ImaIma1:


The followers do not even know if their leaders had done blood transfusions in secret to save their own children. Will they tell them?

That's how the church denomination that banned the used of tv then...some of their leaders had TVs in their houses.


That's why it's better to understand the Bible and have a personal relationship with God for yourself instead of gullibly following unfounded and manmade doctrines.

Retract, you don't even understand the Bible yourself.

The Bible says abstain from blood, abstain from fornication , can someone says fornication only means sex through the vagina, if it's through the Anus . It's not fornication ? What difference is there in drinking alcohol through the vein when the doctor says avoid alcohol ?

JustCurious:
That child may be ostracized, eventually by the church.... and treated as an infidel.

We are humans, first, before embracing religion. Let's remain humane.

Ostracized? Do you think the child will care about that when he or she is old enough to understand that the people he calls parents and their brethren preferred him dead?

As long as God that brought that child to life doesn't see him as an infidel, every other reaction is background noise.

ImaIma1:


Ostracized? Do you think the child will care about that when he or she is old enough to understand that the people he calls parents and their brethren preferred him dead?


As long as God that brought that child to life doesn't see him as an infidel, every other reaction is background noise .

Coming from someone who belief dead babies go to heaven
Would God be happy if the child grow up and become an hellfire candidate when dying as a child would have made him an heaven candidate ?

jibovico:
Good and Courageous parents who stood for their beliefs no matter what. May Jehovah reward your stand. Most times we watch movies and always align with the character who stood for his/her beliefs and we applaud. Why don't we now apply such? Well done Faithful parents.

Sarcasm I guess. It has to be sarcasm

ImaIma1:


Sarcasm I guess. It has to be sarcasm

Sarcasm my foot. Parents that prefer dead baby cos of religious beliefs. Their jehovah loves his followers dying for doctrines in fact it gives him orgasms.

Jozzy4:

Coming from someone who belief dead babies go to heaven
Would God be happy if the child grow up and become an hellfire candidate when dying as a child would have made him an heaven candidate ?

What would make the child a "hellfire" candidate?

Jozzy4:


Do you believe when a baby dies, they have no sin and would automatically go to heaven ?

From your premise, the conclusion is that you should allow the baby die since he has no sin?

Jozzy4:


Retract, you don't even understand the Bible yourself.

The Bible says abstain from blood, abstain from fornication , can someone says fornication only means sex through the vagina, if it's through the Anus . It's not fornication ? What difference is there in drinking alcohol through the vein when the doctor says avoid alcohol ?

How come the JW doctrine on blood transfusion has been relaxed? Did the Bible change?

ImaIma1:


How come the JW doctrine on blood transfusion has been relaxed? Did the Bible change?

Firstly, I guess you have no rebuttal to the points raised.

Nevertheless, Bible says avoid/abstain blood , JW's still follow that command.

ImaIma1:


From your premise, the conclusion is that you should allow the baby die since he has no sin?

Am actually using that premise of yours that babies go to heaven when they die.
You know you are the one who beliefs babies who died are automatically heaven candidate, isn't it better to save Lifes by allowing the child to die instead of growing up to be exposed to sin and becoming an hellfire candidate in the process?

ImaIma1:


What would make the child a "hellfire" candidate?

Growing up to know right from wrong. Some people today are theives, prostitutes, fornicators etc . Due to sin that surrounded them, such ones if they died as a baby would have gone to heaven , isn't it ?

Masking:


Which book? The bible or JW publications?
Cos neither does. This screenshot is from this weeks meeting.

If the bible were truly written by ancient men, and not by inspiration from God(2timothy 3:16), how were the writers in the olden days able to decipher those scientifically proven truths recorded in job 26:7 and Isaiah 40:22?? Cos even hundreds of years after, people still thought the earth was flat and being held by 2 turtles.

I still dont get how the bible supports genocide/slavery? Are you talking about warfare in isreal?

Cos the bible clearly shows d law was only a tutor, but you are now under grace, d law of christ

Isaiah 40:22 It is God who sits above the circle of the earth. The people below must seem to him like grasshoppers! He is the one who spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them.

