MelesZenawi:


The geography doesn't in any correlate your claim and history has never in any laid credence to such.

But Benin/Yoruba is highly undebatable..and historical facts conflicting with no end. So it is safe to say they are one people with different names. Same origin.

What you see as historical facts conflicting started most recently by the Yorubas trying to rewrite their history as a unified one to make themselves look good.

Before 1897 when the British invaded and put an end to the old Benin empire, everyone knows where they stand.

The well documented History of Benin for centuries made no reference to Yoruba or Igbo as a unified tribe or one people because these tribes didn't always exist as one.

That is not to say that Benin did not interacted with some tribes in the West and East who are now part of the larger Yoruba and Igbo groups.

In dealing with Benin/Yoruba relationship, you have to look at it from the position of Benin relationship with the individual tribes in other not to muddle things up and confuse yourself.

There are the Benin/Akure relationship, Benin/Ekiti Relationship, Benin/Lagos relationship, etc.

Same with Benin/ various Igbo tribes relationship and Benin/ middle belt or North relationships.

These relationships varied depending on how cooperative or rebellious and close proximity to Benin.

Today, you will see someone whose former tribe be it Igbo or Yoruba had a nominal relationship with Benin, now arguing that Benin kingdom didn't extend their influence to Igbo land or Yoruba land.

You will see, a now member of the wider Igbo tribe arguing Benin/Onitsha relationship with prominent Onitsha indigines, same way someone from formerly little known Yoruba tribes will argue Lagos/Benin relationship with prominent Lagos indigines including the Oba of Lagos himself.

It's easy for an Igbo person to get confused seeing all these Benin/Yoruba debates online because the Yorubas of today makes it look like they used to be one big unified tribe for centuries.

Imagine reading about Benin/Oyo relationship which is different from Akure/Benin relationship which is different from Benin/Lagos relationship but all being presented as one history.

You could read an account about how Benin once beheaded an Oba from one Yoruba tribe from the indigines of that place themselves only for you to see another person from a different Yoruba tribe jumps in to shout this person down saying it never happened.

When Oba of Lagos and most of his white cap chiefs says that they are from Benin, you will see someone from Ogbomosho jumps in to argue that they don't know what they are saying.

Back to similarities between old Benin kingdom people and Yoruba, Igbo and Northerners.

Depending on where you a looking from, a Yoruba man can easily mistake a Benin man to be an Igbo man, numerous Yorubas initially thought I am Igbo until I correct them and some of them don't see the difference between Benin and Igbo

Same as some Igbos mistaking Benin to be Yorubas.

Even some Nigerians will mistake Edo North people to be Northerners because of their names and Islamic religion.

These are the consequences of being an empire, there will always be cultural overlaps from interaction from various tribes that the empire came into contact with.

This is the reason Benin is more diverse in terms of people, food, music, culture etc.

Benin is a mini Nigeria and probably the most liberal city in Nigeria, if in doubt, ask the various tribes that resides there. Tribalism is near zero.

Dyonne:


There is a relationship it's just that there's disagreement on what that relationship is.
History is very clear though and the Benin Empire extended even beyond Yoruba land into Dahomey.

This is very well documented. If the Benins had used the same model as the British Empire, we wouldn't be having this discussion as Yorubas would be speaking Benin language today.

Word on marble.

People believe all empires worked like the British and European ones did. Ottoman empire perhaps had more in common with Benin Empire. Aside Ottoman spreading religion.

Ottoman Empire spanned the Middle East, parts of Eurasia, Eastern Europe, North Africa and parts of the Mediterranean.

But never really enforced Turkish language. Not even on related Turkic tribes in Eurasia. Even with the benefit of their written language.

The European colonialists had suffered famines, they needed food, some of their seafarers were adventurers, some even became pirates. They wanted to loot, subjugate and make much wealth.
Benin didn't need or want all that.

Benin only wanted to be the elite to run the affairs of new lands. The language also remained language of the Imperial elite at the centre.

Benin always had the idiom "Gie no z'eka gha z'eka. Ama z'evbuomwan ta wiri. Meaning let every man speak his language. A man who lost his language is lost.

Benin didn't have that inhumanity to disposess people of things thought fundamental to them. Benin operated at a very high level of administrative, military, philosophical, artistic, organisational and social acumen than Europeans thought African people deep in the rainforest area were capable of when they arrived.

Oba Esigie was baptised in 1504. Just prior to becoming king. Same period of first Benin Embassy in Lisbon, Portugal.

The 1515 Benin-Idah war was well documented by the Portuguese. Officially the first West African king to be baptised. Baptised good about 30 years before Anglican church began the schism from the Catholic church.

Loyalty from new subjects was most important to Benin. Not taking their land, fundamental freedoms, property or language from them. Two independent writings are examples. Olaudah Equianoh identified himself as an Ibo and citizen of Benin Kingdom in 1700s. He wrote about how the inhumanity of the Europeans to slaves never was in his homeland.

About same period a French explorer and trader Monsieur Randolphe narrated that on his way from Benin City to Gwatto Port, of about 100 slaves on sale along the way, both slaves and their sellers were either Igbo or Yoruba.

Supporting the already known fact that Benin had banned slave trade. But other ethnic groups in the empire settled with the King to allow them buy and sell themselves. But no Benin person was allowed to buy or sell slaves and no Benin person could be bought or sold. Although the King was reluctant, he decided to grant them that freedom of trade.

It's obvious many who argue here on NL have little knowledge of history. Never mind comparative history spanning classical history to the mid 20th century.

If they had they would know that empires at different times and locations used slightly different methods. Including their religious, cultural or other unique and peculiar aspects.

AreaFada2:

Word on marble.

People believe all empires worked like the British and European ones did. Ottoman empire perhaps had more in common with Benin Empire. Aside Ottoman spreading religion.

Ottoman Empire spanned the Middle East, parts of Eurasia, Eastern Europe, North Africa and parts of the Mediterranean.

But never really enforced Turkish language. Not even on related Turkic tribes in Eurasia. Even with the benefit of their written language.

The European colonialists had suffered famines, they needed food, some of their seafarers were adventurers, some even became pirates. They wanted to loot, subjugate and make much wealth.
Benin didn't need or want all that.

Benin only wanted to be the elite to run the affairs of new lands. The language also remained language of the Imperial elite at the centre.

