bobowaja:

Lol. Finally agreed that you have no proof but you want us to believe you anyways.

.

Mitocyan:

Honestly I don't know how hard it is for people to understand. The day I understood this simple concept was the day I bade farewell to religion.

U have not understood it all,
the more I try to unravel the existence of God ,
the more confused I am,

bobowaja:

Lol... God of the gaps. Just plug in a god and go to bed. Never use "we dont know", always use "God did it".

Exactly bro ,God did it ,
cos it is beyond human comprehension, seeing a dead body buried in lime over 800 years ago still fresh and bleeding is stunning,
cos mummies dont look fresh or bleeds

bobowaja:

Lol... God of the gaps. Just plug in a god and go to bed. Never use "we dont know", always use "God did it".

NuissancePolice:


Before magnetism was discovered, magnets were called "magical stones" but we now know better.

I am not ruling the posibilty of transferring consciousness. Infact, scientists are currently working on it. We cannot conclusively say anstral projection is an evidence that one has soul when science has already mapped out the possiblity of transferring consciousness. What we think is magical or spiritual will eventually be explained in future.

This is you choosing to remain in the dark until science does something, perhaps when you've passed on. Big sorry

And no, it's not magnet whatever is that you call it. These are people going places, meetings and doing things without their physical bodies.

larride:


Are you saying that Jesus isn’t real and He never existed?

Don't mind them bro ,most of them saying they don't believe in God ,believe in diabolic and fetish elements, who is deceiving who

NuissancePolice:



Your entire argument is based on the premise that the bible in itself is indeed an authority but I do not want to debate that inorder not to lose track of the subject. Assuming the bible is infact God's word and a record of events that actually happened, the question is can you point to any christian in our era that has done any "work" greater than Jesus with evidence? E.g. Jesus christ plugged back the ear of one of his disciples that were chopped off, turned water into wine, walked on water etc. These are objective proofs that prove supernaturality.

2.

@bolded, lets say that the people you referred to here did not believe. Well, how about you? Have you experienced any of these supernatural events through you? Have you done any works atleast comparable with that of Jesus christ since you believe? The converse implication of the bold claim that says "these signs shall follow them that believe" is that if you do not experience them, you are an unbeliever. Are you a believer based on these?



What I am doing is beyond looking for miracles. I am only probing the validity of your bible based on what it claims. I am simply just putting it to test just the way I would if any scientist come up with a new discovery. Imagine a scientist coming up with an equation that can be used to build a HIV cure or vaccine, shouldn't the equation be tested? Be reasonable. Not everyone is looking to mock God. If your bible had sad, those that believe in him will have green blood for instance, that is what I will ask yourself to show me. If indeed God is real, then he must honour everything he said in his book else he is either a or his book was made up by people.

bro I will say you are forcing urself not to believe in Gods existence due to some FACtors but deep inside you ,you are aware

Eagleboney:
bro I will say you are forcing urself not to believe in Gods existence due to some FACtors but deep inside you ,you are aware

Ok

NuissancePolice:


Funny thing is they never attended to any of the 10 questions posited in the original post.

The 3rd question you guys Lost it ,check it out and. see for yourself

This is the only link I would drop for you people here. he is a amateur testifier. I don't have time to argue with my own experience sef cos my own experience personal enough. My hands are washed clean


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6lL11Tf0cY

bobowaja:

Lol. Finally agreed that you have no proof but you want us to believe you anyways.

I don’t understand you people really. You want prove of a miracle that happened 2000 years ago. Is that not shallow thinking?

Let me even pander to your side, what’s the scientific way to prove a “miracle” that happened 2000 years ago?

Gather your thoughts pls.

NuissancePolice:


It was not a myth during the pre-civilation era. Now it is. Same will happen to all religions. They are nothing but myths.

There have been a lot of civilization, which pre-civilization are you talking about.

The Greek Pantheon has always been a myth.

Don’t distort history pls.

NuissancePolice:


The bolded is a classic example of the Fallacy of Relevance. Appealing to authority to support your argument won't change the position of the fact.