Does God really dwell above the circle of the earth? Is there earth even a circle? In fact, you observe correctly that "even hundreds of years after, people still thought the earth was flat and being held by 2 turtle."

But what you have not realise the that the limited human thinking of that time exhibited in the verse above by Isaiah because, God does "not dwell (sit) in the circle of the earth." Heck, the earth isn't circle at all.

See another below that directly contradicted Isaiah 40:22 quoted above.

Job 26:7 - 9
God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing. He wraps the rain in his thick clouds, and the clouds do not burst with the weight. He shrouds his throne with his clouds.

You quoted Job 26:7 but didn't check what verse 9 says. Here job is saying God covers his throne with clouds. Which cloud? The one above the earth or the one inside the earth? Gods throne is not in the cloud, neither is there any cloud above the earth as science helps us to know.

So, if you are the subscribe to the idea of God sitting (dwelling) above the circle of the earth, how is it any different from those who ahd said "earth was flat and being held by 2 turtles." Both reflect the limited human thinking of that time.

I know you (actually the WT) only focus on the aspects that deals with the earth being circle and in so doing the expose the fact that the ideas in those verse are factually wrong and could not have been inspired by God's spirit.

cc: Bacteriologist

Jozzy4:

Coming from someone who belief dead babies go to heaven
Would God be happy if the child grow up and become an hellfire candidate when dying as a child would have made him an heaven candidate ?

Would God be happy IF JWS KILL or ABORT children instead of ALLOWING them to GROW up and become MEAT of ARMAGEDDON since ALLOWING them to DIE would have made HIM/HER a candidate for PARADISE EARTH.

All condemning the act of the parents unah well done......I just heard that the baby in question is dead

Jozzy4:


Growing up to know right from wrong. Some people today are theives, prostitutes, fornicators etc . Due to sin that surrounded them, such ones if they died as a baby would have gone to heaven , isn't it ?

It seems you are a pessimist. You only.see the dark side. Have you thought about the fact that the child could grow up to be a light to her family, a model child, successful, God loving?

Jozzy4:

Am actually using that premise of yours that babies go to heaven when they die.
You know you are the one who beliefs babies who died are automatically heaven candidate, isn't it better to save Lifes by allowing the child to die instead of growing up to be exposed to sin and becoming an hellfire candidate in the process?

But why are you lying? Where in our discussion did I mention the bolded?

Is this a feature of JWs? Reading their meanings into things, twisting and turning words?

Why not be plain and clear in your discussion? Why are you saying what I didn't say?

rottennaija:


Isaiah 40:22 It is God who sits above the circle of the earth. The people below must seem to him like grasshoppers! He is the one who spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them.

Does God really dwell above the circle of the earth? Is there earth even a circle? In fact, you observe correctly that "even hundreds of years after, people still thought the earth was flat and being held by 2 turtle."

But what you have not realise the that the limited human thinking of that time exhibited in the verse above by Isaiah because, God does "not dwell (sit) in the circle of the earth." Heck, the earth isn't circle at all.

See another below that directly contradicted Isaiah 40:22 quoted above.

Job 26:7 - 9
God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing. He wraps the rain in his thick clouds, and the clouds do not burst with the weight. He shrouds his throne with his clouds.

You quoted Job 26:7 but didn't check what verse 9 says. Here job is saying God covers his throne with clouds. Which cloud? The one above the earth or the one inside the earth? Gods throne is not in the cloud, neither is there any cloud above the earth as science helps us to know.

So, if you are the subscribe to the idea of God sitting (dwelling) above the circle of the earth, how is it any different from those who ahd said "earth was flat and being held by 2 turtles." Both reflect the limited human thinking of that time.

I know you (actually the WT) only focus on the aspects that deals with the earth being circle and in so doing the expose the fact that the ideas in those verse are factually wrong and could not have been inspired by God's spirit.

cc: Bacteriologist

While I agree with most of what you have said I still cannot wrap my head around why the Bible becomes automatically true just because it gets the shape of the Earth slighty correctly.