Benin always had the idiom "Gie no z'eka gha z'eka. Ama z'evbuomwan ta wiri. Meaning let every man speak his language. A man who lost his language is lost.

Benin didn't have that inhumanity to disposess people of things thought fundamental to them. Benin operated at a very high level of administrative, military, philosophical, artistic, organisational and social acumen than Europeans thought African people deep in the rainforest area were capable of when they arrived.

Oba Esigie was baptised in 1504. Just prior to becoming king. Same period of first Benin Embassy in Lisbon, Portugal.

The 1515 Benin-Idah war was well documented by the Portuguese. Officially the first West African king to be baptised. Baptised good about 30 years before Anglican church began the schism from the Catholic church.

Loyalty from new subjects was most important to Benin. Not taking their land, fundamental freedoms, property or language from them. Two independent writings are examples. Olaudah Equianoh identified himself as an Ibo and citizen of Benin Kingdom in 1700s. He wrote about how the inhumanity of the Europeans to slaves never was in his homeland.

About same period a French explorer and trader Monsieur Randolphe narrated that on his way from Benin City to Gwatto Port, of about 100 slaves on sale along the way, both slaves and their sellers were either Igbo or Yoruba.

Supporting the already known fact that Benin had banned slave trade. But other ethnic groups in the empire settled with the King to allow them buy and sell themselves. But no Benin person was allowed to buy or sell slaves and no Benin person could be bought or sold. Although the King was reluctant, he decided to grant them that freedom of trade.

It's obvious many who argue here on NL have little knowledge of history. Never mind comparative history spanning classical history to to the mid 20th century.

If they had they would know that empires at different times and locations used slightly different methods. Including their religious, cultural or other unique and peculiar aspects.

Well stated.

And this lack of how different empires operated and little knowledge of history is why they keep questioning how the present day Benin with her size and population was able to extend her influence deep into the territory of the so called bigger tribes.

Perhaps most of them are not even aware that Rome, now a small city in Italy once ruled most European countries and beyond.

Unlike in Europe where the people study their history for what it is, our so called big tribes are attempting to rewrite centuries old well established history, even the history of the Nigeria civil war that occurred in 1960s with many of the actors still alive is being rewritten and fabricated to suit individual narratives.

AreaFada2:

Word on marble.

People believe all empires worked like the British and European ones did. Ottoman empire perhaps had more in common with Benin Empire. Aside Ottoman spreading religion.

Ottoman Empire spanned the Middle East, parts of Eurasia, Eastern Europe, North Africa and parts of the Mediterranean.

But never really enforced Turkish language. Not even on related Turkic tribes in Eurasia. Even with the benefit of their written language.

The European colonialists had suffered famines, they needed food, some of their seafarers were adventurers, some even became pirates. They wanted to loot, subjugate and make much wealth.
Benin didn't need or want all that.

Benin only wanted to be the elite to run the affairs of new lands. The language also remained language of the Imperial elite at the centre.

Benin always had the idiom "Gie no z'eka gha z'eka. Ama z'evbuomwan ta wiri. Meaning let every man speak his language. A man who lost his language is lost.

Benin didn't have that inhumanity to disposess people of things thought fundamental to them. Benin operated at a very high level of administrative, military, philosophical, artistic, organisational and social acumen than Europeans thought African people deep in the rainforest area were capable of when they arrived.

Oba Esigie was baptised in 1504. Just prior to becoming king. Same period of first Benin Embassy in Lisbon, Portugal.

The 1515 Benin-Idah war was well documented by the Portuguese. Officially the first West African king to be baptised. Baptised good about 30 years before Anglican church began the schism from the Catholic church.

Loyalty from new subjects was most important to Benin. Not taking their land, fundamental freedoms, property or language from them. Two independent writings are examples. Olaudah Equianoh identified himself as an Ibo and citizen of Benin Kingdom in 1700s. He wrote about how the inhumanity of the Europeans to slaves never was in his homeland.

About same period a French explorer and trader Monsieur Randolphe narrated that on his way from Benin City to Gwatto Port, of about 100 slaves on sale along the way, both slaves and their sellers were either Igbo or Yoruba.

Supporting the already known fact that Benin had banned slave trade. But other ethnic groups in the empire settled with the King to allow them buy and sell themselves. But no Benin person was allowed to buy or sell slaves and no Benin person could be bought or sold. Although the King was reluctant, he decided to grant them that freedom of trade.

It's obvious many who argue here on NL have little knowledge of history. Never mind comparative history spanning classical history to to the mid 20th century.

If they had they would know that empires at different times and locations used slightly different methods. Including their religious, cultural or other unique and peculiar aspects.

Let me buy this thought and simply put this way that if olaudah Equiano is alive today he will seen himself as igbo and a Nigeria citizen today.

Rightly put there is no need clinging to the past since governments has fallen and another took place.

In biafra olaudah will see himself as igbo and biafra citizen.

This simply answers the question of old bini govt.

samuk:


What you see as historical facts conflicting started most recently by the Yorubas trying to rewrite their history as a unified one to make themselves look good.

Before 1897 when the British invaded and put an end to the old Benin empire, everyone knows where they stand.

The well documented History of Benin for centuries made no reference to Yoruba or Igbo as a unified tribe or one people because these tribes didn't always exist as one.

That is not to say that Benin did not interacted with some tribes in the West and East who are now part of the larger Yoruba and Igbo groups.

In dealing with Benin/Yoruba relationship, you have to look at it from the position of Benin relationship with the individual tribes in other not to muddle things up and confuse yourself.

There are the Benin/Akure relationship, Benin/Ekiti Relationship, Benin/Lagos relationship, etc.

Same with Benin/ various Igbo tribes relationship and Benin/ middle belt or North relationships.

These relationships varied depending on how cooperative or rebellious and close proximity to Benin.

Today, you will see someone whose former tribe be it Igbo or Yoruba had a nominal relationship with Benin, now arguing that Benin kingdom didn't extend their influence to Igbo land or Yoruba land.

You will see, a now member of the wider Igbo tribe arguing Benin/Onitsha relationship with prominent Onitsha indigines, same way someone from formerly little known Yoruba tribes will argue Lagos/Benin relationship with prominent Lagos indigines including the Oba of Lagos himself.

