For the benefit of doubt...

I would answer your questions

Question 1 Is there any objective proof that a being created the universe? What is it?

The question should be can something exist out of nothing. 'Something' placed it on motion. You might call it nature or the Big Bang, we call 'it' GOD. I wouldn't want to spend so much talking on this. I want to believe you are quite intelligent.

Question 2. Every proponent of the "God exists theory" believes so based on what they heard or read. Never based on real proof. Why should I believe that the events about God in the bible or koran is true?

The question is what do you consider as real proof. The benefit of the Bible is received solely through faith. But you would be wrong to say there aren't real proof. Like I said earlier, I wouldn't know what you call real proof but the Holy Spirit in me is all the proof one can need. And this has been evident (real proof) in my experience. I function so much in the gifts of the Spirit. What other proof do I need


Question 3 Why is there no objective proof of miracles in this era of civilisation as it were in the era of Jesus christ and Moses?

This one is quite ambiguous. I don't know what you mean. But you are sure far from the church. If you were closer, you would have seen what Jesus is doing in and through his church.

Question 4. There is a very great conflict between all the gods of all the religion with each claiming their God is superior. Given that the conflict in all religion is caused by "uncertainity", wouldn't it be more efficient for God to reveal himself (or atleast with objective proof like how he established himself through elijah) physically as the true God?

What exactly is your problem? The first of superiority between religions or God revealing himself?? Are you implying that you believe in his existence but aren't sure who is superior?

Anyway, I wouldn't want to quote scriptures for you as you wouldn't want to take it as an authority. However, God has given us something better than fire falling from heaven (if that's what you mean by objective). He has given us (Christians) his Spirit. Talking about revealing himself, I would leave it for question 60th

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBn9P7grmRU

inrainbows:
i pity you people. Only God can change your hearts honestly because even in d bible he said he has given people like u into reprobation that u would continue to believe a lie. I just hope that is not the case. LISTEN! I HAVE WITNESSED THE SUPERNATURAL. I AM A LIVING WITNESS!!! DO NOT BE FOOLISHLY STUBBORN! FEAR FOR YOUR ETERNITY!!!! THIS IS REAL NOT FAKE!!!!

The only ' PROOF ' That God exists is in the bible

So it means Odin,Zeus,Ares,Krishna and every other God exists
Then explain to me why your religion is the true one

larride:


Maybe I should have said “over 2000 years ago”.

Feel happy now?

Lol for the first time since yesterday, I commend how you quickly trashed that out. I wonder why some people like to focus on pedantic issues and avoid the main subject.

Mitocyan:

The muslim also pities you too cos according to muslims you are going to Islamic hell. Goodluck with that

I don't care about that. The first step is acknowledging there is a supreme being which we all do. SEEE... I WAS DEEPER THAN YOU IN SUCH THOUGHTS. UNTIL GOD RESCUED ME. I AM A LIVING WITNESS TO THE GOD'S POWER. I AM TELLING YOU PEOPLE OUT OF ANGER FOR WHERE Y'ALL ARE HEADING TO IF YOU STAY LIKE THIS COS I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO ME. THIS IS REAL! MY FAMILY RECOUNTS THIS DAILY. EVERYONE WHO KNEW ME ON A DEEP LEVEL KNOWS. IT IS A CONTINUOUS TESTIMONY IN MY LIFE THAT SHOOK MY PARENTS!!!! THIS IS REAL!!! DEMONS ARE REAL!!! ANGELS ARE REAL!!! THE SUPERNATURAL IS REAL!!!! PLEASE!!!! YOU GUYS ARE HEADING TO DAMNATION!!!! YOUR HEART CAN'T BE THIS BLOCKED!!!!! OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!

Dolchi1:
For the benefit of doubt...

I would answer your questions

Question 1 Is there any objective proof that a being created the universe? What is it?

The question should be can something exist out of nothing. 'Something' placed it on motion. You might call it nature or the Big Bang, we call 'it' GOD. I wouldn't want to spend so much talking on this. I want to believe you are quite intelligent.

Question 2. Every proponent of the "God exists theory" believes so based on what they heard or read. Never based on real proof. Why should I believe that the events about God in the bible or koran is true?

The question is what do you consider as real proof. The benefit of the Bible is received solely through faith. But you would be wrong to say there aren't real proof. Like I said earlier, I wouldn't know what you call real proof but the Holy Spirit in me is all the proof one can need. And this has been evident (real proof) in my experience. I function so much in the gifts of the Spirit. What other proof do I need


Question 3 Why is there no objective proof of miracles in this era of civilisation as it were in the era of Jesus christ and Moses?