The shape of the Earth is spherical (flattened at the poles) and not a "circle." A circle is not flattened at any point of its circumference. It makes sense to think that an all-knowing God when inspiring the writers of the Bible, would give the exact shape of the Earth and not some hazy description as the above.

An omniscient God would know the perfect term to use to best get the message it was convening across. A circle is not a sphere.

But again, even if the Bible did say the Earth was spherical it still would not mean the Bible was divinely inspired. The Quran also roughly gets some scientific predictions correctly. I don't see any Christians arguing that the Quran automatically comes from God because of those portions in the Qur'an.

We would have to look at the other areas in the Bible -including the portions in the Bible that have been completely falsified by science - before remotely concluding it agrees with science or that it could somehow have come from a divine source.

Jozzy4:


Firstly, I guess you have no rebuttal to the points raised.

Nevertheless, Bible says avoid/abstain blood , JW's still follow that command.

The points raised are trivial. So I guess people who eat cake also take alcohol too.

Abstain/avoid...whatever. they still follow that command because they had been made to believe the doctrine for decades. Changing it now means it was a mere doctrine that people lost their lives to and not necessarily what the Bible says.

The word of God doesn't change. It is always the same.

Bacteriologist:


While I agree with most of what you have said I still cannot wrap my head around why the Bible becomes automatically true just because it gets the shape of the Earth slighty correctly.

The shape of the Earth is spherical (flattened at the poles) and not a "circle." A circle is not flattened at any point of its circumference. It makes sense to think that an all-knowing God when inspiring the writers of the Bible, would give the exact shape of the Earth and not some hazy description as the above.

An omniscient God would know the perfect term to use to best get the message it was convening across. A circle is not a sphere.

But again, even if the Bible did say the Earth was spherical it still would not mean the Bible was divinely inspired. The Quran also roughly gets some scientific predictions correctly. I don't see any Christians arguing that the Quran automatically comes from God because of those portions in the Qur'an.

We would have to look at the other areas in the Bible -including the portions in the Bible that have been completely falsified by science - before remotely concluding it agrees with science or that it could somehow have come from a divine source.

The writings of the bible reflects the limited human thinking of that time. And worse of all is that is being tampered with by religious apologist like the Watchtower organization, they are not just satisfied by deflecting and explaining away big issues, but they are actively rewriting it.

rottennaija:


The writings of the bible reflects the limited human thinking of that time. And worse of all is that is being tampered with by religious apologist like the Watchtower organization, they are not just satisfied by deflecting and explaining away big issues, but they are actively rewriting it.

It's controversial but I think rewriting the religious texts to further fit in to the overall standards of life today and in future isn't inherently bad.

A lot of people aren't capable of critical thinking (due to education/exposure etc) and avoiding cognitive dissonance when examining their beliefs. (This is not a insult. They can't help it. Most times, belief is not a choice.) And so, many may be incapable of totally dumping it.

It may take a really long time to eradicate religion completely. I personally think it is best to rewrite these books. So that at least we can have less toxic aspects and consequently, better followers.

Religion must evolve if not it will die. This is evident in certain countries of Europe and the West where we now have LGBT Christians and Muslims. Religion is dying slowly there but the death would be faster if they didn't keep up with modern trends.

achorladey:


Would God be happy IF JWS KILL or ABORT children instead of ALLOWING them to GROW up and become MEAT of ARMAGEDDON since ALLOWING them to DIE would have made HIM/HER a candidate for PARADISE EARTH.

You forgot before anyone enter paradise Earth , there is a Test at the end of 1000 years ? Your thinking cap is lost man, are you this daft so how exactly will aborting them make them a candidate of paradise Earth ?

ImaIma1:


The points raised are trivial. So I guess people who eat cake also take alcohol too.

Abstain/avoid...whatever. they still follow that command because they had been made to believe the doctrine for decades. Changing it now means it was a mere doctrine that people lost their lives to and not necessarily what the Bible says.

The word of God doesn't change. It is always the same.