It's easy for an Igbo person to get confused seeing all these Benin/Yoruba debates online because the Yorubas of today makes it look like they used to be one big unified tribe for centuries.

Imagine reading about Benin/Oyo relationship which is different from Akure/Benin relationship which different from Benin/Lagos relationship but all being presented as one history.

You could read an account about how Benin once beheaded an Oba from one Yoruba tribe from the indigines of that place themselves only for you to see another person from a different Yoruba tribe jumps in to shout this person down saying it never happened.

When Oba of Lagos and most of his white cap chiefs says that they are from Benin, you will see someone from Ogbomosho jumps in to argue that they don't know what they are saying.

Back to similarities between old Benin kingdom people and Yoruba, Igbo and Northerners.

Depending on where you a looking from, a Yoruba man can easily mistake a Benin man to be an Igbo man, numerous Yorubas initially thought I am Igbo until I correct them and some of them don't see the difference between Benin and Igbo

Same as some Igbos mistaking Benin to be Yorubas.

Even some Nigerians will mistake Edo North people to be Northerners because of their names and Islamic religion.

These are the consequences of being an empire, there will always be cultural overlaps from interaction from various tribes that the empire came into contact with.

This is the reason Benin is more diverse in terms of people, food, music, culture etc.

Benin is a mini Nigeria and probably the most liberal city in Nigeria, if in doubt, ask the various tribes that resides there. Tribalism is near zero.

Yorubas don't see bini as Igbo. Even in lagos I have never seen that rather it is bini that always dissociates them sometimes..


All is past and we are looking towards the future and a. Viable government. Nigeria can't remain one forever. One day it will cease to exist..and biafra will start their own country.

That has been the pattern for years...even before lord trapped everyone here.

MelesZenawi:


Yorubas don't see bini as Igbo. Even in lagos I have never seen that rather it is bini that always dissociates them sometimes..


All is past and we are looking towards the future and a. Viable government. Nigeria can't remain one forever. One day it will cease to exist..and biafra will start their own country.

That has been the pattern for years...even before lord trapped everyone here.

Benin and Yoruba do not only reside in Lagos alone, I have already given you my personal experience of being referred to as Igbo by Yoruba.

You must also understand that Lagos Yoruba may be more cosmopolitan and exposed than Yoruba from other places, besides, Lagos have always had a unique relationship with Benin.

Due to this unique relationship and shared common history, one can understand why an average Lagos Yoruba don't see themselves as different from the average Benin. The same may not be true about a Yoruba person from Ijebu.

Pursuing Biafra or Oduduwa republic doesn't mean we should begin to rewrite the history of the past.

Whilst we look forward to a better Nigeria or Biafra, the authenticity of history of the past have to be preserved for future generations, otherwise they will be feed lies and fabrications as history.

MelesZenawi:



Let me buy this thought and simply put this way that if olaudah Equiano is alive today he will seen himself as igbo and a Nigeria citizen today.

Rightly put there is no need clinging to the past since governments has fallen and another took place.

In biafra olaudah will see himself as igbo and biafra citizen.

This simply answers the question of old bini govt.

Meleszenawi, we only have a problem with those denying our history or attempting to rewrite it. Have you seen any Edo person trying to extend Edo State beyond the current constitutional boundaries?

Whatever people feel now or don't feel doesn't change history. Our history is part of our heritage. We are not going to allow envious upstarts to use population politics in a failing geographical contraption called Nigeria to twist it.

If history is so irrelevant as you claim why are others so obsessed with rewriting the well established Benin history?

Why do people like Ooni and Alake use falsehood to make unfounded and downright provocative statements? First find out people who begin these threads we are both commenting on. It's largely SW people.

So you guys should be allowed to peddle falsehood without being corrected. Then 25 years from now, you guys will use these posts here to back up more falsehood as the truth.

samuk:


Benin and Yoruba do not only reside in Lagos alone, I have already given you my personal experience of being referred to as Igbo by Yoruba.

You must also understand that Lagos Yoruba may be more cosmopolitan and exposed than Yoruba from other places, besides Lagos have always had a unique relationship with Benin.

Due to this unique relationship and shared common history, one can understand why an average Lagos Yoruba don't see themselves as different from the average Benin. The same may not be true about a Yoruba person from Ijebu.

Pursuing Biafra or Oduduwa republic doesn't mean we should begin to rewrite the history of the past.

Whilst we look forward to a better Nigeria or Biafra, the authenticity of history of the past have to be preserved for future generations, otherwise they will be feed lies and fabrications as history.

Looking forward to biafra.

You guys can better Nigeria when we are off. That has always been our stand.

samuk:


What you see as historical facts conflicting started most recently by the Yorubas trying to rewrite their history as a unified one to make themselves look good.

Before 1897 when the British invaded and put an end to the old Benin empire, everyone knows where they stand.

The well documented History of Benin for centuries made no reference to Yoruba or Igbo as a unified tribe or one people because these tribes didn't always exist as one.

That is not to say that Benin did not interacted with some tribes in the West and East who are now part of the larger Yoruba and Igbo groups.

In dealing with Benin/Yoruba relationship, you have to look at it from the position of Benin relationship with the individual tribes in other not to muddle things up and confuse yourself.

There are the Benin/Akure relationship, Benin/Ekiti Relationship, Benin/Lagos relationship, etc.

Same with Benin/ various Igbo tribes relationship and Benin/ middle belt or North relationships.

These relationships varied depending on how cooperative or rebellious and close proximity to Benin.

Today, you will see someone whose former tribe be it Igbo or Yoruba had a nominal relationship with Benin, now arguing that Benin kingdom didn't extend their influence to Igbo land or Yoruba land.

You will see, a now member of the wider Igbo tribe arguing Benin/Onitsha relationship with prominent Onitsha indigines, same way someone from formerly little known Yoruba tribes will argue Lagos/Benin relationship with prominent Lagos indigines including the Oba of Lagos himself.

It's easy for an Igbo person to get confused seeing all these Benin/Yoruba debates online because the Yorubas of today makes it look like they used to be one big unified tribe for centuries.

Imagine reading about Benin/Oyo relationship which is different from Akure/Benin relationship which different from Benin/Lagos relationship but all being presented as one history.

