has no record of being a moderate, he is a liberal from Chicago. This man is turning his back on his supporters in order to get Republican votes. He needs to understand that Republicans will never vote for him, because of the color of his skin. And when the Tea Party candidates come to Washington at the beginning of the year, he will be in for a rude awakening.

I am highly disappointed in President Obama right now. However, he can redeem himself if he stick to his progressive views he campaigned on.

Democrats we weak as well. They had clear majorities in the Senate and in the House for two years, but they always feared the Republicans filibuster and stone-walling. The Dems with their clear majority should have went on with business with or without Republicans. That Health Care law was poorly passed, just to get Republican votes. And what about the Dream Act? I hope it passes, before more Republicans come to Congress.

What I like about these Republicans, is that they know how to get people on their side. Even though their supporters are idiots, they still know how to play the game of politics. This is something President Obama nor the Dems really know about.

^Ochi, I believe Obama did indeed go back on his word however with competition with Asia (including India) at an all time high, we cannot afford to have a president sit back and negotiate, argue when there can be compromise. That is what bi-partisan means.

In my state of North Carolina almost ALL of our seats (senate) and local judiciary votes have switched from Democrat (my party) back to Republican. Can you imagine the devastating effects a game of "tit-for-tat" would have on Democrats who are NOW the minority if Obama decided to completely shut out Republicans? Majority of those who voted Republican this year are really on the Donkey team but were trying to "teach Obama a lesson" not knowing it is THEIR pockets that will suffer as Republicans aim only to protect investments and their profits, not the common good of the nation. Obama is simply trying to appease both sides although his allegiance is with the Dems.

I am a avid supporter of health. I believe it should be a given right to EVERY human being to be insured and given adequate health coverage/care so I am a bit disappointed with the way the health care system is in America however I know that you cannot make EVERYONE happy, no matter HOW fair one is. I just bite my bottom lip and find out ways that I can help myself and those around me. I agree he should have stood his ground when he said something to the effect of "Remember I am the president" and how HE invited them (Rep.s) to make suggestions. However we know the game, although they are a "pack of idiots" the Republicans are smart enough to know that money is on their side as greed is the foundation of American culture. They represent some of the most powerful decision makers who can buy out people and as much as I hate to admit it, by appeasing them to a certain extent Obama will benefit and gain their trust - at least those who are willing to trade ideas anyway.

Bottom line it is NOT easy what Mr.Obama is doing and trying to do. I am angry at some of his decisions myself but at the end of the day I expected things to get rough. It's common sense. There is no need to declare internal democrat war; this is a recession for God's sake. It takes years to create and many more to fix, one man CANNOT do it alone!

^^^

I see that I have finally met my match. I am glad you are up to date with current events in the U.S. It was my belief that only a few people on Nairaland are worried about what is happening in the United States. Kudos to you my nemesis. It seems like you disagree with me on many things.

President Obama has went back on his word on many things. The tax cut bill is too much for us progressives to swallow. For two years, he campaigned on ending the Bush era tax cuts for the wealthy. The man did not even give a fight. That is why many liberals/progressive Democrats are upset with him. These Democrats had a clear majority, but they wasted the opportunity.

How can we compete with China or India, when we continue to give tax cuts? Especially, when the U.S. needs to pay for two wars. It just boggles the mind, how people can support tax cuts even though we are at war. We need the revenue from taxes to invest in our infrastructure as well as the educational system. If you go to Baltimore City, you will understand what I mean. The infrastructure is aging and the school systems are a mess.

The reason why people are supporting Republicans is, because they know how to fight and control the message. Democrats (my party) do not know how to fight fire with fire. They are more educated than Republicans, but they do not understand politics. I am about start supporting the Green Party if the Democrats continue to let the Republicans walk over top of them.

North Carolina will become more blue, as people become educated. Democrats are thinking about holding their National Convention in Charlotte, North Carolina. However, the American people are fickle. How are you going to support a party that got us into this mess. It took 8 years for them to get us in this mess, and the American people expect President Obama to clean it up.

The bottom line is that President Obama should stick to his views. Americans like seeing a president who has strong convictions. Say what you like or dislike about President Bush, but he did not back down from anyone concerning his views. President Obama needs to be the liberal champion I know he can become. The man needs to push through the liberal/progressive agenda so that we can compete with the rest of the world. Giving bail outs to Wall Street and allowing tax cuts to continue is not something I support.