This one is quite ambiguous. I don't know what you mean. But you are sure far from the church. If you were closer, you would have seen what Jesus is doing in and through his church.

Question 4. There is a very great conflict between all the gods of all the religion with each claiming their God is superior. Given that the conflict in all religion is caused by "uncertainity", wouldn't it be more efficient for God to reveal himself (or atleast with objective proof like how he established himself through elijah) physically as the true God?

What exactly is your problem? The first of superiority between religions or God revealing himself?? Are you implying that you believe in his existence but aren't sure who is superior?

Anyway, I wouldn't want to quote scriptures for you as you wouldn't want to take it as an authority. However, God has given us something better than fire falling from heaven (if that's what you mean by objective). He has given us (Christians) his Spirit. Talking about revealing himself, I would leave it for question 60th

If nothing can exists out of nothing, please explain to me how God came to be

And saying the holy spirit is in you is just a product if indoctrination..you don't feel,hear or see him but you just have faith that he is there

Mitocyan:

So if a Christian bears Ogunkola it means he believes in Ogun?

scientists act by what they believe, they gave the constellations this name ,cos they believe their existence,you may be anxious to see God before you believe he exists,
then how do dreams come about??
many times I dreamed it happens exactly xame way It happened in my dream, I will be like this event have occurred somewhere before ,then I may remember It occurred in my dream,
what your answer to that??
you may call It hallucination

No offence but thus far the only proponents of religion I've noticed that still bring reasonable points to the table here is larride even if he still has a long way to go in breaking free from his indoctrination.

As for the rest of you religious proponents more work will need to be done on you before you can see things clearly.

But I'm glad we have made you guys stretch your thinking capacity beyond what you are exposed to on sundays at least.

inrainbows:
i pity you people. Only God can change your hearts honestly because [b]even in d bible [/b]he said he has given people like u into reprobation that u would continue to believe a lie. I just hope that is not the case. LISTEN! I HAVE WITNESSED THE SUPERNATURAL. I AM A LIVING WITNESS!!! DO NOT BE FOOLISHLY STUBBORN! FEAR FOR YOUR ETERNITY!!!! THIS IS REAL NOT FAKE!!!!

Really

Anyway, Repent and serve the true lord

Mitocyan:
No offence but thus far the only proponents of religion I've noticed that still bring reasonable points to the table here is larride even if he still has a long way to go in breaking free from his indoctrination.

As for the rest of you religious proponents more work will need to be done on you before you can see things clearly.

But I'm glad we have made you guys stretch your thinking capacity beyond what you are exposed to on sundays at least.

thinking capacity?? lol, i laugh at you. I know people much more smarter than you in the workings of universe and science and mathematics and philosphy behind the universe and many of them are believers. Lol, thinking...am sure you don't have a doctorate or professorship or award in critical thinking areas and these people do. Lol

odinson1:


Why does christains teach the theory of evolution in schools if they dont believe in it

will you protest from teaching what is in the syllabus, you are employed to teach students what is in the syllabus, so you have teach them and go ur way, a primary school teacher may tell the students that man evolved in basic science and also teach xame students that God created man from sand in CRK ,that does not make the teacher to believe in evolution ,she is just doing her job

Eagleboney:
scientists act by what they believe, they gave the constellations this name ,cos they believe their existence,you may be anxious to see God before you believe he exists,
then how do dreams come about??
many times I dreamed it happens exactly xame way It happened in my dream, I will be like this event have occurred somewhere before ,then I may remember It occurred in my dream,
what your answer to that??
you may call It hallucination

I wonder how dreams prove God's existence

Anyway,dreams are a result of our brains playing tricks on us.what we dream depends on what we've done previously,or what we might intend to do later
It's all just psychological

NuissancePolice:
The comment below was one of the responses from the 2019/2020 NNPC thread and it appeared to have initiated a debate that could possibly derail the thread, so I am responding to it here. The entire premise of the poster's argument is based on that a divine being known by most to be God exists and so I think it would be most appropriate to first of all address the validity of the premise before engaging the comment properly.

1. Is there any objective proof that a being created the universe? What is it?

2. Every proponent of the "God exists theory" believes so based on what they heard or read. Never based on real proof. Why should I believe that the events about God in the bible or koran is true?