You could read an account about how Benin once beheaded an Oba from one Yoruba tribe from the indigines of that place themselves only for you to see another person from a different Yoruba tribe jumps in to shout this person down saying it never happened.

When Oba of Lagos and most of his white cap chiefs says that they are from Benin, you will see someone from Ogbomosho jumps in to argue that they don't know what they are saying.

Back to similarities between old Benin kingdom people and Yoruba, Igbo and Northerners.

Depending on where you a looking from, a Yoruba man can easily mistake a Benin man to be an Igbo man, numerous Yorubas initially thought I am Igbo until I correct them and some of them don't see the difference between Benin and Igbo

Same as some Igbos mistaking Benin to be Yorubas.

Even some Nigerians will mistake Edo North people to be Northerners because of their names and Islamic religion.

These are the consequences of being an empire, there will always be cultural overlaps from interaction from various tribes that the empire came into contact with.

This is the reason Benin is more diverse in terms of people, food, music, culture etc.

Benin is a mini Nigeria and probably the most liberal city in Nigeria, if in doubt, ask the various tribes that resides there. Tribalism is near zero.

.

Well spoken bro, but what is this Yoruba obsession with Benin?
Even the present Oba of Lagos knows very well Eko is Benin owned

AreaFada2:

Word on marble.

People believe all empires worked like the British and European ones did. Ottoman empire perhaps had more in common with Benin Empire. Aside Ottoman spreading religion.

Ottoman Empire spanned the Middle East, parts of Eurasia, Eastern Europe, North Africa and parts of the Mediterranean.

But never really enforced Turkish language. Not even on related Turkic tribes in Eurasia. Even with the benefit of their written language.

The European colonialists had suffered famines, they needed food, some of their seafarers were adventurers, some even became pirates. They wanted to loot, subjugate and make much wealth.
Benin didn't need or want all that.

Benin only wanted to be the elite to run the affairs of new lands. The language also remained language of the Imperial elite at the centre.

Benin always had the idiom "Gie no z'eka gha z'eka. Ama z'evbuomwan ta wiri. Meaning let every man speak his language. A man who lost his language is lost.

Benin didn't have that inhumanity to disposess people of things thought fundamental to them. Benin operated at a very high level of administrative, military, philosophical, artistic, organisational and social acumen than Europeans thought African people deep in the rainforest area were capable of when they arrived.

Oba Esigie was baptised in 1504. Just prior to becoming king. Same period of first Benin Embassy in Lisbon, Portugal.

The 1515 Benin-Idah war was well documented by the Portuguese. Officially the first West African king to be baptised. Baptised good about 30 years before Anglican church began the schism from the Catholic church.

Loyalty from new subjects was most important to Benin. Not taking their land, fundamental freedoms, property or language from them. Two independent writings are examples. Olaudah Equianoh identified himself as an Ibo and citizen of Benin Kingdom in 1700s. He wrote about how the inhumanity of the Europeans to slaves never was in his homeland.

About same period a French explorer and trader Monsieur Randolphe narrated that on his way from Benin City to Gwatto Port, of about 100 slaves on sale along the way, both slaves and their sellers were either Igbo or Yoruba.

Supporting the already known fact that Benin had banned slave trade. But other ethnic groups in the empire settled with the King to allow them buy and sell themselves. But no Benin person was allowed to buy or sell slaves and no Benin person could be bought or sold. Although the King was reluctant, he decided to grant them that freedom of trade.

It's obvious many who argue here on NL have little knowledge of history. Never mind comparative history spanning classical history to to the mid 20th century.

If they had they would know that empires at different times and locations used slightly different methods. Including their religious, cultural or other unique and peculiar aspects.

.

You know your history, I doubt if the oni of Ife has any documented history not oral history as old as that of the Oba
I learn something new 4rm u let me read further on it

MelesZenawi:



Looking forward to biafra.

You guys can better Nigeria when we are off. That has always been our stand.

You have to first convince Benin/Igbo and Igala/Igbo descendants in Anambra state of the viability of Biafra.

samuk:


You have to first convince Benin/Igbo and Igala/Igbo descendants in Anambra state of the viability of Biafra.

You are the one having headache on people that want out..

Benin/Igbo a and Igala/Igbo are simply fiction and Imagination because nothing like that is existing.

Decisions here are always collective. The last bus stop is igbo nation homogeneously and that's the biafra of our dream... Nothingelse.


Nigeria has the tendency to fully unite the remaining ethnic nationalities when Igbos are out..

Moreover , we can test run whether Igbos want to stay through agreed referendum on Igbo territories only and not on any other territory.


If Igbos are out even you can now raise suggestions on how Nigeria will be and how it will be run collectively..

MelesZenawi:


You are the one having headache on people that want out..

Benin/Igbo a and Igala/Igbo are simply fiction and Imagination because nothing like that is existing.

Decisions here are always collective. The last bus stop is igbo nation homogeneously and that's the biafra of our dream... Nothingelse.


Nigeria has the tendency to fully unite the remaining ethnic nationalities when Igbos are out..

Moreover , we can test run whether Igbos want to stay through agreed referendum on Igbo territories only and not on any other territory.


If Igbos are out even you can now raise suggestions on how Nigeria will be and how it will be run collectively..

You are already upsetting those that call themselves proud Igbo/Igala Anambra indigines by trying to deny them their heritage even before Biafra is achieved.

samuk:


You are already upsetting those that call themselves proud Igbo/Igala Anambra indigines by trying to deny them their heritage even before Biafra is achieved.

please where are they?

Not in Anambra state..It is just rumours. Anambra has captured all and everyone love the state..Igbo bu ofu ( Igbos are one).

We always say, come up with your republic and we will support you guys but always sabotaging our efforts is clear betrayal...

Whatever Bini wants today we will support them but they have to support our igbo biafra so that we can go.


What are friends and neighbors for. For instance from Benin to Onitsha is not even up to 1 hour..

why working against us.

Ctorch:
The Ooni of Ife, Adeyeye Ogunwusi, on 10 February 2016 said Benin Kingdom in Edo State remained part of the expansive Yoruba people, a pronouncement that may spark fresh rivalry and altercation between people of the two ancient kingdoms.