Before I say anything, I discovered that you people are more at ease demeaning Christianity, Jesus and so on. But very cautious of mentioning the possible tricks in Mohammed's religion. Obviously because of fear of been beheaded

I also discovered that as you post more stuff, you became more defensive and dogmatic. These are not the traits of good intellectual exercise. The aim is not to "defend" your stance as you doing or feeling there is not "sense" in others'.

Like I said in the NNPC post, when you truly know, you will be humbled in your knowledge. I will not based my views on philosophy. because it's a highly flawed way of reasoning; most of whose claims cannot be empirically established. But based on cognitive reasoning.

Now, let me start from the idea of creation:

It is true that almost every religion and tribe have their own version of creation. Most of which are not intellectually sound. But I will like to take it up from science. If you have going through scientific history of creation, you would understand that there are some suggestions that are purely guess work. Some even claimed life came from fire. Others said from mud. Now let's examine the most popular scientific believe of creation.

The Theory of Evolution stated that life evolved from one single cell (amongst other things). There are questions behind that saying that man have not been able to answer. Why was it that only one cell evolved? Why has no other cells evolved since then? Scientists have recreated the "supposed" conditions that led to the evolution. Yet they were unable to make the so called evolution possible. While it might be possible that life evolved as claimed by some scientists, it is too early to affirm this. Because science has not been able to provide prove that life truly evolved.

The idea of good and evil is purely a philosophical question which I will not go into. Because, like I said earlier, philosophy is a highly flawed field. It is obvious in the way you are passionately defending your stance.

Don't you think that the question of the WHYs. That resonate throughout your posts might be flawed as well? Look at this scenario. A father refused to use his car to send his child to school. This child would have to walk long distance everyday. Sometimes the father also carries some of the child's school mates to school but not his own child. This child would have blisters and injuries, yet the man would not allow him to go to school in his car. Now, do you think the WHYs of the child and the WHYs of the father would be the same? The child would be asking why from his owing position of knowledge. The father would be asking his own WHYs from his own position of knowledge. The child's WHYs would obviously condemn the fathers action. Whether the father is right or wrong is a story for another day.

Coming to prove. If I asked you to prove that you were born, you would probably go and bring some bunch of documents for me. Which could be doctored. You cannot have CONCRETE prove that you were born. Everything that you would provide as a prove could be doctored. But if your brain is enhanced in such a way that you could go back in time to see how you were being giving birth to, then you wouldn't need to prove to anyone that you were born.

I have seen a man on whom cutlass were used. The cutlass was bouncing on his body like when you are using cutlass to cut tyre. I have seen a pastor stretched his hands towards a flower vase before. The vase vibrated continuously until it fell and broke. I have a friend who stumbled into a Christian crusade and was healed of asthma. A man was shot at a close range several times without a single penetration.

There are lots of grey areas. Like if these things are real, why can't they be used to do XYZ? Like I said, prove is in the realm of senses. And it's based on knowledge.

I could write zillions of article on this topic. But to preserve space and to save myself time. I will stop here.

Until there are empirical proves of Big Bang Theory, Evolution and all, it will be exercise in error to say emphatically, that the spiritual is not true. Because as religious folks have not been able to prove empirically that God exists, so has science has not been able to prove emperically that he doesn't exists.

worlexy:
You've said that you that have a soul or spirit. I have nothing more to say to you.

FYI : the YouTube videos I asked you to watch are not random videos posted by amateurs, I mean scientific documentaries on paranormal phenomenon.

I know you're aware that such exists but you've chosen to believe in yourself ignorance and in what your mind is fixated on. That's one thing I love about this life, you will always find something to defend your rationalization or irrationalization. Just like in the Nigerian movie Figurine

Denying God's existence doesn't diminish his powers or influence, God has nothing to lose, you have all to lose and you may end up be consumed by your ignorance

Even if paranormal phenomenons are real,how does that proves God exists?

nairaman66:


If the Big Bang is to be taken serious, I suppose no life on earth would have survived! Don’t you think? What about the Steady State theory? These are mere assertions by physicists, mathematicians as well as astronomers!!