Ochi_Agha:

^^^

I see that I have finally met my match. I am glad you are up to date with current events in the U.S. It was my belief that only a few people on Nairaland are worried about what is happening in the United States. Kudos to you my nemesis. It seems like you disagree with me on many things.

President Obama has went back on his word on many things. The tax cut bill is too much for us progressives to swallow. For two years, he campaigned on ending the Bush era tax cuts for the wealthy. The man did not even give a fight. That is why many liberals/progressive Democrats are upset with him. These Democrats had a clear majority, but they wasted the opportunity.

How can we compete with China or India, when we continue to give tax cuts? Especially, when the U.S. needs to pay for two wars. It just boggles the mind, how people can support tax cuts even though we are at war. We need the revenue from taxes to invest in our infrastructure as well as the educational system. If you go to Baltimore City, you will understand what I mean. The infrastructure is aging and the school systems are a mess.

The reason why people are supporting Republicans is, because they know how to fight and control the message. Democrats (my party) do not know how to fight fire with fire. They are more educated than Republicans, but they do not understand politics. I am about start supporting the Green Party if the Democrats continue to let the Republicans walk over top of them.

North Carolina will become more blue, as people become educated. Democrats are thinking about holding their National Convention in Charlotte, North Carolina. However, the American people are fickle. How are you going to support a party that got us into this mess. It took 8 years for them to get us in this mess, and the American people expect President Obama to clean it up.

The bottom line is that President Obama should stick to his views. Americans like seeing a president who has strong convictions. Say what you like or dislike about President Bush, but he did not back down from anyone concerning his views. President Obama needs to be the liberal champion I know he can become. The man needs to push through the liberal/progressive agenda so that we can compete with the rest of the world. Giving bail outs to Wall Street and allowing tax cuts to continue is not something I support.

Obama did not have a choice with regards to the tax cuts. The Republicans were prepared to let the Tax cuts expire if they were not renewed for everyone. If Obama played the same game, there would have been tax rises for everyone, including many middle and low income families. That would have had a devastating effect on an economy that is stuttering and needs some kind of impetus. If that happened, Obama would have borne the brunt from most Americans. He is already taking the flak for problems that existed before his presidency. Americans have very short memories and would have punished Obama and the Democrats in two years time.

At this point in time, America does not need any deep-seated political ideology; what it needs are actions that will kick-start the economy and influence job creation. When that is done, then there can be fights over political ideology. The republicans are very inconsiderate and only care about wealthy Americans, their main sponsors. Extending the cuts for the rich is wrong, in that America has a ballooning debt crisis and only extending the tax cuts for the very rich is morally wrong. But Obama's hands are tied.

Katsumoto:

Obama did not have a choice with regards to the tax cuts. The Republicans were prepared to let the Tax cuts expire if they were not renewed for everyone. If Obama played the same game, there would have been tax rises for everyone, including many middle and low income families. That would have had a devastating effect on an economy that is stuttering and needs some kind of impetus. If that happened, Obama would have borne the brunt from most Americans. He is already taking the flak for problems that existed before his presidency. Americans have very short memories and would have punished Obama and the Democrats in two years time.

At this point in time, America does not need any deep-seated political ideology; what it needs are actions that will kick-start the economy and influence job creation. When that is done, then there can be fights over political ideology. The republicans are very inconsiderate and only care about wealthy Americans, their main sponsors. Extending the cuts for the rich is wrong, in that America has a ballooning debt crisis and only extending the tax cuts for the very rich is morally wrong. But Obama's hands are tied.

President Obama definitely had a choice. He could of called the Republican bluff and let the tax cuts and unemployment benefits expire. Americans would have blamed the Republican Party for stone-walling and allowing people out of work to not have unemployment benefits. The Republicans and President Obama were playing the game "chicken" and President Obama lost.

I actually feel that all the tax cuts should expire. It is not good for the deficit that continues to grow. Plus, where in history has a nation given tax cuts to a populace even though they are involved two wars? It just boggles the mind. Both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party needs to be honest with the American people. The tax cuts need to go and some social programs need to be cut as well. I don't think either the Democratic Party or the Republic Party has the balls to tell the American people that they need to sacrifice a little more in order to get the nation out of this hole.

