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Challenge To Nairaland Atheists - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Nobody: 8:39pm On Mar 04, 2020
LordReed:


So you ran from our conversation to come here to make mouth? LoL
O my! ran! For one who accused me of making assumptions, haven't you walked off the limb.
Was there anything I should have been running from? Bring it on here then, where all atheists here can see it. The only people that would always run are those who are in denial, my friend.
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by LordReed(m): 8:40pm On Mar 04, 2020
RealMrNigerD:

O my! ran! For one who accused me of making assumptions, haven't you walked off the limb.
Was there anything I should have been running from? Bring it on here then, where all atheists here can see it. The only people that would always run are those who are in denial, my friend.

Then go back and continue the conversation. I answered your question there.
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Firstnebo: 8:44pm On Mar 04, 2020
LordReed:


Can you objectively show that there were more earthquakes in recent times than in the past?

Do you need a god to tell you that as population grows, disease incidences would have greater statistical occurance with higher significant outcomes?

You need a god to convince you that killing is bad?

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Firstnebo: 8:48pm On Mar 04, 2020
LordReed:


Can you objectively show that there were more earthquakes in recent times than in the past?

Do you need a god to tell you that as population grows, disease incidences would have greater statistical occurance with higher significant outcomes?

You need a god to convince you that killing is bad?


If according to the theory of evolution species are shedding their less useful parts for more needed parts, why are we not developing more resistance for bacterias and viruses instead of becoming increasingly susceptible to attacks by different versions of them?

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Nobody: 8:50pm On Mar 04, 2020
kingxsamz:


And what are these pointers?
O common! you know them. The laws of science all point to the existence of god. The first law of conservation of matter is interpreted to mean God was the uncreated first cause.
Then again is the equilibrium that exists in the universe, shows that a god guided by justice has to be behind sustaining the universe, else there should be no equilibrium. It takes a lot of intellectual investment to bring balance when you have so many forces at work. Every engineer knows that.
Then you have the order that exists in the universe. We don't come into a very well arranged house and think it just happened. All scientific laws point to order rather than chaos which is expected when things just happen. There must be an intelligence to create and maintain order. When you see a robot, you don't have to wait to meet the manufacturers before you believe they exist, do you? We have never seen an accidental robot, not to talk of a well organized universe as gigantic as ours...
Should I go on?
Now don't forget my challenge to prove evolution while you're on this.
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Fash20: 8:51pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:


There are more than proofs. For starters the existence of the Bible is a clear evidence there's a God.

A God who not only knew how the world started, but even prophesied many things were are witnessing today with our own eyes. (And that was thousands of years back).

There are many things the world wouldn't know today if there was no Bible. There are information about the world than can only be detailed by the Bible

What the fvck did I just read?
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by LordReed(m): 8:51pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:
.

http://www.earthquakes.bgs.ac.uk/news/EQ_increase.html

Is Earthquake Activity Increasing?
Recent devastating earthquakes in Haiti, Chile and China, as well as magnitude 7 plus earthquakes in Indonesia and California, might give the impression that earthquake activity is increasing. In fact, a quick look at earthquake statistics over the last twenty years shows that this is not the case. On average there are about fifteen earthquakes every year with a magnitude of 7 or greater. As with any quasi-random phenomena, the number of earthquakes each year varies slightly from this average, but in general, there are no dramatic variations. So far this year, there have been six magnitude 7+ earthquakes, in keeping with the annual rate.

http://earthquakescanada.nrcan.gc.ca/info-gen/faq-en.php#increase

Are earthquakes really on the increase?
No, earthquakes occur at more or less at the same rate every year.

https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/why-are-we-having-so-many-earthquakes-has-naturally-occurring-earthquake-activity-been?qt-news_science_products=0#qt-news_science_products

Why are we having so many earthquakes? Has naturally occurring earthquake activity been increasing? Does this mean a big one is going to hit? OR We haven't had any earthquakes in a long time; does this mean that the pressure is building up for a big one?
A temporary increase or decrease in seismicity is part of the normal fluctuation of earthquake rates. Neither an increase or decrease worldwide is a positive indication that a large earthquake is imminent.

The ComCat earthquake catalog contains an increasing number of earthquakes in recent years not because there are more earthquakes, but because there are more seismic instruments and they are able to record more earthquakes.

The National Earthquake Information Center now locates about 20,000 earthquakes each year, or approximately 55 per day. As a result of the improvements in communications and the increased interest in natural disasters, the public now learns about earthquakes more quickly than ever before.