Whenever the Big Bang theory comes to play, evolution lacks its foundation Vice versa! You need to understand that’s why it’s referred to as a “THEORY”.

Exactly bro ,these guys are just forcing themselves to accept atheism ,deep inside them their conscience is divided,even renowned atheists later retraced their steps when it dawned on them

Powersurge:


Before I say anything, I discovered that you people are more at ease demeaning Christianity, Jesus and so on. But very cautious of mentioning the possible tricks in Mohammed's religion. Obviously because of fear of been beheaded

I also discovered that as you post more stuff, you became more defensive and dogmatic. These are not the traits of good intellectual exercise. The aim is not to "defend" your stance as you doing or feeling there is not "sense" in others'.

Like I said in the NNPC post, when you truly know, you will be humbled in your knowledge. I will not based my views on philosophy. because it's a highly flawed way of reasoning; most of whose claims cannot be empirically established. But based on cognitive reasoning.

Now, let me start from the idea of creation:

It is true that almost every religion and tribe have their own version of creation. Most of which are not intellectually sound. But I will like to take it up from science. If you have going through scientific history of creation, you would understand that there are some suggestions that are purely guess work. Some even claimed life came from fire. Others said from mud. Now let's examine the most popular scientific believe of creation.

The Theory of Evolution stated that life evolved from one single cell (amongst other things). There are questions behind that saying that man have not been able to answer. Why was it that only one cell evolved? Why has no other cells evolved since then? Scientists have recreated the "supposed" conditions that led to the evolution. Yet they were unable to make the so called evolution possible. While it might be possible that life evolved as claimed by some scientists, it is too early to affirm this. Because science has not been able to provide prove that life truly evolved.

The idea of good and evil is purely a philosophical question which I will not go into. Because, like I said earlier, philosophy is a highly flawed field. It is obvious in the way you are passionately defending your stance.

Don't you think that the question of the WHYs. That resonate throughout your posts might be flawed as well? Look at this scenario. A father refused to use his car to send his child to school. This child would have to walk long distance everyday. Sometimes the father also carries some of the child's school mates to school but not his own child. This child would have blisters and injuries, yet the man would not allow him to go to school in his car. Now, do you think the WHYs of the child and the WHYs of the father would be the same? The child would be asking why from his owing position of knowledge. The father would be asking his own WHYs from his own position of knowledge. The child's WHYs would obviously condemn the fathers action. Whether the father is right or wrong is a story for another day.

Coming to prove. If I asked you to prove that you were born, you would probably go and bring some bunch of documents for me. Which could be doctored. You cannot have CONCRETE prove that you were born. Everything that you would provide as a prove could be doctored. But if your brain is enhanced in such a way that you could go back in time to see how you were being giving birth to, then you wouldn't need to prove to anyone that you were born.

I have seen a man on whom cutlass were used. The cutlass was bouncing on his body like when you are using cutlass to cut tyre. I have seen a pastor stretched his hands towards a flower vase before. The vase vibrated continuously until it fell and broke. I have a friend who stumbled into a Christian crusade and was healed of asthma. A man was shot at a close range several times without a single penetration.

There are lots of grey areas. Like if these things are real, why can't they be used to do XYZ? Like I said, prove is in the realm of senses. And it's based on knowledge.

I could write zillions of article on this topic. But to preserve space and to save myself time. I will stop here.

Until there are empirical proves of Big Bang Theory, Evolution and all, it will be exercise in error to say emphatically, that the spiritual is not true. Because as religious folks have not been able to prove empirically that God exists, so has science has not been able to prove emperically that he doesn't exists.

Yes maybe you should also start beheading people over criticising your own religion so that when your parents and kids criticizes your religion you can also behead them. Oh sorry Christians have already done this in the past like what they did to Galilee and I know you are proud of that. It was called the dark ages and where did it lead them? Please you can actually raise a movement and reenact that method so you can take us back to the dark ages.

NuissancePolice:
The comment below was one of the responses from the 2019/2020 NNPC thread and it appeared to have initiated a debate that could possibly derail the thread, so I am responding to it here. The entire premise of the poster's argument is based on that a divine being known by most to be God exists and so I think it would be most appropriate to first of all address the validity of the premise before engaging the comment properly.