In addition, show me the evidence where the tax cuts for the wealthy have increased the amount of jobs available for the American people. We had tax cuts for 8 years under President Bush the economy continued to decline. No one has showed me that the wealthy will use their money to hire people. The writing is on the wall. That is why I support a progressive tax.

President Obama is becoming a bigger disappointment. Why didn't he ask for 2 years for unemployment benefits instead of only 13 months. The Republican Party will be stronger next year and we will have to go through another battle with extended these benefits. President Obama gave up too much and received so little in return.

Ochi_Agha:

President Obama definitely had a choice. He could of called the Republican bluff and let the tax cuts and unemployment benefits expire. Americans would have blamed the Republican Party for stone-walling and allowing people out of work to not have unemployment benefits. The Republicans and President Obama were playing the game "chicken" and President Obama lost.

I actually feel that all the tax cuts should expire. It is not good for the deficit that continues to grow. Plus, where in history has a nation given tax cuts to a populace even though they are involved two wars? It just boggles the mind. Both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party needs to be honest with the American people. The tax cuts need to go and some social programs need to be cut as well. I don't think either the Democratic Party or the Republic Party has the balls to tell the American people that they need to sacrifice a little more in order to get the nation out of this hole.

In addition, show me the evidence where the tax cuts for the wealthy have increased the amount of jobs available for the American people. We had tax cuts for 8 years under President Bush the economy continued to decline. No one has showed me that the wealthy will use their money to hire people. The writing is on the wall. That is why I support a progressive tax.

President Obama is becoming a bigger disappointment. Why didn't he ask for 2 years for unemployment benefits instead of only 13 months. The Republican Party will be stronger next year and we will have to go through another battle with extended these benefits. President Obama gave up too much and received so little in return. 

You are missing the big picture. The tax cuts to the wealthy 2% tax payers will have minimal impact on the American economy; economists are worried about the impact that the tax cuts for 98% will have on the economy. With people paying more taxes, disposable income becomes smaller reducing the buying power of Americans. Remember that America is a high consumption country and in the short term, it must continue to consume to escape the recession. Previous presidencies assumed that Americans can always consume to stimulate the economy but they did not foresee this current crisis. Obama has identified this problem and he has started with policies that will get America to depend less on internal consumption for growth relying instead on exports. Obama has good ideas but unfortunately, there are too many economically illiterate people around who also happen to be very impatient.

Katsumoto:

You are missing the big picture. The tax cuts to the wealthy 2% tax payers will have minimal impact on the American economy; economists are worried about the impact that the tax cuts for 98% will have on the economy. With people paying more taxes, disposable income becomes smaller reducing the buying power of Americans. Remember that America is a high consumption country and in the short term, it must continue to consume to escape the recession. Previous presidencies assumed that Americans can always consume to stimulate the economy but they did not foresee this current crisis. Obama has identified this problem and he has started with policies that will get America to depend less on internal consumption for growth relying instead on exports. Obama has good ideas but unfortunately, there are too many economically illiterate people around who also happen to be very impatient.

The economist need to worry about this deficit. The United States owes too much money to the Chinese. And the Democrats and the Republicans continued to kick the barrel down. Sooner or later, the tax cuts for all Americans will need to expire, and politicians will need to make some painful cuts into social programs. And when you say that the U.S. is a high consumption country, that is the problem. Americans have relied on their housing market and their consumption to drive their economy. While at the same time they have been exporting their manufacturing sector to the developing world. This is going to have a drastic impact. Americans need to learn to live within their means. That is what got us into this trouble in the first place.

I agree with you, President Obama has some good ideas; he just do not know how communicate them. The man needs to learn how to fight back. With Republicans, you have to fight fire with fire. That is why they were successful in the past mid-term elections.

@Katsumoto,

Obama did not have a choice with regards to the tax cuts. The Republicans were prepared to let the Tax cuts expire if they were not renewed for everyone.

Which would have been a good idea considering that the Republicans would have legislated for the tax cuts to be made permanent for everyone once they control the House. And guess what, that legislation would have passed both in the House and the Senate.

If Obama played the same game, there would have been tax rises for everyone, including many middle and low income families.

This is so lame.  If Obama was concerned about people's taxes, why did he wait till now to start dealing with that issue?  He was more concerned about making a name for himself by pushing the monstrosity we call Obamacare.  Thank God it is on the way to be repealed.