Yoruba Kingdoms - Benin and Ife
In 1975 the Republic of Dahomey changed its name to the Republic of Benin, after the Bight of Benin ["Where few come out but many go in”], which in turn was named after the Benin Empire, a powerful entity that existed from 1440 to 1897 in what is today Nigeria. "Benin" is a Portuguese corruption of "Ubinu," the administrative center of the Empire, which is today called Benin City, capital of Edo State. Dahomey's rechristening in 1975 caused no end of confusion ever since, so to clarify things: Benin City (the historical Benin Empire) is approximately 250 miles east of Porto Novo, capital of the present-day Republic of Benin. The two entities have no historical connection whatsoever.

The Yoruba kingdoms of Benin and Ife sprang up between the 11th and 12th centuries. The present-day Benin monarch declared his ancestry from Oranmiyan through Ekaladerhan and direct to the Ogiso dynasty. The statement made by the Ooni of Ife debunked the Oba of Benin's declaration of the ancestry of Benin Kings, insisting that Benin was one of the kingdoms founded by Oduduwa who descended from heaven to Ile-Ife with four hundred deities.

The Ooni of Ife, Adeyeye Ogunwusi, on 10 February 2016 said Benin Kingdom in Edo State remained part of the expansive Yoruba people, a pronouncement that may spark fresh rivalry and altercation between people of the two ancient kingdoms. The monarch made the comment in reaction to a statement credited to the palace of the Oba of Benin challenging the claim by the Alake of Egbaland, Adedotun Gbadebo, that the Ooni of Ife remained the pre-eminent spiritual leader in Yorubaland and environs. Oba Gbadebo said Oba Ogunwusi was number one of the five principal Obas in Yorubaland, followed by the Alaafin of Oyo, then by the Oba of Benin (in third position), the Alake of Egbaland (fourth) and the Awujale of Ijebuland (fifth). But in a swift reaction, the Esogban of Benin and Odionwere of the Kingdom, David Edebiri, rejected the ranking, saying the Ooni of Ife was a son of the Oba of Benin and that the Oba of Benin stool had no relationship with the Yoruba people.

As far as historical memory extends, the Yoruba have been the dominant group on the west bank of the Niger. Of mixed origin, they were the product of the assimilation of periodic waves of migrants who evolved a common language and culture. The Yoruba were organized in patrilineal descent groups that occupied village communities and subsisted on agriculture, but from about the eleventh century A.D., adjacent village compounds, called He, began to coalesce into a number of territorial city-states in which loyalties to the clan became subordinate to allegiance to a dynastic chieftain. This transition produced an urbanized political and social environment that was accompanied by a high level of artistic achievement, particularly in terra-cotta and ivory sculpture and in the sophisticated metal casting produced at Ife. The brass and bronze used by Yoruba artisans was a significant item of trade, made from copper, tin, and zinc imported either from North Africa or from mines in the Sahara and northern Nigeria.

The Yoruba placated a pantheon headed by an impersonal deity, Olorun, and included lesser deities, some of them formerly mortal, who performed a variety of cosmic and practical tasks. One of them, Oduduwa, was regarded as the creator of the earth and the ancestor of the Yoruba kings. According to a creation myth, Oduduwa founded the city of Ife and dispatched his sons to establish other cities, where they reigned as priest-kings and presided over cult rituals. Formal traditions of this sort have been interpreted as poetic illustrations of the historical process by which Ife's ruling dynasty extended its authority over Yorubaland. The stories were attempts to legitimize the Yoruba monarchies—after they had supplanted clan loyalties—by claiming divine origin.

Ife was the center of as many as 400 religious cults whose traditions were manipulated to political advantage by the oni (king) in the days of the kingdom's greatness. Ife also lay at the center of a trading network with the north. The oni supported his court with tolls levied on trade, tribute exacted from dependencies, and tithes due him as a religious leader. One of Ife's greatest legacies to modern Nigeria is its beautiful sculpture associated with this tradition.

The oni was chosen on a rotating basis from one of several branches of the ruling dynasty, which was composed of a clan with several thousand members. Once elected, he went into seclusion in the palace compound and was not seen again by his people. Below the oni in the state hierarchy were palace officials, town chiefs, and the rulers of outlying dependencies. The palace officials were spokesmen for the oni and the rulers of dependencies who had their own subordinate officials. All offices, even that of the oni, were elective and depended on broad support within the community. Each official was chosen from among the eligible clan members who had hereditary right to the office. Members of the royal dynasty often were assigned to govern dependencies, while the sons of palace officials assumed lesser roles as functionaries, bodyguards to the oni, and judges.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/africa/yoruba.htm

The ooni is sounding retarded benin never encountered ife in anytime in history the stody of Oduduwa was fake and fabricated, the Europeans over four hundred years of trading in benin never encountered benin and ife connections,

If you need prove i will supply you

Oduduwa story is fake stop spreading it

AreaFada2:

I believe in what science and research can teach us. Not wild speculation. For example Mecca and Vatican city are deserted. They are all waiting for science to find solution. All those miracle workers have gone quiet. I use this illustrate that science eventually trumps.
Therefore, anthropology and philology are areas that have been used to shed more light on how peoples of Africa relate. Recently genetics has been added.

None of these studies show any close tie between Benin and Yoruba. Both relate in same way as they relate to Igbo. All are Kwa Niger-Congo people. Diverging from the ancestral root long ago.

Benin and related Edoid people like Degema in Rivers, Urhobo, Isoko, Ekpeye, Epie in Bayelsa and so on are well known. Yoruboid group like Yoruba, Okun, Igbira and so on are known.

Same applies worldwide. Finnish people are related to Hungarians, not nearby Swedes or Norwegians.

But people prefer to wallow in ignorance sadly.

The name EDO is Yoruba language.
Uselu is Yoruba language.
Bini is Yoruba language.
Ogisos were the proxies of Ife, foreigners sent to rule the forest people.


Your native language has "gh", "v", "z" with vowelized words.

Why is Edo not in your indigeneous lexicon...or Oba, or Uselu, and many other words sorrounding your palace and his sacred shrines...like Olokun?

You are ruled by a foreigner, an Ife ancestral blood.

MetaPhysical:


The name EDO is Yoruba language.
Uselu is Yoruba language.
Bini is Yoruba language.
Ogisos were the proxies of Ife, foreigners sent to rule the forest people.


Your native language has "gh", "v", "z" with vowelized words.