1. Is there any objective proof that a being created the universe? What is it?

2. Every proponent of the "God exists theory" believes so based on what they heard or read. Never based on real proof. Why should I believe that the events about God in the bible or koran is true?

3. Why is there no objective proof of miracles in this era of civilisation as it were in the era of Jesus christ and Moses?

4. There is a very great conflict between all the gods of all the religion with each claiming their God is superior. Given that the conflict in all religion is caused by "uncertainity", wouldn't it be more efficient for God to reveal himself (or atleast with objective proof like how he established himself through elijah) physically as the true God?

5. Anyone that does not serve God will go to hell. How can we reconcile this with the concept of "free will"?

6. Allah, Jehovah, Zeus, Santa etc are gods of some of the most popular religions but one thing that they all have in common is the ability to hide themselves from their subjects, leaving them confused and at the mercy of trial by error. Why is this so? It looks like the gods or God enjoy the misery men face in trying to find which of them is the authentic god.

7. Let's assume that God exists. What makes him sure that there is no other God existing in another dimension and hiding as he (current God) is doing from humanity? If God does not believe thet there is no other God besides him, does that not ultimately make God an athiest?

8. Why is God very good at "healing" diseases and anomalies that are mostly internal and not physically obvious like barreness, stomach pain, blood diseases etc. but is very bad at external ones like cuts, wounds, amputations, burns etc.? Hospitals have documented evidences of medical procedures that solved people's health problems. Is there any documented evidence of any of Gods miracles for us to watch? There are atleast a million purported cases of miracles from God but zero verifiable and documented evidence. Why? Why don't pastors or christians heal the sick found in hospitals and on the streets like Jesus did?

9. The wages of sin is death. Death according to christianity means eternal torment in hell fire. My question is does 1 billion years of torture in fire for stealing, killing etc. resonate with the concept of God being just, merciful and loving?

10. Why is there no clear pathway in approaching the things of God? Why are there more unanswered prayers than "answered" ones? For instance, is Boko Haram stronger than the prayers made by all the christians in Nigeria and the world at large?



Caveat:
This is purely an intellectual exercise. There is no intent to mock anyone. It would be greatly appreciated if this thread is treated as such with minimum religious or ethnic sentiments.

Cc: Seun, OAM4J, mynd44

5


As much as I don't always do this... I would say this.

Firstly, you are just against the God Christians worship and not necessarily the existence of a supreme being. You quoted from the Bible, I didn't see you quote from other religious books.

Secondly, you come to argue about something you know little about. And even your little is flawed.

Thirdly, I'm finding it difficult to engage you through the line of reasoning as your reaction on the NNPC proves you aren't here for intellectual but to prove a point.

Ekemeze:


Were you there when the "big bang" happened? I guess is no.

Nice question ,
they don't believe In God cos they ve not seen him ,but blindly believe in bigbang theory and evolution ,as if they witnessed it

Eagleboney:
Nice question ,
they don't believe In God cos they ve not seen him ,but blindly believe in bigbang theory and evolution ,as if they witnessed it

I have said over and over again that you don't need to understand big bang and evolution before you can see that the claims of the religions of today are not true. So the fact that you don't understand how these things work and you don't want to make efforts to does not make your religion right. As a matter of fact there are atheists before the big bang and evolution theory were propounded. So this your point is not strong.

Thanks for this wonderful discourse NuissancePolice, I love it when you termed it an intellectual exercise. Indeed it is coupled with the way you and Mitocyan are handling the issue.

Sarah Salviander said this in one of her tweets and I quote;
I am not aware that debate ever work to convert people, at least not on the spot. It may, however, introduce ideas that will later bear fruits.

NuissancePolice:

1. Is there any objective proof that a being created the universe? What is it?

Yes. Creations are, ranging from man, animal, stars, sky, moon, sun etc.

Every design has an intelligent designer, e.g robots, cars, jets, houses, books etc. Nothing cannot produce something. So therefore, natural creations are proofs of the abilities of this "Supreme Being God."