According to long-term records (since about 1900), we expect about 16 major earthquakes in any given year, which includes 15 earthquakes in the magnitude 7 range and one earthquake magnitude 8.0 or greater. In the past 44 years, from 1973 through 2017, our records show that we have exceeded the long-term average number of major earthquakes only 11 times, in 1976, 1990, 1995, 1999, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2015, and 2016.

The year with the largest total was 2010, with 24 earthquakes greater than or equal to magnitude 7.0. In other years the total was well below the 16 per year expected based on the long-term average: 1989 only saw 6, while 1988 saw only 7 major earthquakes.

3 Likes

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Fash20: 8:54pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:


The Bible is not physical enough for you? Or the increase in diseases and earthquakes in this our time as prophesied by the Bible is not physical enough for you? And the proliferation of dubious religious organisations as prophesied by the Bible for our time nko?

The fact that a former community that used to sacrifice their twins decided to change that tradition because of learning additional things about God from the Bible, is it physical enough for you?

Or are you still doubting because God exists in a form that cannot be directly seen by men? Have you seen the air before? Why do you believe it exists?

Increase in diseases... If you know how many disease humanity has already conquered you wouldn't be say that.

1 Like

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Firstnebo: 8:56pm On Mar 04, 2020
kingxsamz:


Yes I'm asking you if you acknowledge the existence of other gods asides your religion...

Yes. Their gods exist. But they are not who they think they are.

1 Corinthians 10:19, 20: "What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils [demons], and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by kingxsamz(m): 8:56pm On Mar 04, 2020
RealMrNigerD:

O common! you know them. The laws of science all point to the existence of god. The first law of conservation of matter is interpreted to mean God was the uncreated first cause.
Then again is the equilibrium that exists in the universe, shows that a god guided by justice has to be behind sustaining the universe, else there should be no equilibrium. It takes a lot of intellectual investment to bring balance when you have so many forces at work. Every engineer knows that.
Then you have the order that exists in the universe. We don't come into a very well arranged house and think it just happened. All scientific laws point to order rather than chaos which is expected when things just happen. There must be an intelligence to create and maintain order. When you see a robot, you don't have to wait to meet the manufacturers before you believe they exist, do you? We have never seen an accidental robot, not to talk of a well organized universe as gigantic as ours...
Should I go on?
Now don't forget my challenge to prove evolution while you're on this.

In summary, there can not be a product without a creator, right?
Okay.
Now let's just assume that this God exists.
Who created this God? undecided

1 Like

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by LordReed(m): 8:56pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:



If according to the theory of evolution species are shedding their less useful parts for more needed parts, why are we not developing more resistance for bacterias and viruses instead of becoming increasingly susceptible to attacks by different versions of them?

This is not an answer to the question I asked. Answer that first, then we can then talk about evolution and what we can predict from it.
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by kingxsamz(m): 9:02pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:


Yes. Their gods exist. But they are not who they think they are.

1 Corinthians 10:19, 20: "What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils [demons], and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

But how do you know your god is the creator?
Because I'm sure they also believe their God is the creator of the universe.
Now tell me, don't you think you'd have believed their god to be the true god if you were born into their belief, tradition, culture and background?
Do you think you'll be here preaching about the Christian God?

4 Likes

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Firstnebo: 9:05pm On Mar 04, 2020
LordReed:


This is not an answer to the question I asked. Answer that first, then we can then talk about evolution and what we can predict from it.

If people lived as God intended them to live, under his command rather than under human government, the earth would be so clean and so orderly there won't be any diseases
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Firstnebo: 9:08pm On Mar 04, 2020
8
kingxsamz:


In summary, there can not be a product without a creator, right?
Okay.
Now let's just assume that this God exists.
Who created this God? undecided

Proved science has already agreed there must be a First Cause. Though they have tried to give the first cause an inanimate explanation.

They base their conclusions in their findings that the earth actually had a beginning. So what's that First Cause?

The Bible answers "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" Genesis 1:1
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by LordReed(m): 9:09pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:


If people lived as God intended them to live, under his command rather than under human government, the earth would be so clean and so orderly there won't be any diseases

The question again: Do you need a god to tell you that as population grows, disease incidences would have greater statistical occurrence with higher significant outcomes?

1 Like

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by LordReed(m): 9:11pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:
8

Proved science has already agreed there must be a First Cause. Though they have tried to give the first cause an inanimate explanation.

They base their conclusions in their findings that the earth actually had a beginning. So what's that First Cause?

Proved science has agreed with no such thing. Science has not concluded that there is a first cause, you can show a published scientific journal to the contrary.
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by kingxsamz(m): 9:12pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:


If people lived as God intended them to live, under his command rather than under human government, the earth would be so clean and so orderly there won't be any diseases

Looking for the sense in this post.
If God foresaw the outcome of his creation, why didn't he do anything to prevent it?
Or isn't he omniscient again?
He knew humans won't live the way he intended, yet he still went ahead with his creation...
And if his creation didn't go the way he intended, then that means he's not perfect as you depict him to be...

