urahara:


Sister these are the direct commandments of the Lord.

Yahweh commanded all these. Go and read the book of Leviticus.

Why should I leave the Bible out of it ?

Is that not the moral compass of Nigerian Christians again ?

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 New International Version (NIV)
Marriage Violations
13 If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” 15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. 16 Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17 Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, 18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels[a] of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.

20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

The Bible is not the moral compass of the Christian that thinks it is ok for men not to be virgins before marriage or unfaithful after marriage while the opposite hold for women. I call them 'Nigerian' Christians.

@bold:

I asked crackkhaus a question, let me ask you also:

Is there anywhere in the Bible God expressly said only women should marry as virgins? Is there anywhere that even virginity (male & female) before marriage is made a direct commandment?

What is the point of these meaningless talks?

Does it add to your bank account?

This is why the males here dont even know the meaning of being male again, they spend all their time discussing and arguing with women over topics that are female domain.

Even the father is wrong.

The child's virginity is not 'important' to Jesus, her giving her life to Him is.

bukatyne:


The Bible is not the moral compass of the Christian that thinks it is ok for men not to be virgins before marriage or unfaithful after marriage while the opposite hold for women. I call them 'Nigerian' Christians.

@bold:

I asked crackkhaus a question, let me ask you also:

Is there anywhere in the Bible God expressly said only women should marry as virgins? Is there anywhere that even virginity (male & female) before marriage is made a direct commandment?

Ephesians 5:3 -

"But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints"

1 Thessalonians 4:3–4 -

"God's will is for you to be holy, so stay away from all sexual sin. Then each of you will control his own body and live in holiness and honor."

Matthew 15:19 -

"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies …"

Matthew 19:9 -

"And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

Jude 1:4 -

"I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."


1 Corinthians 6:9–10 -

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

1 Corinthians 6:13 -

"Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body."

1 Corinthians 6:18–19 -

"Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. Don't you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself."

1 Corinthians 7:2 -

"But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband

This message will so pain NL women.

On the other hand, the girl will just be forming angel and saying;
"yes dad"
while thinking;
"that thing wey I lose in primary school for 2 Tom Tom and one Fan Yogo".

bukatyne:


The Bible is not the moral compass of the Christian that thinks it is ok for men not to be virgins before marriage or unfaithful after marriage while the opposite hold for women. I call them 'Nigerian' Christians.

@bold:

I asked crackkhaus a question, let me ask you also:

Is there anywhere in the Bible God expressly said only women should marry as virgins? Is there anywhere that even virginity (male & female) before marriage is made a direct commandment?

Hebrews 13:4 KJV
[4] Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Hangulsaram:

Hebrews 13:4 KJV
[4] Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Does the Bible verse above say anything about marrying as a virgin especially to women?

My challenge is still open.

Please note I have not implied the Bible encourages fornication (sex before marriage). However, nowhere is there a direct injunction to women for them to marry as virgins.

When you give you life to Christ, the command is 'Go and sin no more'. If you cannot handle your libido, marry and do not commit adultery.

[author=bukatyne post=86509897]
Does the Bible verse above say anything about marrying as a virgin especially to women?

My challenge is still open.

Please note I have not implied the Bible encourages fornication (sex before marriage). However, nowhere is there a direct injunction to women for them to marry as virgins.

When you give you life to Christ, the command is 'Go and sin no more'. If you cannot handle your libido, marry and do not commit adultery.[/quote]

Is there anywhere in the Bible God expressly said only women should marry as virgins? Is there anywhere that even virginity (male & female) before marriage is made a direct commandment?
The bolded was your question, and you also made mention of the male & female.
Talk of virginity, “A Bed undefiled” there simple me that non should have sex before marriage.
(Quote) (Report) (Like) (S

urahara:


Ephesians 5:3 -

"But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints"

1 Thessalonians 4:3–4 -

"God's will is for you to be holy, so stay away from all sexual sin. Then each of you will control his own body and live in holiness and honor."

Matthew 15:19 -

"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies …"

Matthew 19:9 -

"And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

Jude 1:4 -

"I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."


1 Corinthians 6:9–10 -

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

1 Corinthians 6:13 -

"Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body."

1 Corinthians 6:18–19 -

"Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. Don't you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself."

1 Corinthians 7:2 -

"But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband

You remember we are coming from your position that God places a premium on female virginity in marriage more than the male.

Now you did not find any verse, I see you decided to answer the question Is there anywhere that even virginity (male & female) before marriage is made a direct commandment?

All the verses you quoted tells us to flee from fornication and adultery which we must at the point we give our lives to Christ. This means that whatever state you give your life to Christ, Go and sin no more.

Some people* are lucky that there were properly brought up in the Word of God and did not have sex before marriage; some others due to experiences of people around them decided to run away from sex before marriage.