3. Why is there no objective proof of miracles in this era of civilisation as it were in the era of Jesus christ and Moses?

4. There is a very great conflict between all the gods of all the religion with each claiming their God is superior. Given that the conflict in all religion is caused by "uncertainity", wouldn't it be more efficient for God to reveal himself (or atleast with objective proof like how he established himself through elijah) physically as the true God?

5. Anyone that does not serve God will go to hell. How can we reconcile this with the concept of "free will''

6. Allah, Jehovah, Zeus, Santa etc are gods of some of the most popular religions but one thing that they all have in common is the ability to hide themselves from their subjects, leaving them confused and at the mercy of trial by error. Why is this so? It looks like the gods or God enjoy the misery men face in trying to find which of them is the authentic god.

7. Let's assume that God exists. What makes him sure that there is no other God existing in another dimension and hiding as he (current God) is doing from humanity? If God does not believe thet there is no other God besides him, does that not ultimately make God an athiest?

8. Why is God very good at "healing" diseases and anomalies that are mostly internal and not physically obvious like barreness, stomach pain, blood diseases etc. but is very bad at external ones like cuts, wounds, amputations, burns etc.? Hospitals have documented evidences of medical procedures that solved people's health problems. Is there any documented evidence of any of Gods miracles for us to watch? There are atleast a million purported cases of miracles from God but zero verifiable and documented evidence. Why? Why don't pastors or christians heal the sick found in hospitals and on the streets like Jesus did?

9. The wages of sin is death. Death according to christianity means eternal torment in hell fire. My question is does 1 billion years of torture in fire for stealing, killing etc. resonate with the concept of God being just, merciful and loving?

10. Why is there no clear pathway in approaching the things of God? Why are there more unanswered prayers than "answered" ones? For instance, is Boko Haram stronger than the prayers made by all the christians in Nigeria and the world at large?



Caveat:
This is purely an intellectual exercise. There is no intent to mock anyone. It would be greatly appreciated if this thread is treated as such with minimum religious or ethnic sentiments.

Cc: Seun, OAM4J, mynd44

Question 5. Anyone that does not serve God will go to hell. How can we reconcile this with the concept of "free will''


Firstly, what takes a man to hell is in 'not believing' in the sacrifice of Jesus (his death and resurrection). There is a universal problem with the world and that is sin. This was a choice man made from the first man Adam. And the consequence of his choice from sin and death (hell). Don't forget that choice is a product of free will which man has. God so loves us and wouldn't want us to perish in hell and as such came as a man (Jesus) to pay for the sin of the world. Again free will comes into play. You can choose to accept his sacrifice for your sin or bear the sacrifice (consequence) by yourself. To accept is to believe he did it for you.

Also note that God isn't the one punishing for sin but the one paying for sin. Christ died for our sins. Believe (accept) it and be saved. Reject (unbelieve) and die (hell) for your own sin. Whichever way, God isn't the one sending anybody to hell, you go to hell based on your choices.

Eagleboney:
will you protest from teaching what is in the syllabus, you are employed to teach students what is in the syllabus, so you have teach them and go ur way, a primary school teacher may tell the students that man evolved in basic science and also teach xame students that God created man from sand in CRK ,that does not make the teacher to believe in evolution ,she is just doing her job

Good response
Now tell me why you believe in the creation story and not in the evolution theory

Remember that there is no evidence for either

Dolchi1:



Question 5. Anyone that does not serve God will go to hell. How can we reconcile this with the concept of "free will''


Firstly, what takes a man to hell is in 'not believing' in the sacrifice of Jesus (his death and resurrection). There is a universal problem with the world and that is sin. This was a choice man made from the first man Adam. And the consequence of his choice from sin and death (hell). Don't forget that choice is a product of free will which man has. God so loves us and wouldn't want us to perish in hell and as such came as a man (Jesus) to pay for the sin of the world. Again free will comes into play. You can choose to accept his sacrifice for your sin or bear the sacrifice (consequence) by yourself. To accept is to believe he did it for you.

Also note that God isn't the one punishing for sin but the one paying for sin. Christ died for our sins. Believe (accept) it and be saved. Reject (unbelieve) and die (hell) for your own sin. Whichever way, God isn't the one sending anybody to hell, you go to hell based on your choices.