2 Likes

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Firstnebo: 9:13pm On Mar 04, 2020
LordReed:


The question again: Do you need a god to tell you that as population grows, disease incidences would have greater statistical occurrence with higher significant outcomes?

The answer is why are people not living diseases free since evolution Said we are evolving upwards?

Then another answer is that if Adam and Eve have not listened to Satan and removed us from under God's rulership, no matter how many the earth's population is, would would be diseases free
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by LordReed(m): 9:17pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:


The answer is why are people not living diseases free since evolution Said we are evolving upwards?

Then another answer is that if Adam and Eve have not listened to Satan and removed us from under God's rulership, no matter how many the earth's population is, would would be diseases free

I am expecting either yes I need god to tell me or no I don't need a god to tell me because that is how simple the question is. Why are you dodging off to these other things? Was it not you said we should take it one step at a time? Can you now answer the question straight forward?
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Firstnebo: 9:21pm On Mar 04, 2020
kingxsamz:


But how do you know your god is the creator?
Because I'm sure they also believe their God is the creator of the universe.
Now tell me, don't you think you'd have believed their god to be the true god if you were born into their belief, tradition, culture and background?
Do you think you'll be here preaching about the Christian God?

The reason I know is simple. There are religious books to help me understand who God is actually. And the Bible has proving to be the only one that stood the test of time and the test of science.

About whether I would not have believed their gods is the true one if I was born amidst them. The answer is that there are thousands born among them who have actually now learnt about God and are now worshipping the true one.

Personally, I was born a Catholic and worshipped as such until I learnt the truth about the true God from the pages of the Bible. So I can as well been able to be open minded enough to search for the truth
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by kingxsamz(m): 9:24pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:
8

Proved science has already agreed there must be a First Cause. Though they have tried to give the first cause an inanimate explanation.

They base their conclusions in their findings that the earth actually had a beginning. So what's that First Cause?

The Bible answers "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" Genesis 1:1

Mr man, you haven't answered my question.

Yes, it's true that science doesn't have proof of what prompted the element which caused the big bang.
But then, how can you conclude that it is God who created it and that God had always existed?

Doesn't that flaw the Point you made about things not existing without a manufacturer?
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by kingxsamz(m): 9:26pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:




Then another answer is that if Adam and Eve have not listened to Satan and removed us from under God's rulership

Another question...
Did God know that Adam would disobey him before creation?

1 Like

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Firstnebo: 9:29pm On Mar 04, 2020
LordReed:


I am expecting either yes I need god to tell me or no I don't need a god to tell me because that is how simple the question is. Why are you dodging off to these other things? Was it not you said we should take it one step at a time? Can you now answer the question straight forward?

Remember that the comment I made that prompted you to ask the question in the first place is where I said that God prophesied that in out time there will be increase of diseases. Then you asked why I need God to tell me that an increase of population would mean an increase of diseases.


Then my answer is: 1) why should it be so since theory of evolution would have us believe we evolve upwards.
2) another answer is that we wouldn't be facing diseases today if Adam had not taken us away from under God's rulership
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by kingxsamz(m): 9:30pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:


About whether I would not have believed their gods is the true one if I was born amidst them. The answer is that there are thousands born among them who have actually now learnt about God and are now worshipping the true one.


Smh...
You really know how to dodge questions...
I ask again.
Would you have believed their god to be the true god if you were born into their belief, tradition, culture and background?
Do you think you'll be here preaching about the Christian God?

It's a simple question nw...

1 Like

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by kingxsamz(m): 9:40pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:


Remember that the comment I made that prompted you to ask the question in the first place is where I said that God prophesied that in out time there will be increase of diseases. Then you asked why I need God to tell me that an increase of population would mean an increase of diseases.


Then my answer is: 1) why should it be so since theory of evolution would have us believe we evolve upwards.
2) another answer is that we wouldn't be facing diseases today if Adam had not taken us away from under God's rulership

You have not answered the question logically.
Do you need someone to tell you that if you put your hand into fire, you'll get hurt?
Obviously you don't, because you have a brain, and therefore know the outcome of certain actions.
What he's trying to tell you is that, same way we all expect the harmattan during the December/January period, that's the same way it's expected that there will be more frequent diseases and earthquakes in the future...
It's not rocket science.
So there's nothing special if the bible has these details and it came to pass. It is something one would know without the bible telling us...
Get it now?
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by LordReed(m): 9:41pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:


Remember that the comment I made that prompted you to ask the question in the first place is where I said that God prophesied that in out time there will be increase of diseases. Then you asked why I need God to tell me that an increase of population would mean an increase of diseases.