All the above are good and commendable; so is not stealing, not lying, not having idols, not slandering, not causing disharmony etc.

Another reason people should run away from sex before marriage is because sex is spiritual and God's plan is for both parties to be chaste (virgins) till marriage so they are only bound/one with one another.

Would some people listen? No; Some other would find themselves in situations they can't help themselves. Others would probably not understand what sex is and substitute it for another void in their lives.

The Bible however says 'If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. Behold, all things have passed away and all things have become new.' At that point, you are expected to run away from sin and be holy. And fornication is not the only sin.

James 2: 10 - 11:
10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws. 11 For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.”[e] So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.

It is a cultural belief that the Bible esteems/ advocates female virginity above that of males.

*: You notice my use of people, it is deliberate referring to males and females.

You have not answered either of my question, I am still expecting the answer

@bold: Just kidding.

Hangulsaram:


Is there anywhere in the Bible God expressly said only women should marry as virgins? Is there anywhere that even virginity (male & female) before marriage is made a direct commandment?

The bolded was your question, and you also made mention of the male & female.

Talk of virginity, “A Bed undefiled” there simple me that non should have sex before marriage.

I don't know the magic you did, I had to re-quote you somehow.

Hebrews 13: 4 NLT
4 Give honor to marriage, and remain faithful to one another in marriage. God will surely judge people who are immoral and those who commit adultery.

Hebrews 13: 4 NKJV
4 Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

The bed undefiled referred to here is the bed after marriage.

ouzo1:
Wait o,why people dey think say na val's day virginity dey cast?

ask november

bukatyne:


I don't know the magic you did, I had to re-quote you somehow.

Hebrews 13: 4 NLT
4 Give honor to marriage, and remain faithful to one another in marriage. God will surely judge people who are immoral and those who commit adultery.

Hebrews 13: 4 NKJV
4 Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

The bed undefiled referred to here is the bed after marriage.

Lol! Say Na magic I did? The bolded justifies my arguement ma.

How is he still sure if she is still a virgin.

Ahh!!! MayB i go kukuma print this thing out.. so that my sister can be reading it daily

bukatyne:


The old testament said a lot of things: Most were workarounds to the situation & culture in existence, some were commandments e.g. the Ten commandments given to Moses on the mountain.

Is there anywhere in the Bible God expressly said only women should marry as virgins? Is there anywhere that even virginity (male & female) before marriage is made a direct commandment?

I would like to see the Bible chapter.

You're deliberately missing the point to defend your understanding. This is not about what I think or how I feel about the issue of virginity, it's about what the Bible you hold in high esteem says.

No one here (well at least not I) is implying that ONLY women should marry as virgins. Sexual immorality is a sin for both genders, the verses dealing with this has already been given to you.

However, a specific law & punishment was directed towards women found not to be virgins. None was directed specifically towards men (as in, what is the punishment for a man found to not be a virgin before marriage?) - and this was the point I was getting at.

What you should be arguing against is the validity of that punishment in the old testament, because everyone already knows sexual immorality is sin in both genders. But why is a specific punishment given to soemn and not to men, that's the point.

crackkhaus:

You're deliberately missing the point to defend your understanding. This is not about what I think or how I feel about the issue of virginity, it's about what the Bible you hold in high esteem says.

No one here (well at least not I) is implying that ONLY women should marry as virgins. Sexual immorality is a sin for both genders, the verses dealing with this has already been given to you.

However, a specific law & punishment was directed towards women found not to be virgins. None was directed specifically towards men (as in, what is the punishment for a man found to not be a virgin before marriage?) - and this was the point I was getting at.

What you should be arguing against is the validity of that punishment in the old testament, because everyone already knows sexual immorality is sin in both genders. But why is a specific punishment given to soemn and not to men, that's the point.

My question was initially directed to the other poster because that was what he implied so he understands my question. He did not find any answer so he started quoting other verses.

Like I told the other guy, the Bible contains many things: direct commandment from God, walk-around of culture, proviso for issues, personal admonitions etc. The punishment is that verse is not a God-originated punishment; that is my point.

The Isrealites had the culture of accusing their wives when they were tired of them that they were not virgins which was punishable by death in their culture.

So the men were told: 'if you accuse your wife and her parents can prove her virginity, you pay them some stuff and never divorce the woman. If her parents cannot prove her virginity, stone her to death.'

Remember that the man had to start the accusation so the issue is not even marrying as a virgin or not, the issue is the man loving the woman or not. The stoning verse is in Deut 22. In Chapter 24, he can give her a divorce if he doesn't like something about her meaning instead of saying he did not meet her a virgin which is punishable by death, he can say 'he doesn't want her again and give her a divorce.'

The above is also the reason why when virgins are raped, the men are commanded to marry her and never divorce her. Because if he did, the next husband would obviously not meet her a virgin and can evoke Deut 22 or 24 on her.