Why is Edo not in your indigeneous lexicon...or Oba, or Uselu, and many other words sorrounding your palace and his sacred shrines...like Olokun?

You are ruled by a foreigner, an Ife ancestral blood.

cc

samuk

MetaPhysical:


The name EDO is Yoruba language.
Uselu is Yoruba language.
Bini is Yoruba language.
Ogisos were the proxies of Ife, foreigners sent to rule the forest people.


Your native language has "gh", "v", "z" with vowelized words.

Why is Edo not in your indigeneous lexicon...or Oba, or Uselu, and many other words sorrounding your palace and his sacred shrines...like Olokun?

You are ruled by a foreigner, an Ife ancestral blood.

Since I can smell your historical and scientific ignorance from thousands of miles away, no need engaging you at all. Continue in your ignorance.

MetaPhysical:


The name EDO is Yoruba language.
Uselu is Yoruba language.
Bini is Yoruba language.
Ogisos were the proxies of Ife, foreigners sent to rule the forest people.


Your native language has "gh", "v", "z" with vowelized words.

Why is Edo not in your indigeneous lexicon...or Oba, or Uselu, and many other words sorrounding your palace and his sacred shrines...like Olokun?

You are ruled by a foreigner, an Ife ancestral blood.

Since I can smell your historical and scientific ignorance from thousands of miles away, no need engaging you at all. Continue in your ignorance.

In Japan, 1603-1867 is called the Edo period. A period of most stable peace and stability until then. In Japan names like Sayuki, Osasu, Osamu and others are common names.

In your logic, I should be on my way to claim Kyoto, Tokyo and indeed Japan as Benin territory.

MelesZenawi:


cc

samuk

You guys enjoy this free Benin history lessons. The guy can go to the other thread to educate himself on Benin/Yoruba history.

No need to populate this thread with already available information in a similar thread.

As the Benins have already shown in the other thread, the Benin/Ife history was manufactured sometimes after 1823. Before this time there are nothing about Benin/Ife relationship recorded in Benin history.

Europeans stated visiting and recording Benin history since the 1400s AD.

For the first four hundred years of European contact and recording of Benin history, there was nothing about Benin/Ife relationship written or can be found in the numerous European archives that still houses Benin history.

It was the early educated Yorubas with some historians of Benin/Yoruba heritages that stated infusing Yoruba into Benin history in other to create a united western Nigeria which eventually fell apart in 1963 after the mid west walked away due to Yoruba tribalism.

Apart from outright fabrications of evidence to support the new Benin/Ife revisionist history, the scholars went through the vast archives of Benin artworks and begin to ascribe Ife to Benin artworks that originally made references to others tribes such as the Nupe and Igala. Nupe and Igala people were replaced with Ife/Yoruba people.

Statements that were initially made about rulers of now middle belt of Nigeria were now ascribed and presented to be referring to the Ooni of Ife.

They came up with a burial site for Obas of Benin in Ife Orun Oba Ado which was excavated and no human bones found.

On the other thread, gregyboy did a very brilliant job of analysis by analysing one of the Benin artworks that TA011 provided as depicting Ife messager to Benin.

Gregyboy was able to compare the artworks with photos of modern day Nupe and Igala people and they match, the artwork bears no resemblance to photos of Ife/Yoruba people provided.

I already did a summary of this on that thread.

There were also piece of evidence like the cross the messager was wearing that can't be found anywhere in early Ife history.

If you juxtapose all these with other evidences that can still be seen in Benin and early Europeans writing of Benin Idah relationship, you will understand that the Yorubas people are trying to replace other tribes such as the Nupe and Igala in old Benin empire history with themselves.

That's not to say that Benin didn't have some sort of relationship with various different Yoruba tribes such as Owo, Akure, Ekiti, Lagos, etc.

Benin/Ife history is a fake, it was fabricated in the 19th century.

You guys shouldn't expect me to be saying much on this thread because this has already be dealt with in the other thread, anyone interested should go there and read.

samuk:


What you see as historical facts conflicting started most recently by the Yorubas trying to rewrite their history as a unified one to make themselves look good.

Before 1897 when the British invaded and put an end to the old Benin empire, everyone knows where they stand.

The well documented History of Benin for centuries made no reference to Yoruba or Igbo as a unified tribe or one people because these tribes didn't always exist as one.

That is not to say that Benin did not interacted with some tribes in the West and East who are now part of the larger Yoruba and Igbo groups.

In dealing with Benin/Yoruba relationship, you have to look at it from the position of Benin relationship with the individual tribes in other not to muddle things up and confuse yourself.

There are the Benin/Akure relationship, Benin/Ekiti Relationship, Benin/Lagos relationship, etc.

Same with Benin/ various Igbo tribes relationship and Benin/ middle belt or North relationships.

These relationships varied depending on how cooperative or rebellious and close proximity to Benin.

Today, you will see someone whose former tribe be it Igbo or Yoruba had a nominal relationship with Benin, now arguing that Benin kingdom didn't extend their influence to Igbo land or Yoruba land.

You will see, a now member of the wider Igbo tribe arguing Benin/Onitsha relationship with prominent Onitsha indigines, same way someone from formerly little known Yoruba tribes will argue Lagos/Benin relationship with prominent Lagos indigines including the Oba of Lagos himself.

It's easy for an Igbo person to get confused seeing all these Benin/Yoruba debates online because the Yorubas of today makes it look like they used to be one big unified tribe for centuries.

Imagine reading about Benin/Oyo relationship which is different from Akure/Benin relationship which is different from Benin/Lagos relationship but all being presented as one history.

You could read an account about how Benin once beheaded an Oba from one Yoruba tribe from the indigines of that place themselves only for you to see another person from a different Yoruba tribe jumps in to shout this person down saying it never happened.

When Oba of Lagos and most of his white cap chiefs says that they are from Benin, you will see someone from Ogbomosho jumps in to argue that they don't know what they are saying.

Back to similarities between old Benin kingdom people and Yoruba, Igbo and Northerners.

Depending on where you a looking from, a Yoruba man can easily mistake a Benin man to be an Igbo man, numerous Yorubas initially thought I am Igbo until I correct them and some of them don't see the difference between Benin and Igbo

Same as some Igbos mistaking Benin to be Yorubas.