So a loving and caring father would Torture his children in a lake of fire for billions upon billions of centuries just because he didn't serve him

Would you be supporting the concept of hell if you were in hell right now
Answer this question pls

worlexy:
You've said that you that have a soul or spirit. I have nothing more to say to you.

FYI : the YouTube videos I asked you to watch are not random videos posted by amateurs, I mean scientific documentaries on paranormal phenomenon.

I know you're aware that such exists but you've chosen to believe in yourself ignorance and in what your mind is fixated on. That's one thing I love about this life, you will always find something to defend your rationalization or irrationalization. Just like in the Nigerian movie Figurine

Denying God's existence doesn't diminish his powers or influence, God has nothing to lose, you have all to lose and you may end up be consumed by your ignorance

Let's assume paranormal activities, spirit etc exist, how do they proof God's existence?

Eagleboney:
Exactly bro ,these guys are just forcing themselves to accept atheism ,deep inside them their conscience is divided,even renowned atheists later retraced their steps when it dawned on them

Just confused lots using atheism as a bargaining chip for senseless talks!

nairaman66:


Just confused lots using atheism as a bargaining chip for senseless talks!

Typical words of theists who dont know the answers,but will never admit that they dont

They will just tell you to have faith or be damned in hellfire forever

So basically, every Non-Christain on earth will go to hellfire

odinson1:




If nothing can exists out of nothing, please explain to me how God came to be

And saying the holy spirit is in you is just a product if indoctrination..you don't feel,hear or see him but you just have faith that he is there

I need to be sure we are on same page together. Do you agree that something can't exist out of nothing or not?

If you agree that something can't exist out of nothing then your theories are flawed. Your Big Bang Theory and their likes would come to nothing.

And if you don't agree, I would need you to do some exegesis on how to create something out of nothing.


That said, Asking me how God came to be sounds foolish. Have you forgotten that we are talking of a God (creator)?

Please don't lose focus. Existence is defined by location and time. The moment you try to put something into space and time, that thing is now a creation and not a creator. God is the creator. He created time and space, how can you then try defining him from what wasn't existing before God.

So does God exist? Yes. In time? No. Hence the question when and how did God start existing is flawed


Modified

About the Holy Spirit, I feel him and hear him. But then that's not the basis of our interactions and his leading. When you exhibit the fruits and the gifts of the spirit, it's enough proof that the Holy Spirit resides in you.

Dolchi1:


I need to be sure we are on same page together. Do you agree that something can't exist out of nothing or not?

If you agree that something can't exist out of nothing then your theories are flawed. Your Big Bang Theory and their likes would come to nothing.

And if you don't agree, I would need you to do some exegesis on how to create nothing out of something.


That said, Asking me how God came to be sounds foolish. Have you forgotten that we are talking of a God (creator)?

Please don't lose focus. Existence is defined by location and time. The moment you try to put something into space and time, that thing is now a creation and not a creator. God is the creator. He created time and space, how can you then try defining him from what wasn't existing before God.

So does God exist? Yes. In time? No. Hence the question when and how did God start existing is flawed

No one says the big bang theory is real, it's just a theory
Same with the creation story, it was written in a book and you just believe it without asking logical questions about it

The real TRUTH is that no one actually is sure of anything..... because no proof

odinson1:


So a loving and caring father would Torture his children in a lake of fire for billions upon billions of centuries just because he didn't serve him

Would you be supporting the concept of hell if you were in hell right now
Answer this question pls

Please read my post and this time slowly...

A loving Father gave himself to save the word. Jesus (the one that proceeds from the father) became a man and would forever be a man just to save man. He would deny himself equality with God just to save man. What else do you want him to do.

And please you must define the word 'serve'. I never used it at least not yet.

He has done all that he can do for you. Forcing his salvation on you would be going against 'free will'.

The only thing we need to do is believe! Accept his payment for our sin.
No love is greater than that a man lay down his life for his friends (people he love).

The last analogy... When I was a Corper, I used to allow students receive cane on behalf of others. There are some students who had much pride. When other students offer to help, they wouldn't accept. Once a student (John) received the first stroke on behalf of another (Andrew). Andrew insisted that John didn't receive the cane for him. So I had to flog Andrew his complete strokes as though nobody helped him out even though in reality somebody did. Why was that? Because Andrew had a choice (free will). I would later find out that Andrew and John had a little quarrel earlier that day and as such didn't want the help of John.

odinson1:


Typical words of theists who dont know the answers,but will never admit that they dont

They will just tell you to have faith or be damned in hellfire forever

So basically, every Non-Christain on earth will go to hellfire

Do you know how hysterical you sound with these words?