A lot of these things were corrected in the New Testament where Christ really made the thoughts & plans of God known.

See Deut 24: 1-4 where no fault divorce is allowed:
24 “Suppose a man marries a woman but she does not please him. Having discovered something wrong with her, he writes a document of divorce, hands it to her, and sends her away from his house. 2 When she leaves his house, she is free to marry another man. 3 But if the second husband also turns against her, writes a document of divorce, hands it to her, and sends her away, or if he dies, 4 the first husband may not marry her again, for she has been defiled. That would be detestable to the Lord. You must not bring guilt upon the land the Lord your God is giving you as a special possession.

Compare with Mark 10: 2-12
2 Some Pharisees came and tried to trap him with this question: “Should a man be allowed to divorce his wife?” 3 Jesus answered them with a question: “What did Moses say in the law about divorce?” 4 “Well, he permitted it,” they replied. “He said a man can give his wife a written notice of divorce and send her away.”[a] 5 But Jesus responded, “He wrote this commandment only as a concession to your hard hearts. 6 But ‘God made them male and female’[b] from the beginning of creation. 7 ‘This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife,[c] 8 and the two are united into one.’[d] Since they are no longer two but one, 9 let no one split apart what God has joined together.” 10 Later, when he was alone with his disciples in the house, they brought up the subject again. 11 He told them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries someone else, she commits adultery.”

Another famous example in the Bible would be slavery.

bukatyne:


My question was initially directed to the other poster because that was what he implied so he understands my question. He did not find any answer so he started quoting other verses.

Like I told the other guy, the Bible contains many things: direct commandment from God, walk-around of culture, proviso for issues, personal admonitions etc. The punishment is that verse is not a God-originated punishment; that is my point.

The Isrealites had the culture of accusing their wives when they were tired of them that they were not virgins which was punishable by death in their culture.

So the men were told: 'if you accuse your wife and her parents can prove her virginity, you pay them some stuff and never divorce the woman. If her parents cannot prove her virginity, stone her to death.'

Remember that the man had to start the accusation so the issue is not even marrying as a virgin or not, the issue is the man loving the woman or not. The stoning verse is in Deut 22. In Chapter 24, he can give her a divorce if he doesn't like something about her meaning instead of saying he did not meet her a virgin which is punishable by death, he can say 'he doesn't want her again and give her a divorce.'

The above is also the reason why when virgins are raped, the men are commanded to marry her and never divorce her. Because if he did, the next husband would obviously not meet her a virgin and can evoke Deut 22 or 24 on her.

A lot of these things were corrected in the New Testament where Christ really made the thoughts & plans of God known.

See Deut 24: 1-4 where no fault divorce is allowed:
24 “Suppose a man marries a woman but she does not please him. Having discovered something wrong with her, he writes a document of divorce, hands it to her, and sends her away from his house. 2 When she leaves his house, she is free to marry another man. 3 But if the second husband also turns against her, writes a document of divorce, hands it to her, and sends her away, or if he dies, 4 the first husband may not marry her again, for she has been defiled. That would be detestable to the Lord. You must not bring guilt upon the land the Lord your God is giving you as a special possession.

Compare with Mark 10: 2-12
2 Some Pharisees came and tried to trap him with this question: “Should a man be allowed to divorce his wife?” 3 Jesus answered them with a question: “What did Moses say in the law about divorce?” 4 “Well, he permitted it,” they replied. “He said a man can give his wife a written notice of divorce and send her away.”[a] 5 But Jesus responded, “He wrote this commandment only as a concession to your hard hearts. 6 But ‘God made them male and female’[b] from the beginning of creation. 7 ‘This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife,[c] 8 and the two are united into one.’[d] Since they are no longer two but one, 9 let no one split apart what God has joined together.” 10 Later, when he was alone with his disciples in the house, they brought up the subject again. 11 He told them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries someone else, she commits adultery.”

Another famous example in the Bible would be slavery.

Lol, you lost me when you said the punishment meted out to women not found with the token of virginity is not from God.

You do understand that the entire book of Deuteronomy was God's specific instructions given to the Israelites through Moses just before they crossed over into Canaan, right?

Like I said earlier, the only argument you should be making is the validity of the law in present time.

crackkhaus:

Lol, you lost me when you said the punishment meted out to women not found with the token of virginity is not from God.

You do understand that the entire book of Deuteronomy was God's specific instructions given to the Israelites through Moses just before they crossed over into Canaan, right?

Like I said earlier, the only argument you should be making is the validity of the law in present time.

So the God that commanded no-fault Divorce in Chapter 24 turned round to say in Mark 10 that He allowed it because of the hardness of their hearts?

Have you heard of the laws of Moses?