That would have had a devastating effect on an economy that is stuttering and needs some kind of impetus. If that happened, Obama would have borne the brunt from most Americans. He is already taking the flak for problems that existed before his presidency. Americans have very short memories and would have punished Obama and the Democrats in two years time

Let's get something straight.  There was no impetus in this tax compromise.  What this was all about was maintaining the existing tax rate.  Damn, some tax rates even went up!!!  If he wanted real impetus, he should have called for a tax cut. How people refer to maintaining the same tax rates that have been in place for the past 8 years a tax cut is beyond me!!!  Want a real impetus, request a tax cuts across board!

@Katsumoto,

At this point in time, America does not need any deep-seated political ideology; what it needs are actions that will kick-start the economy and influence job creation.

Can you tell me what on earth Obama has done to kickstart this economy. While I may have butt heads with cap28 on this topic, the truth is that I agree with a lot of things that he said. I just can't believe he thinks tax cuts and bailouts are synonymous terms. Obama has spent trillions of dollars and unemployment is still as high as when he started spending, if not worse.

When that is done, then there can be fights over political ideology. The republicans are very inconsiderate and only care about wealthy Americans, their main sponsors. Extending the cuts for the rich is wrong, in that America has a ballooning debt crisis and only extending the tax cuts for the very rich is morally wrong. But Obama's hands are tied.

America's problem is not the rich. It is the government. Future generations of Americans are indebted to China, not because of a rich man, but because of an out of control government. The government will not pull the country out of this mess, it will take the private sector to do so. Common sense dictates then obstacles should be removcved out of the way for this productive sector of the US to make a come back. Increasing their taxes is not the way to do this.

Tayo-D:

@Katsumoto,
Which would have been a good idea considering that the Republicans would have legislated for the tax cuts to be made permanent for everyone once they control the House. And guess what, that legislation would have passed both in the House and the Senate.
This is so lame.  If Obama was concerned about people's taxes, why did he wait till now to start dealing with that issue?  He was more concerned about making a name for himself by pushing the monstrosity we call Obamacare.  Thank God it is on the way to be repealed.
Let's get something straight.  There was no impetus in this tax compromise.  What this was all about was maintaining the existing tax rate.  Damn, some tax rates even went up!!!  If he wanted real impetus, he should have called for a tax cut. How people refer to maintaining the same tax rates that have been in place for the past 8 years a tax cut is beyond me!!!  Want a real impetus, request a tax cuts across board!

Whilst there is no impetus in this tax cut extension, it can be argued that allowing the tax cuts to expire will hurt the economy more. It is obvious that you are not a fan of Obama but implying that Obama is the problem is disingenuous. The problem with America today started during the 8 years of republican rule and it will take more than two years for any human to fix the problems.

@Katsumoto,

Whilst there is no impetus in this tax cut extension, it can be argued that allowing the tax cuts to expire will hurt the economy more.

In other words, the tax rates during Clinton's era are a bad idea. Also, Bush's tax cuts were a great idea. See how everyone is running a way from Clinton's tax rates? Bush reduced it for everyone, while the Dems think they can play politics of envy with it by sticking it to the so-called rich. If making more than $250K yearly is a crime, why not legislate to strip the money form the owners?

It is obvious that you are not a fan of Obama but implying that Obama is the problem is disingenuous. The problem with America today started during the 8 years of republican rule and it will take more than two years for any human to fix the problems.

I am not a fan of liberals, period! It does not matter whether the liberal is Obama, Clinton, Reid or Pelosi. Obama is a problem so far as his ideology is. It's like saying Mohammed is not the problem even though Islam is. How do you separate a man from his ideology! He may mean well, but the effects of being wrong is the same, even if you are sincerely wrong!

If the mortgage crisi led to the economic crash, can you tell us how that is related to tax cuts and to Bush? We all know that the subprime mortgage sold by the Banks was only their response to Clinton's ammendment to the Community Reinvestment Act which was put into law by Carter (all Dems)! We know how Obama was involved in law suits threatening the Banks to honor the law. How can you blame Republicans for this social engineering borne of Dems?

@ Tayo-D

You are acting like America was all bliss until Obama came into the picture - when the reverse was actually the case. Obama inherited a collapse economy, two wars, budget deficit and everything was to the negative.  don't forget that Clinton left with 200 billion budget surplus in 2000.