NuissancePolice:
2. Every proponent of the "God exists theory" believes so based on what they heard or read. Never based on real proof. Why should I believe that the events about God in the bible or koran is true?

The Bible/Koran was not there from the beginning, at least billions of men existed before they were finally compiled, so it will be wrong for you to say the belief in a Supreme Being God is based on facts recorded in religious texts.

My late grandmother knew about "god" through her idols without ever reading any religious texts.

Even in the religious circle many haven't had the opportunity to read their religious book, nevertheless, they still believe in God. Maybe "intuition" is at play here, who knows?

I'm not against religious texts because they are needed for proper understanding based on your religion. On the other hand they must be scrutinized in order to verify their claims, and I love such intellectual exercise that serves as a medium to leap them from a ground state of blind faith to an excited state of reasonable faith.

NuissancePolice:
3. Why is there no objective proof of miracles in this era of civilisation as it were in the era of Jesus christ and Moses?

How many places in your life have you visited in this era of civilisation? How many churches/shrines/mosques have you observed over a long period of time to ascertain their miraculous claims?

Don't be a NuisancePolice, who just wake up, arrest, detain or convict everyone located in a crime scene without proper investigations.

For a start, you can use the Oba Palace and his shrines in Benin city, Edo state to help you understand more on the miraculous/supernatural. Camera men, video experts will be there live as you carry out your investigations. Wish you good luck but only if you are ready.

NuissancePolice:
4. There is a very great conflict between all the gods of all the religion with each claiming their God is superior. Given that the conflict in all religion is caused by "uncertainity", wouldn't it be more efficient for God to reveal himself (or atleast with objective proof like how he established himself through elijah) physically as the true God?

First of all, all religions from the East to the West acknowledges the existence of a Supreme Being God. There is no conflict there. The conflict is which way is right in accessing this Supreme Being God.

To cut the long story short, God revealed Himself physically to the world but skeptics like you rejected Him. Even if He dares to again many will still reject Him, even as they are doing at the moment.

Under close examination of all religions, you will find out that Christ Jesus is the True God/ the One sitting down at the right hand of the True God.

NuissancePolice:
5. Anyone that does not serve God will go to hell. How can we reconcile this with the concept of "free will"?

Anyone that does not drink water for a very long time will die of dehydration, then I begin to wonder of what use is my freewill if I decide not to take water?

Will you blame water that is available if you die of thirst?

NuissancePolice:
6. Allah, Jehovah, Zeus, Santa etc are gods of some of the most popular religions but one thing that they all have in common is the ability to hide themselves from their subjects, leaving them confused and at the mercy of trial by error. Why is this so? It looks like the gods or God enjoy the misery men face in trying to find which of them is the authentic god.

Me too, I love the drama. I love the whole scene. I love the characters in play.

The True God is already manifesting, all you need to do is to investigate who the True God is instead of behaving like a NuisancePolice.

NuissancePolice:
7. Let's assume that God exists. What makes him sure that there is no other God existing in another dimension and hiding as he (current God) is doing from humanity? If God does not believe thet there is no other God besides him, does that not ultimately make God an athiest?

I really love the way you are putting your brain cells to work.

God is the uncreated eternal creator. With this definition no room for another creator/God.

NuissancePolice:
8. Why is God very good at "healing" diseases and anomalies that are mostly internal and not physically obvious like barreness, stomach pain, blood diseases etc. but is very bad at external ones like cuts, wounds, amputations, burns etc.? Hospitals have documented evidences of medical procedures that solved people's health problems. Is there any documented evidence of any of Gods miracles for us to watch? There are atleast a million purported cases of miracles from God but zero verifiable and documented evidence. Why? Why don't pastors or christians heal the sick found in hospitals and on the streets like Jesus did?

Visit the Lords Chosen, the Bride Assembly, Eternity network international, Dunamis to verify this exaggerated claims of yours.

Investigate bro, don't be a lazy and a NuissancePolice. Do your policing work well and don't based your facts or claims on hearsay.