Even some Nigerians will mistake Edo North people to be Northerners because of their names and Islamic religion.

These are the consequences of being an empire, there will always be cultural overlaps from interaction from various tribes that the empire came into contact with.

This is the reason Benin is more diverse in terms of people, food, music, culture etc.

Benin is a mini Nigeria and probably the most liberal city in Nigeria, if in doubt, ask the various tribes that resides there. Tribalism is near zero.

Whatsapp discusion with a benin historian on the life of egharevba

Tao11

See how biased the yoruba historian you always quote because he bears an edo name

Samuk
Tao11

AreaFada2:

Since I can smell your historical and scientific ignorance from thousands of miles away, no need engaging you at all. Continue in your ignorance.

In Japan, 1603-1867 is called the Edo period. A period of most stable peace and stability until then. In Japan names like Sayuki, Osasu, Osamu and others are common names.

In your logic, I should be on my way to claim Kyoto, Tokyo and indeed Japan as Benin territory.

Ohhh noo...!!

I cant believe you wont engage me on such a fundamental piece of history. I cant believe it!

Everything in your claim of independence and superiority is tied to Benin, Edo, Oba, Ogiso, Igodomigodo....none of which contain your native indigeneous tongue unquely defined in 'gh', "v", 'z'.

This is critical! Foreigners found your land and civilized it. Ooni of Ife is absolutely accurate that Benin is an extension of Yorubaland.

Dispute me with counter facts.

Wetin concer me with Japan? Why are you deflecting

MetaPhysical:


Ohhh noo...!!

I cant believe you wont engage me on such a fundamental piece of history. I cant believe it!

Everything in your claim of independence and superiority is tied to Benin, Edo, Oba, Ogiso, Igodomigodo....none of which contain your native indigeneous tongue unquely defined in 'gh', "v", 'z'.

This is critical! Foreigners found your land and civilized it. Ooni of Ife is absolutely accurate that Benin is an extension of Yorubaland.

Dispute me with counter facts.

Wetin concer me with Japan? Why are you deflecting

Ife, oyo, eko, ondo, ekiti

Are extension of benin empire conter me with fact they are not

MetaPhysical:


Ohhh noo...!!

I cant believe you wont engage me on such a fundamental piece of history. I cant believe it!

Everything in your claim of independence and superiority is tied to Benin, Edo, Oba, Ogiso, Igodomigodo....none of which contain your native indigeneous tongue unquely defined in 'gh', "v", 'z'.

This is critical! Foreigners found your land and civilized it. Ooni of Ife is absolutely accurate that Benin is an extension of Yorubaland.

Dispute me with counter facts.

Wetin concer me with Japan? Why are you deflecting

Go and read my posts since 2011. Aside the ones hackers wiped out some years back during attack on Nairaland, I have educated many of your people since then. There's lots on royalty/aristocracy, anthropology, history,PHILOLOGY (not philosophy), science and medicine you can learn from.

I cannot be repeating myself to every new Jambite or people who have just recently got enough mb to browse. I have covered any question you can possibly ask already.

You are not the first to beat your chest in ignorance and hubris and ask that question.

I knew you cannot process logic enough to get the highlighted. Benin names closely resemble Japanese names, do Benin now own Japan?

Your "wetin concern me" attitude shows why many Nigerians of nowadays are very shallow intellectually. They have narrow interests.

Whereas education is universal. You see graduates who cannot hold an intelligent conversation on three topics. Those are easily brainwashed by religion and thrive on hearsay. Like Uselu means Edo belongs to Yoruba. Chai!

samuk:


You guys enjoy this free Benin history lessons. The guy can go to the other thread to educate himself on Benin/Yoruba history.

No need to populate this thread with already available information in a similar thread.

As the Benins have already shown in the other thread, the Benin/Ife history was manufactured sometimes after 1823. Before this time there are nothing about Benin/Ife relationship recorded in Benin history.

Europeans stated visiting and recording Benin history since the 1400s AD.

For the first four hundred years of European contact and recording of Benin history, there was nothing about Benin/Ife relationship written or can be found in the numerous European archives that still houses Benin history.

It was the early educated Yorubas with some historians of Benin/Yoruba heritages that stated infusing Yoruba into Benin history in other to create a united western Nigeria which eventually fell apart in 1963 after the mid west walked away due to Yoruba tribalism.

Apart from outright fabrications of evidence to support the new Benin/Ife revisionist history, the scholars went through the vast archives of Benin artworks and begin to ascribe Ife to Benin artworks that originally made references to others tribes such as the Nupe and Igala. Nupe and Igala people were replaced with Ife/Yoruba people.

Statements that were initially made about rulers of now middle belt of Nigeria were now ascribed and presented to be referring to the Ooni of Ife.

They came up with a burial site for Obas of Benin in Ife Orun Oba Ado which was excavated and no human bones found.

On the other thread, gregyboy did a very brilliant job of analysis by analysing one of the Benin artworks that TA011 provided as depicting Ife messager to Benin.

Gregyboy was able to compare the artworks with photos of modern day Nupe and Igala people and they match, the artwork bears no resemblance to photos of Ife/Yoruba people provided.

I already did a summary of this on that thread.

There were also piece of evidence like the cross the messager was wearing that can't be found anywhere in early Ife history.

If you juxtapose all these with other evidences that can still be seen in Benin and early Europeans writing of Benin Idah relationship, you will understand that the Yorubas people are trying to replace other tribes such as the Nupe and Igala in old Benin empire history with themselves.

That's not to say that Benin didn't have some sort of relationship with various different Yoruba tribes such as Owo, Akure, Ekiti, Lagos, etc.

Benin/Ife history is a fake, it was fabricated in the 19th century.

You guys shouldn't expect me to be saying much on this thread because this has already be dealt with in the other thread, anyone interested should go there and read.

You guys are spinning wheels like rats in a lab. You walk one mile and still in same spot.

You are highliting and giving supremacy to the spread of Yoruba, however much you tout Benin and Edo.

You must denounce Edo, Oba, Uselu, Ogiso, Igodomigodo as Yoruba lecxicon first and establish it is an indigeneous Oru tongue.

Next you must share your beginning in history....pre-dating contact with foreigners such as Ife, Portuguese, Britain....who were you?

AreaFada2:

Since I can smell your historical and scientific ignorance from thousands of miles away, no need engaging you at all. Continue in your ignorance.