Well, it is not my intention to go into details as you have clearly displayed your hatred for the great one.  What you see depends on where you stand and you have clearly explained your stand point - plus your inability to see things from a different angle. Engaging in a debate with you will be a waste of time - given the realities on ground before Obama's assumption into office - i believe and still maintain he was the best option.

And i can sense your tacit support for Bush. Funny dude

Why do people continually say 8 years of Republican rule. Do peoples ideology or political affiliation cause them to forget that d Democrats seized control of congress in 2006. Also that for the previous 6 years under "supposed Republican control", its not like they had anything even remotely resembling the majorities d Democrats had since 06 up until recently. People talk as if during the 8 years of a Republican presidency it was unilateral control. That they had d chance to pass legislation with only Republican votes (like d democrats did recently with health care in the senate). No actually d numbers in congress were quite close (meaning that whatever legislation was passed, it had to have a decent amount of support from d other party to get through). So to say d Republican dug the hole all by themselves is pure unadulterated BS. Barrack Obama himself was in the senate voting for the budgets and legislation pushed by his party leaders, so he can't stand aside and pretend this had nothing to do with his own actions.

As someone brilliantly noted above, both parties messed up and continue to mess up because just like politicians they refuse to be honest, cause they too busy worrying about d next election, and d one after that, and the one after that.

Tayo-D:

@Katsumoto,
In other words, the tax rates during Clinton's era are a bad idea. Also, Bush's tax cuts were a great idea. See how everyone is running a way from Clinton's tax rates? Bush reduced it for everyone, while the Dems think they can play politics of envy with it by sticking it to the so-called rich. If making more than $250K yearly is a crime, why not legislate to strip the money form the owners?
I am not a fan of liberals, period! It does not matter whether the liberal is Obama, Clinton, Reid or Pelosi. Obama is a problem so far as his ideology is. It's like saying Mohammed is not the problem even though Islam is. How do you separate a man from his ideology! He may mean well, but the effects of being wrong is the same, even if you are sincerely wrong!

If the mortgage crisi led to the economic crash, can you tell us how that is related to tax cuts and to Bush? We all know that the subprime mortgage sold by the Banks was only their response to Clinton's ammendment to the Community Reinvestment Act which was put into law by Carter (all Dems)! We know how Obama was involved in law suits threatening the Banks to honor the law. How can you blame Republicans for this social engineering borne of Dems?

I really have to dispute your facts on this issue. The Clinton Era tax rates were perfectly fine. The 90s were a good decade for the United States, in which the economy was expanding and more people were working. There has been no proof that the Bush era tax cuts have stimulated the American economy. We actually lost jobs during the Bush presidency. Just because the wealthy get tax cuts, does not mean they will hire more people or spend money to boost the economy. Stop peddling that lie.

BTW, I am a progressive. Do not blame the Democrats for the housing market fiasco. The blames falls on the Republicans and the economic melt down. The rush to deregulation during the mid 90s and 2000s led to the financial meltdown in both Wall Street and the housing market. I do not subscribe to a laissez-fair economy. There needs to be regulations and the Republicans have not figured that an economy needs regulation, since people can be greedy.

yeswecan:

@ Tayo-D

You are acting like America was all bliss until Obama came into the picture - when the reverse was actually the case. Obama inherited a collapse economy, two wars, budget deficit and everything was to the negative.  don't forget that Clinton left with 200 billion budget surplus in 2000.

Well, it is not my intention to go into details as you have clearly displayed your hatred for the great one.  What you see depends on where you stand and you have clearly explained your stand point - plus your inability to see things from a different angle. Engaging in a debate with you will be a waste of time - given the realities on ground before Obama's assumption into office - i believe and still maintain he was the best option.

And i can sense your tacit support for Bush. Funny dude

GBAM

Tayo-D is a republican; nothing wrong with that. I myself have a conservative philosophy but I can never support the way the GOP practices its conservative philosophy. I admit that Obama has made some mistakes but I believe that his actions till today have been largely positive but his leadership is weakened by a campaign of calumny waged by rascist elements and also by an undiscerning and ignorant citizenry.

Nice discussion folks. I have been content to simply read from the audience but some quotes ehn, hmmm . . .

Ochi_Agha:

Do not blame the Democrats for the housing market fiasco. The blames falls on the Republicans and the economic melt down.

hmm . . . have you heard of a certain democrat senator called Barney Frank? the oga on the Financial Services Committee?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-514190.32.html#msg7040854

It would be much more accurate to say that a combination of policies from[b] both[/b] parties contributed to the economic problems America now has - and it would be even more accurate to say we Americans also contributed to it - not just the govt.