If the point raised are so trivial , Do you now accept someone who accept transfusion all because the blood is not passed through the mouth is not different from a person who accepts alcohol through the vein yet claiming he didn't drink through the mouth ? Or someone who says he has abstain from fornication as the Bible said , all because he had sex from another route different from vagina , the Anus ?

ableguy:

Imaging, keep basking in ignorance

Hev is basking in his ignorance... Agreed. But where did the bible ban blood transfusion?

Jozzy4:


If the point raised are so trivial , Do you now accept someone who accept transfusion all because the blood is not passed through the mouth is not different from a person who accepts alcohol through the vein yet claiming he didn't drink through the mouth ? Or someone who says he has abstain from fornication as the Bible said , all because he had sex from another route different from vagina , the Anus ?

Who did they give alcohol via vein to save the person's life?

dollarnaira:
Only 'quack' doctors treat their patients with blood transfusion.New medicine use alternatives.

Another propaganda... Where are the facts? Where do you get your facts from?

Jozzy4:


You forgot before anyone enter paradise Earth , there is a Test at the end of 1000 years ? Your thinking cap is lost man, are you this daft so how exactly will aborting them make them a candidate of paradise Earth ?

I was thinking with the THINKING CAP that you gave me that's why the said "TEST" will be done in planet PLUTO before BRINGING those that passed the TEST into planet PARADISE EARTH. Hahahahaha.

Within the few sentences you already have "DAFT" and "THINKING CAP". Remarks everywhere.

Let me bring to to your NOTICE what the ORGANIZATION you are a member of TEACH about what happens during the 1000 year reign.


SOME EXPRESSIONS EXPLAINED

THOUSAND YEAR REIGN: After Armageddon, Jesus will rule from heaven with the 144,000 for a thousand years to help humans become perfect and to make the EARTH A PARADISE AGAIN.

“ALL THOSE IN THE MEMORIAL TOMBS”: All those who died and whom Jehovah remembers and will bring back to life.

Or perhaps as from your post above the BABIES resurrected will GO STRAIGHT for the TEST when resurrected. Hahahahahahaha.

Jozzy4: so how exactly will aborting them make them a CANDIDATE of paradise Earth?

Achorladey: the keyword here is CANDIDATE, when you know what it means and how it applies you will know why they ARE CANDIDATES?

Iamdhamoski:
All condemning the act of the parents unah well done......I just heard that the baby in question is dead

Are you serious

Iamdhamoski:
All condemning the act of the parents unah well done......I just heard that the baby in question is dead

Why won't the baby die? When the parents withheld treatment for 14 days how won't it die? They were wanted to give treatment meant for only healthy term normal birth weight baby to a very sick preterm low birth weight baby because of lies called religious beliefs.

Jozzy4:


If the point raised are so trivial , Do you now accept someone who accept transfusion all because the blood is not passed through the mouth is not different from a person who accepts alcohol through the vein yet claiming he didn't drink through the mouth ? Or someone who says he has abstain from fornication as the Bible said , all because he had sex from another route different from vagina , the Anus ?

Are you saying drinking blood is the same as passing it through the vein for medical purposes?

So why was the doctrine reversed? Did the JW Bible change?

Jozzy4:


You forgot before anyone enter paradise Earth , there is a Test at the end of 1000 years ? Your thinking cap is lost man, are you this daft so how exactly will aborting them make them a candidate of paradise Earth ?

Where did you get this test to be done at the end of 1000years before anyone can enter paradise earth? It's definitely not the bible.

It's only your magazines that will say such

ImaIma1:


It seems you are a pessimist. You only.see the dark side. Have you thought about the fact that the child could grow up to be a light to her family, a model child, successful, God loving?

They are taught in their religion to always see the bad, dark and evil side of things on earth. They only see good things in their imaginary paradise earth.

Jozzy4:


Retract, you don't even understand the Bible yourself.

The Bible says abstain from blood, abstain from fornication , can someone says fornication only means sex through the vagina, if it's through the Anus . It's not fornication ? What difference is there in drinking alcohol through the vein when the doctor says avoid alcohol ?

Please what fractions/components of fornication should be accepted?