In Japan, 1603-1867 is called the Edo period. A period of most stable peace and stability until then. In Japan names like Sayuki, Osasu, Osamu and others are common names.

In your logic, I should be on my way to claim Kyoto, Tokyo and indeed Japan as Benin territory.

Dont mind egharevba should be blame for all this
He wanted to unite benin to the former western region so he took a missing part of our history and included it to the yoruba history of Oduduwa
So you know Oduduwa hostory on his own was also fabricated to unite the yoruba people, ife became a point of the whole fabrication because at early 20c they discovered art works in ife making it a vital point and a softlaning for thier oduduwa history.... All this happened less than 100yrs ago when the British gave chances for d the locals to tell thier stories,
Before 19c no yoruba knew what was Oduduwa they were not even united as one

Dont let them get into your head......

Ekaladeran never esccaped to ife he had escaped to ughoton at early 10 AD when benin was still politically homogeneous ughoton had happen to be a village that was still very autonomous to benin ekaladeran had stayed there for years he had impregnated the daughter of the enogie and later left up north were no one knew were he had gone to( this was egharevba false attachment of Oduduwa myth) after the death of ogiso a search party went to look for Oduduwa at ughoton the enogie had told them he had left up north to an unknown place, the enogie had showed them is heir eweka who they took back to benin that's uptill told before coronation the oba always visit ughoton for ritual right but egharevba the benin historian had messed the story up just to amalgamate benins to edo

gregyboy:



Whatsapp discusion with a benin historian on the life of egharevba

Tao11

See how biased the yoruba historian you always quote because he bears an edo name

I already alluded to the fact that Egharevba work was greatly influenced by Yoruba and his Yoruba heritage in one of my replies to TA011 in the other thread.

Oba Erediawa said the same thing in his book.

The Esogban of Benin, third in position to the Oba said in his reply to the late Ooni that we in Benin thought that Egharevba wrote a fantastic story but didn't realised that the Ooni took it seriously to even reference it.

Most people in Benin don't take the Benin/Ife story seriously.

MetaPhysical:


You guys are spinning wheels like rats in a lab. You walk one mile and still in same spot.

You are highliting and giving supremacy to the spread of Yoruba, however much you tout Benin and Edo.

You must denounce Edo, Oba, Uselu, Ogiso, Igodomigodo as Yoruba lecxicon first and establish it is an indigeneous Oru tongue.

Next you must share your beginning in history....pre-dating contact with foreigners such as Ife, Portuguese, Britain....who were you?

Crazy fellow who doesnt know is history after nigeria breaks and there is no more ypruba you will find a means to your true identity

I bet your forefathers wont agree on the Oduduwa as thier history

Better go and look for your original tribe history and stop hiding a myth of a story thst was created to reunite you alm

The ignos tried it with Nri it was too late the world was already globalized

I advice you again go find your true history it could be your tribe that was the original ogene the benin spoke off that is if your tribe is not ife

AreaFada2:


Go and read my posts since 2011. Aside the ones hackers wiped out some years back during attack on Nairaland, I have educated many of your people since then. There's lots on royalt/aristocracy, anthropology, history,PHILOLOGY (not philosophy), science and medicine you can learn from. I cannot be repeating myself to every new Jambite or people who have just recently got enough mb to browse. I have covered any question you can possibly ask already. You are not the first to beat your chest in ignorance and hubris and ask that question.

I knew you cannot process logic enough to get the highlighted. Benin names closely resemble Japanese names, do Benin now own Japan?

You sit here and spin garbage and trend infront of people who do not have a deep account of your history to know where to counter your bullshyyte.

When those with knowledge and readiness to wipe your mouth clean show up you start to retreat.

I have posted and contributed so much to Yoruba that if anyone challenge me today I am ready to repeat what I have said a thousand times already in past. It is pride and confidence in truth!

If you have truthful accounts in your claims face me and begin to explain why the foundation of your kingdom is registered in Yoruba words.

Your ancestors werw Oruh, a forest people and uncivilized savages. Attempts to tame you by Ife met opposition until Ogiso Chief Clans were dispatched from Ife to set rulership on you.

If you dispute share with me any artisan skills ingeneously developed by your Oruh natives.

Do you have garments, do you have loom, do you have dyes, any embroidery skills or styling? None!

At the root of any civilized culture you must find garment and loom and dye and stylings.


Bloody forest savages awakened by foreigners and now claiming superior to their colonizers.

No be your fault nau.....people dont know enough of your dark past to tell you who you are NOT! You are not Edo or Benin....those are Yoruba words......you are ORUH. a forest specie of mankind.


Start narrating bro....

samuk:


I already alluded to the fact that Egharevba work was greatly influenced by Yoruba and his Yoruba heritage in one of my replies to TA011 in the other thread.

Oba Erediawa said the same thing in his book.

The Esogban of Benin, third in position to the Oba said in his reply to the late Ooni that we in Benin thought that Egharevba wrote a fantastic story but didn't realised that the Ooni took it seriously to even reference it.

Most people in Benin don't take the Benin/Ife story seriously.

Yea not only that the Edo people allow our history tescher teach false history of Yoruba origin from Oduduwa in thesame edo

Sometimes i wonder what our oba of benin are doing to protect our history it is looking we are the one protecting him the most
Someone needs to sit our oba down and explain this to him under his nose he allowed the myth thrive not only that he also reference the myth too that ekaladeran had escaped to ife

Am just speechless because our ancestors wont be happy with the present obas of thiz new era

MetaPhysical:


You guys are spinning wheels like rats in a lab. You walk one mile and still in same spot.

You are highliting and giving supremacy to the spread of Yoruba, however much you tout Benin and Edo.

You must denounce Edo, Oba, Uselu, Ogiso, Igodomigodo as Yoruba lecxicon first and establish it is an indigeneous Oru tongue.

Next you must share your beginning in history....pre-dating contact with foreigners such as Ife, Portuguese, Britain....who were you?

I will tell you one thing denouce the Oduduwa myth and ife myth first and tell me the true history of your people
Oduduwa was a political myth to unite all yorubas but it didnt work for the edos thats why we are constantly fighting it

If you realise it for your tribe you will still join the edo to fight it off

But dont be scared telm me the true history of your people