---

MzDarkSkin:

I am a avid supporter of health. I believe it should be a given right to EVERY human being to be insured and given adequate health coverage/care so I am a bit disappointed with the way the health care system is in America

My sister, may I ask just one question:
-Who should pay for this healthcare for all? Should single man Mr. Smith, pay for Mr & Mrs Juan and their 6 kids?
-(okay 2 questions) and what about those who refuse to work, should they also retain these 'rights' to healthcare no matter what? Should illegals who don't pay taxes also get this healthcare?
Thanks.
-(sorry I lied, 3 questions) Have you seen the movie "Precious"?

Katsumoto:

GBAM

Tayo-D is a republican; nothing wrong with that. I myself have a conservative philosophy but I can never support the way the GOP practices its conservative philosophy. I admit that Obama has made some mistakes but I believe that his actions till today have been largely positive but his leadership is weakened by a campaign of calumny waged by rascist elements and also by an undiscerning and ignorant citizenry.

I think you weaken and cheapen your points - and considerably so - with the bolded. Every president is ferociously attacked by the opposing party - we didn't call it "racist elements" then, why start now? Because Obama is black?

And I also don't share in the popular sentiment that "Americans are ignorant" and "don't understand these complex policies" etc etc. This I think is an escapist tactic to dismiss the concerns of the populace as "irrational" or "ignorant". While it is true that issues get more tangled as you go deeper, there are general principles and concepts that still remain true. Such as "if you spend less, you tax less" "spend more, tax more" "cut govt' programs-tell the nation to tighten their belts, divert funds into decreasing the deficit" "buy what you can't afford, and you will go bankrupt" "give loans to those who can't repay, you won't get your money back" "do this on a large enough scale, and the bubble will burst/market will crash". As far as I'm concerned, a good amount of the fluff, 'economic' pomp and circumstance, is designed to simply leave us bedazzled and screw us out of more and more from our pockets.

Americans are not ignorant people - for the most part. They may not understand economic-speak, and capitol-hill jargon (note even some senators cannot understand some of the bills they pass without a lawyer explaining it), but for the most part, they know BS when they see it - both Conservs and Libs. Are there measurable chunks of the population whose expectations of govt. are unrealistic? of course. On both sides. And I also blame the politicians for selling them snake-oil and not discouraging them from their pipe-dreaming while they were campaigning and courting them for their vote.

But anyways, Katsumoto, you're making good points in your argument - just the racist/ignorant thing I think did you a major disservice.

JeSoul:

just the racist/ignorant thing I think did you a major disservice.

I do not think the racist racist/ignorant remarks inevitably does Katsumoto any disservice. Much of Obama's aspersion has been from tea part movement which is mostly embroiled in pure colour- racism - i do not think anyone with brain-s will deny that.

yeswecan:

I do not think the racist racist/ignorant remarks inevitably does Katsumoto any disservice. Much of Obama's aspersion has been from tea part movement which is mostly embroiled in pure colour- racism - i do not think anyone with brain-s will deny that.

Well, I firmly deny it. If that means I don't have "brains", then so be it. There is some racism, but it limited to fringe minorities that do not constitute for a second the majority of Obama's antagonists.

Where those who 'hated' Bush (which is a large portion of blacks btw) also racist? Clinton? Bush snr? Presidents get blasted by the opposing parties - the phenomenon did not start with Obama and it will not end with him.

I think one of the greatest handicaps we blacks suffer from is our constant predilection to play the racism card where none exists. It makes it that much harder to take seriously and treat with the appropriate amount of justified anger when actual racism occurs.

I think one of the greatest handicaps we blacks suffer from is our constant predilection to play the racism card where none exists. It makes it that much harder to take seriously and treat with the appropriate amount of justified anger when actual racism occurs.

true, except that nothing in American society is free, end-to-end, from racial coloring.

Are you aware that even Wal-Mart is color coded in its distribution network? Here in the South we have two Wal-Marts. . . the Blue and the Green. The Green is mostly found in minority neighborhoods and the Blue in mixed income to high end communities.

What people express is a reflection of the policies that are end-products of government and corporations alike and these two players control the society and the economy.

I do agree with you though that where other reasons and explanations exist then race outght not be the main theme of discussion.