Dolchi1:


Please read my post and this time slowly...

A loving Father gave himself to save the word. Jesus (the one that proceeds from the father) became a man and would forever be a man just to save man. He would deny himself equality with God just to save man. What else do you want him to do.

And please you must define the word 'serve'. I never used it at least not yet.

He has done all that he can do for you. Forcing his salvation on you would be going against 'free will'.

The only thing we need to do is believe! Accept his payment for our sin.
No love is greater than that a man lay down his life for his friends (people he love).

The last analogy... When I was a Corper, I used to allow students receive cane on behalf of others. There are some students who had much pride. When other students offer to help, they wouldn't accept. Once a student (John) received the first stroke on behalf of another (Andrew). Andrew insisted that John didn't receive the cane for him. So I had to flog Andrew his complete strokes as though nobody helped him out even though in reality somebody did. Why was that? Because Andrew had a choice (free will). I would later find out that Andrew and John had a little quarrel earlier that day and as such didn't want the help of John.

Giving Andrew a few strokes of the cane is nothing compared to eternal torture in a burning lake of fire

Why cant you understand that the concept of hell is cruel and wicked

nairaman66:


Do you know how hysterical you sound with these words?

You just proved my point

odinson1:


No one says the big bang theory is real, it's just a theory
Same with the creation story, it was written in a book and you just believe it without asking logical questions about it

The real TRUTH is that no one actually is sure of anything..... because no proof

Firstly, I didn't postulate any story on creation. At least not yet.

Also check my post about, I have modified. However, the real TRUTH is that every creation has a beginning and a creator.

If you tell me your problem is which religion is true? Then you might be in the side of logic. But claiming you aren't sure if there is a creator of the universe (or multiverse as some claim) and the galaxies and everything in it... Claiming such would be illogical and unintelligent.


There's obviously a SOURCE. Science spend time trying to prove this outside God.

odinson1:


Giving Andrew a few strokes of the cane is nothing compared to eternal torture in a burning lake of fire

Why cant you understand that the concept of hell is cruel and wicked

It's not a concept. It's choice. You have the option not to be there. If you insist on being there just to prove God isn't loving, then it would still have been your choice.
Choose your choice.

Lastly... The concept of helped a place where people would keep burning for billions and billions and billions of years isn't in itself correct. But explaining it here would be beyond the scope of this argument. It's better taught to Christians.

Dolchi1:


It's not a concept. It's choice. You have the option not to be there. If you insist on being there just to prove God isn't loving, then it would still have been your choice.
Choose your choice.

Lastly... The concept of helped a place where people would keep burning for billions and billions and billions of years isn't in itself correct. But explaining it here would be beyond the scope of this argument. It's better taught to Christians.

modified

One more thing, is your problem now the concept of hell or the existence of God. I always love that we stay with an argument and derail less.

Dolchi1:


Firstly, I didn't postulate any story on creation. At least not yet.

Also check my post about, I have modified. However, the real TRUTH is that every creation has a beginning and a creator.

If you tell me your problem is which religion is true? Then you might be in the side of logic. But claiming you aren't sure if there is a creator of the universe (or multiverse as some claim) and the galaxies and everything in it... Claiming such would be illogical and unintelligent.


There's obviously a SOURCE. Science spend time trying to prove this outside God.

I'm not taking sides on the creation story or Big bang theory Because they are all speculations,theories and stories

But one of my arguments are which religion is actually true

Dolchi1:


modified

One more thing, is your problem now the concept of hell or the existence of God. I always love that we stay with an argument and derail less.

The concept of hell
But,i do not claim God exists, neither do i claim he does not

Eagleboney:
astronauts and astrologers never believed God exists but they named some constellations after mythical Gods and Creatures ,is that not lame

What has this got to do with what I said? BTW it's not astronauts and astrologers that named the constellations but astronomers.

larride:


When i say most of these people arguing here don’t understand what they are arguing about, they think it’s a lie.

There’s nothing that stop you from being a scientist and also believe in God. Your belief is a personal thing and only you can talk about your own personal experience/belief.

Indeed faith is personal that's one of the reasons it doesn't have objective proof.

odinson1:


The concept of hell
But,i do not claim God exists, neither do i claim he does not

So what's your argument? Why are we having this conversation? I need to know what the issue is so I know how to respond accordingly