@Bold:

Is anyone arguing that non-virgin brides should be stoned today?

bukatyne:


So the God that commanded no-fault Divorce in Chapter 24 turned round to say in Mark 10 that He allowed it because of the hardness of their hearts?

Have you heard of the laws of Moses?

@Bold:

Is anyone arguing that non-virgin brides should be stoned today?

Lol, this woman sef.
You're deflecting this way off from the epicenter.

Laws of Moses are laws from God, Moses did not make any laws on his own accord.

Just provide a verse in the Bible that can be likened to Deut 22:21 talking about specific punishment for non-virgin men - whether it's in the old testament, new testament, or middle testament.

This is all you have to do.

crackkhaus:

Lol, this woman sef.
You're deflecting this way off from the epicenter.

Laws of Moses are laws from God, Moses did not make any laws on his own accord.

Just provide a verse in the Bible that can be likened to Deut 22:21 talking about specific punishment for non-virgin men - whether it's in the old testament, new testament, or middle testament.

This is all you have to do.

If you don't understand the difference between the laws of Moses, and Laws originating from God like the ten commandments, golden rule etc. you cannot grasp my point.

There is no punishment for men who did not marry as virgins because there is no physical proof. What could be proven (Adultery) for men was punishable by death in Deut 22:22.

The above is still not God's direct commandment. Infact, after a while, those laws were not followed again.

As early as Proverbs, the writer was warning men to shun adultery or sleeping with married women as apart from the spiritual implications, the husband could deal with the man in annoyance and jealousy.

bukatyne:

If you don't understand the difference between the laws of Moses, and Laws originating from God like the ten commandments, golden rule etc. you cannot grasp my point.

There is no punishment for men who did not marry as virgins because there is no physical proof. What could be proven (Adultery) for men was punishable by death in Deut 22:22.

The above is still not God's direct commandment. Infact, after a while, those laws were not followed again.

As early as Proverbs, the writer was warning men to shun adultery or sleeping with married women as apart from the spiritual implications, the husband could deal with the man in annoyance and jealousy.

The difference between laws of Moses and those originating from God
Are you even reading what you're typing?

Is there any of the 66 books in the Bible that did not originate from/inspired by God, not to mention that it's Moses of all people that will write anything he did not receive from God?
Moses just woke up and started writing his own laws. Lmao..
Someone whose every move and action was sanctioned by God. Where did you learn your own Bible abeg?


Deut 22:22 is talking about a man sleeping with a married woman.
I asked you to provide the verse talking about punishment for men not found to be virgins before marriage, whether it's in the Torah or in the Pentateuch or in the new testament or middle testament...just provide that please.

crackkhaus:

The difference between laws of Moses and those originating from God
Are you even reading what you're typing?

Is there any of the 66 books in the Bible that did not originate from/inspired by God, not to mention that it's Moses of all people that wrote anything he did not receive from God?
Moses just woke up and started writing his own laws. Lmao..
Someone whose every move and action was sanctioned by God. Where did you learn your own Bible abeg?


Deut 22:22 is talking about a man sleeping with a married woman.
I asked you to provide the verse talking about punishment for men not found to be virgins before marriage, whether it's in the Torah or in the Pentateuch or in the new testament or middle testament...just provide that na.

bukatyne:


If you don't understand the difference between the laws of Moses, and Laws originating from God like the ten commandments, golden rule etc. you cannot grasp my point.

There is no punishment for men who did not marry as virgins because there is no physical proof. What could be proven (Adultery) for men was punishable by death in Deut 22:22.

The above is still not God's direct commandment. Infact, after a while, those laws were not followed again.

As early as Proverbs, the writer was warning men to shun adultery or sleeping with married women as apart from the spiritual implications, the husband could deal with the man in annoyance and jealousy.

Your specific question answered in my previous post.

Not ready to continue this back and forth especially as you don't know the difference between the the types of laws.

bukatyne:

Your specific question answered in my previous post.

Not ready to continue this back and forth especially as you don't know the difference between the the types of laws.

Madam you're the one kicking yourself in the foot. I very well know the difference between the 10commandments written by the hand of God himself and those written by Moses through ministration from God and this difference is purely in the method they were given.
Both are equally important because they are still from God.

You claiming that laws of Moses did not originate from God because God did not write them with his own hands like he did with the 10commandments on mount Sinai, is blasphemy. In those days, you would probably have been captured and hanged by the Jewish council for making such a statement.

So the summary of the whole conversation is that there is no verse in the Bible talking about a law and punishment against men who are not virgins before marriage, SIMPLE
I don't know what you mean by "physical proof", unless you're now trying to imply that all the laws in the Bible were given because there was already physical proof This does not even make a single sense

Her Dad is right because he cares about her. If he/she really wants to wish Valentine's day to each other just give Valentine's day flowers or gifts to each other it's not essential to have sex on Valentine's day.