Then my answer is: 1) why should it be so since theory of evolution would have us believe we evolve upwards.
2) another answer is that we wouldn't be facing diseases today if Adam had not taken us away from under God's rulership

So I take it you don't want to answer in a straightforward manner? Ok. I will also take it that you suspect your answer will lead you to trouble down the road. We shall see.

Now 1) why should it be so since theory of evolution would have us believe we evolve upwards.

Wrong, evolution does not posit an upward evolution, that is from popular fiction.

2) another answer is that we wouldn't be facing diseases today if Adam had not taken us away from under God's rulership

There is no evidence any such person or time period occurred. There is no evidence there was a time human beings were disease free.

1 Like

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Firstnebo: 9:43pm On Mar 04, 2020
kingxsamz:


Another question...
Did God know that Adam would disobey him before creation?

A car manufacturer knows there is a possibility the car may break down and there is a possibility the car will last the test of time, yet he makes it because it needed to be made.

God created us with freewill, not as robots. So there's a chance we will abuse the free will and act against him. But because he is almighty, he has a way to put us back on the right path.(for example, he sent Jesus to pay the price for the sin of Adam.) Just like the vehicle manufacturer has spare parts for any broken part
Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Bacteriologist(m): 9:49pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:


A car manufacturer knows there is a possibility the car may break down and there is a possibility the car will last the test of time, yet he makes it because it needed to be made.

God created us with freewill, not as robots. So there's a chance we will abuse the free will and act against him. But because he is almighty, he has a way to put us back on the right path.(for example, he sent Jesus to pay the price for the sin of Adam.) Just like the vehicle manufacturer has spare parts for any broken part

Wrong analogy. A car manufacturer is not all-knowing.

An all-knowing entity, on the other hand, KNOWS what you will do. Including if YOU will disobey him.

He KNOWS EVERYTHING you will do right from you when you were born. He knew I will become an Atheist.

A free-willed creation and an all-knowing god cannot coexist.

If your god is all-knowing, free will does not exist. As we're all just acting out what he pre-knew.

If free will exists, then your god is not omniscient.

Choose one.

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Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Firstnebo: 9:49pm On Mar 04, 2020
LordReed:


Proved science has agreed with no such thing. Science has not concluded that there is a first cause, you can show a published scientific journal to the contrary.

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by kingxsamz(m): 9:50pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:


A car manufacturer knows there is a possibility the car may break down and there is a possibility the car will last the test of time, yet he makes it because it needed to be made.

God created us with freewill, not as robots. So there's a chance we will abuse the free will and act against him. But because he is almighty, he has a way to put us back on the right path.(for example, he sent Jesus to pay the price for the sin of Adam.) Just like the vehicle manufacturer has spare parts for any broken part

Did God know we would abuse the free will given to us and sin against him?
If he knew, why didn't he prevent the outcome?

Another question. Does God know the exact people and amount of people that would end up in hell and heaven?

1 Like

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Bacteriologist(m): 9:54pm On Mar 04, 2020
Firstnebo:




So let's assume there was a first cause.

So what? Does that mean Yahweh did it? As far as I'm concerned it could have been
1. Olodumare
2. Allah
3. Odin
4. Thor
5. Spiderman
6. The flying spaghetti monster
7. Sango
8. Santa Clause
9. Buddha
10. Shiva
11. Vishnu
12. Zeus
13. Kratos
14. Ogun
15. Amadioha
16. Satan
I could go on to 4000 really...

You would still have to show how there being a first cause automatically means your god is real or that he did it?

Good luck with demonstrating that.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Challenge To Nairaland Atheists by Firstnebo: 9:56pm On Mar 04, 2020
Bacteriologist:


Wrong analogy. A car manufacturer is not all-knowing.

An all-knowing entity, on the other hand, KNOWS what you will do. Including if YOU will disobey him.

He KNOWS EVERYTHING you will do right from you when you were born. He knew I will become an Atheist.

A free-willed creation and an all-knowing god cannot coexist.

If your god is all-knowing, free will does not exist. As we're all just acting out what he pre-knew.

If free will exists, then your god is not omniscient.

Choose one.

Do you mean that all knowing = all causing?

That God has the ability to know everything, does it mean that he must cause everything?

Does the fact that God has the ability to know everything mean that he uses that ability everything single minute?

If a person knows how to sing very well, do you expect him to sing every minute of his life? Would he not be considered mad? So that God has the ability to know everything, are you saying he doesn't have the ability to restrict how he uses and applies it?

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