NuissancePolice:
9. The wages of sin is death. Death according to christianity means eternal torment in hell fire. My question is does 1 billion years of torture in fire for stealing, killing etc. resonate with the concept of God being just, merciful and loving?

1. It is to maintain law and order.

2. According to your 1 billion years claim, I think the torturing will be a rehabilitation process.

3. It is a good reward for those who are righteous and abide by the law. If you don't punish the wicked for their actions, then, there will be no good persons around. Only a NuissancePolice will allow both criminals and good citizens to mingle together.

NuissancePolice:
10. Why is there no clear pathway in approaching the things of God? Why are there more unanswered prayers than "answered" ones? For instance, is Boko Haram stronger than the prayers made by all the christians in Nigeria and the world at large?

There is a clear pathway. It is either you have refused to follow the narrow pathway because it is too small or you decided to create a pathway for yourself which cannot lead to God.

I got tens of answered prayers and looking up to my thousands. Prayer is a process, miss a single step and it becomes unanswered. Thank God that NuissancePolice still acknowledges that at least there are "answered prayers" even though they are few.

NuissancePolice:
Caveat:
This is purely an intellectual exercise. There is no intent to mock anyone. It would be greatly appreciated if this thread is treated as such with minimum religious or ethnic sentiments.

Cc: Seun, OAM4J, mynd44

Thank you. I am open for correction, suggestions and more intellectual exercise. I will also appreciate your recommendation of good books for my enlightenment.

Thanks.

God bless.

larride:


I don’t understand you people really. You want prove of a miracle that happened 2000 years ago. Is that not shallow thinking?

Let me even pander to your side, what’s the scientific way to prove a “miracle” that happened 2000 years ago?

Gather your thoughts pls.

This 2000 years story no dey change? Ive been hearing "2000 years ago" story since i was five and this is 2020 still date no change

Mitocyan:

I have said over and over again that you don't need to understand big bang and evolution before you can see that the claims of the religions of today are not true. So the fact that you don't understand how these things work and you don't want to make efforts to does not make your religion right. As a matter of fact there are atheists before the big bang and evolution theory were propounded. So this your point is not strong.

Then why are scientists naming constellations after mythological creatures and beings ,if they do not believe in supernatural beings ,why should they do so??

tartar9:

Even if paranormal phenomenons are real,how does that proves God exists?

Before you jump into the middle of something, commonsense should tell you to read from the beginning and understand from where we were coming from. Go and do that and come back to ask your question

Eagleboney:
Then why are scientists naming constellations after mythological creatures and beings ,if they do not believe in supernatural beings ,why should they do so??

So if a Christian bears Ogunkola it means he believes in Ogun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7PBAZZ-85A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gyP_xdMl8E

Eagleboney:
Don't mind them bro ,most of them saying they don't believe in God ,believe in diabolic and fetish elements, who is deceiving who

The difference between science and religion is clear

Religion:we dont know, therefore,God!

Science:We dont know,lets find out

sunshineV:


This 2000 years story no dey change? Ive been hearing "2000 years ago" story since i was five and this is 2020 still date no change

Maybe I should have said “over 2000 years ago”.

Feel happy now?

i pity you people. Only God can change your hearts honestly because even in d bible he said he has given people like u into reprobation that u would continue to believe a lie. I just hope that is not the case. LISTEN! I HAVE WITNESSED THE SUPERNATURAL. I AM A LIVING WITNESS!!! DO NOT BE FOOLISHLY STUBBORN! FEAR FOR YOUR ETERNITY!!!! THIS IS REAL NOT FAKE!!!!

Eagleboney:
Then why are scientists naming constellations after mythological creatures and beings ,if they do not believe in supernatural beings ,why should they do so??

Why does christains teach the theory of evolution in schools if they dont believe in it

inrainbows:
i pity you people. Only God can change your hearts honestly because even in d bible he said he has given people like u into reprobation that u would continue to believe a lie. I just hope that is not the case. LISTEN! I HAVE WITNESSED THE SUPERNATURAL. I AM A LIVING WITNESS!!! DO NOT BE FOOLISHLY STUBBORN!

The muslim also pities you too cos according to muslims you are going to Islamic hell. Goodluck with that